Tech tree: reveal unreachable nodes, or hide them?

We're making good progress on a tech tree for High Frontier (though we call it a "project tree" as the nodes represent projects, not technologies per se).



But we've come to a decision point: do we show all the nodes at once, including ones currently well out of reach? Or do we hide those, showing only the nodes you have, ones you can immediately do, and maybe one more level beyond that?

The benefit of showing them all is that you can perhaps plan further ahead, mapping out a route to some specific technology you want even if it's far in the future. I often do this when playing Civ Rev; the game for me is won by whoever gets tanks (Internal Combustion) first, so I make a beeline for that.

But the benefit of hiding them is that it increases the "mystery box" effect, and gives new players in particular an extra incentive to keep playing. They want to find out what wonders might lie over the next technological hill, which makes the game more sticky. If we just tell them what all the wonders are, then the fun of discovery is much less reduced.

So I'm torn. What do you all think?

Thanks,
- Joe

 

Hmm, tough one. Achievers will want goals and they will want to see what is ahead. On the other hand, since they are projects, it seems more realistic to now know what project is next.

But...to look at a third hand, after the first person finishes all the projects and reveals the boxes, a diagram very similar to what you have above will be posted somewhere on the internet. So..hiding might be fun, but it won't be hidden for long.

 

If you really want to balance it out, make it so that lopsided specialties are unfeasible. Make high end power generation and the serious consumers on opposite ends of the tree. In effect, create dependencies outside of the tree.

 

As a lifelong civ fan, I of course, bought Beyond Earth, I played it for 2 hours the uninstalled. I knew what broke it for me and turned me off too: the tech tree.

It so happens that BE is a bit mystery box. If you think you need a mystery box to keep new players then you're on incredibly shaky ground game design wise. Above all what keeps new players are rewards and the cycle that brings with progression. You can't progress toward unknown targets and still feel inspired. With Civ at the end you had the mysterious "future tech" which most new players probably never reached for a while!

Classic civs 4/5 etc have it just right but I cannot stand Beyond Earth's. Just my 2p!

 

You didn't even get to the biggest problem with it. The worst part about it at launch was you could win with probably twenty percent of it done. You could easily be blindsided by the "cultural" victories in what would otherwise be the mid-game.

I'm feeling adventurous enough that it might be time to go back and see if it's been improved.

 

Thank goodness.

Other thoughts about tech trees: In Civ 5, you generally won't win if you bee line toward a tech at higher difficulties. This depends largely on initial resources. If you have a lot of gold you might be able to get away with warmongering for a while but at some point you're going to need the older technologies you missed or your production grinds to a halt.

That kind of balance is why Civ is so good, and that kind of balance was entirely absent from BE.

 

This is all great feedback. Thank you, all!

 

I just threw my hat into the "show 'em" ring for all the good reasons stated above. So currently, excluding the fence-sitters, it's unanimous (at all of 2 votes ).

 

It's nuanced. Civ shows 'em. WoW shows 'em. LoL shows 'em. Often, simpler, mobile games will hide them - to bring the mystery box - 'wonder what's next?' GTA also hides 'em. It depends on the game, the audience, and your motivations as a designer. Games like Civ, Wow, and LoL have so much else going on, that the tech tree is just one small facet.

Gigi

 

The tech tree is not one small facet. Without that, civ fails *entirely* as a game.

 

I agree that Tech trees are hugely important in Civ/CivRev. It adds a massive amount of fun, replayability, and strategy. I also think that the core mechanics could work without them. Say, for instance, that the techs were massively collapsed, and there was some simpler linear way to gain new units & buildings (ex. tied to year, pop size, or scenario). Yes, it would be a different game, that wasn't nearly as awesome, and it could still be hecka-fun.

Gigi

 

A game like this also lends itself to representing scientific research. Perhaps some things are known & researchers have mapped out a path of how they can get somewhere by researching intermediary tech whereas other applications may not be known/considered until researchers hit a point & then someone says "hey, what about.....?"

So, my view is that in this game you could feasibly offer a mix, show some tech trees that you feel are fairly well supported by current theories & hide other branches that may be on more shaky ground. Depending how people play some players may never find all the research branches & still win/have fun while others may discover some & have a different play experience.

 

A lot of players like to see all of their options and spend time thinking about which ones to pick, and in which order. The "mystery box" approach can work against this type of play.

Also, I think I'd be bummed if I spent a lot of time taking the wrong path on the tech tree (if that's possible).

 

lol this is my 2 cents

okay, so Elemental: Fallen Enchantress
kinda cool game, but kinda buggy ..

anyway, so, one of the first things i noticed when i first played it is that i was letdown that the tech tree FEELS small
its actually like, Decent .. but of course as a player id wish it was like 10000000 techs LOL

so yeah, i seen techtree, the whole techtree and i was like WTF THATS ALL!!!? LAME!!
but iam super picky about games, and totally bring the mood about games of my friends down LOL

oh so anyway, i spent like a week modding in a bunch of new techs (weapons, items etc) to the tech tree and then i quit playing the game LOL
lols i think i deleted the files... lols ><

 

You are building a simulation. Simulations are all about players making decisions based on a ton of information. The trick is to reduce the decisions down to simple choices that won't overwhelm the player. But hiding information isn't what will appeal to your player base.

You are looking for the Civ and the Kerball players. The players that will occasionally spend hours googling to figure out a solution to a particular problem. So relying on mystery isn't actually going to work with your player base. First person to unlock everything posts it online. Encouraging players to leave your game isn't a good idea. Who knows what other games they might discover in their googling.

 

This sounds really convincing to me on many levels.