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The dev proccess

Discussion in 'Game Design' started by FlamingGenius, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. FlamingGenius

    FlamingGenius

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    60
    Sorry I'm very bad at naming things.

    Anyways today I wanna talk about game order, and by that I mean how you know when to work on certain sections on your game.

    I don't wanna get to deep down into one specific scenario but to get the ball rolling let's say you have a dev team of 2 (depressing ik) you have a modeler and a programming (that's all you need right?) So in today's world a modular dynamic system is key to maintaining a project in the long run after all the more organized your game is the easier it will be to add without breaking. So yout programmer lays out the foundation for the systems. The modeler is working on the map,environment.

    But what comes first the map,the story, something else?

    I wanna hear some good feedback on your development process and when you know it's time to work on another portion of the game. I know I've been working on portion of my games for a few days and then have to pause to work on another portion of the game in order to complete the portion of the game I was originally working on.
     
  2. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Posts:
    5,181
    Identify the minimum viable product. The programmer works on the systems necessary to make that work, and the modeler makes the art.

    Neither of you make anything that isn't crucial to making the minimum viable product work. You reassess your work regularly, but you be careful not to over-analyze things and waste time. Try to figure out what systems can exist on their own and what systems may depend on others before you start working on them. The less switching gears you have to do mentally, the less stress and better work you're going to do. You don't organize because it makes things easier, you organize because without religious organization the thing won't get finished.

    Plan, but when your planning is taking you in mental circles going nowhere, that probably means its time to figure things out by prototyping -- i.e. starting the work even if you aren't exactly sure about all the details. You do this a few times and you start figuring out how to erase questions adn fill in answers.

    Don't say, "I'm not good at naming things." Think carefully about the words you choose. You have to be excellent at naming things. How else will you and your partner communicate when the project grows and becomes complex? Above all, you have to master organization and communication. Without these fundamental skills, the project will fail.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  3. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Posts:
    3,144
    The game comes first. I'm all about story, but very few people are going to play your game for story. They're going to play your game for the gameplay. So get the gameplay into shape before you ever worry about story. And honestly, I personally would say before you worry about the map, too. The world map can definitely add to the experience if it's part of the gameplay, but if it's not it's secondary. I'm less likely to play a poor-playing game with fabulous environments than I am to play a fabulous-playing game with poor environments.

    I think gameplay really is king. You can build a story and environments based on gameplay, while trying to build gameplay based on story or your environments doesn't even make sense.
     
    TeagansDad and TonyLi like this.
  4. TonyLi

    TonyLi

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Posts:
    12,670
    I second this. For a short time at the beginning, the artist may play a bigger role in the execution of paper prototyping and sketching out designs on paper. But then the programmer will need to spend at least a few days, if not a week or more, prototyping the systems, typically using gray boxes for 3D games or gray squares for 2D games.

    In many projects, this is a very challenging time for the artist, who will be sorely tempted to start making in-game assets and throwing them at the programmer to integrate. This is often a huge mistake. It'll slow down the programmer, and nice-looking assets may mask the fundamental gameplay mechanics at the very time that you want to strip it down to the core to evaluate how those mechanics play out. If the artist can't resist working on the project during this period, his or her time might be better spent on design work such as concept art, writing lore, etc.
     
    TeagansDad and Martin_H like this.
  5. astracat111

    astracat111

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Posts:
    725
    Depends, but game plan, and first comes the toolkit/toolset/"engine" or whatever you call it to a game, for example Final-IK, RPG Maker or Ren'Py, some kind of toolkit or pre-made game that you mod. If you know what's good for you, if you have two people, do not make this toolkit or premade game yourself unless you're motivated enough to work years before you start deving on the game.

    For my process since I make story based games:
    1) World and Character Design
    2) Screenplay
    3) Toolkit, Testing (before visuals)
    4) Planning
    5) Execution, Visuals + Programming
    5B) Marketing while in production
    6) Mastering, Audio and Debugging
    7) Shipment

    Tips
    ) Don't underestimate debugging, if you make a game for a couple months it can take another 2 or so months
    ) Take a month or more to do testing with your toolkit, say you download a pre-made game from the unity store for example, mod it and make games with it first and foremost (make a bunch of short ones so you can find your pitfalls first)
    ) Before visuals, be FLAWLESS at importing, exporting, texturing, animation, etc... If you're using Blender, take tutorials and really take the time to learn every point. With just a team of two like that both programmer and modeler need to know your modelling program.
    ) Use pre-made graphics if you can, there's no point in creating all your own graphics if you're indie and starting out
    ) Plan and use repeating graphics, menus need only have one background window sprite etc... Character sets/sprite sheets with repeating graphics are essential when indie in 2D.
    ) Read as much as you can from other developers about time it takes, look up failed 'successful' kickstarters (they are everywhere) in where they got the money and took another 5 years to release, or in most cases just didn't release at all.
    ) Don't release a game that takes more than 6 months of ft work to make if it's not gonna make you a pretty penny back.

    That's at least one particular strategy. Bottom line, there are toooons of pitfalls and 95% is sh*t you learn only with experience, but you can save tons of time by just browsing these forums for example and reading up on people's experiences and frustrations. You can look on reddits and forums around the net, look for people who melt down and study why, usually it's just that it takes too much time to do what someone wants to do.

    @EternalAmbiguity
    This is so true when marketing and advertising. I spent 10 years game deving and selling my story based games to people that didn't want to play.

    No one gives a sh*t about your story....at first. They will once they love your gameplay. I'm making games as a means of telling stories, but you can't market or advertise to kids anything about story. It took a loooong time before I realized that...
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    EternalAmbiguity likes this.
  6. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Posts:
    29,723
    Pick something you have always wanted to do, then make a prototype so it plays well. Then figure out a way to do 20% of the original scope you planned and you might complete it.
     
  7. astracat111

    astracat111

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Posts:
    725
    @hippocoder
    I just see it like it's hours of time, and I think people don't complete things just due to wanting to be endlessly inspired. For the 9-5 game designer working on AAA titles, it's more than likely not a big deal or overly glamorous as it is to someone starting out, but an everyday humdrum job. They don't expect to get things done at all, but rather they're just going to go in there and work. If the company goes under, they still have a resume to fall back on hopefully...

    10 or so years ago I was making mostly rpg maker games, and I remember starting projects and stopping after maybe a few months in. I don't know about anyone else, but I think my problem back then was just that I demanded this extremely hyped up inspiration from myself, I expected it to constantly always be fun and exciting. Not that it can't be like that a lot of the time, but I think I was making too big a deal about it.

    Not to get all Marxist, but it's amazing how the greatest structures in this world are created by workers who are often disassociated with the work they're creating. Some of the most repetitive humdrum labor over hundreds of thousands of hours creates some of the most beautiful work. I think there's an element of normalcy that has to set in, like it's not a big deal finishing it, it's a game...not to say that it's not important...

    Again with all these toolsets all over the place and plenty of premade graphics, these days I don't see why people would want to start off by using all original graphics, and especially don't understand people who aren't at at least an intermediate level of experience and want to create a big toolset themselves to work with. An rpg takes and rpg maker/toolkit, a visual novel takes a visual novel toolkit, an adventure game takes an adventure game toolkit. If someone isn't making these things themselves, there's someone else that's making these things for them.

    The latter is way better, you save possibly years of work by deciding what genre you want to specialize in like click and point adventure game for example, and you buy a pre-made game or toolset to use, and make only that genre of game over and over. Start with a click and point adventure game that IS that dream game that inspires you, but create <5 minutes of it as a finished product and ship it as a demo or something to get used to getting your stuff out there and reworking it, and then the little brats that make up what is the internet can shame you so you can get used to it as soon and possible and find those people who will follow along with your work I guess.