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Official Try the new HDRP scene template

Discussion in 'High Definition Render Pipeline' started by pierred_unity, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hi Everyone,

    We are excited to share our brand-new template for the High Definition Render Pipeline (HDRP), which helps beginners get started with multi-room lighting setups, physically based lighting intensities, and much more.



    You can run the HDRP template on your machine by downloading Unity 2020.2 and starting an HDRP project in the Unity Hub. Create a New Project, Select the High Definition Render Pipeline template, and hit the Create button.



    We also encourage you to stream the template from the cloud using Unity’s Furioos cloud platform – you only need a web browser! This template requires mouse and keyboard inputs, and your session time will be limited to 5 minutes.

    You can read this blog article to learn more about why we made this new template, what’s new, and how it was created. We hope you will find this new template educational, and we look forward to seeing how you experiment with it.

    PS: I've also prepared for you a cheat sheet with important lighting and exposure values, in order to light environments in a physically correct way. It contains light intensities and color temperatures for common types of lights, as well as exposure values for different lighting conditions.



    Cheers,
    Pierre Yves Donzallaz
    Technical Art Manager
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  2. soleron

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    I like the new scene although if feels kind of "last gen". Lacks sharpness and material microdetails.

    I love the new light UI it's going to help a lot of people. Thanks for the cheat sheet.
    The way you have used decals instead of a dirty texture is interesting, because it shows how many decals one can use without getting a performance penalty. I am typically worried and use less.

    Sorry to be nitpicking, but the new scene has some small issues here and there.
    Being a sample from one of the world's best game engines, one would expect it to be flawless.
    Hit play, stand in front of the entrance, on the platform, and look back at the wall behind the sphere.

    upload_2021-1-24_3-52-1.png

    You will notice a round shadow on the wall. I assume this has to do with the shadow distance setup.
    One can also see the shadows not properly formed inside the building while standing outside.


    The "wet floor" does not really look right. Feels more plastic/wax than wet.
    Under normal conditions this area would be more like a very reflective mirror.
    upload_2021-1-24_4-8-48.png

    Last the camera controller feels quirky.
    If you meant to provide this as something we could also use in our projects it needs more love.

    I highly recommend this free controller.
    https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/input-management/first-person-all-in-one-135316
     
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  3. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey, thanks for the feedback!

    Regarding the shadow bug you're experiencing, please create a bug, this issue isn't known and might be hardware or driver specific. It's quite an obvious one. ;)

    For the "sharpness", we would have happily delivered a template with 4k textures, high resolution reflection probes (hence lower smoothness on some glossy materials like the puddles), and many more highly detailed props, but size had to be limited drastically to 100 megabytes only. Please read this for more details: http://on.unity.com/3s62EGH

    The main purpose of the template is to offer good lighting and exposure setup for beginners, and not necessarily offer the most highest resolution assets.
     
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  4. newguy123

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    Is that Furioos example suppose to work on mobile or only desktop?
     
  5. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey, desktop only, for now.

     
  6. newguy123

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    OK Thanks. Would be good to get something that works on mobile as well as desktop as an example, otherwise the powers that be (the boss) will never be interested in this kind of tech and will find it even harder justifying it to clients...
     
  7. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Thanks, we might add support in the future.

    For clarity, Furioos can run on mobile, and receive mobile inputs, many apps already do so. It's just that we didn't do it for this hdrp template yet and focused on the desktop experience.
     
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  8. newguy123

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    Does Unity have ANY example of this in Furioos ready for both mobile and desktop, using high quality graphics?

    I know it's possible, the issue is showing the boss an example...
     
  9. soleron

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    Furioos is streaming not a real time engine. The same page should work on mobile too.

    Of course you have to make sure that your controls and UI if any work on mobile as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  10. newguy123

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    Yes I know it works. The point is an example is easier to understand for management (that is not techinically minded), than just the ramblings on of a technical person without "proof"
     
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  11. soleron

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    Since you know it works, then the existing examples should be enough for the purposes you require.

    Unity has made 2 such examples. One with this template and another with a car showcase.
     
  12. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    Not sure why anyone would ever resist what newguy123 is saying. Listen to him. Make a demo with swipe touch screen controls. Profit.

    Selling a service? sell the service, don't expect customers to do it before you sell it. The kind of attitude where customers have to demonstrate, is not impressive to me.
     
  13. soleron

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    Selling is a skill.
    It requires imagination and the ability to activate the imagination of others.
    Some have it some don't. Some can use their imagination, some don't.

    The examples that Unity offers already show a more complex requirement being fulfilled.
    (Especially the car example https://blogs.unity3d.com/2021/01/2...room-sample-template-and-volvo-xc40-recharge/ )

    Someone with an imagination and minimum understanding of what a UI is, can extrapolate that since the more complex requirement is fulfilled, the lesser requirement can also be fulfilled.

    Other people need spoon feeding. Spoon feeding while detestable, is also crucial in the case of a hard sell. Unity often fails at that. Assumes that all the people who can see an example can do things, that they are not necessarily able to do.

    Such is the case with the VR support of Unity... they assume that an architect or an engineer who is not a game developer is able to create a basic thing as a teleportation system, or a material switcher. They are not. This is not what they do, and they do not care to learn it. If you want these people to prefer your solution you need to understand their requirements and resolve their blockers towards attaining the basics. A similar problem is the removal of the Quality and Screen settings menu, because there were many people who were disabling it. Sure, but there were also tons of people who were using it.

    The teams that create these templates and samples often fail to understand that in the same way that someone who sees the Desktop example of the Volvo showroom or the HDRP template in Furioos can't understand that it can also work on mobile.

    It's not their job to help these people. Their job is to create something within specifications. Someone whose job IS to sell Furioos, should have been involved and tell them that this also is a requirement. It's all about synergies and often in the case of Unity it appears that they are not happening.
     
  14. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    OK, thanks. But the fact is Unity needs to sell a new service (and not a cheap one), not the customers.
     
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  15. soleron

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    Absolutely. But ultimately the question is, why do we the users care about what Unity needs to sell?

    We should care more about what great tools are there for us to use.
    I care more about the sloppy execution in everything for instance.
    Makes me spend time to fight the engine quirks instead of publishing my content.

    I think Furioos while interesting it is not a very good investment anyway. (Or at least premature). Unity has made a few such purchases. Maybe they needed to burn money for some reason. I also think that they are deliberately neglecting WebGL in order to promote the use of this new service which is not a good thing for the users at a moment when WebGL would make great sense. But this is an entirely different discussion.
     
  16. jjejj87

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    Pierre, I am sorry but this demo scene is just missing the point. It is pretty much the same thing as the last one. I am deeply concerned about these repeated happenings...
    • a demo scene should be able to demonstrate what HDRP can do
    • a demo scene should be able to tell a lot of workflows
    • a demo scene should be able to show what HDRP can't do
    • a demo scene should be able to serve as a common platform to share/report bugs on.
    The new demo scene does very little in this respect. What could this new demo scene do that the old one can't? I mean, it adds VFX and IES and that is pretty much it. I am not saying the old one was enough - but, if you are going revamp something, then really do it, and make it useful for development.

    And really, this demo scene looks last gen...if you were going to make it for eye candy, then at least you could have made it look next gen.
     
  17. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey,

    Did you read the blog post explaining why we updated the sample, the process behind it, as well as the limitations in place? https://blogs.unity3d.com/2021/01/07/explore-learn-and-create-with-the-new-hdrp-scene-template/

    It is a 100 MB template scene that teaches users how the volume framework is used for indoor/outdoor or multi-room setups, as well as using a correct lighting and exposure setup with the physically-based principles found in HDRP. And it offers a good starting point for people to test and validate their assets in multiple lighting conditions. There are also multiple presets we offer for light baking, as this is often a sticking point for users. We're also preparing a tutorialized version of the template, to explain the key concepts and features in HDRP for newcomers.

    The former template had none of these. So, I don't quite understand why you'd think the new template does very little. It might not be helpful to you if you're already very familiar with HDRP and all its complex photographic concepts, but there are many users, the majority, who struggle with these (regardless of the engine used). Even professional cg artists struggle with these at times.

    It's also not meant to be a showcase of every single HDRP effect either, nor a next-gen demo, it was never sold as such. The Heretic demo or the Book of the Dead demos are maybe what you're looking for, but these demos/asset samples from these are several gigabytes of data, not 100 MB. ;)

    In case you have more precise suggestions and feedback, please feel free to forward them to us, we can certainly take them into account for future versions or other templates. For instance, we're aware the template can be painful to delete if one frequently creates new HDRP projects: we've already taken a few steps to mitigate this and the distributions of templates will be improved eventually. :)

    (Also, why did you say the template adds IES? none of the lights use IES profiles. :confused:)
     
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  18. soleron

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    @jjejj87 To be the devil's advocate, and while I agree with you to a certain degree, I think they got self-restricted by the size limitation... 100MB is ridiculously little in 2021. It could at least be double that much. And I agree, that despöite all this exrtra modeling work and it really shows few things that the previous one didn't, however I did learn one or two things out of it. i.e. That we can use copious amounts of decals without serious performance penalty. Or reflection probes. Also it includes some nice examples of how to use the new features that were not so obvious. i.e. using different Lightmap setting files for different levels of production instead of constantly changing your values, and now I use these as presets. (I am happy to see they validated the way I work with Lightmaps too so they very nicely into my workflow)

    At the same time, I got a bit disappointed by how little was offered in terms of reusable scripted functions. These demo scenes are opportunities to offer useful functions to the layman. To all the designers engineers and architects that may make use of Unity for the first time. In that sense the old Simple camera script was more honest and complete than the included FPS controller...

    Last but not least, yes, above all, this demo scene appears very last gen... :( Perhaps with a 100MB limit they should have gone for something less, that would be more. It really feels like it undersells HDRP. It can look so much better.
     
  19. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Glad that you learned a few things, that's the exact point of the template. Indeed the probe setup is also something tricky, especially with the reflection proxies.

    Obviously, we'd happily worked without this 100 MB limitation, but these are the reality of development, you have to work within existing limitations. Also, the bigger the project, the longer it takes to import, so that's also a consideration to keep in mind.

    If you think it undersells HDRP, I really wonder how you felt about the previous template. :D
     
  20. soleron

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    :D The previous template was not HDRP specific but it did demonstrate an efficient setup which I find very useful to begin with. I liked how to the point it was. Just enough to grasp the SRP basics.

    The new one while more "grand" is a bit spread out and does not push any particular aspect of HDRP forward. Except perhaps the ability to be efficient too. Which is something some people misunderstand about HDRP. It can be light and performant too. It's not URP but there are some cases where you can use it just the same.

    You imposed the 100MB limit to yourselves, I think you shouldn't have.
    Obviously a template/demo should not be a full GB drop but you could easily get away with a 250MB demo scene and pack more value and shine in a smaller space.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  21. jjejj87

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    Look, I kind of feel bad because pretty much every criticism I throw at HDRP eventually ends up at one of the threads you are in, so I hope there are no personal feelings involved.

    But I seriously think the new template is step in the wrong direction.

    For example, having a 100mb template is a bad idea as no HDRP project will ever be that small. Like you said, maybe we can elect to install templates and then maybe have more useful template/demo scenes

    I welcome practical tutorials, but really the volume framework, given how simple it is, and the exposure settings is
    pretty much covered by the table you provided. It is really simple stuff really...I don't know why you seem to think professionals find it hard? It is pretty much standard stuff...

    Also, you mention that it is not meant to be next gen, but let's be honest, the blog post and the presentation screams quality until you actually load the scene and see it for yourself.

    I'd rather not go into further discussion as you guys think one thing and I think another.
    But like you said, you guys say you want feedback, that was mine.
    Sorry I can't really agree with your view, mate.
    Maybe your next iteration will be more suitable.
     
  22. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    No offense taken, we're here to listen.

    You clearly seem to be an expert user, so I can totally understand why you think this educational template is not useful at all. You were not the demographic we targeted for this template, which concentrates on the basic HDRP concepts. ;)
     
  23. newguy123

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    Well in regards to quality, it would be useful to have a template setup for Raytracing with everything enabled, WITHOUT any baking, without light probes, and without reflection probes.

    Basically raytracing stuff only. I know Raytracing is still in preview, but a lot of us work in visualisation and dont care about the "game" type stuff. Also turnaround times are tight and the reason for looking towards realtime raytracing is because we cant afford to sit and wait for typical offline traditional renders with VRay, Redshift, Corona etc. If we have to sit and place reflection probes, light probes and deal with the typical "game" trickery of making something look good, then that defeats the purpose of having a fast workflow.

    A typical game takes months if not years to complete with multiple people. We dont have that luxury. In visualisation, we have a couple of DAYS in which to complete projects, typically with a single artist (that has no programming experience)
     
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  24. AcidArrow

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    What am I supposed to learn from how the lightmapping is set up?

    To give up on having non-wasteful atlasing? To stop trying to make sense of the lighting settings?

    These are some of the most wasteful lightmaps I have ever seen:
    upload_2021-2-19_16-3-59.png

    Lightmap parameters are switched to Default-HighResolution even though that does absolutely nothing for the GPU Lightmapper. <- What is the lesson here?
    upload_2021-2-19_16-5-18.png

    And here I guess you are teaching people to be over reliant on the filtering. Why are you using both denoising and gaussian? Just denoising does the trick, the only thing the gaussian filtering does in this case is destroy even more information and make the already very inefficient lightmaps contain even less information.
    upload_2021-2-19_16-10-7.png

    If the lesson I'm supposed to take here is that Unity's lightmapping tools are terrible, then lesson learned.

    If the lesson is supposed to be something else, then it doesn't come through. Really.

    The angry bots demo scene from a thousand years ago was much better than this.
     
  25. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Thanks, I agree, the auto UV packing is not optimal at all. Improvements to the system is on the radar (no ETA I can give you though).

    We could indeed do our own lightmap UVs instead in the meantime to mitigate this issue, maybe for a future iteration of the template. ;)
     
  26. chap-unity

    chap-unity

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    While it can be interesting in some ways for non-game/real-time applications, I think it would give the wrong idea on how ray tracing effects are supposed to be used in a real time games.

    While some ray-tracing effects (like reflections or global illumination) completely overrides on screen some "classic" rasterization feature (like Screen Space Reflection, or Lightmaps...), they are still entangled with raster techniques as a fallback.
    Because these ray traced effect have a substantial cost, most of the time you will use Ray Trace Global llumination for one additional bounce, or use Ray Traced Reflections for materials that are fairly smooth (over 80% smooth for example). To have a nice result outside those parameters you still need to have some carefully placed reflections probes / light probes or light maps baked.
     
  27. Ruchir

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    The Multiple Importance sampling produces really inconsistent results right now in this room which isn't really that dim-lit.
    It's not really usable without the Gaussian filter:(
     

    Attached Files:

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  28. Ruchir

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    Also, does unity have support for specular surface creating reflection??
    Because I have these strangely(artifacts I guess) lit sections of the wall which look like the reflection from shader ball HDRP Light map 1.png HDRP Light map 1_Baking.png

    Btw these are the same without "Multiple Importance sampling" as well and the standard High-resolution settings
     
  29. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey, thanks. I just tested 2021.2.0a5, and I don't see this blueish tint with "Multiple Importance sampling" turned on or off, in the first room. The spherical things you see in the first room are just reflection probes that haven't been rebaked yet.

    One thing I just noticed, however, is that we have a bug with the reflection probe not getting captured correctly with 2021.2.0a5 (black walls). This might explain some of the more visible transitions between reflection probes that you see. If you use 2020.2, there will be no visible artifacts. I'll report this issue asap.

    upload_2021-2-23_15-40-44.png

    Btw, you might want to give your feedback regarding the lightmapper in this section of the forum: https://forum.unity.com/forums/global-illumination.85/

    Just as a reminder, the version of Unity you're using is an alpha, not recommended for critical development. ;)
     
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  30. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Btw, I also see you're using Optix as a denoiser. Based on my results in this scene, it tends to create more colored patches in the indirect area, this might explain some of the artifacts you noticed (and the odd blue patch on one of your images). Up to you, but I would stick to OpenImage denoise, at least for this template.

    Each denoiser is trained with different sets of data and will have slightly different behaviors, so they all look a bit different depending on the situation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  31. Ruchir

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    I had to rebake all the probes myself, but especially for the one reflection probe in the hallway connecting the last two rooms, it wasn't getting baked at all
    It was just pure sky background being shown
     
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  32. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Yes, this issue has been reported as well a few days ago. The black probes *might* be a different issue. Thanks!
     
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  33. altepTest

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    I've upgraded my project from an older version of unity that didn't had this scene setup, to a version that does have it. How can I import/recreate this scene in my project instead of creating a new empty project?

    if there is no option to do this, fine, but I wanted to test how my assets look in this scene without too much hassle.
     
  34. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey, with the Unity hub, create a new project using the HDRP template.
     
  35. altepTest

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    No, I know that, I wanted to have the scene imported in an existing project that I have upgraded to the latest unity version.

    The project was created as HDRP and had the old default scene, the construction area. Was thinking if there is a way to import the scene in the existing project but probably I should just copy them from a newly created project
     
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  36. Ghost_Interactive

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    hey, maybe i am asking a wrong Q in wrong section .. sorry for this.
    is there any to do something like this in HDRP (Material over ride / Custom renderer)
    could not find anything until yet.
     
  37. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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  38. rktumuluri63

    rktumuluri63

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    Pierre,

    I am going over your latest video


    Much thx. Starting with the standard template and walking us thru is very helpful.

    Since Ray-Tracing is fundamentally a compute intensive operation and takes time, I started researching ways to do that on the cloud. It's been a few days of poking around with not much success. I posted a few of my experiences in this post.


    https://forum.unity.com/threads/uni...virtual-machines-windows-10-with-gpu.1126124/


    Would be nice if you can guide us on this as you did earlier. Your other video


    is also top-class and extremely helpful for newbies like me.

    With apologies for being repetitive I request you to post a video or provide clear directions for "Unity HDRP Ray-Tracing in the Cloud".

    Regards
    /rk
     
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  39. MathewHI

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    Hi Sir
    I want this demo but I converted my existing project to HDRP, I can’t start a new one now. Is there a way I can import this scene into my existing project?
     
  40. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Hey, yes, create a new HDRP project, then copy the assets over, from this new project to your current one.
     
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  41. dmitro1982

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    The good thing with HDRP - light and shadows looks good, and when I loaded CC3 characters they look almost as in original editor.

    The bad - my fps drops to 0.1 when I rotating camera to lights. My PC barely can run smooth new HDRP demo.

    The same PC can easily run UE4 demos with beautiful ligts and shadows with perfectly stable 60 FPS with default settings. Dont know why it happen, Unity supposed to be low end hardware frendly.
     
  42. hippocoder

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    You need to provide much clearer and more detailed information on what options are being used, how it's set up and so on if your intention is to get help. You need to provide a lot more information.

    If it's just feedback then I guess Unity will thank you for it and move on. I would suggest a bug report to see if there's something blocking you.
     
  43. Necka_

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    Hi,
    I guess it's because of its Beta status but in Unity 2022.1 Beta 1 the sample scene seems to be broken.
    Here is an example when entering Room 3 (and it's the same issue in previous rooms but not that crazy lighted up.

    The volume override seem to be like in previous Unity version.
    upload_2021-12-10_19-19-59.png

    Bumping the Limit Max from default 3 to ~8 just shows that it's really not properly setup for that version.
    upload_2021-12-10_19-21-20.png

    Did something huge change with HDRP 13 that would make the sample scene so wrong?
    I couldn't find a change log (it's goes up to HDRP 12 Unity 2021.2 only)

    I can live with the sample scene not working properly in this version as I explored it countlessly in 2021.2. I mostly get it installed for the nice Low/Medium/High HDRP Asset quality presets. But just wanted to report that at least.
     
  44. hippocoder

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    Seems exposure related. Perhaps the visual values do not match the reality. Does redoing exposure fix it?
     
  45. Necka_

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    As you can see on the second screenshot, this is with exposure settings that doesn't overblow the light. The models looks all wrong anyway
     
  46. AcidArrow

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    Did you bake the lighting? Last time I tried the sample scene it needed its lighting baked first.
     
  47. pierred_unity

    pierred_unity

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    Thanks for the report.

    To confirm the issue :
    1. Is it a project you create from the Unity hub?
    2. Which Unity version was it created for initially?
    3. Did you use the new Unity 3 hub?
    One thing that can happen is that the template created with version X of Unity doesn't always work perfectly out of the box with version Y, if you don't rebake the lighting, especially between major version changes.
     
  48. Necka_

    Necka_

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Posts:
    486
    Hello,

    First of all I would like to confirm a test from a previous user reply: I rebaked all lighting and it now works properly. But it wasn't working out of the box like with unity 2021.2.
    Now to your questions that produce the issue:
    1. Yes it is a project created from the Unity hub with the following settings. Note: I had to click download in the 3D Sample scene area on the right for that Unity version (once) upload_2021-12-10_23-51-50.png
    2. Unity 2022.1.0b1 (it's not a project copy it's a blank project only with the 3D sample Scene
    3. Yes, Unity 3.0.0-beta 6
    So in this Beta of Unity I can confirm that the lights were Baked but re-baking solved the issue.
    Maybe the Lightmap is corrupted in this version?
     
    pierred_unity likes this.
  49. Ruchir

    Ruchir

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Posts:
    892
    It does look like the lighting and reflection probe isn't baked, maybe the data got corrupted.
    Try clearing the baked data and bake it once more.
     
  50. yonatanab1

    yonatanab1

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2018
    Posts:
    43
    this does not work for me at all.

    for some reason, i cant open any project with the hdrp in it at all:
     

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