The Asset Flip (The Jimquisition)

yah, everybody using the simple city assets ... They good but all games looking the same.

 

And in a generation obsessed with visuals over gameplay, I'm surprised there haven't already been riots in the streets over games using the same models. Even might and magic caught flack from their fanbase from reusing some models!

 

My first thought is "why don't they just watch movies?" Seriously. If this generation is obsessed with how things look instead of the actual game than why even bother with games? Most movies these days have excellent CGI and they have the benefit of lighting and camera angles being set up for each little scene. Definitely the way to go if you're into how things look above all else.

 

Looks like the greenlight page got taken down.

 

That's why I don't understand telltale games. With the minimal interaction and huge focus on storytelling, they should turn up the graphics in order to compete with movies.

 

Try interactive fiction or visual novels. Last telltale game was mostly the same thing. Those kind of genres mostly try to bootstrap your imagination, boosting visual quality won't improve the experience much (but it will eat your budget).

 

That is the one reason I have not bought into Tell Tale Games The Walking Dead franchise (and I like The Walking Dead).

 

Well if you're into zombies and games with tons of mechanics & features, I strongly recommend 7 Days to Die

 

7 Days to Die looks like a glorified version of Rust with zombies.

Never cared for Rust.

The one zombie game I did kind of like was The Walking Dead: Survival Instincts (even though many gamer's hate it).

I just wish it was not such a linear game.

I have made notes and a design document and written/tested some code to play a FPS zombie survival game similar to it.

 

7 days to die tagline is
"the survival horde crafting game"
should be
"the horde survival crafting game"
amirite?

 

It did at one point, but both games have gone in different directions now. Rust rebooted and looks a bit like h1z1 now. 7 days got alpha13 and now has ark/rust-like harvesting where you get materials over time as you strike different objects with different tools. But the similarities end there for rust and 7days.

7days is more like minecraft with better modals. You have voxel terrain and block materials (metal blocks, wood blocks, concrete, etc) for building houses. Terrain voxels like dirt will join in a smooth way.

It's worth looking into. If not now, definitely in the future when they throw some survivor ai in.

7days is probably the ultimate zombie sandbox. 12 was good, 13 is great, 14 will introduce content with purpose (on the fly procedural treasure hunts!), and some updates later you might even get your own little group of survivors to protect and or mutilate.

 

Oh my, Tomnnn.

First of all, I doubt every indie game developer is going to use the same model, in the same way, with the same textures.

Second, I realize you play a lot of games. But..not every one does. And most people play similar genres. Even if my favorite games are RPGs, and I buy a game every week, I doubt I will recognize the same model in the same games.

My guess is they would look very different....image effects, palettes, scale, textures, shaders, etc. all have a big impact on how a single house would like in different games.

When Jim talks about Asset Flipping, he isn't talking about that. He is talking about when they take a Complete Game from the asset store and turn it over without making changes.

Today's generation is about graphics..yeah, but not about models. They reuse stuff in movies all the time and I bet you rarely notice. The graphics folks want are the colors, the tones, the depth, the art style, etc.

This thread has become sort of the Tabloid thread of the Unity forums. A lot of opinions stretched to convince others that they are true but very little fact to back them up.

My guess is only game developer gamers care about whether a crate in one game is the same one as in the other game. lol

Also..there is some danger in this as most Indie developers can't afford an entire game full of custom assets. So good asset developers provide us with models that are less expensive and not exclusive. If you guys keep pushing this, then that option will no longer be available...and good games, with good mechanics, that are unique and different, won't be able to use non-exclusive models without being called names on some You Tuber's videos.

 

I think there is a lot of truth to this ^^^

Actual gamers out there play all kinds of games with all kinds of graphics whether they are original or not. Yeah I am sure there are some weirdos somewhere who flip back and forth between games comparing trees and grass and so on but those are certainly not the ones I want to cater to. In fact, it would be great to weed them out early on.

 

Absolutely!!!!

 

Do you see which thread we're in? Of course I'm talking about the handful that will and do

Or in the case of a developer like digital homicide, he's talking about a developer buying 1 model in putting it in 6 games. However what you mentioned is a far more significant issue.

Depends on what it is. I'm only 23 but I'm already tired of hearing the wilhelm scream in movies.

My opinions weren't stretched, they're simply enormous!

Well, any game that doesn't use procedurally generated crates is trash anyways

 

Obsessed with visuals? Maybe your average gamer buying blockbuster games is into fantastic graphics, but the indie scene is awash with abstract styles and 'unrepentant' low-key graphics as if it's the new thing. I think graphics have never been more derided in the indie scene as they are now. It's probably some kind of reactionary thing against big-budget studios but you aren't the real deal anymore unless you make some achingly beautiful game with a two-color palette about a block trying to find its way in the world.

To be fair, these games are probably harder to make than the average 'realistic' one, at least in terms of artistic ability. But they don't really do a lot for me. I like great, high-fidelity graphics with a good measure of cinematic effect. I like games that are part movie, part game, like MGS. Games that satisfy with a rich story, great visuals and fun game mechanics at the same time.

On the topic of asset flipping though, I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. One M-4A1 is as good as another, and you'd think artists would have made enough of them to go around by now. Another jeep? Another drum/crate/box/shelf/chair/table/bed whatever? The asset store is overflowing with basic stuff and they don't give us enough information on what people actually need.

Using the same asset in a game is trivial for me. Someone could use the same character, I don't care, the movies do it all the time! The question is, is there a good story and is the story well communicated through the character? Not to mention, is the gameplay fun?

 

If it were like an asset flip, the character would have the same name, role and even the same lines. The issue jim talks about isn't reusing models but using them out of place. Using different asset packs with clashing art styles to make a franken-game.

My friends who have younger siblings - those siblings are all graphics over gameplay. People I met in college - all trying to get better gpus because they only play games if they can on the highest settings. Even close friends wouldn't play something like Factorio because of how it looks. And of course in d3 vs d2 debates, graphics always factor in to that arguement somehow.

Maybe unity forums are a safe space from this nonsense (although there are usually a few threads about unreal graphics vs unity graphics on the main page).

 

In the asset flip strling says "I'm tired of seeing the same zombie in every game" or something similar.
That's why I didn't like the video. Intentionally or not, he opposes idea of asset store, model shops and databases.

 

Yeah that is my idea of an asset flip, although it seems a lot of people have much more rigorous morals, like not wanting to even use a generic character creator. And a franken-game is not so much a question of a bad approach to acquiring assets as it is a pure and simple lack of effort to create a cohesive experience.

I wouldn't call it nonsense, factorio is a different sort of game from some AAA character-driven title. It is a totally different genre. And graphics makes an experience in a way that lack of graphics doesn't. It isn't an add-on, it isn't a cosmetic tack, it is a fundamental means of communication of story and atmosphere. It is like listening to an orchestra compared to someone strumming a guitar. Sure they can both sound good (or bad) but the experiences are fundamentally different.

I hope that Unity forums never become a safe space from indies trying to push the boundaries of what is achievable.

 

He probably wouldn't have that problem if they didn't all walk in the air I'm sure he wouldn't complain if he liked the game.

My art is terrible but I'd still rather use something unique. I'm a gameplay > graphics person to the farthest extreme. I'll make a unique poorly modeled stick figure for each game I don't have anything against generic character models, I just like to think that everything in a game is mine... which is why they're all silent. I haven't a clue when it comes to making game sounds.

A cohesive experience. I think a random asset mashup could work if you intended it to and put the different styles into the lore somehow. But the issue I hear talked about is there doesn't seem to be any thought put into it. The models are all just the cheapest available. An environment pack, and enemy pack, a character pack.

My friends would rather play madmax or generic racing game just because of visuals. Even if they would mechanically enjoy factorio, they can't get beyond the resolution. I'm loving it, it'll probably be in the top 3 for playtime by the end of next month lol.

I doubt it. The people who I've met that are overly concerned with graphics are certainly not the type capable of game development (sorry friends!). In order to get them into game development, you'd need the visuals of unreal and the ease of development of game maker (the drag and drop portion of it). You could probably sell them rock simulator if the pbr textures were good enough.

Ugh, some gamers.

 

Clashing art styles is a problem but you can use assets without that problem as long as you pay attention. That has more to do with the inexperience of the game developer, not the assets.

Your friends' younger siblings and the "few" threads about Unreal vs Unity graphics plus "your friends" are anecdotal, not fact. There will always be "some" and "few" but that doesn't mean we make decisions about our games based on anecdotal evidence.

I do think art is important, sometimes as important as the story or mechanics, but I don't think that any particular style is important. A stylistic approach, pixel games, low poly scenes, toon style, and photo-realistic, all have their own style and beauty.

The games that I choose to play are not the style that many people play. Popular indie games are definitely going to appeal to less of the market than the AAA big company games, but because there is more variety, and the ability to be more innovative and take more risks, the indie market is going to be split into smaller pieces. However, the number of gamers more open to trying indie games has increased. So..there will always be those who will "only play AAA games" there are also those who prefer Indie games...and some who cannot find their game among the AAA games, only among the indie games.

Now, my own anecdotal stories...I know a lot of people who play indie games, my teen and young adult kids among them. But then, my circle of friends includes more people who enjoy story based games, role playing, unique games with unique styles. I can't extend that to all gamers and say they are all like my friends, but many of my friends are the types buy a lot of games, but at Indie prices rather than the $80 for a new AAA game. The are willing to try new kinds of games and are looking for new experiences.

So..I think your experiences and mine probably cancel each other out.

 

I think you presume a lot about people. Maybe your friends actually liked the generic racing game because they enjoyed the graphics, what's wrong with that? Maybe for them factorio was simply a bad game? Mechanics is only one part of a game, or we would all be playing Skinner boxes.

I think you also presume a lot about people who are 'overly concerned' with graphics. I know all kinds of people, there are as many people wasting their time trying to reinvent minecraft as there are trying to make a 'AAA' game. The ones who never get anywhere have something in common and it has nothing to do with a preoccupation in graphics.

 

Yeah, the thing is, games are not paintings, art is relatively lifeless until you give it movement, context, action. The art is a sum of all the ways that it interacts with the player, and the way it reflects on and off of other art, all of this is up to the developer to create. Only someone who has no idea what they're doing would look at a character or a model and think it has only one possible avenue of expression.

 

As indies we can't afford to anyway

If you want a larger sample size, the first thing that comes to mind is anime. People notice when the budget for a second season was less because it's reflected in the animation / art dropping in quality.

That is the nature of the complaints. Broken games with no direction on greenlight.

You would think so, but I have a game dev specialization in my degree. So if we're in the same country, by the power invested in the college systems, my opinion has more weight on the matter! Unless you have a similarly valuable degree to weigh in on the topic