Unity CEO On VR/AR: ‘In My Mind We Haven’t Seen A Consumer Launch Yet’

Every game I have played that supports both VR and non-VR looks vastly better in non-VR. VR is blury, grainy, washed out, and dim compared to non-VR. For example, I played Everspace in both non-VR and then in VR using an Oculus Rift. In non-VR, Everspace looks amazing. In VR, Everspace looks blury, grainy, washed out, and dim. It does not look amazing in VR. The one really nice thing about VR is the head-look, and that does add a lot to Everspace. But the game itself looks vastly better in non-VR. Again, this was the same game using the same art assets. VR made the game look far worse than non-VR.

 

I tired every game and app I had access to. I have a decent Steam library, so I played a variety of games on it. Every game looks vastly better using non-VR than in VR.

 

Actually, there is a really solid peeking mechanic in PUBG. Every good PUBG player uses it to stay in cover while peeking to get a shot. In PUBG, use Q & E to peek.

 

That may very well be the answer but the problem is there are likely a lot of people like them that have tried it and written it off because it wasn't good enough for them at the time. Worse yet the reasoning that pro-VR people like to use is basically just a variant of the tired (and insulting if you take a moment to think about it) phrase "You just don't understand it".

 

Well yes, generally a large-scale port is going to look worse at this stage, but despite this, most ports are better in VR if we're not talking about graphics. Though there are exceptions like Thumper where even graphically, it's fine.

Sounds like graphics are what you look for most in a game. If it's that important to you, just wait a few years until parity is reached. I was mostly talking about gameplay as I figured this was the most prominent thing to discuss.

 

Care to name some examples? Sounds like you played mostly games that had VR slapped into them afterwards instead of being a VR title from the beginning. Did you try the things that come free, ie. First contact, Dead & Buried, Echo Arena, Bullet Train or Robo Recall? did they really look terrible to you?

 

It comes down to the language used. "VR is not quite there yet", or "VR has potential" are logical conclusions to make.

"VR is a gimmick", or "VR is a joke" are not rational conclusions because it's simply unfounded and misrepresentitive of what it's like when sampling each area of the medium.

 

Tell that to anyone who've played Rec Room.

Tell that to anyone who've used it for real estate purposes (like I said before, VR is huge in the real estate market).

PSVR already has a healthy games library, and it's still growing.

VR may be a joke to you, but it certainly isn't for a lot more people than you think.

 

That's not the same thing as pointing a gun behind a corner or cover and doing blindfire or small peeking at nearly any height. The lean mechanisms in desktop games pretty much always have fixed animation and stance making it easier to shoot a leaning player.

 

Yes, but there are plenty of people who don't use irrational phrases and still receive that very same response.

 

True, but that's on other people. I'd only respond like that when it's plainly obvious what the situation is like.

 

Graphics are not the only thing I want, but I should be able to enjoy VR without seeing a significant degradation in graphics. As for gameplay, the head-look in VR does make Everspace more enjoyable. However, most games are less fun in VR. I still strongly prefer playing PUBG instead of any VR based FPS.

 

We haven't had any AAA VR FPS games yet, so it's hard to compare fairly right now. Lower budgets are naturally going to result in more unpolished games.

Firewall is a hit on PSVR though. People are loving the game. Echo Combat on PC has periodic betas, so it's hard to play consistently right now, but it's extreme levels of fun for me and my friends. Maybe give it a go if you can when it's fully released since it's very different from anything out there.

No doubt one or more of Valve's games are going to be a VR FPS. That's when you can start making comparisons. Or Stormland when that releases, since it's a AAA open world FPS.

 

I don't have a PSVR, so I have no idea about how good or bad those titles are. I do have an Oculus Rift, and I have been disappointed with it so far. It currently sits in a box in a closet. I will happily drag it back out as soon as there is a truly must play PC VR game.

 

Lone Echo and Echo VR, Beat Saber, Moss, Hellblade VR (basically no graphics downgrade), Alien Isolation VR mod. Try those five.

 

You are not in cover while taking the shot, example from our game, also bonus grenade throw from cover

 

...or just try any of the free games that are available for with the purchase. However based on @ShilohGames replies here it might be that he actually does not even have the Touch motion controllers (early Rift buyer) and it would explain why he has only played poor stuff and commented some of the stuff like he would have never used VR at all, like those FPS differences

 

Another aspect of VR is customization. In our game you can place the scope were ever you want, or you can put a small redodt on top of the scope for CQB, also you can use both eyes for situtal awarness when looking down a scope.

 

Honestly I reckon games like civ, crusader kings, hearts of iron ect are going to get the most out of VR. The games are so information dense, and the information can't be easily parsed and manipulated in the space provided by a normal screen. Building a decent 3D UI for the game will make it a thousand times better. Imagine playing a HOI session where you can leave the logistics and production stuff pinned to your left. Pin the combat reports in a continuous stream to your right. And in front of you you can throw up a bunch of separate maps showing theaters of interest. In this setup I still imagine the map being presented in 2D.

I personally think VR duplicating reality isn't the way its going to pan out. Its a gimmick that will fade and die. The keyboard doesn't duplicate writing by hand, yet its all but replaced the pen for modern writing tasks, It will be the same with VR. It won't shine by duplicating reality. It will shine by doing stuff that reality just can't handle. I'm ultimately picturing something like the user interface Stark uses in Iron Man. Duplicating reality also leads to uncanny valley issues. Making it deliberately fake allows the user to abstract it away the same way we do a controller.

The enemies gate is down.

 

On the subject of leaning, the car chase sequence in London Heist is intense:

You can lean out the car window at any time to look behind you, look up, look anywhere. Fully immersive. That's something you just can't achieve on a flat screen.

London Heist is more of an "experience" than a full game, but a full game (Blood and Truth) is in development and is due to ship soon.

Resident Evil 7 is also a great example of leaning around corners. Or more accurately, you'll be on your knees and trembling and trying to conjure up the will to peek up over the couch you're hiding behind.

 

Yeah, I could list countless examples where leaning or decoupling weapons shines. Budget Cuts is another great example, although not an FPS, being able to duck and hide around corners for real in a stealth game truly elevates the genre.

 

Yep. Or any car driving game. Driving in VR is night and day different from a flat screen. The ability to look anywhere while driving feels so natural you'll wonder why you'd want to play it in any other way. Dirt Rally VR is a great example of this.

I also spent more time than I'd like to admit doing nothing but waving my arms around and shooting flames out of my hands while screaming "I AM DRAGONBORN!" in Skyrim VR.

 

I have the Touch motion controllers, and it does add value to the experience.

 

I am sorry, but that just doesn't look like fun to me. But I will openly admit that I am one of those old school shooter fans that feels that cover shooters kill too much of the action. One of my favorite games was Doom (1993).

As for blind fire, that has been done in desktop games already. That is not just a VR thing. For example, Rainbow Six Vegas (2006) had that feature.

 

It's not that it has been done before. It's that you can never do it with much degree of accuracy in a normal game. But if you're not the biggest fan of cover, then try Robo Recall. (and Echo Combat)when it releases)

 

Difference is here you have direct control of the blind fire, you can never recreate that mechanic with mouse and keyboard

 

Why would made you say so? To recreate, typically you would just need stand next to the wall edge, hold relevant button, and move mouse, "up" / "down" left / right.

But for whatever reason, I haven't seen such mechanics in games. This typically applies for games, if they got port to / from consoles, with much less dynamic functionality, since you have less buttons on the controller.

 

It's impossible for a mouse and keyboard or a gamepad to have direct control and intuitiveness in blind fire no matter how you design the game.

 

You probably won't get same accuracy or intuitiveness, but is not impossible.

 

Well you could implement any feature existing in VR on desktop, would it be playable ? No

 

Btw, I don't like dumbed down cover shooters either, the ones with predefined cover points that you reach to by pressing a button, lame.

Though most PC shooters with enough fidiellity have cover elements, same with VR only that's it's better and more fun

 

I haven't done it, But I played long time game, where you could look behind a corner. So is not that difficult to implement. I haven't experianced such mechanics in any other fps game since. Which is a shame. But I haven't played much of fps anyway. Just because haven't seen it, I wouldn't claim is not possible. Years of evolving FPS, probably found, that such mechanics is least practical, or not needed for good game play. For example, instead of throwing grenade 90 deg, behind corner, you can utilize surroundings, to bounce it off. Of course, not always possible, but is an alternative. Also, if I got game where everyone shoot behind a corner, no one would ever die, while camping. So here is a probably a reason, for little of such mechanics, from point of play-ability.

Also, to counter your argument, same applies "flat screen" mechanics to VR. Until you can move dynamically across vast open spaces, without any issues, then I will give you that. I want to run crouch, lie down, jump in fps games. On "Falt Screen" I can do it over and over. On VR, you are limited to a space. And even then, you are limited to human ability, for how long you can do certain exercises. That if talking strictly about FPS.

I see great potential of VR in simulators however. You don't need to move anywhere, to traverse miles and yet have easy immersive experience. For example a helicopter pilot.

 

Regardless, it's not intuitive because the game will lock you into a state. There are no states in VR.

To counter your counter-argument, you actually can crouch, lie down, jump and move at fast paced speeds, or do anything you can do in a normal game. You are only limited to a space for 1:1 physical movement. In Sprint Vector, I'm still running, jumping, flying, climbing, and doing parkour with physically involved actions. Just apply that to an FPS game and you're golden. As mentioned earlier, Echo Combat has it's own unique zero G movement system.

 

Crouching,leaning and go prone is all done IRL. Sure go prone need some space granted. Only thing that is artificial in our game is walking and sprinting (You can still do small movements in room scale, but for large distances you do it artificial). Even though its artificial we have added alot more realism do it than classic shooters. Lots of constraints,

 

I guess that just isn't a decent selling point for me. Intuitive blind fire does not rank for me. Hiding and blind firing around a corner isn't exciting to me regardless of whether or not it is VR.

 

It's just because you have not lived the moment when you take out a enemy player that way, it does not stop at corners it also works to shoot above head etc.

 

Nice tech demo so far.
So the one more matter left to resolve, is crawling. How you approach that? Is hard to convince casual VR player to crawl on their carpet. I suppose also will be artificial?

 

Yeah just prone and use the touchpad to navigate (at a crawling speed).

 

Another solution is to go prone and pull the world with your hands on the ground. Basically like climbing but on the ground.

 

Something that might really get me excited about VR is a sword fighting game. A really nuanced one like Anders has with his warfighting game. Little flicks of the wrist to sliide your blade over and enemies and jab them in the throat. That kind of detail.

 

I think the players can find that a bit illogical since you use the touchpad when not prone to move around. Maybe better suited fro a game that uses arm swing locomotion or similar?

 

This dev has a promising game on the way:

 

We are still working on and off on our knife system, its hard to get good since you cant physically move the other players (Well you could if you lowered FOV while doing it, but FOV reduction from none user initiated actions feels strange). Though in a singel player game it could work better.One thing we have noticied its that its ok for the item to desync from the controlers actual position if its not too far or for a to long of a peroid. We do that for items in hand if they collide into something or for stuff that are forced to follow something like the mag injected into a mag well.

recorded a little video to show you what I mean, but might be hard for you to know whats desync since you cant see the actual controllers in the video.

 

Haha. A new era of ridiculous video game violence is born.

Only thing about melee combat is that you don't get physical feedback. IRL, you swing your sword -- it gets blocked -- you get physical feedback, right. But in the game that may be a little weird.

In any case, I think the idea is great and if you are slaying fools by the dozens, that is probably enough fun to overshadow the limitations of virtual fighting.

 

Look at my vid when I slam the light into the table. The brain makes it some what real actually

 

like, your hand just kind of intuitively follows what the eye is seeing? pretty cool stuff.

Now what I want to see -- and this just might be enough to get me to buy a VR headset -- is sneaking up behind a guy, putting him in a choke hold, but then he bites your fingers and you have a little minigame where you manage a pain meter versus time-to-choke-enemy-out meter. Maybe you can poke him in the eyes, fish hook him, blood squirting everywhere... video games need this level of violence, you see.

Joking. But it's definitely a very interesting new field. No doubt I'll be checking it out in the next few years, but as I'm not earning any cash at the moment, kind of hard to justify such a big luxury expenditure.

 

The item is driven by physics and when its in the hand we try to sync it with the controllers. But if its a other physical item in the way that cant be moved it will desync from controller. Not harder than that

edit: Most VR games dont let the items in hand be physical though. THey clip other items

 

What I mean is, if I swing my fist into somebodies face in real life, my fist must come to a stop. But in VR, my real life hand is going to keep moving, while the virtual hand comes to stop.

This seems like it would confuse me, or at least make a nuanced melee fighting game devolve to spastic flailing -- though I haven't played VR I'm only speculating.

 

If it's just an NPC, then you just need to have them react appropriately by being knocked back or going through an animation / apply physics.

 

Yes, and to a degree the brain makes this happen. When the lamp and attached hand is stopped by the table in my above video my brain makes it feel real to a degree. Hard to explain. The in game hand feels like my own, and when its stopped by the table it to a degree feels that its my real hand, even though my real hand do keep on going since there is no table (There is no spoon)