They're teaching programming in school now?

What do you think about this?

In the UK they have these plans to teach primary school (age 4-11) children to program computers.

Personally I think children spend too long in front of computers anyway.

But the real reason this frightens me is that in a few years all these people will take my job! It won't be a special skill any more. It would be just like learning to read.

Well I think I've still got a 5 year window where my skills are still worth something. Then I'll have to find the next "big thing" - maybe that would be something home-brew DNA manipulation - before that's taught in schools too!

 

How can a four year old learn to program when they have just learned to read, and add?

 

I feel like it would be more of a "this is what this is like" kind of experience rather than much of a real true training in programming... more like baby steps into the overall concept so maybe later down the road those children who enjoy the experience, can maybe try getting into a real class, that challenges them a bit more. But then again I have no idea what specifically your talking about but the idea of children trying out programming in general seems like it would work out as just a way to get them to see what it takes to make stuff happen on a machine.

Oh and we will be obsolete in no time regardless, be it children or college students of tomorrow, just gotta stay on the cutting edge I suppose to keep up!

 

Well, no one has taken my job yet. Let's put the technical aspect aside, because if you get it you'll always get it. As you've touched on, you need to keep your skills up to date, no brainer there.

I've got 30+ years of practical and 20 years of professional experience and no recent graduate is going to bring the benefits that comes with it. Besides, there's a lot more to producing quality production level software (and maintaining it) than the programming part.

 

How is that news, and then how is that a bad thing? They taught kids how to program when I was in primary school in the early 80's. Of course the languages were primitive LOGO, BBC BASIC and for the more advanced COBOL and LISP, but it's just simple logic puzzles really.

They also taught us basic electronics (yay, 9v batteries, mini light bulbs and switches), would that also be bad?

TBH the whole thing about kids spending too long in front of computers strongly puts to mind this penny arcade comic :

 

It's just news in the UK because previously all we learned in IT class was how to use a spell-checker and make spreadsheets. See:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25857276

 

Sounds like my school....

 

I was taught programming when I was a preschooler. As a result, I was able to code in Assembler when I was about nine years old, and I've been programming ever since. I knew I was going to be a programmer my entire childhood.
That being said, I didn't really spend any time playing with other kids. Many people would say my childhood was ruined, but it was quite the contrary. My childhood was awesome, because I got to spend it exactly the way I wanted.
I'd say it's okay to teach the kids how to decompose a problem, create a solution and solve it in a playful way. I hope they won't force the kids if they'll hate it though.

 

Well that's sad that they dumbed down the courses to just IT at primary level then. And good that they're seeing sense and bringing this stuff back. As I said when i was in primary school in the early 80's in London they were doing a lot more than that, of course the government hadn't yet called upon industry "experts" (read : Microsoft) to create the curriculum, and we were still given our daily milk in the classroom.

Children should have the opportunity to learn the skills associated with programming computers at an early age, it's an intrinsic part of modern life for the foreseeable future and if you want to generate revenue from it rather than just sitting playing games on it or endlessly surfing facebook then you need to get a little more savvy, otherwise you'll only ever be a consumer rather than a producer, and that's not just bad for you it's bad for the economy.

 

I don't think it's real programming, I think it's visual Scripting. When I was in school a few years ago they used to make the younger years use Microsofts Kodu thing to learn programming concepts.

 

Here in Italy even if you don't study computer science at high school they teach you programming for some years.
Of course people don't care about it as you're considered a nerd with no life if you like programming and computers in general, this country has the worst people ever.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Spark

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LittleBigPlanet_2

 

I had a short class in programming in 3rd grade, as part of a "Gifted" program for children who had high IQs. (In other words, they were bored in regular classes and needed more work to keep them occupied.) That kindled a love of programming in me that led to my current job title, "Senior Developer". It is probably the single most influential thing that happened to me in all my years of school.

Reflecting on that, I've often wished that kids were exposed to more things they might like, including programming, painting, music, wood/metal working, and many other disciplines. As it stands, they typically only get introduced to a very few things at school, and whatever their parents do for a living. They deserve to get structured exposure to more things.

So I'm glad that at least some schools have a plan to add programming to the early curriculum. I hope they add more things as well.

 

That's certainly a good thing. It's not like it will ever affect your job position. What they're learning is most likely a simplified version of real programming which only really teaches the basic principles. Like the Turtle graphics library that can be found in Python: https://docs.python.org/2/library/turtle.html

 

When I was in 3 grade we were first taught Visual Basic. As we progressed down the years, we were taught C and HTML. Never really had any sort of interest in those at that point of time. Kids at that age usually like to run and play around and don't feel the need to learn programming.

 

I read the woman they put in charge of it in the UK doesn't understand coding at all. Typical western gubmnt boondoggling at it's crony driven finest. I think it was at TheRegister I read that and the comments section was a hoot to read.

 

I absolutely refuse to live in fear of what some children learning (insert skill x here) will do to me in 20 years.

I wish them all the luck and opportunity in the world, as I do to each of you. The world is a harsh abusive place where its difficult enough to get by -- most especially with corporations looking to extract wealth out of us at the minimum wage possible.

Many young adults will exit university deep in debt and enter a job market with no openings for them , and then be forced to work at low quality service jobs earning minimum wages for a decade before finding a job that doesn't match their major (or their dreams).

I'm particularly sick of the United States trend of 'teaching for the test scores' and dropping all the other subjects that don't get "NCLB" funding.

We need well rounded humans with broad interests and a great base of skills and intelligence to form our future. These are children! If you can only survive by suppressing the future of children you should question if you are doing the right thing.

But really I suggest you stop worrying about what 6th graders are learning and be the best you can be - its really all you could ever do anyways - and will be a lot more productive than worrying about others.

 

Absolutely!!

 

<------ My avatars saying. "Run the sky is falling!"

I think it's always good to have a good dose of paranoia. Keeps you on your toes! And on day when the sky really does fall down. You can sit in your bunker with your 365 cans of tinned peaches and your spare tin opener wearing your tin foil hat (to keep off the cosmic rays) feeling smug.

 

Its a good thing, better and more useful than most of the other crap they force you to learn...

 

that's too bad.

Errrr... UK western? Sounds like your hating on... An educational program? And directing your hate... West?

I think regardless of who runs it, or how real to actual game design the course is, and who funds/controls the program are not so important, and all that really matters is kids are given an opportunity to learn something new, perhaps leading to them having a future thanks to it. I might be convinced otherwise if you provide a reference.

 

Kids don't want to learn *anything* at that age, if you look at it like that. However, I bet at least some of the kids in your class really took to VB, C and HTML and are continuing to work at things with it today. Moreover, there may come a time in your life when you need to whip something up real quick (and nobody else around you can), and those skills will help you be the one that can make it happen.

Had you been exposed to more things, perhaps one of them would have sparked a little light in you, and you'd be doing that today. Or maybe sports is just your thing, and always will be. That's fine, too.

I guarantee you that not all kids just want to go run and play all day. Some would like to sit down with a book or compiler just as much or more.

 

Nice boondoggling misrepresentation of the facts of the matter as I presented them.. I was speaking to putting a woman in charge that knows dick on a stick about programming. Typical western political cronyism if you check the linked article and read the comments from the IT pros.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/11/coding_in_schools_madness/
Why, when there are so many very experienced IT folks in Great Britain who could have headed the program?

That is what i was speaking to.. And the west? Yes. In Viet Nam they teach their kids advanced programming starting in primary school and by high school they can pass the Google interview exam
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/22/vietnam_kids_google_interview_pass/
In Russia you do not get out of high school until you can do advanced calculus and trig. And China?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/chinese_coders_best_in_world/

I rest my case. Maybe your school should have taught you reading comprehension and not knee jerking PC. I went to school in the "west" (Canada) when you did not have multiple choice answers coralling you into an intellectual corner of checkmark a box laziness and you did not get to the next grade till you passed the syllabus for the current grade. Kids are graduated from high school in the US who cannot even read.

"According to a study conducted in late April by the U.S. Department of Education and the National Institute of Literacy, 32 million adults in the U.S. can't read. That's 14 percent of the population. 21 percent of adults in the U.S. read below a 5th grade level, and 19 percent of high school graduates can't read."

I have a 32 year old President of the company I am with who cannot write a one paragraph email without help. I am 57 just as a reference to era of education when attending school.

Best Regards

 

Well hey, first off lose the attitude, I'm not attacking your opinion or interested in a argument over this, and I see you have a strong opinion on this and I'm just saying my own thoughts on it, so be civil. So like I said, anything to put a kid in front if a computer to do something productive must be good for them. I'm not sure why you would want to say things about my school teaching me anything when you have no idea who I am or what I know, so let's focus on the discussion.

Anyway I retain my stance that it's a good idea regardless who is the public figure in control of the program. Especially since that link also seems like some biased vague details of the now ex head if that organization. Does she NEED to know how to code? No... She only was the person in charge. She won't be the one teaching or probably even learning from the program, the teachers will be, and then teach other fellow teachers who eventually teach the children. Why is politics taking the spotlight of the issue when the goal is still pretty much positive and achievable regardless of her or the other parties of a similar lack of tech knowledge controlling/funding the program? In the end professionals are hired to do the real technical aspects of the program...

Also - I seriously doubt most kids in Vietnam are so capable. I know Vietnamese people, some are in my family, and I've never heard of such things. Perhaps it's true they have many gifted children, but that's the same for about anywhere, including the states. I bet if you compared the level of education overall of most children in Vietnam, and compared to averages in the states, they wouldn't be so drastically different... Perhaps the states could use better education systems, but it's far from the worst in the world.

To quote the article:

Doesn't sound like they have everything figured out there either... Are you going to attack that program as well? You think the person (s) who created that were tech geniuses?

Edit: And to quote Wikipedia about the Canadian education system:

Nobody is perfect... Here's a quote from a literacy study in 05:

So how is the Canadian system so much better these days?

 

On the first point I left above..Don't come at folks with mischaracterization and not expect your pugilistic attitude to be taken as such. On the second point worth addressing..The west's edumacation agenda is to dumb down.. Nothing to do with Canada in particular..just a symptom of a covertly occupied system that does not have the citizens first and foremost in their decisions and allocation of funding. I have nothing to argue with you further because I never had anything to argue with you personally to begin with. You were the one to hoist that mantle onto your shoulders..not I.

 

Fair enough. We'll just agree to disagree

 

That's what employees see.

What most companies nowadays see is he's got 30+ years of practical and 20 years of professional experience, we'll have to pay him a lot more .... lets hire the cheaper labor ..... wait, why hire anyone, lets get free interns.

 

ooh wow 4-11 year olds really? LAME! my HS required you to take a typing class first, it was really dumb..... wish i got into coding in HS, id be sooo much farther than iam now...

who takes a typing class?? thats not looking to be a secretary or writer, or is just old, lol.

i learned to type by making jokes to dudes while playing wolfenstien and call of duty lol, gotta type fast to not die!.. LOL i was kicking butt at the game, and typing jokes ALOT

 

That's interesting - I was introduced to programming around 10yrs old, starting out with LOGO/BASIC (then Amiga BASIC shortly after). I even remember buying these "write your own game" booklets that were basically binary you had to type in ... talk about tedious!

This is a good thing, and don't worry too much about having your job 'taken away'. One thing people seem to forget is that yes, there might be an influx of developers coming into the market (i'm not convinced, but lets just assume), but who do you think is going to manage them? Who provides architecture and governance for an organization? Who deals with UAT, UX design, business requirements, etc..?

There will be many more jobs at a higher level and you should consider the opportunities outside of slinging code. I'm making that transition myself now (moving from Software Engineer/Developer -> Solutions Architect). It has a great side benefit too, instead of being 'burnt' from coding all day @ work then coding all night @ home, now I get to learn and do something quite different so when I'm home from work and have the time, i'm ready to rock on writing some cool games .