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Unity Unity 2017.4 LTS is now available

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by superpig, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    I believe there's finally been some resources allocated to overhauling the whole Issue Tracker and making it all make more sense in a world with multiple release streams. I'll pass a note onto the relevant people.
     
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  3. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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  4. Deleted User

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    I linked the wrong bug, apologies! The bug we have come across is when trying to apply changes to a prefab. We have reported this as a bug through the in Editor report a bug feature.
     
  5. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    Could you give me the bug number? "trying to apply changes to a prefab" is not a very reliable way to look it up for you.
     
  6. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    How does Unity decide what fixes get backported from 2018 and what is left broken in the LTS? I get lots of responses to bugs that are basically "This is fixed in 2018, you should upgrade." If someone could tell me for a fact that the LTS version will never fix any of my bugs for its two year cycle, then I won't even bother with it and will switch to 2018. If the bugs WILL get backported or fixed, I need to know roughly when. I feel like everyone here needs some clarification around this, not just me. Is the team is making conscious decisions to never backport certain fixes because it would require too much code from the 2018 codebase? Is there any way to figure out which fixes are off the table?
     
  7. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    So the main issue is "how risky is this change?" Larger fixes are usually higher risk just because they're touching more code - though one-liners can be very risky too, depending on where that one line is. There are absolutely some changes that do not get backported because the risk is just too high, especially if the issue can be worked around. The most effective way to minimise risk from a change is to not accept that change.

    It's important to note that as part of this, we do not backport fixes to LTS by default. Occasionally the developer making the fix will proactively backport it (usually because they already know that it's affecting customers in the LTS line), but in general we do not even begin to think about backporting a bug until someone has asked for it. As such, if you're filing a bug report and getting the response saying "This is fixed in 2018," and you want to see it in the LTS, please do respond to QA and ask if the issue could please be reviewed for a fix in the LTS branch. Explain how it affects your production so we have a better idea of why the risk is worth it.

    The answer might still be "we reviewed it and it was too risky, sorry," but it also might not. (Sometimes the right thing to do is not to backport, but to come up with a different fix for the LTS branch).

    This is not an ideal workflow, we are aware - improvements are hopefully coming.
     
    makeshiftwings likes this.
  8. Ethan_VisualVocal

    Ethan_VisualVocal

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    This is extremely useful to know -- we'll make sure to be proactive about requesting a backport that we need.

    Also, I understand and agree 1005% that just blindly backporting everything is not the smart way to maintain the LTS branch either.

    But, it sounds like commenting on an existing "Resolved" ticket isn't enough? We have to recreate a repro project, and submit a new bug report? I understand you also don't want a flood of useless "Backport this fix, because I think it might be my bug! Oh wait, I was wrong." nonsense, but that's still a very expensive barrier to getting backports.
     
  9. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    This is good info, but it makes me wonder who the LTS branch is for. There is always a risk in updating to the latest version of Unity for a bug fix because it always contains new features which cause new bugs, and I thought LTS was supposed to be a way to avoid that. If there's no way to know if your fix will ever get backported, then it stops LTS from being a "safer" option and devs are left having to gamble on which version will be more stable.

    Also, if fixes don't get backported by default and we have to poke someone to get their attention, I definitely think there should be some sort of system in place other than just sending emails to support... a voting system like you have for the dev branch would be good. A lot of my emails just get ignored, which is understandable, since I would ignore me too if I was being annoying. ;) A voting system where we could see if other people are having the same issues and get a rough guess on whether a fix will make the cut would help immensely when trying to decide which branch to use.
     
  10. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    You mean commenting on the public IssueTracker site? Unfortunately not - while we do sync the comments from the IssueTracker site through into our internal bug tracker, they don't cause a bug to be reopened - and it's not as simple as "just reopen the bug then," we have to establish a process for who to assign it to, how to reverify it, what to do if our repro case is fixed but people are still saying the bug exists, etc. The team responsible know that there's still work to do in this area.

    It's not quite that simple. Neither branch is a guarantee that any specific bug will be fixed - we do not offer any guaranteed way to get a bug fixed, not even to our enterprise customers. We work on fixing bugs and we tackle what we can, but we can can't make ironclad promises about any specific bug, and even less can we do so for 'bugs in general.'

    What we do offer is a choice about how much risk you want to be exposed to, by choosing how you want us to work: do you want us to be moving the technology forward (giving you new stuff, but with a higher risk that we break things that screw up your production), or do you want us to focus on fixing critical issues and otherwise minimising change (so you get many fewer fixes, but with a much lower risk to your project). I say low risk, not zero risk - as noted, we cannot offer anything that comes with a guarantee of no problems.

    Does that clarify things? Effectively I'm saying: it's always a gamble, but it does not have balanced odds.
     
  11. makeshiftwings

    makeshiftwings

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    Yes, that's fair. I still think having a separate issue report and voting system for LTS would make this easier for Unity users. Sending emails asking to backport a fix and getting no response at all doesn't help anyone make decisions. If there was a public way to see if anyone else out there cares about the same fixes then we could at least make educated guesses on which ones might get backported and which won't.
     
    dri_richard likes this.
  12. superpig

    superpig

    Quis aedificabit ipsos aedificatores? Unity Technologies

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    We're not planning on a separate system, but yes, we do recognise the need for users to be able to express "this issue affects me and I'd like the fix in the LTS please" through a better system than emailing us and asking.
     
  13. Bdelcast

    Bdelcast

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    Hmm Today's ( or yesterday's ?) LTS 2017.4.14f1 update seems to be offline.
    I've checked a few times and I get the same message.
    it takes me here:

    upload_2018-10-26_13-37-45.png

    I'm sure it's just a small hiccup, but i'm letting you guys know.
    Thanks.
     
  14. AdamKane

    AdamKane

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    When is Unity 2018 LTS due to release?
     
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  15. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I assume when 2019.1 is officially released, or similar time frame I imagine since it can't really be LTS if there's nothing replacing it. But, semantics (I don't think it's long now).