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The biggest pitfall in game development?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by voltage, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. voltage

    voltage

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    Loneliness. From my experience, I believe zoning in on your game alone is too daunting a task. Sure, maybe you're a gluten for punishment - but the most difficult thing for me about making games is the inherent anti-social norms. You read up faq's alone, you scour the script reference list alone, you figure out bugs alone, play test alone, fiddle with art alone, take YouTube lessons alone, etc. etc.

    I wish making video games was a more social experience. I've not made one friend in the past 5 years of doing this. But in all fairness - there are game jams and meet-ups I'm not attending. I think in part its my own insecurity. I want to be a viable asset, therefore I'm back to the lonesome grind. I want genuine friends who do this sort of thing, you know? I have buddies who play video games, but they don't get it. I know you guys can relate to that notion. I'm finding myself miserable going it alone, but I still like the material essentially.

    I'm committing myself to a game jam this year, hopefully someone scoops me up for their short-term team. Sometimes I wish I went to college for this, but I can't justify the tuition fees. I honestly think YouTube has been more fulfilling for me lately. I started a channel like 2 months ago and scrounged up a measly 17 subscribers, but I'm damn sure proud of it. Results are a lot easier to obtain. You don't have to slave over your work endlessly to push content out the door.

    I suppose my gaming habits are indicative to this mentality as well. I don't really play any solo games. I always want to be sharing an experience with someone.
     
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  2. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I wouldn't describe what I feel as lonliness so much but maybe that is because I've always been a loner for the most part. I've always enjoyed spending loads of time by myself. I see it as peaceful. Peace & quiet. ha ha :) Now that doesn't mean I'm not outgoing or hide from people. I do both. Go out and talk to everyone and then me time for my thoughts and so forth in isolation.

    BUT I can relate to some of what you're describing. I live in a very small town and I do not know any person who is into game dev. Only recently I was talking to a guy who works in the local grocery store and he mentioned he had an interest in and was going to start learning game dev. I asked "Unity?" and he said yeah that's the one. lol

    Anyway this really is a problem I think many of us in small rural towns face. I've often thought how cool it would be to have a small group to meet with once per week and perhaps even team up with on games. But as the majority of people use Unity these days and I don't I ruled that out. I'd need to find people who love "old school" style development. Like from the C64 and Amiga days. Which is even less likely.

    It is the kind of thing that would need to be done online. And there is a thread in General Discussion that talks about this kind of thing.

    So yeah I do get it. For me it is one of those things that would be very cool but I can't see it ever happening.
     
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  3. voltage

    voltage

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    It would be nice. I'd love to have a meet-up group on a weekly basis. I've stuck with Unity rather religiously. I haven't wanted to get distracted with other engines when I could be improving with this one.

    Part of me wonders why not use Unity anyway? Are you taking issue with resolution or something? Don't enjoy Unity 2D?
     
  4. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    I used it often for about 3 years and focused on trying to streamline the development and such. I just don't connect with it. For me I just have always worked with nothing but a programming language and a game oriented api either built-in or library such as Allegro or XNA.

    And all of this Animator, physics systems and so forth just make it seem like such a huge overkill for my needs. I don't get any benefit from the things. And the Editor and just the way every project starts up in the Editor and so forth.

    It's hard to explain I guess but it seems like this massive bulky thing to me that maybe if I had a team of 40 people and a ton of money and tried to make a AAA-like game then I could see using it. But for me... one person used to working in a very different way it all just seems like "too much". When all I need is just a language and an API. Physics systems, collisions, animations, etc for games are just so straightforward to code and done them so many times I have no use for canned solutions.

    And the component-based approach is not something I care for. I see it as taking something that is simple and just making it more convoluted. Again just all an unnecessary thing.

    Well I don't want to just slam it because it is a great kit for a lot of people. I guess simplest thing is for me to say it is just not for me and leave it at that. If I hadn't found another option a month or so ago that allowed me to work in the other way just launch a code editor and start typing in a cleaner just "less" enviroment without all of this gameobject.transform.position etc stuff I'd have stuck with it. But after finding the other option I found that I was correct in my thinking. The other "old school" approach is just so much more productive for me. Not full featured. Lean & mean. Mimimal crap to mess with and think about. It just suits me better.
     
  5. voltage

    voltage

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    That makes complete sense to me in the context of your story. I relate to that very well - but in the opposite direction. I'm rather partial to the component system, object orientation, etc. I take these things for granted, but I rather love them so. Sometimes I feel the animator is clunky or I'd like to not have to perform the same monotonous editor functions every time I import an up-scaled sprite. But essentially I know nothing different. All I've got is experience in Unity, and for the most part I'm quite happy with it.

    Sometimes I wish movement was simpler. I stuck with MovePosition() for pretty much ever, but I'm dabbling in rigidbody2D.velocity now. It turns out physics2D is weird with gravity - but velocity is kind of annoying with all the sliding. I'm just learning Unity2D now.

    I like retro looking games, I'd be interested to see your creations - but I don't see myself branching off from Unity unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  6. Not_Sure

    Not_Sure

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    Post your youtube link and we'll make that 18 subscribers.

    Other than that, go to a freaking bar. You're young, right? Go be young. Find a good neighborhood dive bar. Play pool, darts, shuffle puck, whatever. Sing karaoke. Go up to a pretty girl that's way out of your league and say something like "I have absolutely no idea what to say next, but I really wanted to come up and say hi". Just be safe and Uber it home.
     
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  7. voltage

    voltage

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    I would, but the channel is a hodgepodge of anime and movie reviews right now. I'd be too embarrassed to share it. I am attempting a facebook group for my local area. Hopefully someone like-minded shows up.

    I'm open to the idea of making friendships here. I understand anonymity is fairly important in this setting, so no pressure. Though to make an example of myself, you're correct - I'm only 24.
     
  8. Not_Sure

    Not_Sure

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    Do you really want to just live in an echo chamber online?

    Why not go out to a table top hangout and play some games, or find an anime club, or go to a bar-cade?

    You've GOT to have something to do in your area if you just know where to look.

    I mentioned bar earlier because 90% of all adults all get their socializing done in bars, cafes, or churches.

    If a bar is not for you, maybe find a cafe that is social. Go to an open mic and hear terrible slam poetry and Tori Amos covers. Get all political and mad at a political event. Go volunteer at a charity. Go to a church function (if that's your thing). Go fishing. Go hunting. Go get a beat up $500 dirt bike and tear it up. Go to a local gym and play pick up games of basketball or whatever. Go hiking. Join a bike club. Join a book club. Join a writer's club. Join the military.

    If none of that stuff sounds like you, suck it up and try it anyway.

    Man, just go out and do something!

    What area do you live in? I'm sure no matter how far in the sticks it is there's always something to do.
     
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  9. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    In my experience watching how these things happen around me, trying to force any kind of social thing to happen has a high chance of failure and frustration. Part of the secret seems to be to create opportunities but not expect anything to come from them. I recommend renting a desk at a co-working space for a while. You'll get a chance to meet some other self-employed people of various professions, who generally are interested in meeting new people (or else they likely wouldn't be there). In some places you can rent day-wise, so no commitment to just try it out. Grab your laptop and give it a go if there is such a place where you live. Don't have a laptop? Pen and paper it is then, some of my most important dev work happens on paper.
    Where I studied you don't necessarily have to enroll at the university to just hang out there. If you've got such an opportunity in your area, that's your free alternative. There even where classes where some non-students participated, like the life-drawing class. If you've got any kind of artistical ambition, that's a very valuable investment into your skillset too.
    Going to a game jam sounds like a good idea too. But go there to be at a game jam, make that experience and work on a game - alone if you have to. Chances are you'll meet nice people there and maybe even stay in touch afterwards. If you go there just to meet people, you'll stress yourself out over it and might rob yourself of some good opportunities. Relax, I know it's easier said than done when you are deeply unhappy with your situation. But acceptance often is the last step before actual change happens.
    Going to a gym is also great I hear. Go at the same days the same time, you'll start to get to know the regulars. That more or less applies to any place where people are.
    Sorry if anything had been said before, I haven't read the whole thread.
     
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  10. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    It sounds like "real life" social issues are being conflated with "game dev" (or simply "creative") social issues in this thread.
     
  11. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Yeah reading through the thread just now I got the same thing. I was thinking the OP was talking specifically about game dev social aspects. Wanting to meet up in real life with other game devs to exchange ideas, show their work, discuss problems & solutions etc basically just having someone to connect with locally specifically on game dev.

    It may be difficult for some people to understand. Especially if you live in a city or an area that just happens to be game dev oriented. Here in the state of Missouri it made news several years ago when video game development jobs had increased from 99 jobs in 2009 to 292 jobs in 2012. I'd expect by this point there are perhaps 1,500 or more people in the state employed in game dev. But still... think about how microscopic even 10,000 people employed in game dev across the state is in the grand scheme of things.

    And the "problem" is further compounded by the fact the majority of this activity is in the large cities such as Saint Louis and Kansas City.

    There are some game dev groups around though all are an hour or more away. And my desire to meet up with game devs for a couple of hours is not enough to have me driving 2+ hours roundtrip to do so. Again these are generally located in the larger cities. And I expect most will be using Unity and GMS.

    Occasionally I've thought of running an ad in the local newspaper and posting on the local (town) FB page to hire amateur artists to create video game graphics. I think that could work. I wouldn't advertise for game dev meetup because again I think anyone interested in it will likely be using either Unity or GMS.

    So basically damn that Unity. lol This is one of the problems when one company becomes a giant in an industry and "everyone" only knows about or tries that one thing. Although.... who knows... possibly if I was working with others locally I'd be more inspired to use Unity again. Not sure because I think a part of it is my whole life I've always championed the underdogs. Always figured the "top dogs" huge companies don't need my support and I like to support the smaller mom & pop businesses which many of the other game dev kit companies are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
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  12. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    Yeah, to bring it back round to "creative" social issues...I've certainly had my share of those.

    Game development isn't the only creative endeavor I undertake (I also write and make music), and the OP is right. People really don't "get it." And I think it's important to have someone or something you're working for, rather than just doing alone. Realizing no one around me (apart from standards like family) cared about what I was making has honestly probably been the hardest hit to my "work level" in my life. It makes it a lot harder to see the point in what you're doing (if no one's going to care anyway, why bother?), and to find the motivation to tackle the more mundane problems.

    And it's weird cause it's not related to "real life" social issues. I'm around dozens of people each day, frequently interacting with them. So it has nothing to do with that. Just finding the motivation to actual propel myself forward and do something rather than resting on my laurels and playing a game or something.

    And with that, I'm off...to play Transistor.
     
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  13. ikazrima

    ikazrima

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    Get. Out. As much as you can. Socializing with friends (non-developers) has helped me face similar issue tremendously.

    DON'T work from your BEDROOM. If you've got a laptop just go somewhere, coffee shops, park, ANYWHERE.
    Being secluded in my room for long hours has pushed me into a state of depression. It's also unfortunate that I only have a desktop.

    Changing your working hour might help.
    I found out that working at night/dusk has helped me overcome the loneliness, as strange as that might sound. Maybe because I was already associating night time = alone time. Day time I usually do chores, go out, sleep etc.

    Actually I don't know whether what I said would help you or not. Just saying that it all feels too relatable :\
     
  14. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    Yep exactly. And this is why I still participate here. Basically this is my connection to other game devs. I also participate in other communities but the simple fact is these forums seem to be the hub bub for game dev oriented socialization. We've seen that with others as well such as @ShadowK who comes and goes. Speaking of which I've not seen him around here in a while. Do hope he is alive & well.
     
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  15. steelersfan252

    steelersfan252

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    Go work on a project with other people, get outside more and experience life
     
  16. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Game dev does seem to attract the less sociable. I remember walking into a meet up at one stage and being surprised that I was the most socially adept person in the room. I'm not very socially adept.

    Some suggestions
    • Join the local FaceBook groups for all of the major nearby cities. Occasionally make a trip into an in person meet up.
    • Join groups for other similar intrests. Board game groups, computer groups, ect.
    • Create a group for your own small town. There might be one or two other people you just haven't connected with yet.
    • Grab a laptop and game dev in public. I've spent hours coding in a busy mall or at a park. You can be around other people without having to actually interact with them
    • Volunteer at a local organisation to do something useful. Churches, schools, shelters, parks, ect. These are all looking for volunteers, and helping out gives you something natural to talk about with other people.
    • Interact with your family. That's a bunch of ready made friends that you already kind of know. And in many cases they can introduce you to other people.
    I'm happily married with a couple of kids. That covers 90% of my social needs. Of course this approach requires you to meet someone, which requires some socialization. So its a bit of a catch-22.
     
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  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Same here. Hence why I have over 8,500 messages. I have almost no life. :p
     
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  18. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    That's another way to look at it.

    In terms of the physical interaction with others, my family covers my requirement. In terms of intellectual interaction, the forums cover my requirements.

    The only real reason I leave the house these days is economic interaction. I need to work to get paid. So far I haven't been able to get enough income from my couch at home to cover my desired lifestyle. While an internet connection is fairly cheap, the wife and kids aren't.
     
  19. GarBenjamin

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    For me general social stuff is no issue. Like you said though having a family or a girlfriend or boyfriend or at least just some friends would certainly help people who are truly just in need social interaction. That is not a game dev issue at all. That is just a general life issue (or not depending on if you like things the way they are or not).

    When I was and am completely alone I enjoy it. When I got / get the feeling of getting out and talking to someone I just go wherever and talk. Could be go out to eat and talk to the waitress and cashier and whoever else crosses my path. Could be simply going over to the grocery store. I basically just talk to anyone and everyone. lol

    But I also only feel a desire to do that in small doses. Because I am very content in my alone time. It is like a fortress of solitude. And before my girlfriend came along I found that I basically never had enough alone time. I could go weeks without seeing or hearing from someone and would have been happy but unfortunately that never happened. Someone always calling, texting or stopping by (well "always" to me was like if I couldn't even go a few days without someone texting me I viewed it as man I just can't get any time for myself lol).

    There is a big difference between general social interaction which to me is basically just a bunch of random rambling for no real purpose... AND focused social interaction specifically with other game devs on the topics of game design, development and running a game business, marketing, etc.

    And just like you I come here to get that. Today I have wasted a lot of time here. No idea why other than I found several different interesting discussions going on.

    I do work from home full-time for my job so I don't see people for my job. However, I talk to one or more co-workers and work with them remotely daily via screencasts, phone calls and IMs.
     
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  20. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Not having a good chair. I rectified that this weekend.
    IMG_0906.JPG
     
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  21. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    That's a cool looking chair!
     
  22. Kiwasi

    Kiwasi

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    Looks nice.

    It always surprises me how much can be spent on chairs. My last site budgeted about a thousand dollars per shift operator position per year.
     
  23. GarBenjamin

    GarBenjamin

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    @voltage maybe several of us could just get a group conversation going on that is basically just like a virtual meet-up once per week. Just to discuss progress made during the past week, any challenges faced, goals for the next week, bounce ideas around, etc.

    At least in this way it is like you are not alone and know for a fact there are others working and even know what they are working on for the next week. As they do with you.

    Just something to think about.
     
  24. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    How does that brand compare to DX Racer?
     
  25. Teila

    Teila

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    See if there is a local game developer Meetup in your area. We found two of them and while it is an hour drive to get to the meetings, we have been going and have met some amazing people. It is so nice to talk and people understand what you are saying and they appreciate your passions about your game. :) Nothing like sitting at a restaurant with a bunch of game developers and all sharing our ideas. It is like coming home.
     
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  26. Not_Sure

    Not_Sure

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    Voltage, please reply.

    You're worrying me.
     
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  27. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Optimistically - He's proly just hung over from taking your well intentioned advice. :)
     
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  28. Farelle

    Farelle

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    when i started talking to people in my local area about starting my own game dev business, it was actually surprising how much i found out about the local game dev community, including meetings etc.
    tbh I was worried that my only contacts would be the ones here on the unity forums and some random people i know from games and friends, but apparently that worry was unfounded :) people can be found, when looking for them...and in some ways I guess one has to be boldly asking questions or people out and make it clear that contact is wanted ^^ so no matter how socially awkward one is, the intentions are clear :p (and im very very socially inadept aswell)
     
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