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Unity going public?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Murgilod, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Teila

    Teila

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    Explains why they are pulling back on Unite in the U.S. Sad. We had looked forward to going. We talked to an evangelist on Saturday at the Unity Developer Day and were told no US Unite and no commitment in the future. :(

    Going public means shareholders will not like all the money spent for those great cons.

    NYC day was great, a bit cramped in the Microsoft offices but talks were exceptional and lots of good people. Just miss all my international friends.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  2. GameDevCouple_I

    GameDevCouple_I

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    I guess the second act will be to implement the "make mmo with hats", because who doesnt love having hat purchases thrust in your face?
     
  3. tiggus

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    For awhile now they have been publicizing their services as where they see their growth and I think that will remain the same whether they are public or not. The question is can they make those services actually attractive enough to use and pay for on a large scale(ie. if their new networking platform is like unet they are in trouble but on the other hand it could be amazing and be a big revenue generator).
     
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  4. chingwa

    chingwa

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  5. angrypenguin

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    Surely those conventions are profitable, which would mean shareholders would want them..?

    I'd have thought that for this DropBox, Google Drive or OneDrive would be clear options?

    Note that the only reason I'm not just bangin' the "use version control" drum is that you've said you're an artist. I do genuinely think that'd still be the best way forward for you, but when it comes to art (or other large binary assets) there's room for debate there.

    But on my teams, artists use version control. ;)

    With regard to Unity's future, I feel that Collab is somewhat of an indicator. That's a solution for small teams who aren't yet using version control, and where the selling point is ease of use. It's surely not a service aimed at large or established studios. That's not a complaint, by the way. It indicates to me that they understood that particular market segment and their needs, and it looks to me like the solution is mutually beneficial.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  6. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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  7. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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  8. APSchmidt

    APSchmidt

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    I like to read comforting posts like yours but what makes you think that Unity going public won't change anything for us?
     
  9. Teila

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    You would think so, but who knows. It also could be because of the difficulty some are having getting into the country. Oh well, will have to save for a trip to Europe. :)
     
  10. Kiwasi

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    Because Facebook going public didn't change anything for Facebook users. Google going public didn't change anything for Google users. My power company going public didn't change anything for me as a customer. I work for a public company, and my day job is just the same as it would be for a private company.

    Virtually every company you interact with on a regular frequency is public. From your local supermarket to your computer hardware manufacturer. And they all function just fine.

    If literally millions of other companies can go public and balance the needs of shareholders and customers, there is no reason to assume that Unity can't do the same as well.
     
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  11. Kiwasi

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    It wouldn't surprise me if it is at least partially politically motivated. Unity got burnt with visas and the US immigration situation last year. Not being able to get international participants into the country does make the country far less desirable for an international conference.
     
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  12. Murgilod

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    ?????

    Facebook has been on a massive downward decline in data safety because it turns out that selling data and ad space is an incredibly lucrative business. Facebook has absolutely seen the effects of having to report to investors, and so has Google.
     
  13. angrypenguin

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    I can't disagree that they handle user data questionably, but I also haven't seen any evidence to suggest that this has ever changed. If they were like that from the start then it's not a result of investors.
     
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  14. Murgilod

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    Investors mean that the returns have to be continuous and ever increasing. It leads to a cultural shift that focuses on the untenable concept of infinite growth and the steps that have to be taken to achieve the illusion of that. It is a long-running issue, especially in tech circles.
     
  15. angrypenguin

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    What has that got to do, specifically, with pinning "a massive downward decline in data safety" on investors? I don't disagree with either of the things you are saying. I simply don't see causation running in the direction you describe.
     
  16. Murgilod

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    Because it turns out that data safety:
    1. Is expensive
    2. Gets in the way of data marketability
    3. Does not align with the core concepts that govern a massive part of Facebook's revenue stream
    Because of all that, it turns out that if you want increasing profits forever, the first thing you do is stop focusing there. You start going "well, it doesn't really matter who we sell data to, so let's not do due diligence." Facebook has been running into issue after issue and a huge part of them all started after going public, which everyone said would happen.
     
  17. Kiwasi

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    You seem to be painting the original private owners as angels. Most of them are also ruthless profit seekers.

    It doesn't make a difference if a business is owned by three mates or a hundred super funds. The drive for increasing ROI is always there.
     
  18. Murgilod

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    If you are motivated by making profit to appease shareholders it absolutely changes the game.
     
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  19. Billy4184

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    It also matters if the business is your lifeblood, or one element in your 'diversified portfolio'.
     
  20. angrypenguin

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    Still none of this supports the causality you're claiming. You're assuming that they cared in the first place, where I'm not convinced (and it wasn't nearly as big a deal back then as it is now). If exploiting data is a "massive part of Facebook's revenue stream" then why would they wait for shareholder pressure to do that? And yeah, I'd expect that some issues came up in the nearly half of its lifetime that has happened since Facebook's IPO.

    It sounds like Unity are turning a pretty good profit by doing stuff that's almost always mutually beneficial. Basically, I'm not sure that turning exploitative would turn out especially well for them even in the short term.
     
  21. Murgilod

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    You're acting like I'm saying Facebook was good before when I'm saying Facebook is dramatically worse than it was before and a huge part of that is because they are now in a situation where they are accountable to shareholders above all else.

    Also, there's nothing "mutually beneficial" about removing things like the ability to buy a license.
     
  22. SmartMediaNL

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    I wish Microsoft would have bought Unity but they thought buying mine craft was a better idea.
     
  23. Murgilod

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    Why do you wish this?
     
  24. SmartMediaNL

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    Because when they took over Xamarin and Github both got more free tiers for developers.
    Not to mention their investment in open source. MS is a very different company now then it used to be.
     
  25. Murgilod

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    Why does this have to involve the company being bought by Microsoft?
     
  26. SmartMediaNL

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    Well of course i am not sure but i hope that Unity will stay the same Aldo logically all the services will be moved to the Asure platform i would assume. At least my feeling says that if Microsoft would buy Unity it would be better then if Facebook or shareholders would take over (or less bad). Anyway its a feeling. I might be wrong. I have been wrong many times before.
     
  27. angrypenguin

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    For the same reason that Facebook getting worse has to involve shareholders. ;)
     
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  28. Murgilod

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    I'm not sure you're making the point you think you are.
     
  29. Kiwasi

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    Look. Unity can do things you don't like without being public.

    Profit and growth motivate both private and public companies. None of the private business owners are in this for love.
     
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  30. AcidArrow

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    Yes. The implication is that now they can do even more things I don't like.

    All businesses are profit oriented, but there may be other goals. As a company gets bigger the balance shifts until it's only profit oriented.

    Or... whatever.
     
  31. snacktime

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    Creation and destruction is how capitalism works, it's how any system works really. In business you are either moving forward or backwards, there is no standing still or 'sustainable'. Competition ensures if you do that you die.

    Infinite growth isn't the goal never was. Growth is simply the best way to ensure what longevity is possible. It produces the best results even though eventually every company is eclipsed.

    Being public doesn't put any more emphasis on growth, that's there for every business.

    Public does mean you care about what the market thinks. That's just part of the deal. If your stock tanks you can lose the ability to borrow from anyone. But founders can structure IPO's all sorts of ways, including retaining full control. So you have some companies where nobody has majority control, and others where a single person does. Hugely different situations that leads to very different decision making. A good number of tech companies that have gone public the founders retain full control, with the CEO beholden primarily to them as the majority shareholders.
     
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  32. Murgilod

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    You just followed up a statement about how infinite growth isn't the goal by saying that it happens anyway. I never said it was the goal, I said it's the attitude that occurs. You do not need unsustainable growth to sustain a business.
     
  33. Cromfeli

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  34. hippocoder

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    It doesn't work, as the roman empire proves :) Because eventually something gets too big and you need to divide it up because without autonomy, you don't have freedom to make changes or even improvements without first going through a whole bunch of red tape.

    Eventually people get tired of that. Myspace was good once, apparently. In any case, MS learned a few years ago that tying absolutely everything to one platform was doomed, and resisting linux was doomed, so they've been slowly integrating both and realising it's not actually killing their profits.
     
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  35. angrypenguin

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    Did they? In one case they specified infinite growth, and in the other case they did not. Infinite growth of anything is obviously unsustainable, as you'll run out of resources and, in the case of a business, customers. But you definitely want to grow to some point where you can reliably meet significant demand, can absorb some level of mishap, afford to take some risk, and so on.

    True, but that only became doomed because someone else managed to introduce a product which became suddenly competitive, by changing consumer behaviour en-masse. If the context in which they were operating hadn't changed then I suspect that MS would be doing the same old thing, and that it'd still be working.
     
  36. Linus

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    I odnt see the big deal, so we get royalties slapped on our games. Its only money
     
  37. Murgilod

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    What? Nobody said anything about royalties. Also money is kind of a big deal if you want to do things like eat and pay rent.
     
  38. AcidArrow

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    It's not though.
     
  39. LMan

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    Imagining myself as an investor, I would buy in because Unity is doing well and expanding into multiple industries- it looks like they are about to be doing even better. I wouldn't want to mess with that unless I lost confidence in what was happening. In fact, you'd probably have to sell me on any deviation from the current trajectory, because that's what sold me on buying in in the first place.
     
  40. Megazorz

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    Guys I've read your post, but all I can say is when Unity goes public INVEST YOUR ASS OFF!! This will be like investing in Microsoft when it first started. 3d graphics ARE the future of EVERYTHING. And nothing really compares to unity. I invested in Nvidia and also Abobe way back many moons ago, because I understood those to be the future also. And they were real slow for a while but the last few years they all just SKYROCKETED BIG TIME and you will never have that opportunity again I've made tens of thousands of dollars so far on adobe and nvidia, I can't wait for unity to go public because it's going to be my next big investment! Cheers!

    Edit; you also have to understand that unity in relative terms is still "new" like in its infancy. And its so great already, and it only gets better every day. The future is extremely bright for unity! GO PUBLIC ALREADY! ;P
     
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  41. chingwa

    chingwa

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    [many years from now, sinking into an over large leather-lined chair, the sweet smell of well used pipe smoke lingers in the cavernous oak rafters above, I give a half glance to the eager young journalist at my side as he interrupts my reverie]
    "Chingwa, sir, how was it you came by your first billion dollars?"

    [I give him a sharp glance, accusing playfully with my eyes as if to be annoyed, pleased immensely how that simple look seemed to agitate him into a nervous retraction]
    "I mean I, uh, w was there someone you looked to for experience? A m m mentor?"

    [i turned the question over in my mind as I turned the tumbler of scotch slowly in my hand. There was a pregnant pause as I considered giving a truthful response. The fire danced warmly across the cold marble floor as I leaned in, slowly and deliberatly, as if had just remembered a long lost secret. I held his attention silently in a vice-like gaze and gave him only one word...]
    @Megazorz

    :D
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  42. Teila

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    :)
    Chingwa, you are a man of many talents! Now I want to hear more stories from you.
     
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  43. hippocoder

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    ew @ photoshop for just about all indies on earth. You guys can sub to the world, meanwhile I'll enjoy Kirita among other free equally good apps (which I'll remind you are more than sufficient).
     
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  44. Gekigengar

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    This is a very epic news..
    Unreal Unity 2020.png Tell me you guys aren't excited for this?
     
  45. AcidArrow

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    What does Epic have to do with this?
     
  46. Gekigengar

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    Its public, its open for anyone to buyout, including competitors.
     
  47. AcidArrow

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    So what you're saying is all companies ever are on topic now.
     
  48. Kiwasi

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    Competitor buyout and shutdown or merge is certainly one of the issues that a public company faces. When the company is privately owned, it depends on the whim of the private owners, which normally align with the company. But with a public company the directors and shareholders can get completely out of sync.
     
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  49. jcarpay

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    Autodesk is one of those (public traded) companies aggressively buying competitors.
    Autodesk is extremely number driven, essentially doesn't care about its customers.

    Their long list of end-of-life products:
    https://www.cadnauseam.com/autodesk-graveyard/

    You really want Unity to fall into hands like Autodesk?
     
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  50. zenGarden

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    LOL

    Microsoft makes more sense.

    They would support Unity instead of trying to change it, while Unity would be a strategic choice for their Xbox platform, like making it fully free and royalties free when a studio or an indie makes a game for Xbox platform.
    Somewhat like Epic is royaltie free when you make a game exclusive for their store.

    Exclusive titles will be the big battle for consoles and gaming services, similar to Netflix, Amazon and other having their own exclusive titles.
     
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