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Unity is Coming to the iPhone!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by HiggyB, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. simonre

    simonre

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    This is basically what I run, a G5 with Unity and then connect to the Mini using Chicken of the VNC. And then build iphone apps through xcode from the G5. The mini is basically my stereo, media player connected to a TV but doubles nicely for building iphone apps.

    From Aras' quote above, it sounds as though this set-up will work fine. VNC to the mini then connect back to the shared folder on the G5 with the project in it. Saves you having to connect a screen/keyboard to the mini - or get up!
     
  2. EducaSoft

    EducaSoft

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    Any idea if it will be possible using the cheapest of 2 versions to download something like using the www class?

    Are physics possible on this machine or is the CPU simply too weak for it ?

    And last but not least, what about video ? The iphone supports h264 , but will unity for iphone support any video stuff??



    regards,

    Bart
     
  3. podperson

    podperson

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    All I can say is fantastic work. As usual you've exceeded my expectations. I guess I'll be plunking down my cash in October.

    Now I need to go optimize Manta's UI for 480x320.

    Questions:
    How badly does the iPhone's battery life suck running a Unity game?
    Can we "throttle" our requirements to improve battery life?
    How does suspending an app work? Do we need to do any work or does game state get freeze-dried automagically?
    How much support do we get for the iPhone's native UI?
     
  4. dozycow

    dozycow

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    Seconding that question, I assume that as video is a pro only feature it will also be an iPhone pro only feature?
     
  5. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    No.

    Sure, make a frame rate display just like any other GUI controls/displays you might want to create.

    You have to wait for the final announcement as it will have the specific feature delta. We're finishing the web page updates and I'm finalizing the email announcement text, hang in there!

    Physics can be used but must be used with great care as it's a fast way to choke out your frame rates.

    We will have video support but through our player, not anything native to the phone for now (thus no H.264, just Ogg).

    Edit: I've been informed that I may be wrong on the video support front, stay tuned for updates!
     
  6. dib

    dib

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    thanks for the question 2,but
    and about question 1?

    the fps on the screen(unity editor) that we can see with this test process on iPhone screen,will be the SAME FINAL RESULTon
    iPhone gameplay?
     
  7. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    Sorry, my bad, but easy with the caps, it hurts my eyes. :D (may be why I missed it the first time :p) I don't know that they'll be 100% equivalent due to the transfer of data going back and forth and the interaction between authoring and the run-time on the phone. Perhaps Joachim or Aras or someone on dev can offer more specific insight.
     
  8. aaronsullivan

    aaronsullivan

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    It would be VERY difficult to try and get the game to play exactly the same as it would on the hardware, in my estimation. You're talking about making 100's of graphics cards and computer combinations simulate the exact same performance as one other.

    Especially if it's supposed to happen in some meaningful way (so you could optimize correctly.)

    On the other hand, seems like UT is in the impressive and surprising features business, so... I won't write it completely off. ;)
     
  9. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    I would expect it's the same for the iPhone as it is for everything else...the editor is the editor, so if you want to see native web player/Mac/Windows/iPhone/Wii performance you make a build and run that.

    --Eric
     
  10. drag0nsphere

    drag0nsphere

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    Will the iphone be able to handle a 200 tris ragdoll?
    *fingers crossed*
     
  11. ezone

    ezone

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    First off, congrats Unity Team you guys are leading the way again, and we are super excited about being able to create 3D games for the iPhone! Your timing is perfect too. We've currently got 10+ simple novelty apps in the store, and based on their success we are now making iPhone apps exclusively. I had just started thinking about learning OpenGL/Objective-C so we could make some more involved games, but now I can avoid that painful exercise and stick to the Unity editor, sweet. The most exciting thing is that with Unity iPhone support we'll have everything we need to make top money earners like SMB, Crash Nitro, Koi Pond, which could all be authored in Unity. The potential is amazing. Can't wait!

    A few questions:

    1. Is the 7000 poly limit a guideline to optimize FPS, or is that a finite limit that will cause an error if we exceed?

    2. Is fog enabled? (so we can increase culling to reduce polys on-screen)

    3. Is ragdoll physics out of the question?

    I know these questions will be answered once iPhone support is officially released, but we are hoping to get as much done on our game before the 22nd so we can hit the ground running!
     
  12. dib

    dib

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    I think that everyone here that really want to port
    a 3D game(not some application) to iphone with the
    unity editor,FIRST wants to know the final frame rate run-time on the iphone.

    how?
    I don´t know!

    I'm still waiting for a response.
     
  13. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    It's been stated already:

    - Develop and test in Unity (not final frame rate)
    - Produce final iPhone build, test on iPhone or iPod Touch (final frame rate)

    Done. If you want to know your final frame rate then all you do is test on the device with an actual build, not through Unity while authoring the project. Seems simple to me! :)

    Edit: and to be clear, the second step above is something you do before submitting your content for distribution through the AppStore or iTunes. Part of being an iPhone developer is that you can manually "distribute" apps and move builds onto specific phones/devices for testing. So I am _not_ saying you build and distribute to find your frame rate, both of the above are done _before_ final distribution.
     
  14. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    Guideline for performance AFAIK.

    Defer to Joachim/Aras/engineering for an answer (if I don't write something I'm sure I'll get another "hey you forgot one of my questions!" prompts! :p )

    I don't believe so, but use it with care as anything physics related is going to be a bit costly in terms of CPU demand and therefore performance.
     
  15. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    Off topic: Could you please not underline stuff which isn't a link?
    On topic: Very important question which I haven't seen answered: If you're releasing on the day of unite, will you then accept credit cards at the event? :wink:
     
  16. HiggyB

    HiggyB

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    Sure, you'll be able to open your laptop and navigate to our online store and purchase all you like. :)
     
  17. Jessy

    Jessy

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    Considering a couple technical questions have been answered, I'll ask this, in hopes that we can know before Unite 2008:

    I have seen a few apps that allow people to use the music on their iPhone / iPod touch. Will we be able to do that with Unity? If so, will it require the Pro license?
     
  18. Scrat

    Scrat

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    I thought it was impossible to access music library: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-9981871-27.html

    Maybe it has changed?

    Anyway I'm really happy about the prices. It's very fair. And it's really awesome that you allow us to publish as many titles as we want. You guys are great! :D
    Can't wait to buy the license on October, 22!
     
  19. podperson

    podperson

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    Don't confuse outliers with medians.

    There's one crossword puzzle game that makes $6000/day. There's a ton that make nothing.
     
  20. Jessy

    Jessy

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    Yes, but how many of them are interactive 3D? The novelty will surely wear off, but it's still going to be easy for awhile, to make something that few others are, until big companies see the money-making potential. At least afterwards there will be steady jobs available using Unity. :wink:
     
  21. dingosmoov

    dingosmoov

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    I agree. Also, small companies/individuals can move a lot faster than larger companies.

    And most of us here are surrounded by technology all the time. And something that seems "old hat" to us, is still new to a lot of people.

    A friend of mine last night called me last night describing how his in-laws both just got their first cell phones ever. You guessed it they both got iPhones.

    It will still be a robust market for at least a year.

    Apple is already at 12 million phones sold(that number may double that in iPod Touch). So the market is growing steadily and each person that buys an iPhone or iPod Touch is a new potential customer.

    Just regarding the 12 million iPhones, there are roughly 250 million phones just in the U.S. market alone. Apple is spending millions to capture some of that market.

    In short the market will be viable for a while and will continue to grow. There's plenty of room to grow.
     
  22. Jessy

    Jessy

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    Does anybody know where to get figures on how many iPod touches got shipped to college students this summer, with the buy-a-Mac-and-get-an-iPod-for-free deal? When that was announced, I got pretty excited, knowing about the development about which this topic was created, and how college students are sure to be the ones gobbling up a lot of the 3D game apps.
     
  23. teatime

    teatime

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    I hope you're not really suggesting people churn out shovelware to recoup the price of the license, Jessy. That's not fair to the consumer and it would certainly be detrimental to iPhone developers in the long run.
     
  24. Jessy

    Jessy

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    What a negative way to take what I've said :?. To think that one of us can't make something awesome in a short amount of time, and have it be worth $0.99 - $1.99 to people, is just being unimaginative.

    (at least your name is a Discworld reference 8))
     
  25. dingosmoov

    dingosmoov

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    I hope this wasn't asked, sorry if repeating:

    Will particles work for Unity3D for iPhone?
     
  26. dib

    dib

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    UT

    the second worst thing you could have done in this life was erase my opinion!
    just here,can you do this in all the other engines/game engines rewiews fóruns? big mistake!

    the first was make a SLOW engine for a lot of nazi NOOBS most with the cheapest license > "Jessy"!!!

    and just a lot of crap slow games! in showcase and comercial games(ALL CRAP!)

    open your eyes NOOBS!
    NO TRIAL TO TEST :!:
     
  27. aaronsullivan

    aaronsullivan

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  28. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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    Nobody erased anything, they were moved. You've tested the patience of everyone by not really reading and appreciating the replies and a certain section of rant-like material was migrated out of this thread. If you can post and reply in a reasonable manner that doesn't involve name calling (you previously quoted me warning of name calling in relation to someone else's post, that warning now applies to you) then you're welcome to stick around and offer thoughts. If instead you want to continue in a confrontational manner then you will no longer be welcome here on the forums.

    Calling Jessy a nazi noob has now used all warnings and leeway I'm ever going to give you. My next step will be to ban you altogether and I really don't want to do that. We appreciate all points of view, please just bring yours to the table in a friendly and constructive format.

    Note that anyone that replies in turn will get little leeway from me as well so please don't escalate things. Let's bring it back down a notch, talk about our cool software and pending release of iPhone publishing support.

    </warning>

    Oh, and when we've released the product we'll be making a trial version available for folks to test. That's already been stated before so please keep an eye on all the posts for that sort of information, thanks! :)
     
  29. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Particles are just planes, so yep they'll work. Keep in mind the 7000 polygon guideline...each particle is 2 polygons, so it would be pretty easy to blow the polygon budget with particles if you're not careful.

    --Eric
     
  30. Ricko

    Ricko

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    Edit: Eric you beat me to it. I was typing too long while you answered first. :)

    I’m speculating (Unity Devs feel free to correct me) but I’m pretty sure some form of particles should be possible. Just like any rendering technique though you need to be careful what resources you use.

    For example if Unity is using a standard billboard rendering technique for each particle then that is a quad polygon with a texture applied. If I recall OpenGL ES doesn’t support quad primitives meaning each quad is actually two triangles. So each particle (worst case) is two triangles used, out of the rule of thumb ~7,000 triangles maximum when shooting for an acceptable frame rate. That will add up fast when particles are auto-generated in a large number every second so I expect going with less particles will be best.

    That said, the iPhone supports OpenGL ES 1.1, which also has a mode for drawing particles with a single point/vertex instead of an entire polygon. I’m not sure if that feature means it is a driver feature that still gets converted to polys or if it is truly just a vertex used in hardware. If the latter, it would be great if Unity is supporting that with their particles since it would use much less of the poly budget.

    Just like anything else in game development there are many ways to do things. If you need more voluminous (or perceived higher number of) particles than you can afford with your poly/vertex budget, maybe you can make a texture image that has multiple particles on it at varying sizes then texture multiple particles onto each poly (or vertex). I think Forrest did something like that with one of his cool particle demos last year.

    Ricko
     
  31. dingosmoov

    dingosmoov

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    @Eric5h5 and @Ricko

    Thanks guys, that answered my question and then some. Much appreciation.
     
  32. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    You had a lot more detail though. ;) I don't know of any graphics hardware that uses quads, so even though normal OpenGL supports quads, that's not what's actually used when rendering on any platform (also I don't think Direct3D does quads). So a particle is necessarily 2 polygons. Although, come to think of it, there's nothing stopping anyone making a particle rendering system that uses single triangles instead, but obviously you'd have some texturing limitations in that case. Also a good question about the single vertex thing.

    Back on the concept of "shovelware": I made this in 3 days, and even half a year later it still gets 100-150 downloads/day...I meant for it to take 1 day, but the control system was more challenging than I thought so I ended up rewriting it several times until I got something I was happy with. (And I got a request a few weeks ago from the Japanese mag Mac Fan to include it on a cover DVD for the Sept. 29 issue. :) ) It's free, but if there was an App Store for widgets, I think it's high enough quality to be worth $.99 if you like that sort of thing (although I'd be more inclined to charge $.49 if that was possible), and would probably end up making a few hundred $.

    --Eric
     
  33. bronxbomber92

    bronxbomber92

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    By the way guys,

    There is a great list of performance tips in the iPhone OS Programming Guide from Apple. They may not all apply, but some sure do :).
     
  34. dib

    dib

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    PLEASE,where?
     
  35. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Aaron already gave you the link.

    --Eric
     
  36. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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    To help make it perfectly clear where they went (I'm quoting the first post immediately after you claimed deletion):

     
  37. dib

    dib

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    :roll:
     
  38. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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    But the point stands, that eventually there will be one whether it's on day one or not. Nothing that I said is contradictory, it may not be available right off the bat, when it's out we'll then set about ensuring a trial is available on request. As such you'll be able to use it to evaluate performance of our tool against your particular content ideas and that's the specific goal you're after.

    Seriously, reel it in a bit across the board, there is no need to be so combative.
     
  39. dib

    dib

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    my particular content ideas?lol
    any game developer in the world idea> "performance".

    JESUS.
     
  40. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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    Yes, your content ideas. Everyone has a different game in mind, not all of them are well suited for all devices/platforms. If your idea is a piece of content with dozens of walking characters then that will offer something very different that a simpler tile shuffling sort of game. It's impossible to offer frame rate estimates for all content types as it depends so heavily on what it is you want to do, thus the notion of "your content ideas".

    Go for it dude, one more time...
     
  41. dib

    dib

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    JESUS.
     
  42. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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  43. blacksp1der

    blacksp1der

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    thanks.
     
  44. HiggyB

    HiggyB

    Unity Product Evangelist

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    And I'm really bummed to have had to do it. Let's all just move on and get back to talking about Unity and the iPhone.

    Edit: and hey, a belated welcome to the forums for being a long time lurker and a first time poster!
     
  45. Thomas-Lund

    Thomas-Lund

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    Well - I know you guys are going to announce it soon. But here goes my worry and semi-question

    I have been raking my brain about what could be the difference between the 2 editions, and I cannot see what you can possibly take out and make pro only (except some really scary things)

    I mean there is no shader stuff on the iPhone, so that cannot be used as a differentiator. Almost everything on the existing indie vs. pro list cannot be applied.

    Yes you have a splash screen - thats OK.

    So the only thing I could come up with is lack of touch and accelerator support - and that made me semi scared and made me want to post this.

    Can you dwelve just a little over your thoughts on this without having to post the entire list?

    Are you limiting access to the iPhone unique control mechanisms or not?

    Thanks!
     
  46. Yann

    Yann

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    Er... :roll: hello, and a nice day to everybody ! Tom, unless this has been already discussed, could you please tell us about movie textures in the iPhone version ? will Unity iPhone player be able to display OGG movies like it does on the Mac ?
     
  47. Martin-Schultz

    Martin-Schultz

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    Hehe, glad you transported the discussion we had to here, Thomas - I still scare the same as you... :)
     
  48. Samantha

    Samantha

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    Both touchscreen and accelerometer support will be included in both versions. Without these, your players would have no way to interact with your game!
     
  49. Martin-Schultz

    Martin-Schultz

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    Fantastic news!!!

    Edit: If you leave then the network stuff out for the indy version as trade, I'm totally fine with it. :)
     
  50. Thomas-Lund

    Thomas-Lund

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    Great stuff

    You could have players interact through UI buttons only.

    Still leaves me wondering what the difference is between the 2 versions. Anyways - will leave that your announcement.