The general software thread

Yes, this thread is supposed to be about Stingray, and the other Stingray threads got closed down and redirected them here. Without a Stingray thread, expect many new ones.

It would be better to get rid of the off-topic messages rather than validate them.

 

Here is the answer for you:

https://twitter.com/FrostbiteEngine/status/448778002009423872

 

I think LUA is a bit faster that C#, but we can't really compare them. Are 2 different things. We only can say both are interpreted and not executed directly on CPU as code. But as languages, are totally 2 different things.

 

It's simply not possible Lua is slower than C#.
Also Lua language is way too more limited compared to all C# features. If you go further then simple game logic and want to code some advanced tools or complex gameplay needing to organize your code with classes and other features , it will be a nightmare with Lua and no real class system.

Frostbyte guys are so funny

 

LUA comes with nothing, you make bindings to do something. Bindings layer execution time is way smaller that in C# case.

When you say is not possible for LUA to be faster, at what you refer exactly?

 

C# in Unity is not JIT compiled right?

 

Where is a source showing languages speed compares ? I mean compares from a neutral society not involved in 3D games and not using or selling products using Lua or C++.
It's like any product , Autodesk will never say that Lua is not so fast when their product is mainly based on Lua.
Lua has not Visual Studio equivalent or debugger or you must make your owns or customize some like NotePad ++.
Also try to make Classes with Lua , that point among many others makes me stay with C# .

 

@zenGarden , take a look here, just as an example:
https://attractivechaos.github.io/plb/


No, you don't do what you said, you do everything in C/C++ via bindings, you don't do super complicated computation in LUA because do not make sense, you call a C/C++ to do it faster for you.

 

great

 

I would have to look for the post again, but I recall a developer stating that C# was half the speed of C++. I know for a fact (benchmarks linked below) that Lua without a JIT compiler is significantly slower than that. The real question is how much does LuaJIT improve upon that speed.

http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=gpp (C# vs C++)
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=lua (C# vs Lua)

It varies from one platform to the next. Unity uses JIT (Just in Time) except on platforms like iOS that prohibit that sort of activity and in those cases AOT (Ahead of Time) is used instead.

http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/12211/does-unity-always-use-ahead-of-time-compilation.html
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/346376/unity-compilation-process.html

 

That's neat! I knew about AOT but didn't know about JIT.

 

@Ryiah , I am not sure if that test is relevant. Is illogical to do binary trees in pure LUA, or any kind of complicated computations, as long as you did not writen the bindings, and you are sure the C/C++ behind is fast and optimized enough for best results.

 

Benchmarks are seldom completely accurate for real life scenarios, but they do give you a rough idea of the differences between the two languages. Lua is simply outclassed by C# and for most of those benchmarks by quite a wide margin.

Once again these benchmarks are without LuaJIT. It may very well make up the difference.

 

I'm wondering why people care about which language is faster it just matters for mobile doesn't it?
how much the code itself takes cpu load?
they should care more about gpu load
stingray / bitsquid emphasis on multithreading
a question
is unity really multithreaded? I usually see one of my cpu core is involved unless I used a lot of particle
but for other engines I see all cores involve

 

LUA being faster than C# or vice versa doesn't really matter, if one engine can make all stuff run faster, this may be irrelevant (actually, cryengine with LUA can run all the other things much faster than unity), the good comparison would be unity with C# vs unity with LUA .

 

It depends on the game you are creating and the platforms you are targeting. It can be just as important for console platforms as it can be for mobile platforms. Voxel-based games can be very heavy on processing resources. If someone does not have access to C++ then they would be forced to implement the voxel system in the scripting language.

 

ryiah you seem very experienced
who is behind this cartoon girl!?

 

Someone who spent far too much of their life learning programming. If I were to start over I would invest some of that time into creating artwork so I wouldn't be as dependent on others for game development. I'm actually not that experienced but I do have a great memory and love researching.

 

hey ryiah, it's not too late to start creating, and if you need help on 3d art you'll find folks here

 

I spent most of my time on artwork and I think if I were to start over I would do programming instead

 

art is much easier than programming , I need years , you need a few months

 

Art is easier than... oh boy.

 

I wish artwork was easier... I'd love for you to turn around to a AAA outfit who make games like Batman Arkham Knight and say the artwork was easy.. It's pretty much 80% of the game, including the characters and villains.

 

Why must we compare apples to oranges? There is no suitable comparator. Uncaught exception thrown. Do you wish to report this error? No. I wish to bury this error log in the heart of the earth... from whence it shall never be heard from again.

 

What else do we have to do for six days?

 

I've not a clue why you'd compare fruit, you just eat it..! Daftest comparison ever.

Edit: Oh looks like we need to change the thread title again as were comparing food..

 

you know , it's easy to make them but it's hard to make a game out of them

 

The food appreciation depends on your taste and your needs

 

apple is the best
orange sucks

 

open source food is better

 

But so many people work on it that it's hard to maintain a consistent flavor from one open source fruit to the next.

 

open source food sounds like a soup everybody throw something in it

 

standardized food is safer then

 

Frozen food, anyone?

 

Imagine if the majority of stingray users used blender. I don't think autodesk would be able to handle it.

It's an easy to understand example, but did you have to pick the low hanging fruit?

Does it? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

That's exactly the kind of title I would have given this thread, considering the humorous rate at which the topic branches as it goes on in pages. It says something about a community when the rulers and the clowns have the same opinion. Politics!

The real mother of dragons would have shut this whole thing down, yet instead you leave the fight pits open. Your advisor is disappoint.

 

Let's keep this thread until Stingray is out and make a new one when it will be released.

 

There is an active blog about Bitsquid development here:
http://bitsquid.blogspot.com/2015_03_01_archive.html

 

It shows clearly that the engine is a heavy work in progress, fundations are beeing working on it seems.

 

The blog entry you linked mostly answers my earlier question concerning threads. It's not particularly clear but it does state the API is not thread-safe.

 

I've been playing around with different game engines since march of last year. Started with Unity and Unreal. Now I've been playing around with clickteam fusion and construct 2. Will soon be getting my hands on Stingray. I hear people compare engines to Unreal like if it was the standard and maybe is pretty close to what we would expect at present time.
The point is, you don't need Unreal or any shinny engine to build a great game.

 

It just happens to produce the shiniest trailers. It also has the easiest networking ever.

 

I know it can do pretty mighty stuff, but do you really need a tank to kill a fly. I say use whatever tool is right for the job.

 

Honestly, this sounds like a dream engine to me. Creating art and seeing the results in real-time (or at least after pushing a button) is great. I understand Unity can do this, as well as Unreal (to a lesser extent), but it looks stronger in Stingray. Sharing materials from Maya sounds great too (especially that you can send the changes both ways).

I'm most interested, though, in live editing scripts with the game running. This sounds, to me, like the holy grail of game development. I'm not sure I even know how much of my life I've spent watching code compile. Now imagine getting all that time back!

Also, they've confirmed there will be a free trial and that current Maya LT subscribers can use their login to activate the engine on release day. I won't over-hype it. It could be great, it could be junk. But it looks interesting enough that I'd like to try it out on day one and see for myself.

 

You don't even need a decent user interface if Dwarf Fortress is any indication. Your game won't be very popular though.

Right. Choose the best tool for the job. Ideally the one that allows you to develop your game without feeling like you're constantly pulling teeth and for some people that is very much Unreal. There are simply some things that Unity cannot do at this point or cannot do well enough to make it worthwhile to use or developers like ShadowK would still be using it.

One thing to keep in mind is that while Unreal may be stressful now, it won't necessarily stress most gaming systems by the time those developers release. Not that I would even consider the current requirements to be demanding as my aging system can run the demos and it is pushing five years. It wasn't particularly powerful back then either.

 

@cyberpunk
exactly
making shading network in your 3d package
keeping assets as maya or max format with their shaders , importing them to any other project without headache all ready to go
making animation right into your 3d pack observing the result in the game engine
that's fantastic

 

i hope they will soon just use the DCC too as the main stingray level editor..... saving one more operation, allowing to model objects, build levels, all stuff, and editing it in the same tool... a kind of unity with all DCC Tools funtionnalities.
if they succeed in reducing the nbr of steps to the rendering engine then, it will be very appealing.

 

I'm sure Unity could make some live interfaces to work almost as smoothly with Blender or 3DSMAX.

 

well that is easy but that is not what i was doing... so let me explain myself.

when working on 3dsmax scenes, years ago i just though ... hey it could be nice just to put all game objects, game logic, scripts etc in it and then press a button "play game"... in fact, i was imagining a plugin for max that would allow game authoring directly in max editor.... that is what i 'd love to see with stingray and that's what i expect they will do.

 

And where did that decision get me?

If it saves you all opening new illegal fighting pits...

 

I think the next step is; Unreal and Unity 3d must build own 3d modeling in game engine.
Cryengine has a designer tool but they have to improve it. It is not enough yet.
If Blender Foundation act wisely, they are the most advantageous in this area.