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SUIMONO Water System - 2.0 BETA Announcement

Discussion in 'Works In Progress' started by chingwa, Nov 17, 2013.

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  1. John-G

    John-G

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    Picked up Truesky http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/truesky-for-unity.246880/ while its on offer.
    Having an issue running it with Sumino, the 2 don't play nice together.
    Once Truesky is turned on it causes suimono to stop rendering to the horizon, as can be seen in these pics.

    Only Truesky activated: It renders clouds to horizon, ana appears to render a grey cube border around the camera below the horizon.


    With Truesky and Suimono activated together: Suimono only appears to render if there is a geometry behind the water everything else appears to be culled.
    You can see the grey border of Truesky between the terrain/water and the horizon.


    Only Suimono activated: Water is once again render fully to horizon.



    Any ideas how I can get the water to be render fully to the horizon. Happens in both Forward and Deferred in all modes DX9, DX11.

    TrueSky appears to use a "camera.depthTextureMode" to render the clouds to the main camera.
     
  2. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Hmmm... I'm not sure. Can you check and see if TrueSky is changing the render distance of the camera? Suimono uses the set render distance in order to calculate how large an ocean surface to generate, perhaps the two aren't communicating, or truesky is changing it on the fly? the "camera.depthTextureMode" shouldn't matter, suimono uses that as well. (not sure what that grey cube that trueSky renders is either... Is this system an image effect? or... skybox? ...or SkySphere type of object?
     
  3. John-G

    John-G

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    Hi camera render distance is set at 1000, truesky does not change it.
    Not sure what technique truesky uses as its system is external libraries and built-in shaders rather than Unity shader scripts. Only thing that kind of works is to make a very large plane at sea bed level, this then renders the water against the plane, but the plane will never reach horizon due to camera render distance.
     
  4. chingwa

    chingwa

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    So it looks like the suimono water is disappearing right where your terrain/land object ends... would you say that's correct? It seems like TrueSky may be overriding the transparency, as if it requires a non-transparent object in order to render into the z-buffer correctly (though I'm not sure why that would be :/ ). You could try making a large flat plane (like, really large :D) that extends to the horizon with a non-transparent shader and place it just underneath your terrain... just to test whether this is the case or not... ?
     
  5. John-G

    John-G

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    Yes the water only renders where ever there is a terrain behind it, acting like a texture. It would appear that indeed TrueSky is overriding suimono shaders.
    I tested creating a very large plane of 1e+07 *1e+07 to have it render close to the horizon.

    But it still cut of the water at the cameras render distance.


    Tried increasing the cameras render distance to 100,000 and it worked, in so mush as it renders to the horizon.


    Will increasing the render distance effect secondary effects like waves etc. If so is there a work around to that?
     
  6. chingwa

    chingwa

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    in dx9 it shouldn't affect the waves. In dx11 having a large view distance will affect the tessellation detail, so you'd probably need to increase some of the tess settings to compensate for this.. The main reason not to have such a large render distance is because it starts to "blow-out" the z-buffer on the camera, which a number of effects in Suimono take advantage of, and many other assets as well.

    Is there any documentation for TrueSky that mentions how the setup works, or how it interfaces with the camera?
     
  7. John-G

    John-G

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  8. chingwa

    chingwa

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    The way you turned off the auto setting and bumped up the tessellation manually is exactly what I would have done... you should try adjusting the tess settings to compensate... but I think that 100,000 may just be too high for most applications... I could recode the dx11 infinite ocean to behave more like the dx9 version (thus there is a "near" water object and a "far" water object), but honestly in most cases it's better to do this with one object and tessellation.

    The real problem is trying to find out how truesky is influencing this, and I didn't see anything in the docs pages you linked that gave me any "ah hah!" moments, and I haven't experienced this before elsewhere... I thought perhaps it would be related to the camera background mode, but tests here work as expected so it must be directly related to truesky code. :/
     
  9. John-G

    John-G

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    Thanks will get in touch with Truesky author to see if its possible to fix from his side.
    Will also see if I can get a dual camera system working with one camera rendering skies and the other rendering terrain, seas and everything else on top.

    Edit: just enabled debug mode in Truesky and it shown how the camera build the scene.

    Following two pics show the very large plane I created enabled and disabled.
    The image in top right shows Truesky generating an inverted blue mask of the geometry before compiling foreground and background images.
    Its definitely Truesky that is masking of the foreground of the transparent water. I will email his to see if he can put an option in to detect transparent shader in the foreground and include them in the mask - the same way as the plane is added.



     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  10. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Interesting to see the debug images. If you hear any solutions from their side keep me updated! :)
     
  11. John-G

    John-G

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    Will do, Cheers :)
     
  12. John-G

    John-G

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    Cool, I just found in the TrueSky folders a shader for getting the depthmask.

    Not having any knowledge on shaders do you think the solution is in this?

    Code (CSharp):
    1. Shader "Custom/DepthShader"
    2. {
    3.     Properties
    4.     {
    5.         _MainTex ("Base (RGB)", 2D) = "white" {}
    6.     }
    7.     CGINCLUDE
    8.     #include "UnityCG.cginc"
    9.     uniform sampler2D _CameraDepthTexture;
    10.     struct v2f
    11.     {
    12.         float4 pos : POSITION;
    13.         float2 uv : TEXCOORD0;
    14.         float4 projPos : TEXCOORD1;
    15.     };
    16.     sampler2D _MainTex;
    17.     float _Intensity;
    18.     v2f vert( appdata_img v )
    19.     {
    20.         v2f o;
    21.         o.pos = mul(UNITY_MATRIX_MVP, v.vertex);
    22.         o.uv =  v.texcoord.xy;
    23.         o.projPos = ComputeScreenPos(o.pos);
    24.         return o;
    25.     }
    26.     float4 frag(v2f i) : COLOR
    27.     {
    28.         float4 ret;
    29.         ret.a=1.0;
    30.         //Linear01Depth linearizes...
    31.         float depth =  (tex2Dproj(_CameraDepthTexture,UNITY_PROJ_COORD(i.projPos)).r);
    32.         //ret.rgba=100.0*(1.0-depth);
    33.         //ret.rgb=Linear01Depth(depth);
    34.         ret.rgb=depth;//1.0/(_ZBufferParams.x * depth + _ZBufferParams.y);
    35.        
    36.         // i.e. linear_depth = 1.0/_ZBufferParams.y when z=0 - i.e. depth=1, _ZBufferParams.y=1.0
    37.         // and when z=1, linear_depth = 1.0/(_ZBufferParams.x + 1.0), which should be frustum near/far;
    38.         // so n/f(x+1)=1.0
    39.         //        (x+1) = f/n
    40.         //            x = f/n -1
    41.         //ret.r=1.0/(_ZBufferParams.x * depth + _ZBufferParams.y);
    42.         //ret.gb=1.0/((1.0-1667.05920) * depth + 1667.05920);
    43.  
    44.         // suppose    x    =1.0 - m_FarClip / m_NearClip;
    45.         // and        y    =m_FarClip / m_NearClip;
    46.         // Then for r = 1.0/ (x depth + y), we get:
    47.         //    depth=0 ->   r    = 1.0/y = near/far
    48.         // depth=1    ->     r    = 1.0 / ( 1- far/near + far/near)
    49.         //                    = 1.0 / 1.0 = 1.0
    50.         return ret;//tex2D(_MainTex, i.uv) * _Intensity;
    51.     }
    52.     ENDCG
    53.     SubShader
    54.     {
    55.         Pass
    56.         {
    57.               Blend Off
    58.  
    59.             ZTest Always Cull Off ZWrite Off
    60.             Fog { Mode off }    
    61.  
    62.             CGPROGRAM
    63.             #pragma fragmentoption ARB_precision_hint_nicest
    64.             #pragma vertex vert
    65.             #pragma fragment frag
    66.             ENDCG
    67.         }
    68.     }
    69. Fallback off
    70.  
    71.  
    72.    
    73.    
    74.  
    75.  
    76.  
    77.  
    78. }
     
  13. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Well the shader is simply returning the default depth buffer from the camera, it isn't doing anything particularly special with it. The ultimate issue is definitely related to the fact that transparent shaders in Unity don't render into the depth buffer. This is why I first suggested the "plane-under-the-terrain" method.

    I've been doing some shader tests and edits in Suimono the past couple of days anyway, I can take a look and see if I can find a method of getting around this issue...
     
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  14. RandAlThor

    RandAlThor

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    Do Suimono come with some kind of wetshader for a beach?
    Would be great to see that the sand gets darker when the water is on top and getting slowly brighter when it is away.
    Also the shininess could be animated this way.
    If not planed for suimono, do someone have, know or sell such a shader that is or will work with suimono?
     
  15. chingwa

    chingwa

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    One of the early betas for version 2.0 had something like this, but I took it out because of problematic rendering. Ultimately it is not actually a "water surface" effect per se, it really needs to be done on the terrain/object shader. The best way to do this would be to write a custom terrain/object shader that can read the water height from Suimono. I don't have anything like this currently. Perhaps once the beta is released I can add a secondary plugin for something like this.
     
  16. John-G

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    Thats great, hopefully you can get something working. While I know your own Environment system will be releasing soon, which I still will be front of the queue to purchase, Truesky is more a solution for flight sim use with clouds you can fly through.
    But for the Naval Sim, I have great anticipation for your system in conjunction with Suimono to have DX11 tellesation waves and real astrominical bodies.
     
  17. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Hello All,

    A number of people have asked me what's going on with the beta, and when the next update is coming. I'm happy to say that 2.0 beta version 0.88 is coming very soon and I think everyone will like the results of the last 2 months of work. In short, besides a number of misc bugfixes, and better linear rendering support, I've been busy completely redesigning the water rendering and surface shaders for improved visual fidelity with a particular emphasis on water movement and waves.

    The main water shader has been completely re-written (yeah, again) and I've reduced the amount of main rendering passes from 4 down to 1... taking a shader that had over 1,100 lines of code, down to a lean sexy machine of approx 550 lines of code. This means along with the above mentioned rendering improvements, there are speed improvements as well!

    Below are a few examples of the new/improved water rendering, showing the surface waves at various magnitudes... :)

    smooth detail waves...


    low magnitude ocean waves...


    larger magnitude ocean and detail waves...
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
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  18. Archania

    Archania

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    Beautiful work. Very glad I bought it. Looking forward to the new version.
     
  19. Uzopoza

    Uzopoza

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    Hi chigwa!

    I have one problem and it visible when we looking from afar
    How can I fix it?
     
  20. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Hey Uzopoza, It looks like a resolution issue with the terrain, like the terrain tesellation is interfering with the suimono surface as you zoom out and the resolution reduces.. You could try raising the overall terrain resolution, or lowering the "pixel error" attribute int he terrain settings... but can you email or PM some more info about your setup? I'd like to know the following... suimono version (check the included readme.txt file)? unity version? mac/pc?
     
  21. Archania

    Archania

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    Was just wondering how the progress is going.
    Hope all is well and progress is going strong.
     
  22. rahul007

    rahul007

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    How much time till the final version that will be on the assetstore?
     
  23. John-G

    John-G

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    Got a temp solution working with Truesky and suimono suning 2 cameras and render to texture.
    Dev of Truesky is looking into a proper fix to get both playing together nicely :)

    Noticed that with suimono the ocean only looks infinite while camera is low to the water, if we raise the camera high above the water you can see the end of the water plane, this is tied to the camera far clip of default 1000.
    Increasing this to a higher value of 20000 while in play mode renders the ocean to the horizon (Or very close).
    Now if you set the camera to this value and then press play the fps drop to around 3 from 60.
    But if you change the value in runtime it keeps the fps at 60 while still having a ocean that is rendered to the horizon.

    Is there anyway to have it that suimono starts with the camera at 1000 and when started changes the value to 20000 for example?

    Not sure if I explained it very well, if not I can do a video showing what I mean.
     
  24. chingwa

    chingwa

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    archania - Apart from the big improvements coming to the surface/wave visuals (see above, though the animated GIFs really don't do it justice) I've been working on improvements to the preset system and you can now choose from multiple preset files which really helps the workflow quite a bit. This also would allow people to share presets really easily without fear of overwriting their current preset settings.

    As of the next beta update Suimono will be compatible with Unity 5, and I'm looking into support for the new reflection probe system. AND I've been working on a looong requested feature which I previously thought was impossible.... cast shadow support for water surfaces. :) It's still a bit buggy (and only works in Unity 4 for now) but I'm very excited to finally get this working.

    rahul007
    - I really should stop telling people when Suimono will be finished because it seems I keep overshooting my time estimates. With the next update (version 0.88) I think everything should be working well enough to finally issue a Asset Store release candidate version, So I hope to have it up on the store shortly afterward. I realize development of Suimono will never be "finished", but I think it's finally gotten to a point that I'm comfortable releasing version 2.0 on the store.

    John G. - glad to hear a solution is in the works :) Let me know if there's anything I can do here on my end. Perhaps I should contact the Truesky dev myself as well...?

    If you're getting fps issues with the infinite ocean, it is almost certainly caused by the tessellation settings going overboard. Try unchecking the "auto tessellation" option on the suimono_surface object, and try manually setting a higher tessellation setting. In the next update I've clamped this auto setting to a more realistic range, so it should never cause such extreme fps fluctuations. Try out the above and see if it helps. I'd rather not change scene camera distances from Suimono as every project will have a different requirement in this area.

    The "infinite" rendering in suimono isn't infinite (as you've discovered) but attempts to render to the end of the camera's far-clip plane. Usually this works as intended, butif you continue to have problems after trying the above let me know!

    All - Finally, I've been thinking of raising the minimum requirement of Suimono from 3.5.6 up to 4.5.2. I don't want to do this without some feedback from the people here... whether this is a good target version or whether it will break compatibility with your projects? 3.x support hinders development more than you would think and it seems there is less and less of a reason to support 3.x as each day goes by. Also I assume a large number of people will be upgrading to 4.6, so a minimum version of 4.5.2 doesn't seem too unrealistic. Thoughts?
     
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  25. lazygunn

    lazygunn

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    While I appreciate some people might be using Unity versions that old, I doubt the majority will be and as Suimono has been a big water system for Unity for quite some while, hindering development for severe legacy support also hinders game development with Unity as a whole, which is more unfair on those pushing things forward with the current version than those catering to aging systems in what must be a small minority in the userbase

    Great to see you developing Suimono's features so much
     
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  26. John-G

    John-G

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    Just upgraded to 4.6 so a big yes from me.
     
  27. cookimage

    cookimage

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    We are still on 4.3.2 as our project is very big and allot of assets has not yet update to higher. Hopefully you can make it closer to that i think would be great as if we upgraded it would be a ton of extra work for our MMO game.
     
  28. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Thanks for the feedback you guys!

    cookimage -The last thing I want is to render Suimono unuseable for those who've integrated it into their larger projects. I'll take a look and review the 4.3.2 version for any compatibility issues. I know early 4.x was extremely buggy, so I want to bypass that if at all possible, but I seem to remember 4.3+ to be more on the stable side.
     
  29. Hrothvitnir

    Hrothvitnir

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    I haven't had trouble upgrading my project to the latest unity build in a long time. Lots of warnings generated by older assets, but everything seems to work with pretty minimal effort on my part. I imagine 4.6 or 4.6.2 will be a popular stopping point for a lot of people, with the new GUI. The demo I'm currently working on is what I really need Suimono for, and I might stop upgrading at 4.6~ for that, but the main game I will probably release in unity 5.
     
  30. janpec

    janpec

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    Hey a question, is this underwater caustic that you have on underwater screens example enabled by default with this water system?
     
  31. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Hrothvitnir - thanks for the feedback! yeah I also think 4.6 will become a popular stopping point for many people.

    janpec - yes the caustics are part of the water system, and should "just work". There was a bug in one of the betas that prevented the caustics from playing. If you're using the beta(?) and aren't getting them to work PM me and I'll help you sort it out. There's a new beta update coming out this week (version 0.88) and I just confirmed that caustics are definitely working by default in this version.
     
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  32. janpec

    janpec

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    Thanks for answer, i havent yet purchased just asking ahead. I wonder, would your water system work with rivers, or if so do you have suggestions how to fit it to rivers? I am thinking simply using your system with moving UVs and should be enough to imitate river.
     
  33. chingwa

    chingwa

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    The water/wave flow will work with rivers as long as the river mesh UVs are setup properly... though objects that are floating in the river won't actually flow around properly. I'd love to add true flowmap support in the future, though this will be after the 2.0 version goes up on the asset store. You can see an old example of a river mesh setup here...

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/su...er-system-released.147111/page-6#post-1246819
     
  34. janpec

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    Yep that looks good. Flowmap would be defenetly great but i dont know how costly it is for performance especially for long rivers. Kingdom come Deliverence has very good dynamic flowmap river system would be amazing to see something similar with your water shader.

    Just read over all pages, few nice screens i have missed. Depth fade is defenetly looking great.

    Maybe additional question, are those big waves generated only by DX11 tess or is there possibility to use them in DX9 with increased mesh verticles on water plane? If it is only DX11 do you plan to add some substitute for DX9, for example maybe just having option to use 2 LODs of water plane to achieve big waves effect near camera.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  35. UltraTM

    UltraTM

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    When comes the 0.88 ?
    Cant wait for it :)
     
  36. chingwa

    chingwa

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    janpec - is Deliverance's river system fully dynamic? I think I missed that, I'll have to go rewatch some of their videos :D

    In Suimono the only main difference between dx11 mode and dx9 mode is tesellation... so you will still get the big 3d waves in dx9, it's jst not as detailed as in dx11. Though just like you said, if you are only rendering a small water area with the suimono mesh then you'll see more detail... or if you replace the suimono mesh with a mesh with denser vertices you'll get more detail as well.

    UltraTM - SOON. I was hoping to release later tonight, actually, though I'm still working on some issues. The new cast shadows feature is still a bit buggy, and I might pull it from 0.88 release. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't so I really need to nail down what's going on here. I'll probably pull it and save it for the next release. There is plenty of stuff in 0.88 for people to be happy about :D
     
  37. janpec

    janpec

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    Yes Chingwa it is dynamic, their flowmaps are generated realtime i think.

    Oh thanks for explaining, thats what i was hoping for, sounds great.

    One additional question, is it possible for programmer to acces Suimono water system and your sky system to gather infos such as condition of weather from sky system (eg rain or clear sky), and wave height (mesh not normal map) on water system to have waves of ocean automatically scale higher if weather goes to rainy? Just asking if those attributes are accessible trough code of your systems.
     
  38. UltraTM

    UltraTM

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    btw have an question for me the underwater effects and water drops on the screen doesnt work.
    I use the latest Unity version and have NGUI in my Project.

    Heres an screenshot of it .




    Dont know what this could be
     
  39. chingwa

    chingwa

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    Hi UltraTM,
    Do you have both a SUIMONO_Module prefab and a SUIMONO_Surface prefab in your scene? Also can you tell me if you're using Unity or Unity Pro?
     
  40. chingwa

    chingwa

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    janpec - yes it's possible... Suimono has a custom "GetHeight" function and you can use with a number of parameters to get water surface related data at any Vector3 position. There will be data accessible from Tenkoku as well, you can access various time and weather related data.

    One thing I should mention is that both of these assets are currently coded in .JS... this may be an issue for some projects but there are ways of getting around most issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
  41. UltraTM

    UltraTM

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    Hi,

    chingwa

    yes i have both inside my scene.
    When im above the water it looks good and nice :)
    Also i got splash to work.
    But under the water it looks like this screen above and no underwater effects

    I use UNity 4 Pro.


    Maybe something cause i use NGUI?
    caus there i have 2 cameras then in the scene cause of the GUI stuff. I dont know
     
  42. John-G

    John-G

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    Any update on 0.88 :)
     
  43. Pulov

    Pulov

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    While the screenshots look great, when I see the videos the foam really does not feel good, it feels like a displacing texture and the effect certainly is not good. I would like to see some automatic flow maps in teh future based on teh watter geometry, also willing to see this working together with your awesomic sky system.
     
  44. chingwa

    chingwa

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    UltraTM - it's possible it could be caused by multiple cameras... it may not know which camera to track for the underwater mode... what you should do is explicitly tell Suimono which camera to use, by dragging your main scene camera into the "scene camera object" slot on the SUIMONO_Module object, then save and try to play your scene again.
     
  45. chingwa

    chingwa

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    John G. - It's almost there man, promise! :)

    Pulov - are you talking about the foam or the wave displacement? I'll put out a new video after the next beta version is done, I think you'll like the results much better. :) I'll also be looking into real flowmap support in the future.
     
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  46. eskovas

    eskovas

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    Hello chingwa,

    I finally got around to purchase suimono and i will be trying it out pretty soon :) It looks really good

    Do you think it would be possible to simulate the water over the network? not every water detail, but only the top and bottom points of tall waves would be enough to simulate similar results in all clients.
     
  47. UltraTM

    UltraTM

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Posts:
    215
    Hey chingwa


    this didnt helpd there was also the surface buggy i not displayed from above.

    Dont know what else i could to.
    also tried to delete and import Suimono again
     
  48. chingwa

    chingwa

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Posts:
    3,455
    Eskovas - thanks for your purchase! I highly recommend you sign up for the 2.0 beta version... It's far more advanced and easier to use than the version currently on the asset store. You can sign up for free using the form here...
    http://www.tanukidigital.com/suimono/beta/

    Simulating over the network... hmmm.... I'm actually not sure... there are a few parameters that control the scaling and scrolling of the wave displacement. I assume if those variables can be synced over network than the water should mirror correctly, though I haven't tested this.

    UltraTM - I didn't ask before, but are you using the 1.48 version from the asset store, or are you using the beta? If you don't have the beta you can sign up using the link above. It may also help if you send me a screenshot of your editor view showing your hierarchy and suimono settings... you can email me directly at konnichiwa[at]tanukidigital if you'd rather not post images here...
     
  49. eskovas

    eskovas

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Posts:
    1,344
    Yes i will be signing up for the beta version :) was waiting for the 0.88 to be released since it has a lot of improvements :p

    Having a Suimono that would allow us to synchronize the important waves thought the network would be fantastic :)
    Definitely something to consider
     
  50. UltraTM

    UltraTM

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Posts:
    215
    Hi chingwa


    im using the Beta.
    But now it works :)

    dont know what was there. had an copy of my scene.
    there i insert the water and NGUI stuff again. Now it works.

    also cant wait for the 0.88 .

    Your water system i soo damn nice :)
     
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