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Official Unity 2023.3 coming April 2024 with updates for graphics and performance

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by LeonhardP, Aug 21, 2023.

  1. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    Why should developers throw all their energy into switching to a new version instead of releasing new content? What do you say to the players? Sorry, you'll have to wait, are we moving to a new version?
     
    retired_unity_saga likes this.
  2. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    What are you talking about. If you released it, you have revenue and you can pay. You want to release a game made with Unity and not pay Unity anything?
     
    DragonCoder likes this.
  3. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    Only 5 times more, good price increase (no)
     
  4. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    If your released game can't make 1600$ in a year after being released for over a year already... Or if you can't spend that time upgrading to 2023 LTS and not pay -anything- until you reach 200K$.

    Then I've got bad news for you.
     
    bugfinders likes this.
  5. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    Tell that to the Rust developers for example
    or Escape From Tarkov, at the same time, ask why updates to new versions are slow and infrequent
     
  6. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    You mean the multi-million$ developers who are already paying for Unity Pro can't afford Unity Pro?

    What?
     
    DragonCoder and bugfinders like this.
  7. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    You can look for what these "multi-million$ developers" said about Unity, for example the Rust developers said that Rust 2 will not be on Unity, if you had a business you would understand more, but you are just from those who download the new version first of all without thinking about stability
     
  8. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Did you get out of bed the wrong side?

    As I read it KamiCSPS said so those who are currently paying for pro are saying they cant afford it.. and you launched into how he (/she/they) cant have a business and just download a new version? how how did you make that assumption?
     
  9. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    which group?
     
  10. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    So my team and I paying for Pro and me being a Unity developer as my career for over 13 years is not serious?

    I don't care what Rust developers say - they made their millions already. They made those millions because of Unity, not in spite of it. So they can cry me a river.
     
    DragonCoder likes this.
  11. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    I think the millions they made and Unity aren't that closely connected, Unity is a tool.

    Yes engine choice might make the game making experience better / worse / fun / whatever, but that's about it.
     
    Ryiah, jjejj87, DevDunk and 1 other person like this.
  12. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    I don’t believe developers who say that they can rewrite a large project with a bunch of mechanics in a year from, relatively speaking, the unity 2018 version to 2023 lts, simply because these projects may be in release or just being developed, and most likely they will focus on content production and support. This shows your incompetence
     
  13. Lemur8063

    Lemur8063

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    I'll stop arguing, it's pointless, have a nice day
     
    DevDunk likes this.
  14. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    moving from unity 2018 to 2023 is for the most part a smoother ride than say hopping over to unreal and needing to recode most of it in c++. Having done freelance work transcribing from one language to another (computer languages not human ones) you would be surprised how much 2 or 3 people can do in a short period of time if thats their dedicated role. Plus, of course, not all things need to change.

    so, I would whole heartedly agree its no easy task, and the smaller the team the harder it becomes I think because you have less parallel tasks going onk or maybe dont have the funds to hire a few freelance program transcribers to on the fly convert for you, but if you look at the picture of companies who said "we quit unity" and are expecting to be back on track some in days (that sounds small), but months .. they feel confident in their choice. So, maybe its a you and me thing, maybe we dont think we can, so its harder to imagine someone else doing it.

    I would say, even players have heard of this unity episode, so, if you needed to convert to new engine, rewrite from scratch almost, i think a lot of them would understand if no new content came out until you were done.
     
  15. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    That's a gross oversimplification of how development costs are calculated. The tool (the engine) plays -the- crucial role in being able to deliver a product. In terms of effort, time, cost - no matter how you cut it. So no, it's not about the 'experience', it's about how much 'effort' it takes to deliver that experience.

    I am not arguing if it's worth using Unity or not compared to other engines. Only that those two examples @Lemur8063 mentioned have successfully delivered their games using Unity (calculated in Millions$ of sales). And the game engine, Unity, is a non-neglectable reason of what enables that success.
     
  16. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    But they don't have to! They are already paying for Unity Pro. What you're saying is that developers who are not paying for Pro have to do it and it's unfair. You're contradicting yourself at every post.

    Also I'll argue that if they are on Unity 2018 then they are more than overdue on their technical debt planning. The "they have to pump more content" excuse doesn't fly if you hit a wall. We dedicate a non-negligible % of our time and budget to manage technical debt - which includes engine upgrades.

    Not taking that into account, no matter the engine, is just being naïve.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2023
  17. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Development costs is not the same as "they made these millions because of Unity".
    Okay, and another tool can't also fulfil that purpose? It seems bad to start a big endeavour and have everything hinge on a single tool outside of your control.
     
  18. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    The whole argument in this thread is about costs. It costs too much to pay for a Pro license. It costs too much to build a game with Unity. It costs too much to upgrade to 2023LTS.

    So yes, it's about costs. If, because of Unity as their choice, it wasn't profitable for Tarkov or Rust developers to continue in spite of their millions of revenue, I would be very interested in hearing their arguments. If you want to talk about the experience Unity delivers versus other engines - that's OK but it's another subject.

    ---
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2023
  19. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Are we talking of migrating without switching to an SRP?
    Since that would be the only hurdle. Unity is really highly backwards compatible.
    And even if you would switch to an SRP, a huge amount of time in dev of large games goes into balancing and getting mechanics to feel just right.
    Things you don't gotta worry if you port the version. So there's much time for the graphics in a year.
     
  20. RudyRG3D

    RudyRG3D

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    Are there, by chance, going to be any new tools from Weta integrated within Unity for this release? This is a really big thing for me, especially with the amazing technology that Weta has - improvements in Rigging and Animation within Unity is something that would be much appreciated. Thanks!
     
  21. Whatever560

    Whatever560

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    I do agree with @KamilCSPS, 3 pages of most people probably using unity for over a decade and yet a lot of mistrust and nothing of a healthy debate.

    Anyway as a software engineer myself I can see how the Unity devs themselves are :
    1. Doing what they can with what the have (Might have less cash than some competitors)
    2. Trying to add new content to keep competitivness and innovation up
    3. Trying to maintain in parallel several LTS and Beta versions.
    4. Make difficult decisions like this, adding a new tech version and postponing the next LTS although they wanted to reduce the number of versions.

    There might be a way to think about how to reduce the strain on the 3rd point. Multiversion management is hard, you end up with cohorts of people not having the same issues nor features. (urp/hdrp anyone ?)

    Reducing the number of release and having clearer expectations on each was a good move. (Alpha/Betas cripled with bug but new features, Tech releases to fix the new features, LTS to clean up the mess once a year)

    Moving most of stuff to plugins seemed also a good move as you could decouple and add more stability in the long run + open source parts.

    Removing all github like issue tracker was not a good move. Your own issue tracker is rejecting me since forever, we should at least be able to make pull request.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
    Qleenie, AHambrick and KamilCSPS like this.
  22. altepTest

    altepTest

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    facepalm to me.

    the date when the updated terms of service was already announced in this thread, April 2024

    and I was loosing my time waiting for any unity stuff to show up on that thread they locked up.

    new rules starts with 2023.3 so it is logic that they will not release the TOS before the date when this version is released.

    the complete lack of respect from unity, just say it don't let us talk for 70 pages bumbling around then act annoyed and lock the thread because is "off topic" when there was nothing off topic there.
     
    Nest_g likes this.
  23. Nest_g

    Nest_g

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    I agree, the work of Unity moderators is remove the comments that violate the forum rules, but in this case they are closing all threads that they not like, if moderators cant make their work then close the complete forums section, is absurd that Unity users need go to Reddit or other forums to talk about the new Unity licensing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2023
    futalihua and hopeful like this.
  24. jjejj87

    jjejj87

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    Can someone clarify if the new rev share ToS apply to 2023.1?
    For example we are on 2023.1.20 now, in 2023,
    but let's say 2023.1.26 releases on Jan 2024, is that still under old ToS? or the new ToS?
     
  25. What is not clear about this?
    Correct me if I'm wrong but this means the first unity version under the new ToS will be 2023LTS and after that every future versions regardless of it's a tech stream or beta or whatever.
     
    Trigve likes this.
  26. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    Seems that the new release schema for 2023.x is bringing some extra pain for the users; features are not backported anymore to "2023.1.x", as I guess the just released "2023.1.20" is the last version. 2023.2 is still in beta, though.
    I reported critical bugs in spring, they got fixed in summer in 2023.2, but backport to 2023.1 never happened, and now status changes to "won't fix". This is a bit of a mess. I hope some wonderful features are still coming to 2023.3 to give some sort of justification for this extra pain, but I somehow doubt that this will be the case.
     
    Unifikation likes this.
  27. DevDunk

    DevDunk

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    I think often happens/happened that a beta fix won't be ported to a tech stream if it's a lot of work, as in a few weeks/months the beta will become the new tech stream.
    No backports to LTS would be a lot worse.
     
    DragonCoder likes this.
  28. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    I could understand, if not the backports where in work for several month already as stated in issuetracker, and then changed to "won't fix" now. Something seems not too work correctly currently in the workflow, and my best guess is that it's due to the extra tech stream.
     
    Unifikation likes this.
  29. DevDunk

    DevDunk

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    Yeah the won't fix is weird. Could you link the issue? I'm curious now
     
  30. Qleenie

    Qleenie

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    https://issuetracker.unity3d.com/issues/cant-rebuild-hair-using-hair-system-in-the-player
    https://issuetracker.unity3d.com/is...ommand-arg-release-when-it-runs-out-of-memory
    https://issuetracker.unity3d.com/is...en-the-high-quality-line-rendering-is-enabled

    Since today, 2023.1.x was removed from public tickets. These bugs basically make the feature "High Quality Lines" unusable in 2023.1, where it was introduced. Only chance to use it is to go to 2023.2 beta once the fixes land there.
     
  31. DevDunk

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    That seems like normal flow of development on tech streams. That's why they are there. To give a preview before providing a long term version, while the alpha and beta phases are done.
    For more updates move on to the next tech stream or lts
     
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  32. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    We even have staff members state as much from time to time. That said they usually keep updating a tech stream until a new one has been made available and the next one is still in beta. I'm thinking this is either a difficult bug to fix or it's just very low priority.

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/upd...or-software-terms.1513604/page-2#post-9460481
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2023
  33. Jaimi

    Jaimi

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    So with the Unite announcement, is it correct that Unity 2023 LTS will now be Unity 6, and timeframes remain the same?
     
  34. DevDunk

    DevDunk

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    I think so yeah
     
  35. hopeful

    hopeful

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    Yes, you amazing seer of the unknown. Unity 6.
     
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  36. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    Actually am surprised they haven't called it Unity 12. After all there were 6 major versions since the old Unity 5. Unity 6 will be the 12th.
    Guess #5 is old enough that none would assume the next to be the direct successor at least.

    Good decision to take out the pressure of releasing every year in every case.
     
    DevDunk likes this.
  37. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I wonder at which of the 2024 versions the URP will start on its final stable beta cycle towards a final release that will not break the code anymore.

    As we stand URP is not even in Alpha yet, as it changes constantly, forcing things like replace blit with Blitter, convert every render feature to the new render graph breaking every single project using custom URP image effrcts, removal of direct camera rendering function and many more breaking issues and changes.

    Is there a plan to release a stable finalized URP version sometime in 2024 ? I think this should be the top priority, so can move to URP as a finalized stable platform, like BiRP is currently.
     
  38. DragonCoder

    DragonCoder

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    The BIRP is kinda only stable because technically it is deprecated.
    Technology progresses and thus there may be breaking changes every now and then. But you are not forced to update all the time.
    Take .e.g the 2022 LTS and stick with it.

    Btw. Unity just had a neat live stream on the relatively new set of URP examples:
     
  39. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    I think with BiRP the API was about same across many versions, e.g. i still use the same commands since unity 5.6 to do image effects, with URP this breaks every other version and sometimes inside a single version. And still BiRP image effects are much faster in performance.

    It is not now and then, they break everything and redo the backend constantly. URP imo should at some point go to a Beta with a final backend so can be tested also properly with a complete and concrete feature set.

    E.g. when the Render Graph releases all URP image effects will stop working completly. This is not a minor update either, requires endless hours of work if use many effects.
     
  40. KamilCSPS

    KamilCSPS

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    Unless you have projects that need to span multiple LTS versions, it is not the case if you stay on LTS.
     
  41. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Except this can very commonly happen with console releases.
     
    AcidArrow likes this.
  42. CodeRonnie

    CodeRonnie

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    So, I wonder at what point Unity will abandon and deprecate URP and SRP for a completely different way of rendering.
     
  43. hopeful

    hopeful

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    Before they're fixed. lol
     
  44. JasonB

    JasonB

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    I find it just... very fitting that I upgraded a project to see how it fares in 2023.3 and my frame rates halved. For the "graphics and performance" update.

    Tracked down the culprit, and it's because DLSS (or any form of dynamic resolution) doesn't work anymore. It appears like it might be working, but in actuality it's just rendering frames at the full resolution no matter how you jiggle the settings.

    I look to see if this is even a known issue, and nope. Same story as always, stuff is broken and Unity doesn't know about it and thus won't fix it even though everyone in the community knows about it.

    I can't really do anything but laugh anymore.
     
    Starburst999, hopeful and bugfinders like this.
  45. Tautvydas-Zilys

    Tautvydas-Zilys

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    Any chance you could give us access to the test project you're using? We tested it and it seems to be working on our end. We suspect we're missing some crucial step to reproduce this.
     
  46. Starburst999

    Starburst999

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    I just updated to latest 2021 LTS and `ScalableBufferManager.ResizeBuffers` is broken on iOS (UUM-24634), have to revert to 2021.1, every unity release is a roll of the dice of what is broken and regressed, every platform I need to pick a specific version because any update I get either worse performance (missed vsync, etc.) or something is broken.

    You need to battle the bug reporter because again it is a roll of the dice if you are going to get someone competent and not have your bug closed with a reply that clearly show they didn't read a thing in the report. And when you get it on the public tracker then it months / years before it is fixed (if ever).

    My wish for Unity 6 is that they freeze any new feature and focus solely on getting everything stable and perform well on all platform (60 fps with no vsync drop on a simple project, is that really that hard to ask to a company with this much capital and employees?).

    They have a fantastic product that's why it is so disheartening to see.
     
  47. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    Not just me then..
     
  48. AlgorithmicKing

    AlgorithmicKing

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    can i disable unity logo in unity 2023 ln personal plan or free plan?
     
  49. VentaGames

    VentaGames

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    I think yes, but starting from version 2023.3.
     
  50. bugfinders

    bugfinders

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    i thought this year it was gonna be 2023.4 (aka 6)
     
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