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Terrain Composer2 a next generation GPU powered terrain tool.

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by eagle555, Sep 16, 2012.

  1. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    This is good to see. This is a very weird question, but when do you think you'll be "done" adding noise/procedural generation features to TC2? I ask this because I'm planning on using that as my sole form of terrain generation for one of my projects, so I'll need to tweak the settings until I have something that works well with a bunch of different seeds. Just yesterday, for instance, through the use of a hotkey script and screenshot program I took 3000 images (2.54 GB!) of my terrain, with the seed for a perlin node going from 1-3000. And of course if something new and cool comes out after I've already established the settings, I either can't use it or need to start from the ground up.

    So basically, I want to have all of the noise features available for when I tweak the settings to where I want them to be for the rest of the project. Any idea when that would be? I realize this is an odd and kind of difficult question.
     
  2. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    You can actually make some pretty decent looking ones with a little work.

    2016-08-05_14-12-54.png

    Started a new project, imported TC2. Made a 3x3 terrain. Added three separate heightmap nodes: 1 Perlin, 1 Billow, 1 Multifractal. Started by changing the x and y scale to 50, and turned Clamp off for all of them. Left Octave as it is, but changed Persistence to 0.7 for Multi and Perlin (leaving it at 0.5 for Billow). Left Lacunarity at 2 for all. Left Perlin seed at 0, changed Multi seed to 250, and changed Billow seed to 500. Added a Blur, with 15 iterations, to all three (make sure Clamp is off!). Then I made them combine with 2 "Multiply" combinations rather than the Add (I think it's Add by default).

    Adding the default splat textures and messing with their heights, as well as adding a separate water asset gave me the above. That was a seed of 0 (for the whole thing, for the seed on the node tab of TC2). A seed of 250:

    2016-08-05_14-13-17.png

    And a seed of 500:

    2016-08-05_14-13-38.png

    So with a little work there's quite a bit of variability. But I definitely also look forward to more options.

    Edit: I'd reeeaaaally love to be able to set pixel error as 1 and it save that...
     
  3. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Next enhancement request: Allow scripts to be moved without resources being moved.

    I use MAD Compile Time Optimizer to move asset code into less-frequently-changed-assemblies. It moves code but not resources. The addition of the following lines to TD.cs at line 97 allow it to work on TC:
    Code (CSharp):
    1.             if (null == AssetDatabase.LoadAssetAtPath(TC.installPath + "/GUI/Buttons/Button_Minus.psd", typeof(Texture))) {
    2.                 TC.installPath = "Assets/TerrainComposer2";
    3.             }
    Thx, R.

    p.s. MCTO is a great asset but the latest Unity version made it temporarily not work. I'm sure it'll be fixed so yes, I'm sticking with it :)
     
  4. johnmcmahonart

    johnmcmahonart

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    I'm not really sure what the issue is since I've coded stuff using libnoise and gotten good results (oddly enough with a very similar setup to your perlin billow multi fractal setup). I think some of it is that a lot of times when I add nodes they don't render properly and I find having to always scale the fractal annoying/counter intuitive. If we always need to scale why not make the default smaller? Also some weirdness with multi terrain tiles. Since I have a deadline for this project of tomorrow I'm just using a single tile since things act more predictably. I was thinking of buying world machine to use for stamping but if Nathan is adding additional nodes maybe I'll wait.
     
  5. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Strange idea just occured to me while fiddling with Ridged Multifractal noise:

    Could maze-generating algorithms be included? It'd be kind'a sweet to include actual maze-like canyons in part of the terrain!
     
  6. eagle555

    eagle555

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    That's indeed a bit of difficult question :). I added new noises to TC2, but the 'old' ones are still there and didn't change them, so should still work with beta 6 settings. Probably that's what you mean? That the new update will change your current settings? Well basically if there's a cool noise that I didn't know of yet, why not adding this? If I leave the other ones untouched, then it should be fine...

    Sounds a bit complicated what you are working on, maybe you can explain in more detail? So I can have a better picture. Why do you create 3000 screenshots of seed 1-3000, to see which ones look best/usable?

    If things are not working can you show screenshots? Yes the default noises need to be re-scaled for the height output. But on other outputs like splat mixing, etc a small scale makes more sense. Anyways it doesn't really matter what the default is, you can tweak the noise node to your liking and just drag and drop it on your project or Hierarchy window as a preset (can do that for any node or even layer/ layer group), I think that's pretty intuitive:
    http://www.terraincomposer.com/terraincomposer2-documentation/#presets
    Also you can drag and drop node with holding alt button and they will clone, control-d duplicate, so redoing every node with the defaults is not needed at all ;).

    Yes multi terrain isn't working perfect yet, in beta 7 I fixed all issues encountered so far, so should be way better.

    Yes although I have the option that the install folder can be moved. So TC2 can be moved into another folder. I do this by detecting for a script in which folder it is. So I have to use another way for that then.

    Nathaniel
     
  7. impactit

    impactit

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    U have almost right, byt TS is not working TC window is not appear), and after Unity restart U.5.4 force me to reset layout .. so there is an serious problem.

    Cheers
    Andrzej
     
  8. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    Not that your settings will change them, but if you add something like erosion, and I want to add it in, I'll have to re-generate a terrain and tweak the settings again to get it to look good.

    I made 3000 screenshots of the seeds just to see which ones look good. The way the final product will be is that the end user can pick what seed they want, rather than a terrain I chose. That means I need to work with the settings to get something that looks good with many different seeds.

    To see what I mean, take Voronoi for example. I already have a decent looking system or set of nodes for getting good looking terrain. However, after you add Voronoi, I'll definitely want to add that to my setup so it has more variability. However, after I do that, my "good looking system" will have to be adjusted with Voronoi to look good. I know it will look good--but I'm just saying that if you add new features, I'll have to re-design my system to include those new features. Basically I almost have to "start over" every time a big "procedural generation" feature is added. Does that make sense?

    Apologies, I did say it was a weird question :p And it's not like it's a big deal, I'm just curious as to where the focus for TC2 is going to be in the future so I can plan accordingly.
     
  9. docsavage

    docsavage

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    @EternalAmbiguity, you must have some ninja levels of patience there:) Seriously though if you start to go down the route of all the terrain possiblities from noise generated terrains then imagine how long it could take. Just mixing a couple of noise nodes with different masks and scales of noise etc and you are getting into big numbers of terrain. Dont forget if the game is not a fly over view of terrain most players perception of the terrain topography will be different to your unless you have also tested the levels in game view mode. A great looking terrain from above can be a nightmare to traverse in 1st/3rd person unless you have controlled it well.

    Re the players choosing a level based on a seed choice and not a provided terrain sounds fine for a lower number of seeds but if you are offering a choice of 3000 seeds I can't imagine anyone but the most commited going through all of them to make a choice. I'm no expert but I'd say you are digging yourself into a real hole here. If you can share some of your project idea and you may find help from others on this thread that save you a massive amount of time.

    Just a few thoughts:)

    doc
     
  10. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    It actually wasn't difficult at all. Through the use of a hotkey program, which would press "Backspace" 4 times and then enter Var+1 and then press Print Screen, and a screenshot program to automatically save that Print Screen, I didn't even have to be there. And the use of some angle-based splat textures in TC2 allowed me to see the slope of the terrain.

    I'm not planning to have an option of 3000 seeds, I'm planning to have an option of an infinite number of seeds. I was just going through "a few" to see how they progressed. And I don't plan for each player to click between them all. It'll be an input field where they can type in the seed they want, and then see what the general look of the terrain is.

    Basically, the idea is to procedurally generate a new world at runtime then populate it from there. I'm planning a sandbox type game which is focused on AI rather than a story-focused game so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. The idea is that you'll get a unique experience with every different seed because of a "domino effect" of the different AI systems (that's the idea anyway).

    I'm just making sure I get decent looking results. I appreciate the tips though. I'll definitely make sure to actually play through a bunch to see how traversing the terrain feels.
     
  11. docsavage

    docsavage

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    Glad you not expecting players to choose from 3000 levels:D But who knows. It's part of the fun for some people.


    Sounds like no small job. But an interesting one:)
     
  12. Quast

    Quast

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    you did not answered my question !
    Can i make rivers and waterfall ?
    TC videos show kind of things like if there are trees or grass far from camera display and if the camera get close it show up. Is this something normal ?

    Thank you
     
  13. eagle555

    eagle555

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    Yes that because you have other errors in your console not TC2 related. If these are not fixed Unity doesn't compile scripts and TC2 won't be compiled and won't show. If you try TC2 in an empty project, you'll see that it works...

    Yes it makes sense :). Although you are not forced to use the new noise/features, so starting over is 'optional'. But I get what you mean. With the noises in beta 7 you have the complete mature and advanced set of noises that you need for good looking procedural terrain. What is planned later is the erosion node, but that should not have very big impact in redoing everything from scratch. As erosion makes existing settings look better. So on the noise side I'm not planning to add big new noises features, of course unless there's some awesome free noises that I'm not aware of. As it's easy to implement new ones.

    Sorry I missed to answer your question. Yes you can make rivers and lakes simply by subtracting a rive stamp (currently can use the road stamps) or multi fractal noise, or noise which can be masked etc to get the shape you want. This works with a water mesh with an overall water level.

    However having more advanced river that really streams down a mountain you need to have a mesh in the shape of the lowered terrain and I recommend to use easy roads for it:


    Yes this is normal as grass distance can't be too far do to performance. However there's a solution in the making and will be a big performance improvement for Unity terrain grass:
    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/co...e-trees-multithreading-and-more.401139/page-4

    Nathaniel
     
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  14. Quast

    Quast

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    Thank you for your reply
    Show me please video or images. and what about waterfall ?
     
  15. docsavage

    docsavage

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    Just to chime in but the easiest way I have found to set up waterfalls is to just paint them in using the terrain tools. Just make sure opacity is low enough not to eat into the terrain too much.

    Irrespective of the technique you use to draw the waterfall topography the biggest problem I've come across with them is finding a decent actual waterfall that doesn't decimate fps. I managed to cobble together something with a mix of a mesh conformed to the terrain and adding Aquas to that.Then by adding some particle effects for the spray and base of the waterfall. Wasn't pretty and the more particles the worse it gets. If anyone can point to a good waterfall solution that would help a load of us.
     
  16. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Could TC export a flow map?
    Several shaders (including RTP IIRC) allow one to produce various stream/river looks with one of these!
     
  17. docsavage

    docsavage

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    forgot about RTP etc for making streams.

    Don't know about flow maps but you can make a copy of the terrain and then make that a mesh using the height to obj script on the wiki (until Nathaniel adds terrain to mesh to TC2). Then cut out the mesh sections that will be rivers etc.
     
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  18. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Nice!

    The flow map is used by the shader to show the river flowing in the right direction at each point. Easy to create if you have the relative height information, if imagine... Which TC will!

    Actually @eagle555 could we have a general purpose 'export to' node/setting, please?

    I imagine it might be generally useful for game needs.
    I use voxel snow and need height information to inform base heights for snow generation. I can build it myself but perhaps you already have something that can be done easily?

    Thx, R.
     
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  19. EternalAmbiguity

    EternalAmbiguity

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    Yeah, it's just a pet, side project. I'll probably be working on it for years, but it's interesting and thus enjoyable.

    Sounds great, thanks.
     
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  20. JBT27

    JBT27

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    I'm having a problem with Random Noise. All the values, excepting Seed, don't appear to be changing the terrain, in fact they're not. In the preview, in the TC_Node(Script) I can see the noise dancing about when I drag the values, although it doesn't change noticeably in shape, just dances about like white noise. No errors in console.

    This is Beta6Patch7. I think I saw mention that all the noises are now working, but Voronoi is not active for me.
     
  21. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Hey, until Nathaniel replies, here are a couple thoughts:

    1. Re. the seed not affecting, you're absolutely right.
    Only seed (and a seemingly hidden parameter called frequency) affect the Random noise kernel (I checked the source). On the one hand, I'd argue it'd be preferable to hide parameters that don't affect a given node. But on the other, I'd also say this isn't finished software so Nathaniel's likely planning that and we should give him a break when sometimes there's a tiny kink ;-)

    2. I don't believe Voronoi is available yet.
    When I add it to my graph and look in the Inspector, there's a message in bold under "Input Noise" saying "This noise will be enabled in another beta release.". (I agree it's confusing why it isn't shown in the TC window where other similar messages have been.)

    HTH, R.
     
  22. JBT27

    JBT27

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    Thanks. No pressure from me - just taking the time to report stuff that seems not to make sense.
     
  23. impactit

    impactit

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    Yes ... thesame

    Cheers
    Andrzej
     
  24. eagle555

    eagle555

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    Thanks for notifying, I don't have the seed value linked yet, will do this for beta 7.

    With the convexity node with negative strength (concave) you can get kind of a flow map. This can be used with 'Color' output to make a colormap.

    Nathaniel
     
  25. ForceVFX

    ForceVFX

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    Quick questions before I upgrade....should I just delete all of TC & keep WC?.....what is the best way to uprgade an existing project? What about normal map export, I just did not see that mentioned.

    Thanks

    P
     
  26. eagle555

    eagle555

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    TC2 is a new tool and you can use it with TC1 in the same project. They can't read each others files. If you don't use TC1 anymore you can delete it. Normal map exported still needs to be added to TC2 and I'm working on this for Beta 7.

    Nathaniel
     
  27. AndreyO

    AndreyO

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    Hello Nathaniel. Is it possible to orient objects according to terrain normals? For instance for placing stones over sand dunes
     
  28. Arkade

    Arkade

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  29. Arkade

    Arkade

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    For any Terrain Composer users who don't already own it, the excellent Relief Terrain Pack (RTP) -- recommended by TC author @eagle555 -- is 33% off as today's asset store daily deal!

    (FYI I'm not related to either of these products -- just wanted to help our little community of terraformers to make great looking worlds :) )
     
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  30. ldl01031

    ldl01031

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    Newbie question... What is the advantage of multiple terrains (versus one)? It makes sense to me to only instantiate some things when the player is reasonably near to them. Is this where multiple terrains can help? That is, instantiate objects (whenever it makes sense) only when the player enters that specific terrain? Does Unity manage memory better with multiple smaller terrains? Back in the TC1 days, I tried putting different vegetation on different terrains but the cutoff between them was much too abrupt. Does TC 2 improve that? Any big distinctions in 1 vs multiple terrains that I may be missing? Thanks in advance for thoughts...
     
  31. CSCAPromo

    CSCAPromo

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    Some reasons:
    • Culling - only draw terrains that the player can see (to be honest though, I'm not 100% certain this happens automatically though.)
    • Updating tree, grass, and texture data on large terrains can take noticeable longer than on smaller ones. Granted, you have to manage more terrains, but if you need to alter the actual terrain data, doing it with large terrains can be painful.
     
  32. shwa

    shwa

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    Does this now work on OSX?
    If not, what's the ETA?

    (I'm running OSX 10.8.5., I hope it will work on 10.8.5.)

    thanks.
     
  33. Arkade

    Arkade

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    That's funny, I'd assumed it was more to do with balancing memory against image map resolution (or something in that vein (of minerals ;))).

    Regarding occlusion, isn't it likely dealt with in other ways? (E.g. Unity occlusion / TC proximity enabling... Or is that latter what you were referring to?)

    Also, does TC2 have different sets of trees/grass per terrain?

    But meh -- I worry I'm still a bit of a terrain noob so I'd be interested to hear corrections or other/official answer(s)!
     
  34. Recon03

    Recon03

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    Doc, I normally make my own... some people don't know it is NOT hard but not easy to make a water fail look more natural.

    I spent many years on and off making them look right.. What matters the most is the type of water shaders you are using.. Particles for the splash and when then actually happen.. But the water shader is one of the important aspects, mixing the correct blends of color to get it right.... Look at a water fall, then look at actually water... Are they 100% the same color... No. It has a prefect blend of colors .. I would be happy to help you Doc, just hollar.. It takes alot of tweaking to get it the way you want it. as well.. But the mistake most people do , is overload particles.. Which is a waste. You need some for the splash at the bottom, some at the top, and some going down, if the scene is needing it.. But a prefect balance is needed .. and again the correct blend or colors, for the shaders matters the most.
     
  35. Recon03

    Recon03

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    Multi Tile terrains are important for Streaming, this way the tiles are not appearing during runtime, when the player is not near them..... Which helps for performance big time.. Check World Streamer to understand it more if needed.:) I use Multi Tile terrain for over a decade for 99% of my games... Med , or large maps.. period..
     
  36. Recon03

    Recon03

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    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/55649

    This works well, and I even use it on a very small scale for Android/..But looks great with RTP, and TC2..
    Great for flow maps. Check out Mari which is made by Modo , The Foundry, which is amazing for Flow Maps .. Not sure if we are allowed to post external links so I won't be look up Mari Flow maps ..
     
  37. docsavage

    docsavage

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    Thanks Recon:)
     
  38. AndyNeoman

    AndyNeoman

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    Hi guys, Could anyone point me to the best tutorials for getting up an running with TC2 (a bonus if it includes using with RTP).



    I have tried the one above but get no changes when I select noise/rigdedmultifractual. terrain just stays the same flat plane. The layer node is blue instead of green/yellow. I activated height node but it just turns red not green. Using a fresh project in unity 5.4 with just RTP, TC2 and speedtree free package added.
     
  39. zelgo

    zelgo

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    the blue nodes are for masking only. put them in the green part to the left of it
     
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  40. Deleted User

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    Hi
    I'm having a few issues with Terrain Composer not working correctly. I firstly created a test terrain which worked as intended. However the next time I went to create terrain it was going fine until I came to placing the trees. When I click to add a tree to the layer none of the tree's appear on the terrain. From comparison with the tutorial video the layer node is black not red as it should be.

    I haven't edited any of the base files and I am unsure what is causing the issue.Here is an image of the TC2 window as well as a video of what is happening when I try to add a tree.

    terrainTreeIssue.jpg


    I also have this issue with placing rocks as well, when I open the rock section it brings up a message of No object nodes are active. Also when trying to use perlin noise for example nothing shows up in these sections (but it does in the height section for example. Here's another video of what happens with the rocks.



    I've tried re-installing but that didn't make a difference. For background information my terrain is 140x100x140. I don't know if it being smaller is making it not work but I don't see why that should be the case. I hope it is just a small issue somewhere but I am unsure of how to fix it. Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2016
  41. Alex3333

    Alex3333

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    Some of the pieces of the map after a few updates, you don't want displayed correctly. how to solve this problem. upload_2016-8-11_19-44-52.png
     
  42. Marc2000

    Marc2000

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    I want to create a terrain with more than one tile. I have now the following problem: I see a "seam" between the tiles and occasionally I see the background in the seam/between the tiles, as if they were not connected. Finally, I also try the Tc_SetNeighbors script. But this looks even worse.


    Examplepicture: Tiles x:2, y:2 each xyz: 2048m Stamp: Volcano (decreased y) Version Unity 5.3.3.f1, TC 2 newest
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  43. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Probably a red herring but which shader are you using? (I noticed this with RTP with POM enabled but that was due to the RTP heightmap having been copied to all tiles.)
     
  44. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Yeah, I've seen this once or twice. Touch something to cause it to regenerate and it'll likely go away. Maybe there's a very intermittent timing-related problem hidden in TC somewhere?
     
  45. Marc2000

    Marc2000

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    TC2 has obviously the Stitch tool not yet integrated . My mistake. I use now another tool for stitching - works for me :)!
     
  46. mkgm

    mkgm

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    @Nathaniel
    Please release the RTP integration.
    Thanks.
     
  47. Killersan

    Killersan

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    Hello Nathaniel. any news about release date for patch 7 ?
     
  48. rasto61

    rasto61

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    I remember when in june I was hoping to try out and learn TC2 on a long flight from australia to europe. Its mid august and I still cant (osx) . I understand you probably have a lot of stuff on your plate, but I remember somewhere you said that you would now able to focus on TC2 full-time. I would really like to use TC2 for a project with a deadline in october where most stuff besides the environment has now been completed. Do you think you will be able to release the osx version this month or sometime in september? or would you advise me to just use another terrain solution?
     
  49. Alex3333

    Alex3333

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    Here the developer appear at all?? Can anyone suggest how to solve my problem? Some pieces are not painted over as needed. Regeneration does not help. What to do? the screenshot above is.
     
  50. jonfinlay

    jonfinlay

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    I have to say I'm really disappointed with this developer. I bought v1 in order to upgrade to v2 on 31 March based on the breath-taking video and with the understanding that the features in the video had already been developed and it was just a case of working on the UI. It's now 13 August, the current version is brimming with bugs, deadlines are put back time and time again, and at this rate it won't be out of beta until well after Christmas. Too many of the promised features are absent, too many bugs are present, and too many questions asked here are left unanswered.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016