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Unity 4 Details

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MattCarr, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. Kuba

    Kuba

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  2. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    I can't wait for us to share it with everyone :)
     
  3. Kuba

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    Having shadows on mobile wouldn't automatically mean that depth based effects will be available there.
    But there will be depth texture support on iOS/Android as Aras mentioned -- so those effects will be possible.
     
  4. AngryAnt

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    Not sure I fully understand you here, but wanted to point out that the majority of Mecanim is available for free.
     
  5. Kuba

    Kuba

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    There were a few errors in the license comparison table, please check it out again: http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses

    Lightmapping with Normalmaps -- all Pro licenses.
    Improved Cubemap Import -- all licenses.
     
  6. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    Whatever do you mean? ;)
     
  7. Kuba

    Kuba

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    Come again?
     
  8. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    Nice summary. Thanks :)
     
  9. AngryAnt

    AngryAnt

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    The wasteland guys have had nothing to do with the Linux platform addition. If you check our blogs and forum posts, you'll see its a friday project that some utech devs have been working on for a while and we now decided that it's ready for prime time :)

    Might we do some work with the Wasteland guys if they really want to contribute? Sure, why not?
     
  10. Kuba

    Kuba

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    Iterative lightmap baking
    Sends the whole scene to the lightmapper, but bakes the lightmaps only for the selected objects. Thanks to that all the objects cast shadows and bounce light on the currently baked objects, while keeping the bake time low, since it scales almost linearly with the amount of texels baked.

    Then when fetching the lightmaps it combines the parts of old lightmaps (for the objects that were marked as static and were pointing at proper lightmaps at the time of the bake) with the parts of newly baked lightmaps into entirely new atlases.

    That allows you to iteratively work on your scene: first bake a few objects that you're concerned with, then select some other objects that you want to see the lighting on and bake those without loosing previous results, while still keeping the atlasing optimal.

    Lightmapping with normalmaps
    Passes the tangent space information and normalmaps to the lightmapper, so that they affect the diffuse lighting component stored in the lightmaps. That makes it possible to add detail to the lightmaps (if their resolution is high enough to show it) or to show big features coming from normal maps (in cases when the resolution is quite low).

    It also makes the difference between the near and far areas in Dual Lightmaps mode less visible, as the far area is now showing the detail from the normal maps.

    Lower memory requirements
    The lightmaps that we fetch from the lightmapper need to be postprocessed quite a bit before being saved to disk as EXR files and we have made those algorithms use much less memory and be quicker at the same time.
     
  11. n0mad

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    Except for the "promised UI" part.

    http://unity3d.com/company/news/unity-unveils-3rd-generation-platform-press.html

    Now please stop trying to turn disgruntled 3.x users into delusional people. That GUI thing was simply everywhere : articles, press releases, interviews, forum posts. It was just a few words, but it was there. With such a load of visibility (and with this link above, concrete roadmap), please stop dodging bullets.

    I don't want to go into a crusade against 4.x really, but please stop with this GUI stuff dodging.
     
  12. Joe-Robins

    Joe-Robins

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    /me Jumps in-front of the bullet

    So our aim was to release the GUI's and 2d sprite engine...
    We iterated on the design multiple times to try and get it to a level where we were happy enough to release...
    We have high standards, especially with a system that is so crucial and important to people...
    It wasn't ready...
    The decision was taken to give it more time and make sure it kicked ass...
    When people from Unity or in press statements or on our roadmap we talk about features being added, it is always our intention to follow through and we aim to reach those targets. In this one instance, its simply not ready for prime time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  13. n0mad

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    lol :p
    (was a silver bullet !)

    Ok I salute you for this, really. But as explained a lot of times all around, the problem is not to delay the stuff, it is to force 3.x users to pay for 2000 more bucks in order to be able to have this feature, when you teased us to the bone for 2 years !

    (and now I'm making so many precisions that it really looks like a crusade .. xD)
     
  14. Joe-Robins

    Joe-Robins

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    Its worth nothing for perspective that the money won't just be for this one feature... I get your point, but singling this out as the one reason to upgrade to 4.0 kinda blurs the reality, there are a bunch of extra awesome features that you are getting for "free" if you are upgrading solely for GUI
     
  15. BrUnO-XaVIeR

    BrUnO-XaVIeR

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    I dont get it... You told me to not shoot anyone. But you eagerly jumped in front of his bullets :p
     
  16. n0mad

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    What if I don't want 4.0 features, but only want a working ingame mobile GUI with my 3.x ?
    Come on guys...
     
  17. linusnorden

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    Time for the Unity guys to face the fact that they said one thing but did another. We all understand that you can bump in to unexpected problems but trying to avoid the fact that they promised the GUI a long time ago and didn't deliver is just annoying and disrespectful . Some of use invested money for the upgrade thinking that the GUI will come
    but now 2 year later nothing. Thats what i call false advertisement!

    So instead of being arrogant just apologies and face the fact that you did a mistake!
     
  18. Joe-Robins

    Joe-Robins

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    I'm pretty sure that one was clearly a metaphorical bullet ;)
     
  19. runonthespot

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    One thing I'd like to point out - as it appears necessary to increase the cost to sustain the ever growing company and extending and Triple-A-izing the engine, perhaps it's finally time to start looking at alternative licensing arrangements to prevent the chasm between Indie and Studio increasing.

    I think for now the balance is okay- and an Indie can realistically save for and buy the pro version of this engine (and stretch to mobile maybe), and I certainly see the benefit of going royalty free but I can see in a few years, with this sort of trend, it's either going to cap Unity's growth, or alienate indies / undermine the "democratization of game development" mantra.

    I'm curious what prevents Unity adopting a royalty based approach? The pain of administrating it? A sense that it is unfair on developers? Fear that it would dilute primary sales detrimentally?
     
  20. Arowx

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    I think a royalty based approach would not currently work for Unity because of the focus on mobile games and the low revenue streams they produce on average.

    But with their drive to AAA quality in 4.0 maybe it could become a more lucrative option if they can deliver a AAA engine!
     
  21. thesaint1987

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    Ever looked at a AAA engine?
     
  22. imaginaryhuman

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    I don't know why everyone is still thinking that Unity `promised` anything. They said they were working on it and that it was coming, but they didn't ever specifically say `yes, it absolutely will be released for 3.5 or whatever` ... that's just the way people are interpreting/reading into/getting hopes up about what was said.

    Also in this world there is NEVER anything that can be gauranteed, everything always changes and nothing is certain. The best anyone can do is to say `it is most likely` that something will happen, and sometimes it doesn't happen. If you can be okay with that you won't lose your head over it but if you think something `absolutely` must happen you're setting yourself up for a let-down. Surprise.

    And how about some forgiveness?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  23. Arowx

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    Unity I forgive you for not delivering a GUI, completing the features you released in 3.5 and leaving me stranded with and already outdated version of your game engine after just over a year of license ownership. And for taking those 3.5 features to new levels of optimisation and completness for all the new (not broke) 4.0 game developers.

    Your right ImaginaryHuman forgiveness feels good, I'm off to learn UDK!

    Often I like playing FPS / RTS games the modern ones tend to use CryEngine, Unreal and Frostbyte although that's from an end user perspective.

    But I've just started learning UDK, if I can stop firing up the Unreal levels for a blast that is ;0)!
     
  24. _rem

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    All versions 3.5 -> 3.5.2 are bugged see here :
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/131842-Unity-3.51-still-in-beta-with-these-bugs/page2
    I simplified my game as much as possible, there is a "Terrain", a character with 5 "projectors" if I use "Occlusion Culling" with "Occlusion Area", "drawcalls" are multiplied by 4 or 5 compared to version 3.4.2 ?
    The same project / scene opened in 3.5.2 uses 500 MB more of memory compared to version 3.4.2?
    If these bugs are not fixed in version 3.5.3 I'll ask Unity to reimburse me for failing to fulfill its part of the contract ...
    Case 458215
     
  25. Kuba

    Kuba

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    iOS 6 compatibility counts as a fix -- it will be there in 3.x, don't worry.
     
  26. Dreamora

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    Thats cool, thanks :)
     
  27. antenna-tree

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    Those are pretty harsh words, but you never sent in the repro case. If you're this angry and are this convinced that you deserve a refund I'd hope that you'd give us an opportunity to actually look at the bug and see where the problem lies.
     
  28. moonjump

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    Sounds like a complete nightmare. They would need to be able to track the Unity related income of each of the vast number of downloaders. How many would give accurate numbers, never mind allow access to accounts for checking? I wouldn't want to go there. I would question Unity's sanity if they did.

    Thank you.
     
  29. Ippokratis

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    Super ! You guys rock :)
    It is very beneficial for people developing asset store plugins besides those who build games. Think gizmos, crazy gui stuff ( oops, I said the g word :p ).

    Also, it would be a very nice move to allow c / c++ plugins access for free version. There are many things ( midi, texture manipulation via pointers, wacom pressure data, loads of useful and efficient open source libraries etc ) that could be developed by users and offered in the asset store if this barrier was lifted. Right now, such solutions are accessible only to Pro users, hence the profit margin is low for those who create such assets.

    -Ippokratis
     
  30. kenlem

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    BIG WET KISS TO THE CHEEK! OK. I'm done here. Back to work for me.
     
  31. n0mad

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    Please read at least the page you're posting in.
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/140299-Unity-4-Details?p=960978&viewfull=1#post960978
     
  32. Tseng

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    I disagree. With such a model, people would be paying for what they really need and unity in turn would have to deliver what the customers need, not what they think may be a nice feature.

    DX11 is such an example. DX11 is nice, sure. But I'm sure 80% of the Unity community won't need this feature anytime soon (next 2-3 years). GUI (or even Localization features) are much more needed and much more people would pay to get it, because they are essential. DX11 isn't.

    Same applies for NavMesh, it's an advanced feature, though it's much more "needed" than the two above... when it's completed of course.


    I think so far every user/customer can understand it.
    But when you weren't ready for the announced features, you weren't ready for the 4.x product line neither. Simple as that.

    Most of the other features aren't as useful for the majority, that's the main issue. For most people, the GUI was one of the biggest issues with 3.x and as it looks now, most of these people would have to pay 850/1700/2550 $ to have a chance for a new UI.

    We remember, it has been mentioned years ago that new GUI is coming

    A big chunk of this new features are aimed towards big companies with 10-20+ developers working on a title and for them, this features definitely doesn't sound too bad.

    For everyone else with <5 developers/seats, the 4.0 announcement just reads as: "Pay 850/1700/2550$ per seat for a chance on new GUI system and the other half of the 3.5 features."
     
  33. RobinS

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    I can't wait to test out the Unit 4.0 features.
    Specially Mecanim and DX11, great work guys!

    Do you plan to release Unity 4 with pre made DX11 shaders ?
     
  34. PrimeDerektive

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    Every time they ever mentioned potential 3.5 features on a roadmap they always prefaced it with "Please note that the features in this roadmap are not commitments! They may or may not end up in a final release. If a feature isn’t ready in time it will not be included in the release."
     
  35. Dreamora

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    Yes DX11 is essential cause its a minimum requirement for Win8 metro (and the windows application store) and will be one for Win8 RT tablets and Windows Phone 8. So by investing into it, those platforms are far easier reachable for Unity than without it.
    I agree that the graphical aspects are of no relevance for many cause they can't leverage it, but thats a different thing than the pure API support which is what seems to be the target (not wasting time on implementing 20 features that are DX11 only, that will be up to the users)
     
  36. echtolion

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    Has this already been said? I thought it was still pure speculation.
     
  37. joshimoo

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    That's good news and will give the current pro customers a longer window to recoup or save for the increased upgrade price.
    Thanks for that guarantee. ( I assume that this is an guarantee?)
     
  38. n0mad

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    Please see my post at top of the page :)

    Edit : ok reposting it :
    http://unity3d.com/company/news/unity-unveils-3rd-generation-platform-press.html

     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  39. Toad

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    Sounds like there's some cool stuff coming to mobile. Looking forward to getting more details on everything that's in scope for 4.0.

    Can you explain what "rendering at fractional screen upscaling levels" means please?

    And does "depth texture support on iOS/Android" mean that the Pro image effects that aren't currently supported on mobile (e.g. DOF, Global Fog, Sun Shafts) will now work?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  40. pivotraze

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    How that quote came about made my heart drop. It came out like this:
    "3.5.3 will be out soon with more fixes.

    Shadows on mobile, dynamic fonts on mobile, GPU profiling for (some) mobile systems, rendering at fractional screen upscaling levels, static batching uses much less memory, depth texture support on iOS/Android, existing UnityGUI much faster (without GUI layout: 10x faster on iOS, with GUI Layout: 2x faster), and some more."
    Darn. I saw "existing UnityGUI much faster" and thought that was scheduled for 3.5.3 now. Too bad it quoted wrong xD
     
  41. BT

    BT

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    I've been watching this thread for a while and it seems to split up into a few different camps:

    - Unity owes me _______________ feature because it was promised.
    - Unity never promised anything.
    - We can't afford the cost of upgrading
    - ______________ isn't worth the cost.
    - ______________ makes the cost worth it.
    - I can't wait!
    - Aliens!


    Putting aside which one of those items are true or if they were/weren't explicit/implied/etc the bottom line for me is Unity needs to provide value equivalent or surpassing what they are asking an organization to pay.

    If they do provide value then frankly, it really doesn't matter if this was ethical/sneaky/wise/stupid/etc because begrudgingly, we'd upgrade for the ROI if we feel its there.


    However, if the ROI doesn't exist, then it's really simple... continue using what you have, wait for the ROI to be there, or acquire new technology to replace unity.


    Each user has to arrive at that decision on their own as there's not going to be a one size fits all solution to this and Unity has the obligation to make it worth our while as none of us are on a subscription plan :p

    I can see how this can be an emotional decision for many of us as the technology promised or delivered that ROI in the past and I have my own opinion/emotional reaction as a long term Unity Pro iOS Pro user that I'm going to withhold for this post.

    If you're angry at Unity or some other user for their point of view, I'd recommend just doing the analysis recommended above and moving forward.

    At this many pages in the forum I think its past the point of expecting unity to make a change to their statement as they've started pre-orders, and if upgrading became more discounted or free they now have the issue of how to treat the customers who placed an order which makes it difficult to make all parties feel as if they have been treated as fair as possible. Unity may be different, but my past experiences have taught me that once an organization takes in money, they become entrenched in their prior decisions to charge for services even if it can be shown to be detremental.

    It really doesn't matter how Unity arrived at this point because ultimately we're all now faced with a decision of how to respond to the situation and they have the burden to get us to part with our money :p


    If this point has already been made then I apologize for bemoaning the point.


    P.S. For the unity employees participating in the thread, congrats on how you've handled yourself so far. I haven't agreed with all your points, but I think you've done a great job in dealing with a tough situation.


    -Red
     
  42. Dreamora

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    Kudos on that from my end too
     
  43. jc_lvngstn

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    Also glad this has been a pretty civil discussion so far!
    By the way...Tseng made some very excellent points above. They should get a response :)
     
  44. Daniel FF

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    Hi All,

    I love the unity. In fact, Unity brought me a productivity that is really incredible. I always liked to develop games, but never been able to monetize them out, what you can do to IOS for example, even with the basic version, is really very good. The prices to me, are not low, but I think is a fair value.

    If I could suggest something, maybe an annual subscription could resolve these issues involving pricing updates.

    Unity team, please keep this great work you guys are the best.

    Thank you!
     
  45. GiusCo

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    That's great news from UT. A big thank you again.
     
  46. QFS

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    Actually I commend Unity and the staff for allowing this kind of discussion/venting. How many other places would have shut down a thread like this by the first page and start handing out ban hammers for dissent.

    So cheers on that front! ;)
     
  47. Khyrid

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    Been suggested a lot already. http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/140344-Choose-your-licence
     
  48. Dreamora

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    Its 2012. Nobody with a proper mindset does that in the world of twitter, facebook, linked in, ... cause the backfire if it reigns outside your realms can easily make this whole thread here a 'drop on the stone' compared to the outrage a social media campaign against it could have. And that while not being able to properly answer and address the concerns like the Unity staff did here in an excellent way.
     
  49. Toad

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    That's an interesting slide deck. Apex Destruction the PhysXLab look very cool. Is it coming to Unity 4.x? If so, for which platforms?
     
  50. relational

    relational

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    Agreed forums with rival engines often have "No engine comparison" rules. It's BS.
     
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