Unity Feedback dead?

Hello everyone,

the feedback post i created didn't seem to have any attention from Unity for over a month and a half, even though it has 180 votes now. Since I didn't know if 180 just wasn't enough to compete with other posts, i checked posts that were "under review" and sorted them by creation date.

The last posts "under review" and "started" are over half a year old, "planned" starts with posts from May 2014. Is Unity Feedback dead? Because if so, I would have liked to get a warning on that and tried to get the changes I need for my project to be worth anything to be recognised some other way.

 

Yeah it's a mess. Last time I browsed stuff at feedback for good there were several years old entries that were already done or outdated, duplicates and some of the status stuff was just random or placebo

Top 10 voted items have no status. If there are no plans for stuff at the moment it should be marked at least declined or add new status "Not currently planned". I think dark skin has already been declined on forums few times, and no hard plans for linux for example. Mono has been said to be on update list some time in future just like terrain but there is not even planned or under review status

Feedback problem is probably linked to the no roadmap problem.

 

Yeah they like, ignore most voted suggestion that was "on the top" for over 3 years (currently 20683 votes, though it'll go up I believe). Pretty much dead I'd say.

 

Yeah they should really just take it down if they're going to disregard it anyway.

 

Yup, so much for democratizing gamedev.

 

Almost no one actually uses the feedback system. The most voted entry, a port of the editor to Linux, only has about 20,000 votes. That may seem like quite a bit, but not only can you put your entire allotment of votes into a single entry but there are over four million developers using Unity.

Assuming every vote was a single person, that's still only 0.5% of the user base for the highest voted entry. The majority of feedback entries are not even in the hundreds, let alone the thousands of votes.

 

I've always felt unity is very shy as far as its community involvement is concerned. They made more of an effort a year or so ago, but that seems to have lessened.

 

That's kind of like how America works. Maybe the elections have a bit more people, but for all the other smaller things, many less citizens officially cast their opinions.

 

Now ask yourself why there are 5000 open suggestions. Because it is dead maybe?

Unity Feedback suffers from two things. Only 10 votes per person. Which is a joke for somebody who really wants to suggest something at a regular base. Yeah, i made my 11th suggestion, but i cannot vote for it. Great. And it's frustrating even for one who just votes from time to time.

And second, which is more important, like with Bug reports, no one really cares about them. The stuff that the developers wants to develop gets developed anyways. And the other stuff gets ignored.

 

That's the reason why it is currently dead. But it's good to hear that you plan to make it alive again. Best of luck

 

Suggestion: Prioritize most requested features first (hint hint), then do ones that got less votes. You can use "sort by votes" option in feedback to see it.

 

You wish.

 

I agree with this; once you've spent your 10 votes, there's no longer any reason to interact with the site at all. Maybe unlimited up/down votes would encourage more interaction from users.

 

One very easy thing you could do that would help a lot would be to just reset all the votes periodically. As things change over time people's priorities change, but the tendency is to just cast votes and then forget about them, or they may not even be using the engine anymore. Also, a lot of things near the top were voted up when the asset store was very new. Now that there are assets for those things they might not really be so important anymore. So if you don't ever reset the votes you won't get an accurate picture of what is important to current users.

You could also go back to just having a features requests forum section. It would be a lot simpler.

 

Many users don't find the Feedback section. Those that do make their way there get 10 votes and can then do nothing more.

Perhaps a user should get 1 vote for every like they get on the forums (and whatever equivalent they get on Answers). Only likes from trusted accounts could count if needed to avoid cheating.

 

Why do you assume that everybody would misuse the system and wildly run through all the suggestions to vote everything? Maybe some crazy ones will really do that. But the masses will most probably just vote for what they are really interested in. Ways too much clicks to vote really all suggestions. And there are quite a few features that just makes sense to some. Like a linux version.

So one voice per feature is imho perfectly fine, and would suit the system much better than the current system that throws the people out after 10 votes. Or even earlier when they are crazy enough to spend more than one voice at a feature. I haven't voted for years because of exactly that reason. You would get a far better and more realistic result in what the people are really interested. 2000 people like this feature, 3000 people like that feature. And so on.

Why should i be forced to remove my vote from promising features at all? I once gave my voice to this feature for good reason.

 

I understand the reasoning behind doing it that way, I'm just saying that (at least for my own part) it discourages regular interaction. When I've spent my 10 votes, I'm not going to come back the next day, or even the next month, to redistribute my votes. I've made my choices, and I'm sticking to them. If suggestions were implemented or closed at a faster rate, I could maybe see it working, as I'd get my votes back faster.

Another issue I see is that it's not really a good format for minor improvements. There is a lot of low hanging fruit there that would be a real boon to everyones productivity, but it's not going to get any votes because when you only have 10 votes, people are more likely to put them on the large major features.

 

You do realize we can do that now by creating multiple accounts, right?

 

With these types of feedback systems you get your votes back when something you voted on is marked resolved. So I don't think the problem is with the design of the feedback system, but rather that Unity isn't marking things resolved as quickly as they could.

 

Then how about upvote/downvote system like at Reddit? Each person gets exactly 1 vote per suggestion, but they can vote on as many things as they like.

I can see only pros with that approach:

- You see real interest in the feature (as someone can't just stuff 10 votes on a thing)
- Barrier of entry for fake votes is even higher than current system (instead of just making 1 account to stuff it by 10 votes, you have to make 10)

 

I didn't realise this. That actually makes the feedback system far more relevant, I might go on there and vote now.

Previously I'd simply seen plenty of complaints that once you voted ten time your votes were gone. So I hadn't bothered. But retractable votes make this system viable to use.

After all, my needs now are pretty different to my needs starting up.

 

This is probably one of those "too complicated to code in an afternoon" type of suggestions, but I think that the idea of a 'difficulty' system could be made to work. Instead of basing it purely on difficulty, which may be difficult both to judge quickly and for those outside of the engine code to see, base it on a concept of the production roadmap.

Note that my category 'names' need a lot of work.

Perhaps a category for "we would like to do this" set up with the expectation and understanding that it may not happen. This keeps your vote locked in unless you withdraw it.

A category for "could be part of the journey" for things Unity would consider doing. Your vote also stays unless withdrawn.

A category for "unlikely due to resources" to represent both things too difficult to complete easily and ones just beyond the scope of what Unity wants in the engine. This category needs a way to apply a single vote per user to say, "Hey, I'd like to see this anyway," so Unity can know the idea is popular, but which does not lock up one of the ten votes.

A final category for "outside of the scope" for things you just are not going to do. That frees up the vote and locks the category against further voting.

Plus the whole "we've implemented this" or "this is under construction" categories, both of which lock out voting and free up votes.

 

I see the feedback system in one year in the same state than it is now. The main problems are all still there. It does not help just to push the reset button. It's the system that has failed. And to prevent it from failing again you need to change the system.

 

Like superpig already said, it wouldn't work. Most people would just upvote everything they see, because why not? most or all of the features are one you might need sometime in future.

The current system would be good if user votes would be reset monthly or quarterly with maybe an email to the user of his votes before reset. The votes would be then at least a bit realistic and more up to date for possible scheduling/prioritizing.

Are inactive account votes passive or already deleted automatically?

 

Does this *i vote everything* happen at Reddit? Nope. Does the voting system work there as intended? Yes. So the Reddit system has shown that it's proven and working.

Did the current Unity feedback system work in the last five years as expected? Nope. Will the current Unity feedback fail again, even after a cleanup? Now make an educational guess

 

Tiles, so far I agree with your points, system seems to have failed. Even if work is being done on it, adding categories and new sections does not help much. How many people are actually working on this clean up?
How many features that been asked for in the feedback system have actually been added to Unity?
I think it be just better to start a fresh as it seems to me a cleanup will cause more time wasting, just my personal opinion.

 

The stuff you vote on reddit is a lot different than engine features and such. For example I wouldn't downvote the linux item in feedback even tho I have been making wake up calls to the dreamers in the thread here.

 

There is imho no real difference. Except, the Reddit system is a proven and working solution. And the Unity Feedback system has shown in the past that it did not work.

The relevant point is, before cleaning up and pressing the restart button you have to find out why the old system failed. And fix it. Or you will run into the same problem again.

 

The problem is that the old system was not properly maintained and moderated. That's pretty obvious in my opinion and also how it can be solved.

 

Agreed, hence the question, is it ones persons job to maintain and moderate or team?

 

I would down vote Linux.

The ultimate challenge is not that the system failed. It's that feed back to unity is only a small part of the system for deciding what happens. Unity isn't bound by the feedback at all.

I'm not saying they should be bound be feedback. I'm just saying it's totally reasonable for Unity to look and the feedback list and ignore top items they don't want to do. (Like the obviously gamed Linux editor).

So you could have the best feedback system in the world. And top items would still go undone because they don't fit Unity's strategic vision.

 

It has to be maintained by Unity or a moderation team, just like the forum. In my opinion, if it should be of any value, it has to be moderated to clean it up. There are many duplicates and people having requests that didn't do proper research or simply should ask in the forum.
I just quickly went there to find an example and coincidentally one of the newest entries is a perfect example:
http://feedback.unity3d.com/suggestions/dealing-with-canvases-and-android-resolutions

 

Yes but moderated by someone who "knows" the Unity system inside out and what features it has already and has not. So maybe a developer..

 

Nah, developers should develop. Not community manage.

 

OK fair point, well they will still need to see whats been posted and suggested.

 

If it is moderated, it becomes a lot more pleasant to have a look at it, simply because of the more organized nature of it.
I don't think it is necessary that we tell them how they should do the work. It costs them money to improve and manage the feedback and I am sure they are doing it because they want to actually use it.

 

They could let community member "mods" to premanage the stuff some way like at least for the outdated/completed items. 1-5 mods vote for status change based on their knowledge and Unity staff approves. I don't know who is doing the work now but if it's CM style people who do not use or know Unity enough they have to harass devs anyway and they probably don't even know who to contact.

 

Well, maybe we shouldn't tell them how to do the job. But i think we should tell them why we don't use their system.

I don't use the feedback system because of the 10 votes thing. Not the lack of moderation. Give me 100 more moderators, and i will still not use it with the 10 votes system.

 

It's basic stats science that limited votes make the users vote only on the most important things and therefore gives more accurate data to reviewers. It also allows items to reviewed on scale of 1-10 when given vote count by individuals are observed. Unlimited single votes would mean a lot more unreliable stats.

For me to voting system is fine but lack of moderation makes it "dead" to me.

 

And the reality has disproven this basic stats science here. No votes, no results at all

Maybe we should make a survey for that? And simply ask the people why they have stopped using the system.

 

Non-voters wont affect the results in current system at all and half voters and also be filtered out, along with pro users, active past 3 months etc

With unlimited it's impossible to do a lot differet of statistical segmentation.

 

Of course there is more potential, but the number one reason why it didn't work is because it was not maintained. When I was told by someone from Unity that I should post an idea there I though, I could tell it to my grand mother or maybe write it done into a letter and send it to a black hole and both of those would likely have the same effect regarding the request as adding it to the feedback.
Resolving that is without doubt the number one priority in my opinion. And as they start to work it out more and more, I am sure they will find other ways to improve it. When they are unsure about what to do, I am sure they will start some official feedback thread in the forum or make a user survey.

A change in a system like that always means that it will be used differently and it is not always predictable how it will be used differently. The people who are working on the feedback page will definitely discuss things and have their own ideas about how it can become more valuable in the future.

 

What's there to clean when you only need to sort suggestions out by vote count.

 

There is another service similar to UserVoice called IdeaScale which allows both up and down voting:

http://ideascale.com

Here is an example of it in use by The Foundry for their Mari app:

http://mari.ideascale.com

 

How about if we were given new votes at regular intervals, say each month. And you'd have to spend them that month to get new ones next month, so you can't just gather votes en masse just by having an account. That would be an incentive for people to come back and interact with the site regularly.

Maybe pro users should get more votes as well, would fit with the new pro/free split strategy I think.

Or allow us to purchase new votes with microtransactions? OK, I'll stop now...