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The Better Lit Shader : Replacement Lit Shader for URP/HDRP/Standard

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by jbooth, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Hi.

    Unity 2020.3.11 LTS, HDRP 10.5.0


    i am missing following Emissive paramter in the Better Lit

    • Emission intensity (EV100, Nits)
    • Exposure weight
    • Emission multiply with ...
    from HDRP LIT Standard Shader
    emission.JPG

    in the BetterLit Shader
    BetterLitEmission.JPG

    Is it possible to add these?
     
  2. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Hi. Could you add an


    Red Metallic
    Green Occlusion
    Blue Detail mask
    Alpha Smoothness

    Slot to the Mask Packer.
    At the moment there a only these two fields available.
    Or did i use it wrong?

    Really helpful would be an invert from Rougness checkbox on the Smoothness field.

    MaskPacker.JPG
     
  3. jbooth

    jbooth

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    There are multiple packing options, select the one you want from the menu.
     
  4. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Hi. Sorry i dont get it.

    I wanna pack a Mask Map with the Mask Packer

    Metallic to Red
    Occlusion to Green
    Detail mask to Blue
    Smoothness to Alpha
    but there is only a Color and Smoothness Field

    Probably i don t understand how to use Red,Gree,Blue,Alpha dropdown.
     
  5. jbooth

    jbooth

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    Oh, the mode was set wrong in the menu item, change MiniTexturePacker.cs lines 23-27 to:

    Code (CSharp):
    1. [MenuItem("Window/Better Lit Shader/Pack Mask Map")]
    2.       static void PackMask()
    3.       {
    4.          InlineTexturePackerWindow.DoWindow(Mode.FourChannel, "Metalic", "Occlusion", "Detail", "Smoothness");
    5.       }
     
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  6. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Hi,

    [RESOLVED]

    Couldn't get URP SSAO to work with Better Lit Shader. Discovered by trial and error than SSAO must be on Depth mode, not Depth Normals. Leaving a note here in case someone else has the same problem.

    upload_2021-7-3_12-37-5.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  7. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Some features requests:

    * Ability to make textures non-repeating. It's very difficult to put useful grime textures on objects right now, because most grime textures start from the bottom and work their way up. On a building, this often means the ground gunk repeating halfway up the building or a wall, and there's no good way to resolve it. It would be awesome to be able to disable texture repeating on texture layers.

    * Noise stretch. Puddles on roads tend to be stretched out because of natural grooves. The current puddle feature makes nice and round puddles in a way they don't really ever appear on roads. It would be great if the noise texture could be stretched, ideally with an angle, or less ideally, in X or Y.

    * World space control textures. Things like snow, rain and wetness need to be controlled in world space, or there are abrupt changes where meshes line up. While you can insert a map to control where snow lands, this map isn't in world space, and therefore not terribly useful for drawing things like snow accumulation. Ideally, I could draw a map from the top down of where snow accumulates, and project it into the snow mask in every shader. Then I could do intelligent snow accumulation, like not under a roof. I could even do a raycasting calculation and generate a texture of where snow can land.
     
  8. jbooth

    jbooth

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    Usually this is done through a second UV set. You can disable texture repeating on a texture via setting the texture to clamp mode, but I think what you are talking about here is having the texture repeat but only in one area, after some other area is displayed.

    The texture mask, which has the snow mask in the alpha, can already be sampled in whatever space you want to sample it in. It doesn't have a specific "projection area" you can set, as it was designed more like a noise function, and thus centered around 0,0,0 in the world.
     
  9. perholmes

    perholmes

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    But regarding the Snow Mask, this is still in the exact UV coordinates and tiling of each object. For example, here I'm using a noise gradient as the snow mask. This example if to put a circle of snow in the middle of the road. The road itself is made of multiple meshes, each with potentially different UV scaling. But the snow mask is strictly tied to the local UV coordinates of each mesh.

    So you can't do a world space map for where snow accumulates. One single map that works consistently across many meshes, just like noise can work in world space for puddles. Here I can't scale the snow mask (the circle) without also scaling the snow texture. And since the intention is to cover snow accumulation across many meshes (street pieces, curb, grass, sidewalk, fence), it's unlikely that even a single snow scaling will work for all objects. Small objects tend to have dense UVs, larger objects less so. And some objects repeat UVs.

    So this is why the suggestion is whether you could allow mask sources to be in world space.

    upload_2021-7-3_18-2-44.png
     
  10. jbooth

    jbooth

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    So the texture mask follows the space chosen by the main texture layer; so it can be in world space- but only if that layer is. What would be nice is to have a projection mode, where you can set the world space bounds of a texture projection. However, I’m currently at the 64 local keyword limit, so can’t add something like that without adding a small cost to every shader using the texture mask. (That limit is being removed in 2021, but that’s still a ways off). Having it just on the texture weight map wouldn’t be that bad, because when it’s not in use it wouldn’t have cost. Ideally, I’d have masks be separate for each feature with a channel selector- but that would require more keywords.
     
  11. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Hi,

    It sounds like you're warm to the idea. I'm glad! But let me also argue against it. Basically, I was making a shader graph to do this, and it worked, with two caveats.

    1.) Even if you have the ability to project a snow accumulation mask from above, the toolchain is incomplete. It's not completely trivial to get an orthographic image from above, paint the snow accumulation in Photoshop, and then get it scaled and aligned with the landscape. It also only works within a certain box, so you need to either be able to cover your entire scene in one go, or break up all your materials based on where they are. And with the intention being that you can set a threshold so the snow can grow or shrink, it's actually hard to paint a pattern that does this satisfyingly.

    2.) Even if this were perfect, snow accumulation as a pure shading thing isn't satisfying on its own. I've been putting snow textures on a mound collection from the asset store, and then pushing them up through the ground based on how much I want accumulated, and this looks like real accumulation. But it doesn't play nice with SSAO where mounds join, and it's very manual. Yet, it looks more real.

    I think it would be a great thing if it were possible to control features in world space, for example by just being able to load 4 control textures, or one control texture with 4 channels, and then simply selecting with dropdowns when a layer or feature should be controlled by it.

    But I also imagine you want to develop features that will be used, so I had to bring attention to it being an imperfect solution, even if you do it perfectly.
     
  12. perholmes

    perholmes

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    On the two other feature requests, I take them back.

    1.) Stretching noise to make long'ish road puddles: I actually think the correct solution is for the road to have proper height map grooves where cars drive so that you can height-mix the puddles. This will make the puddles form first in the wheel tracks. And then with a coarse noise map, it won't be everywhere. I believe in this solution the most.

    2.) Ability to make textures non-repeating. Indeed, textures let you control this, although it's hard to make it work for the current geometry I'm stuck with. But I find that using seamless grime textures that don't indicate where the ground is is just as creatively satisfying. And then the only work is to pick a good scale and noise mask.
     
  13. perholmes

    perholmes

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    But a new feature request or bug report:

    Puddle Contrast is active, even when the Puddle Amount is zero. I was assuming that Puddle Amount == 0 would disable the effect, but you also need to reduce Puddle Contrast to zero in order for the shininess to go away. I have to imagine that this is a bug or a side-effect. The surface still looks wet with just Puddle Amount at zero.

    Ideally, Puddle Contrast would make its way to zero behind the scenes when Puddle Amount approaches zero. Otherwise, it's an automation burden to create some kind of curve map for Puddle Amount to control Puddle Contrast.
     
  14. jbooth

    jbooth

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    In the example scene reducing puddle amount to 0 disables the effect. Do you have height maps in your textures?
     
  15. perholmes

    perholmes

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    I might have height maps, but isn't that the intended use. Even if the puddle feature disables completely under ideal circumstances, why would it ever keep adding to specularity with amount == 0 just because of the contrast slider?

    It's putting me in a bind, because in order to do a proper weather change, I need to be able to trust that amount == 0 is off. But it isn't, and it appears I have to make some kind of mapping also also control the contrast in order to get it turned off-off. That's a lot of work, and this is going onto thousands of objects. I need some kind of reliable ground truth.

    Is there ever valid circumstance where Puddle Contrast is affecting the surface even when Puddle Amount is zero?
     
  16. jbooth

    jbooth

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    It should have no effect when puddle amount is 0 - but I could imagine an edge case where if the height map data was blank it might show through..
     
  17. perholmes

    perholmes

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    But is that a bug then, or something I actually need to account for my weather automation, to basically control both parameters in order to make sure that contrast also goes to zero when the effect is intended to be off? It does sound like a bug.
     
  18. jbooth

    jbooth

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    A bug, that's why I'm asking you if you have height data in your diffuse alpha or not. That's the only thing I can think of that might cause an issue like that.
     
  19. perholmes

    perholmes

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    I don't know. Both the Better Lit Shader and the assets I'm working with are new to me. Could the clamping options be affecting this. I believe the textures don't have height maps, so I'm clamping the textures to some low height in order to be allowed to put things over them.
     
  20. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Checked the actual Better Lit (1.2.5)
    in
    Unity 2021.3.x LTS, HDRP 10.5.1

    and there are still the same errors for Bakery SH and Bakery Volume.

    Posted it again in the Bakery thread...

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/bak...preview-released.536008/page-107#post-7305388

    Would it be somehow possible to test these standard bakery behaviours before releasing an new Better Lit version?
    Think there are a lot of Better Lit purchases because of the Bakery features. But all my tests on simple Bakery standard scenes went negative. Would be nice if at least Unity LTS versions would work.
    DiretionalSH and Volume integrations are the most needed here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  21. jbooth

    jbooth

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    2021.3LTS is not released, so not sure how you're testing it on that version. Assuming it's a typo, no, I don't have a way to test bakery - it requires specific GPUs on windows, so Frank does the testing of that stuff and sends me the code.
     
  22. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Sorry. Meant 2020.3.x LTS.
    Sure. AMD´s are not supported.
    However. Bakery runs on most NVIDIA GPU´s.

    You don´t have to rebake the scenes.
    You can see if a the bakery better lit options are working on already baked scenes, too.

    Let´s see what Frank says,

    Would it help when i upload my extended Bakery, BetterLit project with side by side comparission?

    top row: Bakery originals
    last row: BetterLit Bakery
    green -> ok
    red -> broken

    Directionals_BetterLit.JPG

    leave this actual full list of broken issues here for others who face similar problems:

    BetterLit Shadowmask L1 probes broken
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/bak...preview-released.536008/page-107#post-7306663

    Better Lit SH and RNM broken
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/bak...preview-released.536008/page-107#post-7305388
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  23. newguy123

    newguy123

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    This asset looks awesome. If I purchase Better Lit Shaders, will it work out the box, or do I need to purchase Better Shaders first?
     
  24. jbooth

    jbooth

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    Better Shaders is only required if you want to modify the shaders.
     
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  25. newguy123

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    Things like microsplat and megasplat, is that mainly for terrains?
    (just trying to wrap my head around your various interesting looking products)
     
  26. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Would you consider adding an animated wave pattern to puddles, like you have in MicroSplat? Currently, puddles are calm as a mirror, even in a storm. Just an animated noise pattern to jiggle the normals.
     
  27. jbooth

    jbooth

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    I don’t have a ripple option in MS; they both support rain though.
     
  28. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Yes, so this is why I ask if you would consider it. This is an easy thing to do in a shader, and you already have it in the corresponding puddle module in MicroSplat. Perfect Lit Shader is an incomplete solution without it, because it can't do bad weather, only nice rain.

    So this is why I'm asking if you would consider porting it over from MicroSplat.
     
  29. jbooth

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    I don’t have such a feature in MicroSplat, unless your referring to the streams system..
     
  30. perholmes

    perholmes

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    Hi,

    Yes, it's the streams system, but it can be even more trivial than that. In ShaderGraph, it's just a couple of nodes. Even just a static texture of a noise pattern added to the normals and just animated in X and Y creates enough ripples that it looks like a proper puddle.
     
  31. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Yay.
    Latest Better Lit 1.26 fixes directional SH annd RNM bakes with Lightmap specular.
    For me this is the most useful upgrade for HDRP at all.

    Thanks a lot to jbooth and Arthur.

    SH_yay.JPG

    left: SpecSH Graph
    right: BetterLit SH

    2.JPG


    Open issues:

    Better Lit Volume Shadowmask has still some issues.
    middle wagon : Better Lit Volume
    other wagons: Bakery Volume Graph

    Volumes.JPG

    and there are also some BetterLit Shadowmask issues on the dynamic capsules left.
    See bright illumination spots on the right sides of the dynamic capsules.

    Shadowmask.JPG


    I sent a HDRP Test project with all these Bakery HDRP standard scenes (carefully converted from BuiltInRP) and an additional Better Lit version to Mr.F.
    You can directly toggle between the blue marked ones.



    scenes.JPG

    Give me a message if you find it useful too. I can send it over.
    Every scene bakes in less than an minute and its probably an good test scenario for the BetterLit Bakery extension.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  32. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    additional HDRP decals (water puddles) and SSR are working nicely on BetterLit

    decals_ssr.JPG
     
  33. jbooth

    jbooth

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    I’m traveling for the next month and on a MBP, so can’t even run bakery, so frank is the best person to handle it. But thanks for making a nice repro.
     
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  34. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Wish you a nice trip.

    Hope Mr F can fix it but it seems to be an problem related to this.

    Mr F:
    "Yeah it seems to be a general BetterLit problem (using tangent normal instead of world for looking up probes in HDRP?"

    Screenshot: See tanline generated from Better Lit when L1 probes and Bakery Shadowmask are used.


    Shadowmask_quick_probe_fix.JPG
     
  35. jbooth

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    I don’t actually have probe lookup code in HDRP, it’s all handled via unity includes, which take a structure with a world space normal as input. So not sure what’s going on there.
     
  36. duminju1990

    duminju1990

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    @Rowlan Can I know if reflection also work in puddles or the blood splatter like in your example? Can this be easily set in better lit shader?
     
  37. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Hi Jason.

    I sent this repro to Mr.F

    under 2)
    https://forum.unity.com/threads/bak...preview-released.536008/page-107#post-7346300

    you can see that the Better Lit Shadowmask issue (tanline on moving capsules) happens on

    Progressive Lightmapper with BetterLit (Screenshot 1)
    and
    Bakery with BetterLit (Screenshot 2)



    3.JPG


    4.JPG




    This is the right result with HDRP Lits. (no tanline on moving capsules)

    plm.JPG


    It s nicely visible by fast toggleing of these scenes i sent to Mr.F.


    Unbenannt.JPG


    According to ....
    "I don’t actually have probe lookup code in HDRP, it’s all handled via unity includes, which take a structure with a world space normal as input. So not sure what’s going on there."

    What information exactly you would need from Unity. I could ask them when i get a little more info on that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  38. jbooth

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    I’m not sure really- I base my templates on the shader graphs, which basically fill out a structure with all the data, and normal in world space, and pass it to functions in the HDRP includes.
     
  39. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    This shadowmask issue remembers me remotely on this issue i had have a while ago.

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/area-light-shadowmask-broke-in-2020-2.1023391/

    It was fixed like so.
    https://github.com/Unity-Technologi...mits/98ac2c91f60974390607a8f49069854105600117

    But not sure. Hardly guessing here.
     
  40. bluebrain

    bluebrain

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    Hi there

    In the standard lit shader we were using metallic maps with the smoothness maps in their alpha channel.

    In the better lit shader there are no slots for either metallic or smoothness maps.

    Are variances in metallness / smoothness expected to be achieved by using texture layers?

    That feels like a rather significant workflow change. We'd need to change maps & make significant manual material changes for hundreds of materials in our project.

    Hoping someone can confirm, or clarify if I'm missing something. Thank you!
     
  41. jbooth

    jbooth

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    There are two packing modes for textures in Better Lit. Fastest, which uses only 2 textures but doesn't provide a metallic texture (but has smoothness and AO packed in with the normal), and standard which has full support for a metallic and smoothness texture. Note that I don't use the BIRP or URP packings, because they are extremely wasteful (using 5 textures for a full PBR surface instead of 3, making them slower than they need to be). All of this is described in the documentation.
     
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  42. bluebrain

    bluebrain

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    Thank you kindly. The concept of packing those materials into the RGB channels of a single texture had not crossed my mind. Clever! I'll dig into the documentation.
     
  43. keeponshading

    keeponshading

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    Hi Jason,

    Mr F did some test on the Better Lit Shadowmask issues and gave me this message:

    "
    :D
    This is something on BetterLit HDRP side, not related to Bakery integration. I did some debugging on my own today and shared some thoughts with Jason.
    "

    Do you have an rough ETA for some fixes?
    This is the last big issue for me.


    HDRP Lit Shader -> shadowmask rendering of moving capsules is ok

    plm.JPG




    Progressive Lightmapper with BetterLit (Screenshot 1)
    and
    Bakery with BetterLit (Screenshot 2)

    You can see that the Better Lit Shadowmask issue (tanline on moving capsules)


    3.JPG

    4.JPG
     
  44. jbooth

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    im traveling for a bit so unlikely to dig into the issue any time soon.
     
  45. bluebrain

    bluebrain

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    Hey there. I have hit a wall on the tint mask. I'm trying to use it to achieve somewhat of a decal effect, to color just one area of the material. The material has nothing else going on, to simplify further, it's just flat grey for these screenshots.

    If I set the mask map's alpha to "from gray scale" I can achieve the desired result, but any pixels that are not 100% white in the mask (such as the edges seen below) darken like this:

    upload_2021-8-6_16-57-5.png

    Every other thing I've tried, including TGAs & TIFs with transparency, alpha, both, R G B and A channels of the map mid-grey, black, white ... combined with various settings of the R G B A colors in the Tint Mask panel, etc ... results in either the model being black with the desired tint color, like this:

    upload_2021-8-6_17-3-34.png

    ... or if I set the A color to mid grey, the material's base color is not blackened, but the tinted area ends up being very bright / emissive.

    upload_2021-8-6_17-12-2.png

    I'm out of ideas. Am I missing something, trying to use the tint mask in a way it wasn't intended ... ?

    Thanks!
     
  46. jbooth

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    are you running the latest? There was a bug fix a while back for tint masks. That said, I can’t tell from your description exactly what your trying to do, or what data you are actually using, or if your just not understanding the way things work. If upgrading doesn’t work, I’d need shots of things like the material, the mask texture, etc.
     
  47. bluebrain

    bluebrain

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    Purchase date was July 21st, release data says 1.2.7 but package file says 1.0.9

    Here's the base material, no tint:
    upload_2021-8-7_12-58-19.png

    Here's the desired result, almost:

    upload_2021-8-7_12-58-43.png

    The problem is that the only way I have managed to achieve this, after EXTENSIVE experimentation with maps and ting mask channel color settings, is for the map's alpha to be set to "From Grey Scale" which results in dark fringe where pixels are not 100% white.

    upload_2021-8-7_13-0-55.png

    Every other combination of values (black, grey, white) in the channels of the mask map (PNG, TIF or TGA) combined with any setting of the Tint Mask colors, results in either this: (orange is right, but the rest is black)

    upload_2021-8-7_13-2-56.png

    or this: (the rest is right, but the orange is bright)

    upload_2021-8-7_13-3-48.png

    I don't think it would be fruitful for me to show you the setup at this end, because I've tried MANY combinations of different mask textures and material settings. As above, I've tried black, grey, white in each of the R G B A channels of the mask map, I've tried saving files as PNG, TGA, TIF with either solid black or clear for transparency, with / without black grey or white in the alpha channel, with different alpha channel settings in Unity, etc. I could show you one, or dozens of combinations that didn't work. I'm pretty thorough and can't think of any combinations I didn't try.

    If it's possible to achieve what I'm aiming for, which is a clean (no fringe) coloration of one area without modifying the rest of the material I think we'll get there quicker if you can indicate precisely how that can be achieved. Thanks! Much appreciated - I wouldn't ask if I hadn't exhausted every combination I could concieve of.
     
  48. jbooth

    jbooth

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    Again, without seeing your data it’s very hard to know what your doing. If all you want is a single color of tinting the texture should only use the red channel and the other channels would have to be black, including the alpha channel.
     
  49. bluebrain

    bluebrain

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    I appreciate that, I would like to send you data, but I think you're not hearing me on this: I have tried dozens of configurations:

    - PNG with white in the red channel and black in the others
    - PNG with white in the red channel and grey in the others
    - PNG with grey in the red channel and black in the others
    - PNG with grey in the red channel and grey in the others
    - PNG with white in the red channel and matching transparency, black in the others
    - PNG with grey in the red channel and matching transparency, black in the others.
    - and so on, then:
    - TGA with all the above configurations plus black, white or grey in the alpha
    - TIF with all the above configurations plus black, white or grey in the alpha
    ... removing all the main layer maps to troubleshoot ... etc.

    ... and for each of those I have experimented with the R G B A tint colors ... so, which non-working data do you want me to show you; the first one that doesn't work, or the 50th that doesn't work? I'm not meaning to express attitude in that, I just don't have "data" (a map and tint mask settings) to share because I have tried dozens.

    Here is what I get with your suggestion above, which is intuitive and the first configuration I tried:


    upload_2021-8-7_15-1-44.png

    If I change the A color to 50 grey, I get this - the orange (red channel) becomes emissive.

    upload_2021-8-7_15-5-1.png

    I get these same results whether it's a TIF or TGA like below, or a PNG without the alpha.

    upload_2021-8-7_15-1-28.png

    The only way I am getting the desired result (almost) is with these settings:

    upload_2021-8-7_15-9-1.png

    upload_2021-8-7_15-9-37.png

    That looks as expected; but, zoom in and the semi-white pixels of the mask map are dark.
     
  50. bluebrain

    bluebrain

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2014
    Posts:
    29
    Example, with a gradient dot added to the R channel of the mask to better show the darkening that happens in transition from opaque to transparent.

    upload_2021-8-7_15-13-9.png

    Thanks for your assistance.
     
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