Unity is Coming to the iPhone!

Let start with saying that I find the lack of WWWclass in the indie deployment a big mistake too.

But...

The development of this system has possibly cost a lot of $$$ and any company must earn more then it spends (otherwise, little chances for unity 3.0)

Also, being a professional developer (okok, maybe not yet on unity but at least on other software platforms) if I would make games/apps for iphone, I would not be happy if my game/app would be featured inbetween 100 other rubish games created by 10yo boys and girls.
It ruins your exposure and sales and isn't necessary the best publicity for unity also.

So that why I don't mind that barrier. $399 to play with it and make nice stuff allready , then the higher price for advanced functions.

I do wonder what kind of games will be published quite soon after oct22, since betatesters sure will have to take advantage of their advance in development being on the beta.

Personally I wonder if a 3D game will make enough money to pay for itself, but if you don't test it you'll never know it



1 technical question @ Tom, Joachim, Arras, ....
Can an Iphone application save any bit of information onto the phone/ipod touch ?
I mean like, can I save a local file with some strings of data on it (like a local hiscore list) ?
Is that on both indie and advanced ?



Thanks 4 answer,

Bart

 

That's an interesting idea, Jashan, but I think it only works if the "mask" is applied when the Play button is pressed. Otherwise, you don't get to test your game with the unique control and appropriate graphics emulation. However, I think this is already taken care of, through scripting:

* Create a scene, which will serve as the place to generate platform-dependent versions of itself.
* Create an empty object, which will serve as the platform-dependent asset loader.
* Script an enumeration that includes your target platforms, and attach it to that object.
* Create an empty object, which will serve as a prefab for your entire platform-dependent build.
* Attach assets to children of this second game object, based on the enumeration setting (with a script attached to the first object).
* Hit play, and drag the entire game scene, now encapsulated in the second empty game object, onto a prefab.
* Change the enumeration setting, and drag onto another prefab. Do this for each target platform.
* Create scenes that include only these whole-scene prefabs, for each target platform.
* Include only the appropriate scenes in the build. (This could get tedious if you have a lot of scenes, but this too can be scripted with Unity Pro, as of version 2.1, right?)

Because you can't save scene settings while the game is running in the editor, I have gotten very used to dragging to modify prefabs based on scripted actions (it allows for more automated and even artistic ways of working). Depending on your game, it could be faster to start with a scene from another platform's version of the game, and edit it, by dragging in different assets, instead of automating the process, though.

 

I'd really like to know this as well. If local file access was available in indie, you could first release a game with local highscore, see if it has success and then use the income from that release to buy pro and advanced to enable network support.

 

Was this meant as a joke?

You didn't meant adding an online highscorelist if a game is a success seriously, right? This is starting getting ridiculous before it even begins. We're not living in the medieval anymore. Hello, it's the last quarter of 2008 and the ARPA has done it's work since quite a couple of years now.

Regarding network capabilities i can understand that multiplayer functionality is a Pro only feature, this makes sense but as i've written before communication with some sort of php/sql in the background is part of almost every game since quite some time and it has nothing to do with if it's done by an Indie or Pro. This is more like if the left mouse button would be allowed in Indie but the right one is a Pro only feature whilst two button mice have been around since years.

Sorry that i have to say it this clear but this sounds like an obvious artificial border for maximizing profit whilst ignoring the reality and practice for casual games, no matter if they are done by Indies or Pros. You should change this!

 

No I meant adding network support. This should obviously include online high-scores, but I'm not saying networking limited to that use :wink:

All I am saying is that local highscores would be acceptable when you think of future possibilities if the game is a success.

Sidenote: A funky side-effect of the "don't mix indie and advanced licenses" rule could be that collaboration projects for the iPhone would be split right down the middle between successful unity iPhone developers and newcommers. Would be interesting to see what could be the effect of this if it happens.

 

I contract my art work and was wondering if its possible to somehow get the built development copy of an application to a remote person's iphone/touch? Ideally I'd like for the artist to see the work on the device. Any one know?

If not, I guess I can publish it to the web and let him see it that way.

Thanks,

 

I'm very, very unhappy too that the WWW class is not part of the indy version. My game won' work anymore without the www class as the highscore list is an essential part of the game. Not happy with that.

 

The only thing that makes me more unhappy is UT being a company in EU... This means I have to pay an extra 25% on the price of their products because I live in EU... Any chance of moving the company to the US HiggyB?

 

Thanks UT, this is awesome! Can't wait for the release, even though it is going to make a serious dent in our budget (upgrade to Pro, iPhone Advanced, get iPhones or Touch...).

Oh well, to infinity and beyond, right?

 

The fact that there is an indie version at all is a pleasant surprise, as is the lack of per-title licensing. I see the www classes on iPhone as analogous to video support in Pro - you can master the tool and make a perfectly good game without it, but there are more ways to make money if you have it.

I don't think it's "like if the left mouse button would be allowed in Indie but the right one is a Pro only feature", but it's probably true that apps with www support will make more money from the appstore, which seems to me the very point of leaving it out of Indie. Lack of highscores and so forth may change the nature of certain games, but UT isn't removing a feature you don't already have; it's not like your webgames are gonna stop working. Use indie iphone, make a crippled (if you have to see it that way), high-scoreless version and post it for free or cheap, use that to promote the online version of your game. I'm thinking most iPhone users also have computers. Upgrade to Pro when the additional cost is justified. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

At the game conference last month I watched the Hero engine demo for a while, an impressive, easy to use IDE similar (IMO) to Unity, and asked the price - after tracking down the sales manager, he says "How much you got?". I pretended (unconvincingly), to have a lot, and he finally goes "worldwide license is 950. Plus support.". He meant, my friends, not one thousand, not one hundred thousand, but ONE MILLION DOLLARS. Plus another 200k for support. Even more pernicious are the per-title licensing or revenue percentage schemes.

A fair price is what the market will bear, and considering the enormous value of the tools they're providing, UT could probably charge a lot more across the board. They've done more than any company I know of to empower the masses to make games, not just corporate behemoths - let's keep some perspective.

 

I wholeheartedly agree! And compare advanced cost to the cost of a single plugin for Maya in some cases, and Unity Pro or Advanced is a steal.

Also this is a professional tool. The prices are still low. I understand price sensitivity, I understand wanting stuff cheaper. But honestly, it is very reasonable. Also when you consider no additional royalties.

Even the lack of www, would I like it?...Yes.

Will lack of www stop me from reaching my goal?...No way!

And after making enough money and then purchase advanced it will not make a difference.

 

Holy crap, that list of restrictions is IT????
Your joking me??
So I can still write my custom plugins in Pro, compile for iPhone basic and they will work???

So I just can't use streaming assets and I can't use the native networking components that are in Unity Pro, but beyond that, the sky is the limit?

I must be dreaming, someone pinch me.

 

i am missing something? cause i don't find any official demo for iphone. Truly, the "extra price" was shocking but still is reasonable, yet to buy it without see a demo sound too risky (even if was for less that $100).

 

you can download the regular demo. Don't need an iPhone specific demo to understand the product.

 

.. nm

 

Actually, UT being a company in EU is pretty cool for people living in the EU. If you have a business, you can get a VAT-number, and if you have a VAT-number (and some income), you can basically forget about the 25% because your income will usually generate more VAT than your spending, which means that you don't pay the 25%.

If UT was US based, you wouldn't have that option. I don't know the exact range of VAT in the US, it's certainly less than 25%, but still it's significant ... and AFAIK, there's no way to drop that at all.

 

There is no VAT in the U.S. There's sales tax, which varies from state to state, but 6% is probably average. However, this is only enforced for retail sales. You're supposed to report mail-order and online sales on your state income tax form, but how many people do you think are completely honest about doing this? Plus for a few states it really is 0%.

--Eric

 

Im not sure, i wish to known the performance in a real application and the actual demos wasn't create thinking in the iphone limitation (and i bet they will not run because this fact).

ps :im u3d pro user.

 

could anyone hazard a guess as to how many layers of audio will run simultaneously w/out hiccups in an otherwise computationally lightweight scene on the iphone? the only unity game i've seen that does what i'm thinking of is jessy's cosmorama, and that gets a little choppy on a high-end macbook after six or seven layers.

 

Thanks for clearing that up! So I guess best would be selling from one of those states where sales tax really is 0%. That sounds cool ;-)

 

Of course, there are plenty of taxes on other things so it's not like we get to keep all our money...sadly...when we could be spending it on Unity iPhone Advanced and other more important matters.

--Eric

 

Yes, I'd like it too..

About online score, is it really so important?
A good game will not sell because a online score is missing?
A bad game will sell because it has a online score?

 

Will the iPhone version be able to use normal maps and spec?

I'm just curious about the shader limitations.

 

I think the scheme is pretty fair, personally. If there wasn't something missing that hurt a bit, then it wouldn't make sense to be an indie price, right?

I will say, however, that the high score list thing seems to be a hot point for complaints about iPhone games. Especially anything arcade-like. It's something gamers are expecting, now.

As far as shaders, just pretend there aren't any. Start there.

 

You've actually got my Cosmorama method backwards, but thanks for playing! (A revamped iPhone version is coming asap.)

In order to keep everything in sync, I actually started 15 separate streams of stereo audio at the beginning, and then removed them when they were no longer necessary. Mixing music in Unity, where there are no effects yet (like compression, limiting, etc.) is not something I would want to do. So I made one full mix, and 14 other ones with successive removal of tracks, all with the same length. The reason the audio might suffer more later in the game is not a problem with audio layers, but rather, the fact that more is happening graphically.

Check out this thread for my analysis of what is going on in terms of "choppiness".

 

US sales tax is also avoidable in the same way as VAT as per your description. If you're actually a business that charges sales tax, you don't need to pay it.

 

I have loads of questions I want to ask about iPhone hardware, but there seems very little information about on the net, which is really bad of Apple, what are they afraid of?

Congratulations Unity for what looks likely to be a fantastic successful iPhone add on. I can't wait to see all this in action later this month.

 

@aaronsullivan
Question is if the hurting makes sense or not and in this case it doesn't.

Regarding shaders i've read that the successor of the gfx chip is already able to, so it's only a matter of time till you will see them.

 

Just to give you an idea, I developed a game called Netrix with Unity (http://www.darkmoon-studios.com/index.html?section=netrix-overview), which was supposed to be a Network version of Tetris. It supported creating rooms were you could play against other people. And I thought it was "enough" to get people playing the game, I was getting a constant flow of people playing the game. Then I released a new version that supported online scores for the single player mode, and the number of people playing it just went sky high.

At the moment I have around 250-350 people playing every day. And that boost was from online scores.

So in order to answer your question, a online score doesn't make a good game, but will turn a good game into a great one, since people have the extra point off not only topping themselves, but topping everyone else.

In my opinion its not a matter of price, I understand it is expensive, I was thinking of getting unity pro w/ asset + iphone basic + iphone + apple membership, I wasn't really counting on getting iphone advanced. I'll probably still do this, since paying the extra isn't an option for me right now. I'm just disappointed because WWW isn't available, it would help not only for things like an online score but other things like letting the players know there is a newer version of the game (which I also use in the Netrix widget). I sincerely hope that UT reconsiders this, the streaming of assets I agree that it should be an advanced version only, but not the "web access".

Regards,
Afonso

 

ipete2:

Apple probably wants to be able to change specs whenever it feels fit (the joy of building a phone with a real OS).

Apple's documentation is really very good:

http://developer.apple.com/iphone

They just don't seem to want to talk about hardware specifics.

 

@nafonso
Interesting data, thanks for sharing

 

I am curious if we are able to access much of the iphone's hardware capabilities: GPS support being one, the Camera another.

 

By "dynamic lighting", does that include Point Light, Spotlight, and Directional Light?

Sorry for the noob question, I'm a novice when it comes to lighting!

 

Yes

 

Since Unity will be creating an xCode project, it should be possible to create the web scoring in xCode right?

People are doing that now with only CoaCoa right? So sending a few variables to a webserver shouldn't be to hard to do in just regular code, after Unity has created the xCode project.

Am I thinking about that correctly?

 

From what I have heard, you will be able to tweak a few things in xcode, but most of it will be compiled DLL's and such and Unity is not releasing their source code.

 

Congrats to Unity Technologies for the great works, buying Unity iPhone day one.

A couple of questions:

1) what appens when the app quits? Is the state of the app automatically saven? Can you script what the app has to do?

2) Does Unity compress the texture in PVRTC format?

3) I suppose the new Occlusion Culling feature is using the PowerVR hardware, right?

 

Any idea what the cost will be in Euros / GBP? or is it simply a matter of doing a currency conversion. I only ask as some companies (I'm looking at you Adobe!), match their $USD price to the GBP one...

Cheers, and good work!

 

Adobe has the wrost currency conversion rate I ever seen.. Adobe, to get euros from usd you should divide by 1.36, not multiply!
Or each box get a first class plane seat?

 

All iphone/ipod apps are expected to store and resume the state of the app or the game, when the app is quit and re-launched. This could be because of device sleep or a phone call or just quitting the app. Only one app is allowed to run at once, no minimized or background apps. The iPhone Human Interface Guidelines and Developer Guide both detail this. And you see virtually all iphone apps and games implement this behavior. To not implement this behavior is really substandard.

From this I would guess that Unity iphone indie will allow writing of a preferences file, at least, that can be used to restore the game state upon launch. I doubt the game state will automatically saved for you.

But I shouldn't guess at Unity scripting APIs that are not yet released. Whatever they come up with I am confident it will make sense and be usable while also encouraging the upgrade path to Pro :wink:

 

Honestly I hadn't thought of that.
For non-network games this would need to be in the Unity options to autosave on suspend. For networking games probably not needed. I wonder how Unity handles this.

 

Will we have to build special code into our iphone programs or does unity3d handle this automatically?

 

I actually have another quite important question.

It looks like the new way to promote a game is to give away a LITE version on the iphone for free and then also having a for-pay version with added features/levels.

I allready tried some of these programs and some have a button which can lead the customer directly from within the free version of the game to the appstore page of the non-free game.

Can unity do that too? Indie? Advanced ?

 

I don't know how how Unity will handle it, however there is a URL service scheme that is documented in the Apple iphone developer docs, whereby one app can launch another, send parameters, etc. I am sure that is how what you describe is done. So if Unity can launch URLs at the OS level then I bet it can be done.

 

Then I change my question into

Does unity support somehow this URL service scheme ?

 

@educasoft: here is another guess. In Unity javascript it would simply be like

Code (csharp):

1. function OnGUI()
2. {
3.   //...
4.   if(upsellButton)
5.   {  Application.openURL("appstore://custom_url_for_app_store?my_non_free_application");
6.   }
7. }
8.  

You see it's just a matter of figuring out what the custom url scheme for the app store is.
See iphone developer documentation
iPhone OS Programming Guide > The Application Environment >
Application Configuration > Custom URL Schemes.
Then search the iphone docs or google for "app store custom url scheme".
Hope this helps. It's a good idea - I am sure I will be trying to implement this as well.

 

If unity3d 4 iphone will support Application.openURL

 

Search back, I mentioned that at first we won't have a trial available (like on day 1), but we will of course have evaluation builds available after that. In all likelihood they'll be handed out like Pro trials, you'll have to write us and request it.

In our first release neither of those will be available.

For the first release (sense a theme? ) there will be very limited options at your disposal in this regard. We do hope to release an update that will expose the ability for you to add/write your own Objective-C (that you add to the XCode project) and then call that code from within your Unity app. This is essentially offering plugin support, but they're plugins written in Objective-C instead of C/C++.

Don't use a straight currency conversion, instead you should benchmark against our Dollar/Euro/Yen prices for other Unity licenses. For example:

Unity Indie: $199 / €149
Unity iPhone Publishing Basic: $399

Doing the extrapolation, the iPhone license is 2x the cost and therefore you can expect something in the range of €300. We'll soon have a full list of prices in all currencies available. Don't take the above as final in any way, instead use it (and the technique) as a rough guideline for now.

For what? State saving? AFAIK that's something you'll need to write off the start.


As to the questions about linking straight to an entry in the AppStore (like a full-featured version you have to pay for), I don't know. I'll defer to Joachim or someone else on that. I do think it's a _very_ good idea to do that. As an iPhone owner and one who rushed out and bought a small collection of crappy games, I wished more of them offered a chance to demo their game for free. In all those cases the game's weaknesses generally stood out rather quick and in a level or two I'd get enough of an idea to make the purchase decision (or not).

 

HiggyB, should we be able to continue just building our projects in the current build of Unity3D and then we should be able to just plug in a license number and have another build item in the menu for the iPhone. Just want to make sure that I can continue building stuff without having to worry about the new build of unity requiring me to rebuild a scene or reimport animations or anything like that.