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Unity 3D for Windows Phone 7

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by falkonragno, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. falkonragno

    falkonragno

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    Is there any plan to support Unity for Windows Phone 7, is a very ver interesting market growing every day for windows phones, and about October would be even more windwos phones around there with their version 7, it would be possible in a future to port to this smart phone? what is the actual limitation, if there is? Cause right now I have my pro license and planing to get my iphone and android license, but I see that my best choice for a XNA engine is SunBurn, but I really prefer Unity because I already know the worlkflow and all the possibilities.
     
  2. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Unity Tech would need a special exemption from Microsoft to run native code.

    --Eric
     
  3. kerters

    kerters

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    Unity Tech : Can we run your holy native code ?

    Microsoft : Nope.
     
  4. zine92

    zine92

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    Would have to depends on how open Microsoft is to all this. I think would need some sort of sdk/api from Microsoft to integrate Mono into it, i guess.
     
  5. WinningGuy

    WinningGuy

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    I don't expect MS to be allowing access to native code in the near future.

    My guess is that they eventually plan to merge the Windows and the Windows Phone code base. Since Windows 8 will be running on ARM, I think it's just a matter of time that they will be the OS for Windows Phone. Just with some UI distinctions. By Windows Phone 8 maybe? Or Windows Phone 9?

    As long as all apps are written in managed code, they could for the most part preserve compatibility. But if it's in native code, it won't work on the next platform. Thus, all the games made with it wouldn't work on the next platform.

    Though I could see a possibility if there was a special webplayer plugin for Windows Phone IE10.
     
  6. techmage

    techmage

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    I think WinningGuy is probably right, MS is making steps to make Windows their singular OS that can be deployed on anything, just with a different front. I think eventually all Unity would need to to do support Windows Mobile devices is just make sure its compatiable with RISC windows.
     
  7. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    Unity is written in C++. Converting the entire engine to C# probably won't happen, especially since all the middleware (PhysX etc.) would have to be converted as well.

    --Eric
     
  8. WinningGuy

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    We just need to convince some big publisher to foot the bill! Come on EA!
     
  9. Dreamora

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    That does not make it any better.
    The middlewares used are opted for the code, getting a similar optimization on C# is a thing of an eternity to achieve.
    And then there is the real problem: The whole graphics engine is useless too, WP7 is XNA only and XNa really is not more than a simplified subset of DX with enough limitations to make it a nightmare to port Unity I guess.


    Anyone who wants to target X360 XBLIG and all the mobiles might want to look at the delta engine which will be released on Aug 22nd right after the GamesCom according their press mail sent out yesterday, thats likely more along your interest.
     
  10. WinningGuy

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    Yeah.

    Just wish we could still use the Unity editor with it. haha
     
  11. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I think unity will probably adopt windows 7 phone eventually, just not until it becomes really popular and catches up to android. And I think it will. I think eventually we'll have a two horse race between ms and apple. The reason I think this, is because of how badly google are messing up Android.

    It has to be one of the most hostile, pirated, anti-developer platforms on planet earth. It's a shame because it has great potential.
     
  12. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    I doubt unity is gonna targeting as long as its MS.NET 4 + XNA + very limited system access. Its really painfull going there with a crossplatform engine that didn't start out exactly for this limitation and then expanded to other platforms like the DeltaEngine which crosscompiles to others not to XNA (so it limits all others down to the xna limitations which are significantly more limited than what Unity has to bear anywhere else ... I would say even more limiting than flash molehill and thats already extremely limited.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  13. CkSned

    CkSned

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    I doubt this will happen. Microsoft already have a program out for people to develop games on windows.
     
  14. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Yeah they said it wouldn't happen for xbox too.

    Business is business. If windows mobile ever took off and became a serious contender to apple, then I am sure money would change how things looked.
     
  15. Dreamora

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    It hasn't happened for Xbox either.
    Unity does not support XBLIG / XNA targeting only native code XDK
     
  16. techmage

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    You will only be able to develop for the RISC version of windows 8 with C#?

    I know windows phone 7 mobile OS is c# only but in saying Unity will only need to support the RISC version of windows, Im refferring Windows 8 RISC, which if not at version 8, then at some point down the line will probably become MS's mobile OS. Which I can't see any reason why windows would make C# the only language able to be run on Windows 8 RISC.
     
  17. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5

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    So you're saying Windows Phone 7 is already a dead-end OS? I haven't seen any announcements from Microsoft about that.

    --Eric
     
  18. techmage

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    Well I do not not know, this is all suspicion of course.

    But after seeing this video about Windows 8:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I

    Microsoft is making Windows 8 more like a mobile OS. Already Windows 8 RISC will be Microsoft's tablet OS. Microsoft seems to have the aim of making Windows 8 lighter, more usable on touch devices, and usable on RISC platforms. It's my personal suspicion that Microsoft just pushed Windows 7 phone OS out the door because they needed to get a mobile phone to the market ASAP, and could not wait for Windows 8 RISC. But really Microsofts ultimate goal is to have their desktop, mobile and tablet devices all running essentially the same Windows 8 backend, just with a different UI front.

    I suspect this because it'd be easier for MS to have just Win8 development going instead of Win8 RISC + Win8 mobile development going as something completely different, why would they keep their Phone OS seperate from their tablet OS if essentially their supposed to be doing the same? Also, Microsoft seems to have the tendency to always do what is easiest for developers, and try to set it up so developers have to jump through the fewest hoops possible. And making it so an app could be run simoultaneously on Win8 desktop, Win8 Tablet and win8 Phone would be the most beneficial to developers.

    Think about this as well. If Windows 8 RISC is going to be on all Microsoft tablet devices, why would microsoft make it so you can develop something for their tablets that won't also run on phones or pocket-sized media players? Certainly this is to compete with Apple, and a Tablet is intended to be something that does everything the phone or pocket sized device does, just on a bigger screen. In order for Microsofts Tablet and pocket sized devices to have that relation, the pocket sized devices will have to be Windows 8 RISC... or something further down the line thats based on Win8 RISC.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2011
  19. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I do think there will be future revisions. MS aren't so stupid as to lock in every programmer to c# and not C++. Apple failed/gave up trying (objC) and android failed/gave up trying(Java). Waiting for windows to do the same.
     
  20. Dreamora

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    Mango is in development and Mango Beta 2 in devs hands and on their devices, its by far no dead end.
    I also don't think that Win8 will replace WP7, win8 will fill the major gap that MS has shoot in their leg the past 4 years and thats the lack of a tablet usable OS, cause WP7 is not suited for it and Win7 Tablet is a joke, a very bad one actually.
    But like Google they will keep their phone and their tablet OS seperate in the favor of offering targeted solutions not the "1 wash half arsed" approach that iOS went by which makes the iPads so kids gadgets from the productivity and functionality point of view due to the lack of the other 50% of the relevant tablet functionality (I have iPad1 and 2 and love them, but they will never ever compete with a real tablet or something like an Acer Transformer, not even in its dreams)
     
  21. a n00b programmer

    a n00b programmer

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    I am a windows phone 7 developer. It would be really great! The two would mix so perfectly!
     
  22. Eric5h5

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    The problem is they don't mix at all; please read the earlier posts.

    --Eric
     
  23. WinningGuy

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    I think the "mix so perfectly" was just the whole wishful thinking thing. I would love to be able to create WP7 games using the Unity Editor, regardless of what engine was running underneath. But alas...
     
  24. Dreamora

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    very wishfull cause the engine under it will always be unity :)
     
  25. a n00b programmer

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    I wish it did. But, the world is full of wishes...but barely any of them come true. Ill just cross my fingers, toes, etc that they're might be a way...Probably won't though.
     
  26. a n00b programmer

    a n00b programmer

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    Um, I thought you can use C# to program though...C# is used in windows phone 7 programming. You would just need to create a unity3d library.
     
  27. Dreamora

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    'just' ;)
    you realize that nothing beside the scripting in unity is done in C# and .NET at all?
    the 'just' is basically 100% of unity as the .NET aspect is only a binding towards the native code engine below it with a few exceptions that are really implemented on the .NET layer

    While WP7 only accepts C#
    And thats not the only problem. the other is that it has no directx, its only XNA and XNA is not remotely as powerfull as DirectX
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  28. jashan

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    It would still be a really smart move of Microsoft to simply embed Unity into Windows Phone 7 oder Windows 8 (with UTs help, of course, I know that "simply" isn't as simple as it sounds). That would solve the issue that their OS kind of sucks and I'd be very happy to develop for them immediately ;-)

    Unity FTW!!! :)
     
  29. Kilah

    Kilah

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    So you guys know.

    Herb Sutter made a comparison on a conference (http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/BUILD/BUILD2011/TOOL-835T). He said first generation smartphone devices were more about managed code (except iOS), Android was pure Java, and Win7 was pure C#. Second generation move for Android was to create NDK, iOS didn't move and that we are missing Microsoft next generation (mango is not). Also he was very clear the whole conference that efficiency is the key for mobile devices power consumption, and native is key to efficiency.

    Pretty much, to me what he meant is: Microsoft will eventually have a NDK for Windows mobile, most likely Win8.

    I might be wrong, but to me he was as clear as he could.
     
  30. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Call me an idiot, but why did they infest their platforms with managed and slower code? was it some sort of vague notion it would attract developers? Cos soon as I got my iphone a few years ago I immediately called into my C++ code and ignore objective C. Pretty sure most developers would prefer that.

    Regarding C# on windows 7 phone. Does it not accept a static lib? thats all unity wants.
     
  31. Dreamora

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    For the same reason they want to do it on the desktop and WinRT is the first step, the next step will be any removal of native code without MS signing in Win9 - later than planned (WinVista was meant to replace the WinAPI with pure managed and enforce managed to be the standard and anything else to be executed in a managed sandbox): SECURITY and STABILITY

    This is the same reason why Apple brought up the Mac AppStore and I would suspect that 10.7 indeed might be the last incarnation where you get applications out to the platform in a broad form (that means in non code form for others to compile) without signing / verification as MS and Apple have better things to do than hire dozens to hundreds of engineers to fight the growing malware and hacking problem which is backed by users barely capable to do more than pressing the power button (ie users that should not be granted the right to even access the internet for their own security, their CC and for the rest of the inet security wise) and they can only be protected by transfering the verification to someone with the knowledge of doing it. Antivirus is not the way to go, it was only a temporal workaround to a problem that needs to be solved at the core of it.

    Anyone who has not gotten these 2 points from C# / Java over native hacker languages has missed one of the 3 fundamentals on why modern languages, especially modern managed languages are favored ;)

    Look at apple. they got it too thus the strong focus on ObjC and the 'only using the API' which basically forces you to use ObjC work against objc libraries only which has exactly the same consequence on stability and security :) And no, that its an extended C does not make it exactly faster, its a duck typing language that even offers managed memory handling, its commonly equal if not slower than C# on AOT actually, even more so with WP7 JIT as microsofts compiler and VM is a few steps in front of mono.
     
  32. g00niebird

    g00niebird

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    We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.
    - Carl Sagan
     
  33. Dreamora

    Dreamora

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    you don't need to know a lot about science and technology. But the windows course for dummies and a corresponding course for osx should be required to get a 'internet user license' required to go online with anything but a smartphone with a verified environment. (lucky that more and more of these users are going to chrome books, tablets and smart phones which beside the android are save by definition)
     
  34. n0mad

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    Totally. I only have notions of C++, but I'd have absolutely no hesitation to dig into it if it was the base language for smartphones years ago, before Unity came to my attention. Obj-C is still at a "learning book on my shelf" phase nowadays.
     
  35. Krysalgir

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    Is there some kind of ActiveX in WP7 ?
    If so, it may be used to play Unity Webplayer apps, like on the Microsoft Surface
     
  36. Dreamora

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    No there is no ActiveX

    There is XNA if you want HW graphics, the normal application framework is a modified Silverlight 4

    Also there are no plugins anyway as with any mobile platform so the activex wouldn't even be of use even if the world largest security hole were supported cause you can't install it ;-)

    And even if plugins worked and activex would work, unity would still not run. I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated but THERE IS NO DIRECTX ON WP7, THERE IS XNA ONLY and unity does not support XNA at all, its no graphics api, its a pseudo middlemans API with all kind of consequences as it severly limits what you can do


    Also it makes no sense that people hope for MS to integrate the Unity engine cause it still would not run. Again, there is no DX.

    If you want to go to WP7, learn the Delta Engine or learn C# and XNA and do it yourself. That are your two options, the same 2 you also have if you want to go to the XBox flop market place widely known as XBLIG
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2011
  37. g00niebird

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    I just tried to get to the Unity Community 5 different ways.
    I finally got here.
     
  38. Krysalgir

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    Ok. No ActiveX. Only XNA/Silverlight.
    got it ;)