The majority of developers should quit game development.

Two weeks ago, I was fired from my job. I hated that job, but I was determined not to quit. I applied at similar companies but I found them all to have the same bad vibe that made me hate my last two jobs. Then, I did something crazy (for me) and I applied for a different kind of company entirely. And... I can honestly say, now, that I like my job. In the meantime, I haven't even had the desire to think about video games or anything. And... I am cool with that.

My theory: games were an escape for me from a life that I wasn't satisfied with. A substitute life. Wanting to make my own games was an extension of me wanting to take control of my own life. Taking control of my own life was my most repressed desire, because of fear... which did not exist in games because failure was only temporary in games.

My conclusion: If more people expressed, rather than repressed, their desires then we wouldn't have this huge gaming culture living lives through games, and then we would see people reshaping the world around them rather than trying to make custom virtual worlds.

What we see as wannabe game developers and designers are people with vision who are influential and smart, gifted and talented problem solvers, creative and strong-willed.

But, all of this, repressed beneath a matrix. A disconnect from the world around. I believe that all of this talent and vision is being wasted on the pursuit of game development. Focus that energy on changing your own life and the world around you.

Boys ultimately don't want to pretend to be a badass who saves the world and gets girls... boys want to be that. The pretend is just as close as they think they can get.

But that's the lie.

Nothing is impossible. But the answer isn't in a game. It's out there... in the real world. And we have real problems and real bad guys. And the world needs you.

If game development is your job and you be making money at it, by all means... proceed.

But a lot of the people wanting to make games right now are missing their calling.

 

Are we only discussing wannabe professional game developers? Or are we including hobbyists who may eventually do it?

 

I'm not sure what you're saying, but I take it that you're quitting. Can I have your stuff?

 

There are many reasons one chooses game development over something else. Everyone has different reasons to choose their career path. Some like the creativity for instance. If its not your calling then its ok but you can't generalize that everyone is or thinks like you...

You confuse "playing games" with "developing games". They are completely different. Not everyone hides behind a wall, or a videogame as you describe, and what you describe is about players and usually not developers. I have friends working at game companies (some of the big ones) and actually they don't even play games or have time to do so. No time to be in a virtual world there!

Also keep in mind that a new experience that is positive is bound to change your view since your last two jobs related to game development were not so good. Unlike what you seem to think, there are positive experiences out there in the game development; you got the bad ones it seems. Its nice that you were able to change and like what you are doing, but that doesn't mean everyone should quit. Novelty wear offs eventually, so unless you do something you really love, you'll come back to what is truly in your heart.

You're jumping to the wrong conclusion here.

The real conclusion is: Whatever your dream is you should follow it!

 

haha, this is the biggest load of bull I have ever read

 

"Nothing is impossible. But the answer isn't in a game. It's out there... in the real world. And we have real problems and real bad guys. And the world needs you."

You can't tell me what to do, you're not my dad!

Games 4 life.

 

While I think the thread title is intentionally a bit click-baity, I think the worst infraction here is the misguided logic leading to the creation of this thread in the first place. The bottom line is okay: If you're unhappy with something, change it. But everything else is just baloney and has nothing to do with games or game development.

Very few people love their job. Or more accurately, few people love everything about their job. You may love what you do, but hate your boss. Or you may feel neutral about what you do, but have great coworkers. Or maybe you don't even care for what you actually do that much, but the pay is great and the hours work with your life needs. All of these are fine, as long as it's good for you.

If it's important to you that your job offers you advancement opportunities and your job doesn't, then you should look to change things. If you want to feel like you're utilizing your skills to the best of your ability, and you currently aren't, then change it. If it's important for you to feel like you're giving back to your community, make it so. Not enough money? Change. Long hours affecting your marriage? Change.

But what doesn't work for you may be fine for someone else, just like what's good for you may not be good for them. The idea that you have a new job and don't want to play or make games is fine. But it has zero relevance to anyone else, beyond the general advice that you should do what works for you and change what doesn't.

Otherwise, let's recommend everyone quit doing everything that doesn't "get rid of bad guys"... Nobody watch TV or movies (or work in those industries). No one should read or write books, as they're not the real world. And why would anyone waste their time drawing, painting, or sculpting when there's a world to be experienced out there, right?

Find your happy. Keep your balance. Chase your dream. Mind your manners.

And don't assume you know what's best for others.

 

I'm happy for you @Master Frog and your new job. And I think I know what you're saying but I don't think it's really about game development at all. Sometimes, it seems, what we think we want (for a career or otherwise) is not really the thing that will make us happy.

Certainly video games can be used as an escape from reality, but sometimes we need that. You could say the same for film or novels or just having a conversation with someone and hearing an amazing story. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, and video games offer a variety of experiences that aren't safe, practical, of affordable to do in real life.

Though, I do agree with the point of spending time to change your life rather than just consuming entertainment. It's clear that many people spend hours each day watching TV or playing games or whatever, when they could be developing themselves. I mean, if that makes them happy, great, but they're not really advancing their situation that way.

However, the thing that is missing is that for some people (probably many people here) creating video games IS their dream. I know, at least for me, I've known I wanted to make games since I was a kid. So it doesn't make sense to say these people are "missing their calling" when game development is their calling.

 

This is true for addict people to gaming,alchool or something else.
But each one of us have differen game goals. Some indies just try to make some appealing game players will enjoy, others a dreaming to work in some little indie company as it would be their dream job working on what they like.

When you look at TV or a movie, you are disconnected from the world around, when you play music , tennis or read books you are also disconnected in some way . Who said it was bad ?
When someone has some talent and he can express it on music , manga creations, movies creations, or any digital art creation, there is nothing wrong.
Game development is digital art creation and skills you can express. It's only bad to pursue game development if you don't enjoy it a lot.

What is your job style ? And why it was not good before you find the new one ?
Are you sure you would not want to make a game people would enjoy ? Would you not be happy and proud to success making it as a hobby activity ?

Making video games as your dream, doesn't mean you can't find some balance shape up yoruself and improve yourself outside of game development. Like any activity , the trap is to stay too focused on one activity and forget yourself and all around that you could do.

 

Don't expect to get a love from this thread, but I agree with you completely. I think that art, as such, is an impotent expression of emotion, and requires consequent action to become fully realized and useful. I said in another thread a couple of months back that I don't play games all that much, that for me most games are an especially useful pick-me-up when I feel low and that they are beneficial for a while but after a few days of a few hours of gaming a day it becomes harmful to me, because I start to feel addicted to how easy it is to feel good. It didn't really seem to go down all that well if I remember correctly.

But not only is it useful to be honest with oneself about what games and game development mean, but by doing so we can potentially find ways to make games useful and constructive to us. For me, the greatest aspect of art is its ability to affect how we live our lives. When we see some painting, or read a novel, or play a game, does it positively affect everything we do in the real world? These effects are the only important things, the art itself is only a means to the end. Can scifi games give us a glimpse of the future? Can all those sword-and-dagger games teach us something about the past, about history? All that is necessary is a thread of realism, coated in artistic freedom, for it - IMO - to be something useful. The Metal Gear Solid series is hardly realistic, and takes all kinds of artistic freedom, yet there were threads of realism within it that I found very compelling and made me think.

I think you did the right thing - I stopped playing games for years when I realized how much of my time was being wasted in what usually amounted to pointless activity. But what I'm here for now is the chance to give people a glimpse of my idea of the future - a scifi game that expresses my ideas about what the far-flung future will hold and what it will mean. That's all that I want from game development, and if not for that, I would concentrate on all the other, real things that I want to get done in this world. I will always continue to play games, of course, the same way that I will appreciate and interact with all forms of art, but always with the knowledge that it is utterly meaningless except for how it changes what I and the rest of the audience actually do.

 

I think there are 2 distinct happiness elements in making games.

1) To be able to give something that other people value.
2) To do something you enjoy.

Each one is rewarding, and if you can have both, you're very lucky. But it's not always the case. Maybe you really love making games, but in the end people don't like your work, or vice versa.

Worse case scenario... you find out it's not feasible that you make games and do it for living. But you shouldn't tell people to quit beforehand. Everyone must have their own experience, it's a personal thing.

And btw, I don't think what you said is bollocks, I think it's great, but that's your experience. And who knows? Maybe in the future you'll want to go back to your previous type of work, under different terms. You never know. Life's a journey.

 

There is no reason that you can't do something else while also creating games. Being able to do many things is a great benefit to you in this short life, when you are old you will have much less regrets knowing you did as much as you could, you should not look at game development as a regular job but one that you have a passion for.

I get many people don't like that the company behind the game gets all the credit but hey so the lead singer in a band but you take satisfaction in knowing the job you bring to people in the world by being part of this. Think all the greats, The Beatles, AC/DC, Bob Marley and the Wailers, Pink Floyd etc. These people will bring great joy to the world after all of us here are long gone. This in itself should be one of the greatest satisfaction of creating something.

my 2 cents.

 

There is bad negative music and negative games, it is up to you to choose what you listen or play.
Anyway, music or video games are an expression that can make lot of people happy, lot of people enjoyed Nintendo games for example.

 

Uh... I'm no psychologist, but play and make-belief are two fundamental parts of our psyche. Games are just an extension of "Cowboys and Indians", or "Cops and Robbers", using technology to make it more visceral and immersive.

The simple fact is that none of us will ever be space cowboys, medieval knights, wizards or (in most cases) elite special forces on the trail of a warlord.

Games allow us to explore those thoughts and fantasies in a safe way. It has nothing to do with trying to escape our problems or repress our issues.

 

@Master Frog. Congrats on getting out. I wish you best of luck in your future endeavours. Pop in from time to time and let us know how things are going. The forums will be a different place without you.

 

I can deal with a guy telling me to quit my favorite hobby (game dev), but sir, I draw the line at this. I will be a space cowboy some day. I will. First, my 3 children have to master robotics, neuroscience, and genetics. Using this knowledge they will build me a robot body so I can live until the technology is ready to buy my first space cowboy ship (but first I will use my robot body to invade tokyo because...well that's just what you do).

I have it all planned out, quit trying to crush my dreams.

 

That's MY plan, that's why I'm trying to sabotage yours. My daughter is extremely strong willed and hot-headed, which will help her rise to the top of the business world by 25, and her immense wealth will fund my son's research, who at 18 months is already better with the laptop than my wife (no joke, he can hook up the HDMI port and put the TV on the right input setting).

I may consider going halvsies on invading Tokyo though if you let me have the laser beams coming from my eyes.

 

If what you're building in your games is a repressed vision of what you'd hope for your life, then we better cross fingers that the teams that worked on the Mortal Kombat series never catch that same urge to start shaping the world around them.

 

Umm ok...what were you ranting about again??

 

How much his former job sucked.

 

Oh lol. Boy is my memory getting bad. Or is it i didn't read through that long wall of text lol

 

Deal, we team up with our minions and give tokyo all it can handle (you can have laser eyes, I'm a rocket punch kinda guy).

 

Great. I'll share my son's research with your kids. It might look like scribbles of what appears to be a bunny, or possibly a bear, but I'm certain that deep within the pattern is the secret to eternal life.

 

Okawa Yamamoto from the GREA, Giant Robots Extermination Agency, here.

Know that we will not let you invade Tokyo so easily. As we're speaking, we're readying up Godzilla v52.2.1 and it's more than ready to take you down. Standing 3 thousands feet tall, it can derail a RANT - A.K.A Rapidly Advancing Nuclear Train - with a minor tail sweep.

 

@Master Frog mind if I ask if your job(s) are/were related to software development and/or game development? I would like to understand your perspective a little more.

 

I do believe that a lot of people who came into game dev have done so hoping it will be a way for them to escape their current job. I think you are absolutely right about that.

And man I am glad you finally got out of the career you hated so much. So many people hate their jobs and it really is rather insane to live like that. Very happy for you! And I hope that after a few weeks or so you will get an itch to play around with game dev just for a hobby.

Anyway, congrats man on being fired and moving on!

 

reshaping the world around me is my goal with game development
Undertale is now my Hero/Idol, proves my vision i have is plausible,
... to use this art medium as a "Weapon" against evil.
... like Bob Marley

 

Loot drop!

 

I dunno about you guys but I was at some bar and someone told me some crazy story about this "gold rush" with apps and that lead me here. And after my only research with watching several seasons of Yukon Gold, I have learned finding this "gold" is very hard! There was many newbs that came onto this show and expecting gold, but everyone is entitled to gold when they work hard even if they are a wannabe!

 

I think I agree, sort of. "Entitled" is such a strong word. I don't think everyone deserves to get the gold. But I can tell you that those who don't give up will find gold with the experience they gained, regardless of if they actually finished their game. You can become a valuable commodity to the many companies out there seeking your abilities.

That's why I need to know what @Master Frog did/does. But I'm afraid he may have already dropped the mike.

 

Agreed; there's only so many jobs, there's no room for half the people willing to work on games these days. It makes companies abuse this demand for jobs (mandatory crunch, low pay, hire-to-fire culture and so on).
We all should quit... But then there's that "-I don't make it for money!" teen who loves to be abused and keeps the bad system alive

 

So true, it seems like the more that the reality of indie game development abuses developers, the more they cultivate an aversion to good business sense and anything that would help them actually succeed financially.

 

Why worry so much though? Most people never actually make a product that go on the app store / steam. Even the few that do make a product, it is so completely garbage no one would do anything with it and it rots as quickly as it was made. Now the people that ever make it that far and make something great, well they deserve whatever rewards they get. Sure the competition is huge on the forums, but it's not like many people actually finish in reality.

 

I agree. Everyone should quit.

thanks

 

It's no fun when there is no competition...

 

but theres more money.

I prefer money to competition.

 

I am not sure the gaming culture is any more huge than the sporting culture, the Nascar culture, and a zillion other "cultures" out there. In fact, I suspect the gaming culture is much smaller.

In my world, which does not consist of many 20-something people, very few I meet work in the gaming industry. Some do play games, but it is only a part of their life..small part after jobs, kids, partners, vacations, picnics, trips to the movies, etc.

I would guess that while lots of people play games, only a subset is consumed by gaming. We just see whatever group we hang out around as the only ones that exist. Sort of how living in the bible belt makes me feel like the whole world is full of people wanting to convert me to their religion, but in reality is a small percentage.

 

Hey, now, it's NASCAR; it actually stands for something (Go Denny Hamlin. The "superbowl" was today).

 

Agree with what you said. It is a desire and it does disconnect me from the world. But it's what I like doing and It will affect my relationship with my family. I wish you all the best, and I hope I make a decision like yours soon, rather then late.

 

Ha!! I am obviously not of the NASCAR crowd. lol.

 

That would be 'National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing'

 

Would you consider re-writing this article from the personal perspective? There are a lot of statements about what others should do, which weakens your overall point, and creates opportunities for argument. And, it undermines the lesson you are trying to share. You may consider that your message would be much stronger, if written from the personal perspective - "I'm Outa Here! Why Quitting Game Development Was the Best Thing I Could Have Done".

I thought the technique was called, Universal through Specific. Though, I can't find a reference.

Gigi

 

I agree with Gigi, I want a story from OP so I can learn from him and his experiences. Maybe you will help us from not doing the same mistakes!

 

I also think that Gigiwoo is on the right track. I appreciate Master Frog's personal account. And I wish him the best in the new direction that his life is going in. But how he relates to games is clearly not the same way that I do.

I'm not using games to escape. I've never really used them to escape. Well, maybe solitaire and minesweeper once or twice, but even those couldn't hold me for very long. I am connected to the world around me, and quite often spend most of my time doing things other than games. I have to specifically find time to enjoy games between all the other things I have going on.

Gaming isn't an emotional crutch or a haven for me. It just happens to be a personal passion. It's something that I've always found myself drawn to as a creative medium.

I would appreciate it if Master Frog could share some of his experiences with the culture that he claims to be escaping from. I'm wondering if the differences in our perspectives might have something to do with the fact that I've never actually worked as a game developer. I've only ever done this as a hobby, and have no experience with professional game development.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. I do know a lot of teenagers who want to be game developers because that is the only thing they do well, play games. So maybe for many it is an escape from what must appear to be dull and tedious occupations compared to working on games.

While I enjoy some games, I imagine I have played fewer games in my lifetime than many of you have played this past year. lol So for me, game development is an extension of writing, making my stories visual and come to life and helping others do the same. It is a creative hobby for me.

 

That's very cool. I don't see much success developers here who are making living from that, so your choice to change your job is not bad.

 

A lot of negativity surrounded by your last two jobs . Let me enlighten you with my experience so that you may get some answers. Well I was studying civil engineering in BUET(Bangladesh University of Engineering and Technology), which is considered the top, among all engineering universities in BD. In normal route, I would be a civil engineer building roads, buildings, culverts, taking care of the environment, water etc. The payoff was way more than what it is now with game deving, in many ways.

The thing was that I was a gamer too. I literally loved Prince of Persia, God of War, Dante's Inferno, Devil may cry etc games. I was so loved with God of War that I brought PSP just to play that game, even though I hated Sony for its various policies back then. Love for gaming, the virtual world, helped me thinking many things in different way; the better visualization of 3D, better imagination powers.

The repressed thing was buried deep within my soul, which got itself triggered in an event. In the year when Prince of persia 2008 DLC got console exclusive. I was raged so much that I was looking for modding/authoring tools so that I can get a bit of happiness by creating some minutes of POP gameplay and environments. Basically kind of same feeling which modders generally get. That was the time I began to fall under the gravity of a black hole called "sagittarius gameDev".

At first I did not notice of what is going on with me. Was I drunk too much of game deving? Then slowly I began to lurk in many regions of game development. Many, because I did not simply want to recreate an angry bird or flappy bird! Its AAA quality games we are talking about. Games which require just too much knowledge to be built.

Single soul, very heavy load on my shoulder and a black hole attracting me-taking me to her event horizon. I had to listen many bitter words from many people I used to know well. Well something from game development just could not let me break off, the joy of creation.

After two years, I decided to end the hobby and finally took it as a job, leaving civil thing behind and forsaken. From many ups and downs, now today, I got free dark skin from Sony PlayStation and talking with you in the unity forum. What an irony! I love things which I hated once!

So you see, I linger on which I love, the game development. There are actually more things attached to this world, which I think is too personal and won't interest anyone. If you think game development as casual development job wise, then there are many good studios and places for you, I believe. If you think business wise, then also there are good ways of doing business.

If there is any daring adventure in my life, joining game development must be in the top of the list. I thank David Helgason and the whole Unity team; without you all this would not have been possible. Then I thank Tim Sweeney and the UE team, and of course everybody at Crytek for all the support I received. I thank prince of persia forum stuffs, Jordan Mechner and everybody related to PoP series; David Jaffe, Stig Asmussen and everybody related to GoW series. Most of all, I thank God who helped to sustain till now.

English is not my native, hope this response would help you while seeking some whats and whys.

 

Everybody should quit everything

 

Just think how productive some of us would be if we quit the forums. I spent so much time sitting there hitting F5.

 

Game development has always been the challenge of trying to get to the top of the development scene. I did do it back in my starcraft1, warcraft3 modding days.