Surforge 1.4.5 - 3D rendered PBR texturing in Unity

One issue that I'm having with transparent materials, is that they don't render the material below them in Surforge. Is it possible to do this? I'm trying to use the transparent material to show the material beneath it. Is it possible? Thanks!

 

The easiest way to create layered materials is to use paint layers in Surforge material properties.
There are 2 paint layers per material, with separate specular, glossiness, color, and optional opacity noise effects.
This is usually sufficient for most effects materials naturally have, such as worn or dirt layers.

When a completely separate material is needed, it is better to use separate texture details for that. As Surforge texture details are meshes, you could easily arrange texture details. Don't forget, you could use Unity transform tools to move texture details, and also up and down, to achieve layered effects.

In the special cases, you could model the necessary mesh in your 3d editor and use it as a Surforge texture detail. Just drag your model to the scene, select it, and press 1-8 hotkey to assign material ID, and make it render by Surforge. It is also possible to use separate alpha texture per Surforge texture detail, if the detail has proper UVs. You could assign it by selecting the mesh with Surforge ID material in Unity Inspector tab, scroll down to material and assign alpha texture to the base material texture. You could check how this effect used in striped/dotted Poly Lasso object prefabs, which have alpha and render details beneath.

 

I added a new model to the details tab and I could place it but it would not show up on render. Turns out the manual did not say that you need to assign a special material too. When I did though, it would render fine.
But there are multiple materials used for the different details so I wonder what are the differences between them.

 

There are 4 types of shaders which determine how Surforge renderer captures texture details:

Id0-Id7 are regular material masks.

Id0Floater - Id7Floater are masks for embossed details. These are rendered in separate pass without generating ambient occlusion around details, only inside details. There is a technique in texturing called "floaters" - while the mesh is in fact above surface, it looks like embossed into the surface. You could find some of details with floater effect in Add Detail tab.

EmissionId0, EmissionId1 are masks for emissive details with glow around effect.

SurforgeLabel, SurforgeText are for labels, rendered above all materials, with separate color tint, optional separate albedo texture and opacity noise effects.

 

Hi, I'm trying to use stylized material packs I bought from asset store with Surforge, but I can't add those materials to the materials list no matter what I tried. One thing I noticed is that the shaders of the materials you put in Surforge\SurforgeMaterials folder have Hidden/SurforgeSingle shader. Do I have to modify those material shaders to match to have them shown?
I can't find anything related to adding materials to use in videos or the guide.

 

Hello,

Surforge uses its own format of materials, which include powerful features like worn edges, paint layers, tweakable noises, texture rotation and so on. Unfortunately, you can't just use third party materials with it out of the box.

But, most of the times, it is possible to recreate desired materials as Surforge meaterials with similar look.
1. Run Surforge, open Materials tab, drag-and-drop some Surforge neutral material, like gray plastic to some part of your texture in Surforge Texture preview window.
2. Hover the part of texture with that material with mouse pointer and press "Ctrl" hotkey, to edit the material. Now you could see properties of your material in Surforge Material Editor, under the texture preview window.
3. Apply the needed maps to corresponding material fields, like Albedo, Normal, Occlusion, Specular (or Metallness, depends chosen material workflow). Try to tweak other material options. You could see instant feedback of your material look in Surforge texture preview window.
4. You could export the material with down arrow button at the right of the button with material number. The exported Surforge material saved in "Surforge/CustomPresets/Materials". Rename the file, and put at the desired subfolder of "Surforge/SurforgeMaterials/" (you could create new subfolder there) for future use. And finally, press "reload" button at the top of Surforge material tab, to see your new folder/material.

 

Hello Sergeyv, is there any news on a demo version?
I think Surforge could potentially help me speed up my workflow, but first I would like to give it a try if possible.

I can't find any example videos of how Surforge is used in conjunction with an HDRP project in practice.
My current high-poly baking + Substance Painter approach is pretty slow but also has its advantages.

 

Hello,
Unfortunately there is no demo. Surforge shines at texturing simple human-made objects in a bulk. I believe Surforge is great addition to general task workflow. But please keep in mind, it not suits for texturing human faces or living nature (drawing/sculpting tasks).

Surforge can't run in HDRP project. But, Surforge exported results can be entirely used in HDRP project. The same as the results of work of standalone software.
It is proven approach to install Surforge into separate new project, which will be your "texturing factory". Surforge itself is not needed when using its exported results.

HDRP has a different layout of the channels of the textures, although texture information itself is the same.
You could use Unity built-in converter to update Surforge exported Standard materials and maps for HDRP.
You could also use your image editor to move needed channels within the textures.

 

I remember that you had mentioned that pipeline renderer was in plan,so is it possible that URP could be supported in the futher?

 

Probably yes.

The future Surforge is standalone app, fully functional outside of Unity + optional Unity Editor interface/connect asset.

Managing texture details scene, renderer, tons of Surforge prefabs, in general, things that bothered you in your project, go standalone. This also includes new features: easy and powerful 3d modeler and UV editor.

On the other side, project friendly things: composer shader and material editor interface with instant feedback, will be available in Unity asset, fed by needed masks from outside.

This design is full of benefits: It keeps your project clean and things consistent. Does not depend on Asset Database speed in huge projects. Allow to work on multiple models at once. Less depends on rendering pipelines and Unity updates.

According to the plan, Unity asset will probably also support URP / HDRP.

Let me show this random screenshot from development:

By the way, check one of handy features of future Surforge: separate viewports for the scene and for texture details management, available at the same time.

 

I am not a pricker but I am curious that what is the major advantage when comparing to other numerous material/texture tool as a standalone software. Modeling and texturing in the same time?

 

I'm having two issues with Surforge in a new Unity 2021.13 and 2022.1 project:

1. It isn't rendering glossiness / smoothness. The smoothness IS showing up in Surforge itself and looks amazing, but, checking the metallic map export, there is no glossiness data in the alpha channel at all. There is alpha data, but it's just an even greyscale color, it's missing the glossiness maps in the Surforge textures.

2. Using linear color space, the exports are very dark. I can tell just by looking at the albedo file that they are rendering far too dark. Looks fine rendering in gamma mode.

Please help! I love surforge but I'm stuck here currently.

 

1. Just checked it in 2021.3.13f1, works as intended.
Glossiness at the alpha channel of exported _Metallic is ok.
I'm investigating it now, trying to reproduce, and checking other Unity versions.
Could you please try to test it on clean new project, on materials with contrast glossiness?
Does this work for you in a previous Unity version you used?

2. Linear textures should be "dark" (the information in file) before you have gamma corrected them. This is the whole point: all operations over the texture in linear, gamma correction at the final stage.
Do you have "sRGB" option disabled in Unity Inspector? It should be disabled for linear textures.
Please try to export from Surforge under a new name (to create a new material). Does the exported material look correct?

 

Productivity, the main idea of Surforge. Quality results with a minimum of effort.
Non-destructive pipeline, since texture details are meshes. The ability to easily make changes if necessary.
Instant response when editing material, as material composer runs on GPU.
Ability to experiment with the material/color designs easily, ability to store several color designs in one scene and switch instantly. Easily transfer material sets between models, especially useful if you need to texture many objects in a similar style.

 

Ahh-haa! I had no idea about the SRGB option in linear color mode. Turning it off fixed the darkness issue!

As far as the not exporting glossiness, I had to do a TON of testing, and I'm still not exactly sure what was causing it. I'm using a file I packed with the excellent Anfadev Channel Blender, in Unity 2021.3.16f1, and in 2022.1.22f1 it sometimes causes it to render the (fully black) metallic as red instead of black. It seems to also only do it using a custom surforge material - the built in surforge materials don't have the issue. Since it's rendering red instead of black, it's increasing metal-ness, which was making the smoothness invisible in the texture It turns out it is still rendering smoothness to alpha when it does this.

It appears to work properly 100% of the time in 2021.3.13f1, which I installed to test. So yay! I tried literally around 100 tests to isolate the issue and I can't get it to do it reliably. Sometimes it works fine in those other versions, depending on how I go about things. I've included this material that seems to do it in those versions, but I think it works fine in 2021.3.13f1.

Thanks so much for your fast response, I'll let you know if I discover anything else. My issue is resolved and I'm back in business! Thank you so much for the great support and this wonderful tool, it's so much fun to use, and there's really nothing else like it. THANK YOU AGAIN! You're amazing and I can't wait for the standalone version

 

I have been doing 3D art for 30 years, and Surforge is easily the most fun I've ever had texturing. For one, it runs on the GPU so there's no waiting on anything, and you're also looking at it very very close to how it'll look in-game.

Something like Substance Designer is great for making the basic textures to use with Surforge, which is something Surforge wasn't made for. But Surforge cuts down on the number of textures I need to keep in my library by about 75% or more.

Here is an example, I made all of this today in a couple of hours, using only a single simple (free!) wood texture and a metal texture. This is all just lit with the skybox cube maps in Surforge. You can also add your own. (I was thinking about Doom today and was feeling brown lol)



That's just all on a plane, imagine what you could do with a cube! (That wood texture does NOT have any planks in it, I added that depth with Surforge using the poly lasso tool!) I also love that it lets me be a bit messy if I want. Things can look more hand made and less sterile. Screws can be a little off sometimes. Spacing doesn't have to be perfectly even (unless you want it to be). I also can get a lot of mileage out of what I make by swapping the material set for color and full material variations.



Surforge is amazing for creating geometry and depth using very very simple textures, and it's easy - I don't have to mess with huge graphs just to create geometry. I don't keep any textures around with geometry in them anymore, or for dirt etc anymore, only the very basic plain materials. If I need things arranged in any way, even if I need that texture for Surforge, I can make that texture in the app itself on an as-needed basis. So it's really cut down on my texture hoarding and really keeps me in the moment. It's all so fast too, my 8 year old GPU and computer are overkill to run it.

There's so much more, even the subtle scratches in the wood are from the "add detail" tool, and they are 3D objects you can just move around easily. You can see how it looks seamlessly tiled by clicking a button, so I was able to move details around that stood out when tiled. The dirt where the different surfaces overlap is done automatically, and is fully adjustable on its own material layer. I don't have to keep a bunch of dirt maps around, you can just modify the noise. Basically very reason I have to hoard things instead of making art is eliminated!

(it also looks good on edges)

There's way more. I haven't even gotten into the poly lasso tool, another tool that smashes poly lasso objects into pieces, and the detail objects - it saves me from having to do 3D modeling, and it also really helps to keep my poly count super low while still looking amazing. There's even more I'm leaving out because this comment is so long already.

Surforge is also great at creating visual depth and you can easily modify that depth, too. It supports Ambient Occlusion, so the result of layering is stunning. Poly lasso objects can just be moved up and down in the 3D view, the layering and dirt underneath / next to the overlaps are automatically shifted, rust and edge wear are applied.

If I decide to make changes later, I can very easily change out all of the textures or move the detail / lasso objects etc. There are so many more reasons to love this texturing tool. As a solo developer, I would not be without it. Once you get over the modest learning curve, it's basically a constant dopamine rush to use. My three words to describe the Surforge experience are fast, fun, and cheerful!

By the way, I figured out a great tip to seamlessly tile poly lasso objects: just set the X or Y scale to 4, and it will seamlessly tile an infinite length. btw THANK YOU for this tool Sergey, there is absolutely nothing else like it. I'm super excited to be on this ride with you.

 

Thank you for positive feedback, I'm happy you like Surforge.

I noticed in the material you attached, "Detail Intensity" value in the Glossiness group of controls set too low, making glossiness details hardly noticeable. You could increase it to get glossiness detail in exported alpha more pronounced.

By the way, there is a handy feature: if no metallic/specular map assigned, Surforge could extract specular/metalness and glossiness from Albedo texture for you, based on that group of controls.

 

Oh, thank you! I was probably really tired, as I was up until 6am texturing lol. Also, how can it create the glossiness, is it automatic?

BTW, you know what would be amazing? A simple cloth sim. Fluent Power Trip does it, and it's open source so you could see how they do it. https://blendermarket.com/products/fluent

 

One last creation, this is an actual screenshot from Surforge using the screenshot function, really cool and I had no idea it did this! I learn something new every time I call it the Pleasure Cube

 

It takes the brightness range of the texture, adjusts contrast, intensity, and shift of the range. Its like if you create glossiness from texture with "Levels" in your image editor, but right in material on the fly. You control the result with a couple of sliders.

Yes, this is nice feature to have. The starting point for this kind of thing is to represent the model as polygons, not triangles. Fortunately, future Surforge includes 3D modeler. Being half-edge data representation based, it has more than enough performance to run real time updated mesh generators. It opens up countless possibilities.

 

Why? For sanction?

 

That's awful. I hope you'll still be able to sell it outside of the Unity Asset Store, or at least the next version of Surforge.
I would also like to know why it will be removed from the Store if you can share more info.

 

It is pathetic!

 

Anyway,did you plan to separate surforge 2 from asset store or Unity in futher? I remembered that you had mentioned that

 

Hopefully this is something that can change in time. I'm not saying you should wait longer, I'm just saying this may eventually clear up.

 

Sorry to hear that.
I'm upset as well.
I'll check if as a customer I can make a complaint.
Best.

 

I am delighted to learn that you are an independent developer. Do you have any online games? Could you share them with me? I would like to experience them. Thank you.

 

Rockefeller is a huge investor in Unity and is on the team to discredit Russia for its Ukraine involvement.
Sorry about the politics but this shows the behind the scenes victimization. I could continue about Burisma/Biden but that is enough right there.
Unity has gone woke. The screwed investors are clamouring for dollar feed but have not the tech ability to make this happen for they guillotine the community at any lash bat. If they don't want you then you can not buy or sell with out the mark.
And here we are.
I have this product and use it. It is like the accolades here state. Amplify shader is suffering a similar fate with Unity copying it along with rigging. Unity could have just stayed away from the indies and let each other ride the coat tails.
I have 50 years in computers, electronics, graphics and software and have seen this type of Biz model before. It doesnt bode well.

 

It might be a bit untimely, but I still want to ask: Is there a possibility of future support for URP/HDRP?

 

It depends entirely on whether the problems with payments are resolved.
I still haven't received my payment for December 2022.
Please treat with understanding, I unfortunately just do not have the opportunity to work for free.

If everything starts working as it should again, namely, payments on time, there will be updates.
If it still makes sense by then (people will continue to use, new users appear; I highly doubt the damage can be repaired), I'll resume work on the URP/HDRP support.

 

@Sergeyv_3d , that is pitty, since Surforge is probably one of my favorite tool to use in Unity. As matter of fact, it is the only reason why the game RemiLore was possible. It was built entirely using Surforge. If issue with Unity isn't solved, then please don't give up and make the standalone version reality. I will support that 100%.

 

I'm in too.

 

Thank you very much friends for your support and kind words.

Work on the standalone is in full swing.
I really like the flexibility and coherence possibilities it opens up.
In the new design, to create custom prefabs, you even don't need to export your materials and models. You just save the scene with all your models and materials, as in regular way, to appropriate folder.

I aim the prefab based approach, existing Surforge has for texture details, to also apply to modeling. Just pick some details (with prebuilt UV seams), add it to your model, edit as needed, and pack your UVs with a single click. Edit your models and texture detail models on the fly for even more flexibility.

 

I'm a bit confused. Does the standalone version mean it's separate from Unity? Why can prefabs still be used?

 

Like kitbash library in 3d editors.
It loads models and materials from the scene of custom format into dictionaries, then you click icon and instantiate.
Technically not Unity Editor prefabs.

 

Looking forward to this!

 

Hi, if I've purchased the Unity Store version, is there an additional charge for the new version?
Is there a development progress roadmap that explains the features of the new standalone version?

 

Hello, thank you very much for your purchase.
Standalone is wider than the texture editor. It is huge amount of work, so I'm afraid yes, additional charge.

The main new feature is powerful, easy to master model editor meeting modern standards.
Fully integrated into pipeline, it allows to edit your model, while keeping your texture detail work (it moves/scales texture detail models along with UV islands).

There will be option to connect standalone to Surforge asset, allowing to use Surforge material editor with realtime tweaking and preview in Unity as you normally do, but fed with texture details rendered from outside.

 

Out of curiosity, will we be able to use the result from the standalone version in Unreal/other engines as well?

I noticed Surforge is now in the megabundle. I do hope your issues with Unity have been solved so that you can fully enjoy Surforge being in the bundle!

 

Cool, thanks for the reply, looking forward to your work.

 

Definitely, as well as results of current Surforge asset.
Texture requirements pretty much similar everywhere.

 

Thanks so much!

 

smart move as an Unreal user, and Unity since Unity 2. and a professional for 30 years, I use alot of standalone tools, and that was the best thing you could of done, you can get other users, NOT just Unity users.

Software like World Creator started in Unity but most of there customers are Unreal, Film etc......

I advise you to have a webpage some where so people can find you ..... Do you have a Discord??

I never bought your asset for Unity, but as a standalone I would....

Unity does not care about its developers who release games..SO not surprised by there behavior .. when I retired to make my own game I went right to Unreal Vs Unity for my open world game...

anyways, i'm a UX/UI Designer, and texture artist in Substance Designer, I personally like using good texture software.. and non destructive is the way to go.... So looking forward to seeing what you made....

 

Thank you for your words of support.
No time for Discord unfortunately. Still a lot have to be done.

The amount of things easily accessible for Unity Editor asset, but required to be done from scratch for standalone app is overwhelming. Undo, files, texture picker, etc. Most of this I finished.

 

Hi Sergey, thanks for Surforge, it's among my favorite tools ever. I was wondering if there's a resource somewhere that specifies which maps are exported in which channels of the exported maps.

Specifically, I'm planning on using the outputs of Surforge in 3ds Max (yes, a game engine outputting to an authoring software like Max... it's opposite world!), and while most of the maps go into Max' PBR materials just fine, I haven't been able to figure out where the Roughness resides.

I might also use the maps in another engine eventually, so a general explanation on what output is where would be ace. My apologies if I've missed it, I had a look through the docs and a search of this thread but neither gave me the results I hoped for.
Metallic/roughness workflow in case it wasn't clear.

Also, good luck on the Standalone edition, I'll be sure to check it out when you're done!

 

Hello,
Thank you very much for your words of support and feedback.

In Unity (and Surforge) roughness stored on the alpha channel of your specular/metallic map.
If you need to separate the roughness, jush search for "export" in "Surforge.cs" file.
It shouldnt be a problem to combine/split the data as you need with a couple of hacks.

 

Ya, it for sure takes a bit of time, it was part of my job, but at the end of the day it pays off by alot..

anyways good luck on what ever you do, but, I do recommend Discord, Discord is mostly for other users to connect, and help each other. .I even have one that just helps, Unreal, Unity and other game developers.... and I personally have ZERO time, but, I multi task and help when I can...

its also a great way to get the word out about your tools.... Just saying.

I rarely come to Unity forums, alot of users, don't either anymore..

but either way. I wish you well. .

 

Surforge 1.4.6 update is ready and live.
ChangeLog

Unity 2023.2 support.
fixed: A call to Blit repeated error message.

 

Thanks for update! Cant wait texturing tool!

 

Anyone know how to fix this error, which appears on importing the asset.