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[Theoretical] How to 'speed up' a open-world sandbox game?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AndrewGrayGames, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

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    So, having played various sandbox games (Terraria, Starbound, and Minecraft), I've noticed that play sessions for these games take a while. While some good speed runs exist for certain games (for instance, this SGDQ 2014 speedrun by Bismuth), in casual play it takes a long time to feel like you've accomplished anything at all. I personally consider this a failing of the open-world sandbox genre; as currently implemented, starting a new game sucks.

    Also, to get a game even close to a 'beaten' state, you're looking at many, many hours of gameplay. While this is good (I've sunk many hours of my own into Terraria and Starbound), my curiosity was piqued earlier today by a remark a friend made: "Why can't we just sit down, play a sandbox game for a couple of hours, win the game, and be able to do something else?"

    While the "why" is rather arbitrary, and based on the designer's personal philosophy about such things (the designer dictates that, along with what they will use to entice you to keep playing the game), I'm curious about the how, as a matter of theory only.

    What can be done with wide-open sandboxes to allow for one- to two-hour play sessions of the game that reward players well, and keep them coming back?
     
  2. calmcarrots

    calmcarrots

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    This isn't really an open world game but.... Diablo 3. I feel very rewarded because I get a quest, kill something, then I get some legendary item that makes me really happy. All in 30 min. Same with Borderlands or Skyrim. These games have a loot system that keeps that player really rewarded, whether its a bad weapon or a good one because we could always sell those bad weapons. Win win solution. I think a loot system is one thing that keeps things very interesting.
     
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  3. Whippets

    Whippets

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    That's very succinctly put, and holds true for a lot of game genres. 30 mins of play time, and you've done something thought provoking/story based (quest), done something grindy towards a goal (killed something), and been rewarded (feeling rewarded) for your efforts. I think a lot of us can benefit from this - almost a mantra to put on the wall
     
  4. Deleted User

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    One way is to restrict that "open worldness", I personally don't feel any appeal to those survival games or as above is mentioned games like Diablo, which is just constant grinding for better gear, but I like some almost open games as Hexen series and Wolfenstein from 2009.

    Now these are weird examples in the context I guess, but analyzing them, they are hub based, meaning you get a set of levels all connected to each other, solve a puzzle in one level to unlock something in another, find secrets and explore. You are limited to the things you can do, but I like it, no need for a reward for killing 100 monsters, is more rewarding to find the pieces to unlock some place and go on.

    Those games have a set end, so where is the replayability? Just seccrets areas, secret passages and alternate ways to finish levels. Is maybe far from the concept of open sandbox, but it feels more structured and doesn't involve grinding for a reward unless is what you want.

    Another example I could make is Arx Fatalis, open world RPG set underground. Everything is connected, is full of secret passages you can find but don't need, there are palces that you won't notice after further playtroughs. I suggest to take a look at it if you never played.

    Another example would Fallout: New Vegas. Is not sandbox but is openworld, the quests design is all worth to play, non redundant tasks and the will to explore and learn the lore of the place, with no obligation to do anything specific for hours, just do the quests follow the various stories, decide which faction to join or not, go around blowing up things, and if you want some survival cook some food and stuff, there is no need to build a campfire out of logs.

    Thats the main problem of sandbox (mind that I said sandbox not openworld) games, the feeling of nothing, there is no wonder of exploration and learning the place you are in, so to fill the gap of nothingness you are bound to redundant activities like build your shelter and stuff.

    Oh and yeah, another example is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. There would be too much to say about it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2014
  5. NomadKing

    NomadKing

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    I think that the short term goals, and rewards, for the games you mentioned are almost entirely user created. Exploring part of the map, building part of your base, gathering to craft a certain item - all user driven goals where the only reward is doing the task you set yourself. To me this is part of the charm and appeal of these sort of games. Here's an open world, go and explore/play and find all the cool things we put in it.

    Adding more traditional structure to this sort of genre would be quite tricky - the second you add some sort of reward for completing a task, beyond what the task itself gives, that becomes the 'best' way to play the game. Suddenly your open world game has become quite linear. In Minecraft they make an attempt to do deal with this through the achievement system, and it works quite well, although is an achievement rewarding enough for the type of player we're talking about? I don't know.

    If I was tackling this problem, the achievement / guide direction is probably the way I would go, perhaps adding some cosmetic rewards (something that offers no gameplay advantage) for some of the larger milestones. There are probably more things you can do for short term goals (daily questing, dungeon runs, daily resource gathering etc), but they are a bit more game specific, and could be more harm than help in some cases.
     
  6. Harissa

    Harissa

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    Well the thing that strikes me about most sandbox games is that you're pretty much on your own. One way of speeding things up would be to introduce other characters who you can ask/pay to do work for you.
    So you could have a situation where the enemy will attack in exactly one hour from now. You can do your own thing in a minecraft style or you can pay some NPCs to build walls/ castles etc. You don't get to design the NPC structures but you can say where you want to put them, how many of them etc. The trick is to use your resources to build the best defences in one hour and then you have to defend them against the enemy.
    You could extend this to less military situations - for example there could be a flood and you have to defend your village before the waters come.
     
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  7. imaginaryhuman

    imaginaryhuman

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    What is it that slows the game down? Is it the building part of it, having to sit there and chisel away at putting blocks together? Maybe then the `tools` for building are too fine-grained. Maybe you need some kind of higher-level building blocks perhaps coupled with some procedural generation elements, so that you can `build stuff` or change stuff really quickly on a larger scale?
     
  8. AndrewGrayGames

    AndrewGrayGames

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    The building is usually not a problem in any game (there's only so many ways one can plunk down blocks), it's the resource gathering. Mining for useful ores is extremely slow, in every cited example. Nine times out of ten if you spend a few hours (more than two) just mining, you'll have roughly an order of magnitude more dirt that you're lugging around, than actual ore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
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  9. Kinos141

    Kinos141

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    Yakuza series are my favorite open world game. The area was tiny in comparison to others, but the amount of missions, side-mission, and "loot"(in the form of power ups) were staggering. I have sunk 10 hrs into the campaign and 40hrs in the side mission alone.

    Back on topic, to speed up an open world sandbox, give the player something to do off the bat. GTA series is great at this. After the intros, the game gives you something to do: drive here, kill that, etc.
     
  10. RockoDyne

    RockoDyne

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    The irony is it's not that the game is slow, so much as the play style used is slow. The better chunk of slowdowns comes from base building and the mentality of having a base. Building and maintaining the base is one huge time sink, but now you add tons to travel time as adventures now become individual campaigns being launched with plenty of travel time leaving and returning to base.

    Add to that the fact that resource gathering gets a little insane, it shouldn't surprise most people to realize they didn't need to gather most of it. Might as well measure time spent as S*** per tons stored.


    I suppose you could figure out game modes that de-emphasize hoarding and base building, and emphasize a nomadic play style. That would make the crux of the matter whether you can actually provide the streamlined experience without sacrificing creativity.
     
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  11. melkior

    melkior

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    I think pre-seeding can help a lot here -- games like Just Cause 2, Grand Theft Auto, Saint's Row etc take great advantage of. I'm sure a similar process could be used for fantasy instead of modern setting though.

    One of the biggest slow downs in minecraft is the construction/crafting subgames.

    Notice if you choose not to play those sub-games the game doesn't feel nearly as slow.
     
  12. KheltonHeadley

    KheltonHeadley

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  13. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    But it has to be. Supply vs. demand. If those things were easy or quick to get then they wouldn't be valuable, and that would fundamentally change the nature of the game.

    MMOs have a similarsame issue. If you make the valuable stuff easy for everyone to get then it ceases being valuable.
     
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  14. GeneBox

    GeneBox

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    Imo as everything else it depends on the person playing the game. Sandboxes tend to be time sinks anyways (MC, Terraria). Look at ArchAge, it's a sandbox too and unless you can't entertain yourself, be it by farming, building whatever, the game will become incredibly boring really fast.

    Maybe implementing a rush mode or something along the lines might help the case. People who enjoy the mining, building and just sinking countless hours into the game will play the true sandbox, others the "rush" mod (whatever that might be).
     
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  15. Tiny-Tree

    Tiny-Tree

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    i would setup a routine in the gameplay like having a day night cycle 30 minute from morning to night, then during day you can explore collect stuff, and at night you have to go to your base, learn skills, craft equipment etc. that force player to have short sessions. at night you make creatures attack the base or deadly monster goes out at night ( like the film riddick)