Search Unity

uMMORPG Official Thread

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by vis2k, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. goldbug

    goldbug

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Posts:
    694
    I don't understand, you would rather we didn't fork HLAPI and leave it abandoned for ever?

    Unity is giving written permission and even encouraging people to fork it and modify it to make it better. When the author gives you written permission to modify the code, you are not pirating it at all.

    Also, it is not like we are profiting from it. HLAPI CE is completely free.
     
  2. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    @yellinglionstudio @paul I suppose we can use the HLAPI CE thread to discuss Telepathy and HLAPI benchmarks. @yellinglionstudio if you still think we are wrong then please let us know on that HLAPI CE thread and how to reproduce your statements.

    Let's keep it to uMMORPG here to not stress out our moderator friends too much.

    Since this part is uMMORPG related:
    I never tried any of the uMMORPG community addons myself because I am too picky about using other people's code, as anyone working with me on HLAPI_CE will happily confirm :)
    So the probability that I stole someone's code without even looking at it is slim.

    If you think I stole someone's code in an addon, then please provide the place that I supposedly stole. And please give details on the ban that you mentioned, otherwise it's just vague acquisations.

    So back to topic, uMMORPG Progress: I have 3 smaller bug reports on my ToDo list, which will be investigated and fixed (if reproducable) in the next couple of days.
     
  3. MrIconic

    MrIconic

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Posts:
    176
    I would rather he stops focusing on debating with you and continues to work on his products.
     
    letscodestuff and chiapet1021 like this.
  4. nxrighthere

    nxrighthere

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2014
    Posts:
    552
    One of the biggest problems of TCP is that it's not designed for transmission of time-critical data. TCP is a stream protocol, consider a scenario where the client is sending player's input at a high update rate. When a packet is lost the whole stream will stop until the packet arrives after being resent. On top of this, the server/client eventually will receive outdated information, and the more packets are lost, the more problems and awful behaviors will occur. In the multiplayer games with fast-paced mechanics, only the most recent data is acceptable. The data should be delivered (or not) as fast as possible. So no, TCP should never be used in games that are based on time-critical data.

    TCP is acceptable only in games where you can circumvent latency and the data stalls.
    Yes, it is. The data will be sent immediately instead of being buffered until it will worth to send.
     
    nirvanajie, Vincenzo and moco2k like this.
  5. Vincenzo

    Vincenzo

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Posts:
    50
    I also would also disagree with the statement made by vis2k that UDP is having problems with lost data and that is the reason to go for TCP, what a bollocks, the network libraries that are around (including LLAPI) have systems in place to re-transmit lost packets if send over "reliable" channels.

    I have a big sence of, why re-invent the wheel?
    There are at least 6 network libraries ready available to plug into unity, instead you build some TCP socket library yourself on C# sockets, very nice and all but is it really nessisary?

    perhaps in MMORPG, TCP makes sense because things have to happen in order and reliable, and you don't care about network delays and holdups as nxrighthere explains.

    in FPS or really any fast paced game this is not the case however, you need to only care about latest data, player state updates, and for events that HAVE to happen you can throw them over the reliable channel.
     
  6. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    All of the libraries in nxrighthere's benchmark are UDP. I don't see anything wrong with having a TCP option in there too.
    UDP is having problems with lost data by definition. This is how UDP's default unreliable channels work, and since Unity's new LLAPI will be fully unreliable, it will have data loss problems too. LLAPI has reliable channels, but they aren't 100% reliable either.

    It has an All-Cost-Delivery channel, which might be 100% reliable, but I don't see the source code so who knows. I highly doubt that using LLAPI + AllCostDelivery is any better than using TCP, because that would actually be reinventing the wheel.

    If you like UDP for your FPS game, then feel free to use UDP.
    I decided to use TCP for my MMO game (hence the name of this thread).

    It's not like this is some completely insane thing to do either. Two of the biggest multiplayer games of the last decade are using TCP too: Minecraft and World of Warcraft.

    Again, I don't want to get into a full on UDP vs. TCP discussion, as we might as well start arguing about C++ vs C# next. I just wanted to have a decent TCP option and now there is one.
     
    nirvanajie, Hatfield and goldbug like this.
  7. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Big thanks to all the uMMORPG supporters. Here is our poster, I will frame this and hang it into my room:
    ummorpg1800px2.png
     
  8. Hatfield

    Hatfield

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Posts:
    8

    I am convinced that you are some kind of real life wizard.

    Thanks man, your work, and that of other contributors, is absolutely invaluable. It's amazing to have such a real shot at getting a stable morpg out there.

    I've been doing this as a hobby for many many years, and I've used dozens of engines and kits, big and small, and this kit coupled with unity has by far been my favorite.

    Keep it up. :)
     
    runningbird likes this.
  9. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Thanks mate.
     
    Hatfield likes this.
  10. tequyla

    tequyla

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Posts:
    327
    Hello vis2k,

    what do u plan concerning the audio part : homemade system or pick a tools from the assets store ?

    and i m little bit confused about the network solution, what is included in ummorg 1.128 ? Which we must use ?

    i must choose lts 2017.4.7f1 or 2017.4.9f1 ?


    +++
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  11. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Audio will be home made. Just a few sounds and simple Audio.Play scripts.
    uMMORPG is on 2017.4.7f1 right now so I recommend that one.
    Networking is confusing because we are in the transition period. For now, simply use HLAPI CE (see my signature) and you'll be fine.
     
  12. tequyla

    tequyla

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Posts:
    327
    ok thanks.
     
  13. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Update: V1.129 released:
    upload_2018-8-24_15-43-5.png

    This version now works with the HLAPI CE Telepathy version, which will at least double CCU.

    Enjoy!
     
  14. iSleepzZz

    iSleepzZz

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Posts:
    137
    Hi vis2k, I have a lot developed already (changed from the original uMMORPG code) and I was wondering about this new network update with Telepathy.
    Is this going to require major changes to the game's code or just simply start using the new "HLAPI CE Agnostic" to my Unity?
    Also, next question, in your benchmarks here:
    Code (CSharp):
    1. uMMORPG V1.129 Benchmark
    2. UNET LLAPI: 16 FPS
    3. Telepathy: 36 FPS
    Why is it measured in Frames per Second? Isn't this new "Telepathy" for the networking? That won't get you better FPS will it haha? I'm alil confused :p Please help me out! Thanks.
     
  15. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    News: we are running our next community stress test today, targeting 200 CCU worst case, everyone broadcasting to everyone else.

    The test will start 1-4 hours from now. If your computer can handle a few clients then please join our Discord: https://discord.gg/2gNKN78 and come to the #community-test channel.

    We need a lot of people!

    Edit: we ran 207 CCU, detailed results can be found in the documentation!
    195 ip removed.png



    Requires 0 changes with current uMMORPG V1.129. Just replace the DLLs.

    Networking benchmarks are on the repo site: https://github.com/vis2k/Telepathy
    That frames per second benchmark was interesting too though, hence why I posted it.
    UNET's LLAPI seems to be really slow when calling Receive. Telepathy is a lot faster, hence FPS improvements too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    iSleepzZz likes this.
  16. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    News: uMMORPG is moving away from UNET, because Unity officially abandoned it.

    mirror_icon_500x128.png

    There was no decent MMO Scale networking solution for Unity yet, so I made my own.
    => uMMORPG V1.131 now runs on Mirror & Telepathy.

    Mirror is now a drop-in replacement of the previous HLAPI Community Edition. Make sure to read the announcement.

    Here is how to update V1.130 to V1.131 manually:
    (Don't panic, if you have trouble upgrading please let me know and I will help you.)


    ---

    When I started working on uMMORPG in August 2015, UNET was simulatenously the coolest and most buggy networking solution that I have ever seen. There were so many random bugs, like 'Failure generating network code', 'ReadStringOutOfRange' , broken SyncLists, broken SyncList Hooks, all of it.

    UNET was not my responsibility, but choosing UNET for uMMORPG was. I apologize for all the networking bugs that we had to deal with during the last three years. I should have forked HLAPI from day one.

    The good news is that uMMORPG is now fully vertically integrated. With Mirror & Telepathy, we now have control over 100% of the Networking stack. There are no more bugs that we can't fix. We will never have to beg other people again. No more DLL replacements to get stable code.

    Big thanks to @goldbug for figuring out all those Weaver issues.

    From now on, if you download uMMORPG from the Asset Store, you will have stable, high performance MMO Scale networking by default.

    After over 300 bug fixes, we can finally move on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    Mark_01, nirvanajie, Hatfield and 9 others like this.
  17. iSleepzZz

    iSleepzZz

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2012
    Posts:
    137
    Great scheisse vis2k!!!
    Loving it :)

    So, would this latest update be stable enough to starting building my mmorpg on?
    Or should I wait? Are you planning on making other big changes soon that I should wait on before I make my game?
    Let me know what you think! Thanks :]

    edit: Should i revert back to unity's default dlls before I use the latest 1.131 ummorpg to use mirror+telepathy ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  18. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Yes. Any new networking bugs can be fixed now, there is no more big 'black box' risk anymore.

    I recommend 1.131 with Unity 2017.4.7 LTS + Mirror
     
    iSleepzZz likes this.
  19. goldbug

    goldbug

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Posts:
    694
    You don't have to. If you already have HLAPI CE, you can keep it. Mirror and old HLAPI CE do not interfere with each other. In fact, this is the setup I use for working on Mirror.
     
    iSleepzZz likes this.
  20. TonyLi

    TonyLi

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    9,996
    nirvanajie, tequyla and Hitch42 like this.
  21. Hitch42

    Hitch42

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    97
    Awesome! I'd love to see more established, reputable asset creators make addons for uMMORPG and uSURVIVAL. I could never pull the trigger for the unofficial ones. I already own Dialogue System and Love/Hate, and I'll purchase Quest Machine because of this addon.
     
    TonyLi likes this.
  22. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Just to be clear, TonyLi's addons are unofficial. We are not working together, he just wanted to advertise his addons on the uMMORPG thread I guess.
     
  23. TonyLi

    TonyLi

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    9,996
    Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I believe someone had asked if they were compatible with 1.131+, so I was just answering. These are unofficial but supported by Pixel Crushers. All support questions on them should be directed to me or the Pixel Crushers forum, not to vis2k.
     
    vis2k likes this.
  24. Hitch42

    Hitch42

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    97
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that these were official. But it is nice to see some cross-compatibility here in the "official" Asset Store.
     
  25. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    No problem, just wanted to avoid any confusion
     
  26. MyNameJeff22

    MyNameJeff22

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2016
    Posts:
    26
    Vis2k I did as you asked sent you my invoice number via discord weeks ago and i still am not verified and im muted in all channels and dont even have access to read most of the channels. Ive messaged you multiple times asking as to why and I cannot get a reply on discord. so im asking here in the public forum now. please get back to me on this matter asap.
     
  27. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    You are in read-only mode in discord and I think you know why.
    Please continue working on your game, you have all the information that is necessary.
     
  28. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    News: starting today, uMMORPG is part of the Humble Bundle Unity sale for the next 14 days!



    You can grab it for $15 and parts of it go charity! uMMORPG will never be as cheap again, so grab it while you can.
     
  29. freedomkalonline

    freedomkalonline

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Posts:
    6
    i want my 80 bucks back you criminal
     
  30. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Why do you want them back and why am I a criminal again?
     
  31. gurthy

    gurthy

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2015
    Posts:
    1
    @vis2k I already have a license to uMMORPG. Right now I am prototyping solo. If I grab the humble bundle, is there any sort of redemption period for the uMMORPG license? My thought is to purchase a license to give to a team member when I bring them on.
     
  32. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    I don't think so. After buying on humble bundle I recommend getting the asset store voucher and then saving it. Never heard of them expiring.
     
  33. MegaCo

    MegaCo

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Posts:
    75
    Can I use uMMORPG to make a single player game without the multiplayer stuff?
     
  34. RonnyDance

    RonnyDance

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Posts:
    557
    Two questions to the uMMORPG community and vis2k:
    Now that uMMORPG is not using UNET anymore how are the integrations of other Assets working?
    I mean Assets like Emerald AI or other ThirdPersonControllers will always use the Unity Default for Networking which still is UNet as I can see. So how will the Integration work than? For me it seems that it will get harder to get other assets working with uMMORPG.
    I was not able to join the Discord community (I will to this tonight) but do Community Addons for Assets like Enviro and Emerald AI or other Unity Assets exist?

    For me those Assets are essential to work on a good MMO, same like a good TPC Controller to get fast combat working like in GW2 or Tera.


    Are you working on a Dungeon / Raid feature? I saw that you have a Party feature but what about 5 Man instanced scenes? You mentioned that you created the NetworkZones addon for that. Because when I have a party I want to do stuff with them. Sometimes alone for example in an X-Man Dungeon. You mentioned that you created the NetworkZones addon for that, so your Addon will handle this?

    I am very curious about multiple scene loading with uMMORPG because in your demo I only see one "big" scene. What about uMMORPG loading multiple scenes for different CCU? Using your big scene and entering a house which is also a seperated scene etc? How is this handled right now? Is this possible out of the box without using your Addon? Will your addon only instance them and give the opportunity to host them on a different server? I mean one server can handle on scene with lets say max of 50 CCU and also 3 scenes for a max of 5 CCUs. Can you define and do that?

    Yes you can, as I understood :) Lot of reviews posted that.

    Thanks a lot
    Ronny
     
  35. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    You can run it in Server&Play (aka Host) mode. That's pretty much singleplayer. And if you enable NetworkManager.dontListen then others can't connect to your computer either.

    Mirror is still 99% compatible with UNET. You should be able to modify any third party asset that works with UNET and make it work with Mirror by simply replacing the 'using UnityEngine.Networking' part with 'using Mirror'.

    There is a NetworkZones addon yes. It's still experimental and it's not instantiated for groups of people. But it could be.

    Right now NetworkZones loads each scene in a different server process and connects them with teleports. So you can use that to double/triple CCU.

    As for max CCU - last time we tried 207 people (see documentation) in a worst case scenario, everyone broadcasting to everyone else. That worked. I want to try 500 CCU next time, but we will need a bigger map and a lot more people. That was all on one scene by the way.

    In other words, I doubt that you find so many players for your game that you have to worry about CCU any time soon.
     
    RonnyDance likes this.
  36. ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Posts:
    222
    Is this not actually worthless to everyone who buys this? Are they not getting scammed without proper education?
    Developers do not support these and apparently do not have to as per the rules of both Steam Store and Unity so why bother?

    If a 100 people need support are you really going to help them when they bought this?

    Is any dev realistically? I thought about getting it for this asset but then I realized that when it's too good to be true, it really is.
     
  37. uni7y

    uni7y

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Posts:
    287
    I know for sure @vis2k is gonna support you 100% when ytou buy this and I think all other devs will do the same... I even think that devs sign up for this kind of special deals but I'm not sure on that :)
     
  38. Lylek23

    Lylek23

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Posts:
    54
    Get it.
     
  39. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    Why would they get scammed? The humble bundle gives you $1500 worth of games+assets for $15. uMMORPG alone costs $80 on the store otherwise.

    I am sure the people who never used Unity will need to learn the basics first if they want to use uMMORPG from the bundle. Maybe they don't even want to do that though.

    The people that do want to use it will figure it out. It's only 6000 lines of code, and after 3 years we didn't really have more than one or two people who couldn't grasp it. I try to keep everything as simple as possible so everyone can understand it (and for maintenance / stability of course).

    Feel free to join our Discord (see my signature). If 100 people need support then they get support. Obviously I can't hand hold 100 people through their MMO projects, but I can help if there are bugs / issues that they can't figure out. And our community is very friendly, everyone helps each other out all the time because we have the same goal. People come in, need help early on, and then a few weeks later they help the new people that come in too. It works really well.

    By the way, only a small fraction from the humble bundle customers will ever use uMMORPG and not all of them join the discord all at once. So far I can still support everyone.
     
  40. tequyla

    tequyla

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Posts:
    327
    what is Humble ? is it oneshot payment or monthly subscription ?

    i aggree, ummorpg for 15 bucks with others sutffs is very very very great great deal !
     
  41. TonyLi

    TonyLi

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    9,996
    This Humble Bundle purchase is a one-shot payment that gets you regular Asset Store voucher codes for the assets listed in the bundle. You can also purchase a subscription on the Humble Bundle website for other things, but that's unrelated to this Humble Bundle offering.

    Having gone through all the code for vis2k's uMMORPG and uSurvival, I can say that it's some of the most straightforward and concise code I've seen on the Asset Store.
     
  42. uweenukr

    uweenukr

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Posts:
    53
    Bought the bundle and without even reading the Documentation I jumped right in. Figured whats a few hours wasted fiddling around? Its been a couple days now and I have hit no serious issues. Unlike MANY other Assets from the store that don't even work after you Import them. I was able to heavily edit this package to fit my needs and its working great. I love how things just make sense.

    If I never installed uMMORPG or any of the other Unity Addons even the games would be worth the $15. If nothing else give a few bucks to charity :)
     
    vis2k likes this.
  43. ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    ThermodynamicsMakesMeHot

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Posts:
    222
    I hear that..whats 15 bucks in the end for all this with or without and if it's done as well as everyone suggests then support won't be needed a whole lot as it seems big enough community behind it.

    On that note...going to become one of the 50k + people who picked up this bundle. Imagine if just 1/4 of those need support on something all on one day (not just this but any asset).

    One could say that these assets are so refined and polished that they stand on their own and will require little to support even in big numbers.
     
    Lylek23 and vis2k like this.
  44. Lylek23

    Lylek23

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Posts:
    54
    If you're referring to those who have not yet learned Unity, then it is possible that many will jump in head first and find that they have too much to handle. But it is not a scam. Feel free to set some assets aside, as to not get overwhelmed.

    Overall, even if publishers did not support those who purchased the bundle (which, one: is not true; and two: how would they even know?) you easily get enough resources that I promise you, you can figure out at least $15 worth of it, and it would be worth it, lol. ;)

    And to keep my post on topic, this asset alone is easily worth the $15.00. :)
     
    vis2k likes this.
  45. DonMitchel

    DonMitchel

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2018
    Posts:
    2
    At first, sorry for my english. :D

    I bought uMMORPG asset before 2-3 months for full price. Yea, I was little angry when I yeasterday saw this pack on Humble Bundle, where is much more than just uMMORPG, for only 15 dollars.

    But after few second I realised that the full price wasnt for this awesame asset, but only support for his creator vis2k.

    I bought that pack and used uMMORPG voucher, so I have uMMORPG two times on my Unity acc. :D (I saw only one asset in my folder, but one was bought and second one is from voucher... so DOUBLE support for vis2k! :D)

    And the reason I write it. How can anyone claim to have been scammed? For 15 dollars you have gained an incredible amount of content. Be happy and enjoy it! :D

    Peace
     
    HeadClot88 and vis2k like this.
  46. Lylek23

    Lylek23

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Posts:
    54
    Hey there, I have been using uMMORPG for my project and am trying to get a working UWP build, however I keep receiving this error when trying to host a server:

    "UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path C:\[PATH]\build\bin\x64\Debug\AppX\Data\Database.sqlite is denied."

    Anyone have any idea how to solve this?

    No build errors from Unity. No build errors from Visual Studio.

    PC Mac and Linux Standalone build works properly.

    I have been following this guide: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/uk...05/porting-your-unity-5-2-game-to-windows-10/

    Thank you!
     
  47. vis2k

    vis2k

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3,341
    I never tried UWP, but you will get the same error if you try to start a server (or server & play mode) in WebGL because WebGL can't access files on your computer.

    So the solution is to disable everything except the 'Login' button there.
     
  48. Lylek23

    Lylek23

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Posts:
    54
    Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately I am using a custom NetworkDiscovery component for a LAN setup, and would require players to have to option to Host.

    With that said, really no worries if this turns out not to be possible, as UWP is certainly not the preferred platform for an 'MMORPG' (as far as I'm aware). ;)

    ..I'll keep tinkering with it though. Thanks!
     
    vis2k likes this.
  49. Shawn67

    Shawn67

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,196
    @TonyLi!! Imagine seeing you here! I noticed you have integrations for uMMORPG for Quest Machine and your dialogue system. I didn't get a chance to look for to see if you had one for Love/Hate too? Also, you mentioned uSurvival. Does this mean you are going to make integrations for your assets for it as well? Gotta love with asset publishers collaborate! :)
     
  50. TonyLi

    TonyLi

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    9,996
    hopeful, Shawn67 and Hitch42 like this.