Things that piss me off about people that want to make FPS games

I take no political stand with my game, just want to be clear with that.

Though I understand if it can be hard for a AFA follower to play it

 

I think that's what I've been misunderstanding, and why I said earlier that I felt you were being gauche. The way I was brought up, it was with the idea that overly public displays of wealth are, well, gauche. "If you've got it, don't flaunt it", in other words. It's interesting, given the Jantelagen idea in Sweden, that that type of mind set is being questioned and opposed. That's a subject for a totally different thread, but I think I understand a bit more about where you're coming from now, so thanks again for your thoughts.

 

I'm a member of the . . .

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Ctrl + Alt + Del Group

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Only joking I have a mac so it is more like cmd + alt + backspace

 

Don't get me wrong though, I love classical class, new money is often vulgar, like the Spotify founder removed a house from 1800 to build a modern architech designed house, that's wrong.

But, like you say, that's a subject for another thread

 

Maybe I see more of his posts than you do, but I've had a clear impression for a long time that his income is from his non-games work, and his hopes for income from games is in the future, not now. Even in this thread he talks about how he's positioning himself for "when" VR goes mainstream.

 

None of it holds to scrutiny.

 

This. Just go read any of his posts in the programming discussions he takes part in. His advice clearly shows that he's an enterprise software developer.

 

he just said that above, though we all already know it, it's not a secret as he likes to brag about it or try to argue from authority. Although "feelings have no place in business," Anders has here redefined the term hobbyist to fit with his feelings of self.

Hobbyist, apparently, is a bad word. A word that must imply an air of lower-classitude, which of course is beneath our hero who has most definitely earned every nickel by nothing but sheer grit and genius. To be a mere hobbyist! What an accusation.

No, the reality that we are making games as a hobby (or at best, a failed and unsustainable business) won't do to be called that way. If I am successful in my primary business, how could I be a hobbyist game developer? Everything I do is professional, and anybody who disagrees with me is a mere plod.

 

Daniel Cook wrote a neat article for GamaSutra about this (and other) stuff.

This is talking about money coming from someone else, but I think it applies just as much to money coming from somewhere else.

Also of note in the article is discussion about what "success" really is from a business perspective. It's all introductory level stuff for anyone who's studied business, but many game developers haven't done that.

 

Bingo. This is literally the advice I am trying to tell people to do. Don't go into risky business on indie game dev. Figure out how ot pay the rent and buy yourself time. It's a dumb, stupid risk to take if you aren't coming into it with a good mentor or some other relevant background that thoroughly prepares you.

It's the dishonesty. This is what riles me to no end. Person who cannot admit reality when it's plain and obvious to see. It's even worse when they make the lies for themselves.

 

My advice to everyone, as it has been for a very long time, is quite simple: Don't become a game developer.

 

I know you are saying this halfway as a joke @Ony , but you know I think it is important skill in life -- not just in business -- to know how to do risk assessment. Certainly you can't run a sustainable business without a clear strategy for managing risk. That desn't mean nobody should be making games but you have to have a plan for the risk involved.

And yet here Anders is time and again displaying that he hasn't a notion of the term -- or at least does not apply it in the slightest to his hobbyist game adventures -- and yet he has the gall to be talking S*** on people who actually earn a living solely from game development. It's like a bratty child needing a swat on the head.

Two eyes, two ears, one mouth. This is a motto that must not be taught to rich brats in rich countries who think "commoners" are lazy people trying to steal their inherited wealth.

 

Honestly, after carefully considering the social environment that Anders is operating in (socialist Sweden) and how the discussion of wealth and standing is very different than it is here in the USA, I feel that I've come to a new understanding of why he says the things he does. Cultures are different, and although the Internet does its best to mix them all up into a tasty soup for everyone, the fact is that sometimes I have to take a step back and consider perspective. I'm choosing to view his comments in that new light, frankly.

 

I mean if we are talking about a primitive who has no notion of modern norms that's one thing. I can understand a difference in politics but come on, this is just outright arrogance and a refusal to read the environment, even when it's bashing on the head with clear terms. Over and over again. In the army we call it "non-learner" syndrome. Would get chewed up like a dog in a wolf pack. There's some alt-right natural selection for you.

well whatever. thats enough from me.

 

I think we are all guilty of that at one time or another.

 

yes, but how do we learn?

 

I mean I don't hate anybody here but come on it's annoying as hell, it's get on everybody's nerves, and everytime theres one of these endless anders arguments then everybody else gets all pissy too. It's pollution.

 

by making an FPS.

Ba dum tsss...

 

I will die before I make an FPS.

 

...why isn't the spoiler showing up?

 

(spoiler)replace brackets with square brackets(/spoiler)

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replace brackets with square brackets

 

I used the spoiler tag insert button. It's just not working for me.

 

Probably because you have no content between brackets.
(spoiler="Title of spoiler with content"]With content spoiler will show[/spoiler]

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With content spoiler will show

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There is spoiler above but not showing up, as has no content.

Spoiler: Add at least on character to show up

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What the actual hell.

I selected the text and then used the spoiler button. Now I can't get the bug to reproduce.

Whatever, the text is in the image.

 

I mean whoever gets clever real quick is gonna capitalize on the Toronto poo flinger and turn that into a game. You release it in next week while it's fresh on minds = instant millions.

Any of you write the code I will sculpt the doodoo.

 

If you can churn out a game fast enough to capitalize on a trend, it's far better to apply those skills to a title that'll have a long tail for better returns :v

 

Listen, we need solutions here not problems. I said I'll make the doodoo, now who's gonna write the code?

 

FYI for everyone interested in game dev and the answer to this threaaad and indeed life in general . . .

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Click me

 

Noobs using GUI's.

/SMH

 

yeah tell me about it

 

Your technical proficiency never ceases to amaze me Murg.

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We should totally be dating, I'll even take you out for some Fried Chicken and a soda pop if you play your cards right

 

cc: hippocoder, zombiegorilla, kiwiasi, bigtimemaster, martin_h, murgilod, ryiah, iamthwee ,Anders, Acid Arrow, Frosted
cc: Unity General Forums

 

I love this thread!

On the hobbyist remark. Companies test new ventures all the time, take google as the extreme example. They have thousands of ongoing projects, most that are scrapped.

Plus as a bonus everything i do/buy for VR is deductible expense

 

I donno wtf you guys are talking about - but in terms of 'the future of vr' - I've heard its best chance for widespread use is actually porn. VR porn is supposed to be super addictive.

Personally, I don't expect vr games to ever be widespread, my money is on AR > VR.

Even now, the only real breakout game in the 'xr' space has been pokimon go, which is an ar experience.

 

I think the future of VR porn is AR.

 

The future of VR porn is two people putting on VR helmets and then boinking while thinking it's just a VR simulation.

 

I don't know... All this talk sounds pretty hardcore to me.

 

Remove Virtual from Virtual Reality and you get the best way to consume sex

 

Yeah honestly that's true.

Just in general, VR is too 'high commitment' - AR will win because it will be more of a natural/casual experience.

The really awesome physical interactions in VR will also work just as well in AR.

In the big picture though - it's really interesting - back in the day I think people always thought of VR as being about 'existing in an immersive world' - but the real appeal of VR, what it truly does a better job with is actually just enabling a different kind of input system.

The real selling point to vr games is interacting with high detail elements directly with both of your physical hands. Instead of being 'huge immersive worlds' - its very small high detail physical interactions.

The headset itself is secondary - it enables the manual manipulation because you need more fluid camera control and both hands are busy with input.

 

Why?

Why?

What exactly do you mean with AR? Holding a phone in your hand that overlays its camera view with 3D rendered stuff AR, or 3D stereoscopic headset AR?

 

You would need ask, why watching videos, or even watching pictures is addictive. Including comics.
Now you add another dimension and let imagination flow.
You got new experience.

Because instead of predefined space by programmer, now things happens in your space, whenever you are.
Plus all above.

Plus you can probably easier connect remote devices (let your guess) with mobile.

 

I don't wanna get too detailed for a family friendly board, but I have a friend who uses VR purely for adult entertainment, he won't go back. It sounds kinda silly, but lets be honest - that's a huge, huge industry. Personally, i think live parasocial interactive adult content driven by ar will be a huge subgenre in the next decade. But again, let's not get into it in detail.

I mean 3d stereoscopic AR headset. Again, the real meat in VR stuff is actually in your hands. It's the physical interactions that are really what's sick about VR.

The headset itself is the enabler for the hand controls. It allows your head to be the camera control which helps to free up your hands. Mounting camera control to your head enables quick high accuracy camera movement needed for detailed manipulations of objects in space.

People expected it to be the other way around, that it was the deep immersion that would be the main appeal of VR, but in practice its the high detail interactions with your hands that's really the draw.

 

With the context of this conversation was this an intended pun?

 

I'm hoping for "yes".

I don't want wild speculation based gut feelings, ideally I'd want statistics with large sample size and conducted by someone without monetary interest to reach a conclusion one way or the other, but if we can't get those at least aggregated anecdotal evidence with a theory based on sound reasoning would be nice.

There is no friggin way they ever manage to seamlessly merge rendered content with the real environment, I don't see how you could get the kind of immersion with AR that VR offers, and the one VR offers is less impressive then I hoped for to begin with.

I can see that being true. I only have the Oculus GO, so I couldn't test that advanced hand control stuff out yet, but I could see that being the main draw.

So how long is it that that """friend""" of yours has had the VR headset? I could understand heightened euphoria in the honeymoon phase of getting the new shiny toy, but my """friend""" would consider vr porn less addictive than 2D porn because by comparison there's such a tiny amount of content in the VR section of the market. If you take out all the studios that film on the wrong IPD for your head, and take out the performers and themes that don't appeal to you, there likely are "only hundreds" of videos left. Compare that to the non-vr section of the market. The science behind porn addiction seems fairly solid by this point and the addiction mechanism is mostly driven by the coolidge effect. The VR market simply doesn't have the content yet to feed that the same way imho.
When I looked for stats in the past, I wasn't able to find any good data on whether VR porn is more or less addictive than non-VR, only tons of fear-mongering clickbait articles. Not sure if that has changed, but if it was super addictive to a majority of users, I would assume higher adoption rates as a consequence, don't you think?

Not sure about the AR part, but I think if high profile (Twitch) streamers could just put a rig on their desk that films and streams stereoscopic VR with binaural audio, I could see that giving a big push to adoption rates of low to mid-tier VR devices. I think the industry is sleeping a little in neglecting to enable content creators to feed the VR eco system.

 

i'm a teenager(should not tell you that) yea when i started playing video games i really wanted to make my own and i thought it was simple and quick but i wanted to make a galaga type game but i realized even making a simple movement script is hard af (to me it is) so i didn't give up and i started to watch tutorials read books talk to people physically i really wanna just be a programer i really don't care about art (given the fact i'm bad at it ) anyways this thread was quite helpful and its probably going to show a lot of teenagers

 

Pretty sure we're talking about business, not pleasure.

 

Dude, this isn't a convo for real/hard numbers. This entire thing is wild speculation. Current gen vr will remain a niche offering for enthusiasts.

For real crossover success, I think you need to wait until there's more general utility and a better form factor. For example, in some time AR will probably replace a lot of the market for physical screens. Not sure when, but there's no reason for physical screens.

I see AR being as pervasive and core to our day to day lives as having a phone is today, it's just a question of when.

IMO, VR will forever be a niche product for enthusiasts. It's just too high commitment in how you use it.

 

I guess the take-away is, never mix business with pleasure unless it's VR AR Porn.

 

Is nothing to gut feeling. Just look on internet with given discussed context.
If you in doubt, search for

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hentai

and its world wide popularity. You can scale accordingly to other media type. How far you want go with this topic on prove and statistic? Seems no brainier.

Ask @Ony if in doubt.

Is about different experience, different expectations. Other than that, I explained other advantages as well. Just highlight 'mobility'.

 

I don't often do puns but when I do. . .

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I consult @Ony