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Steam Suggestions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by StarvingIndieDeveloper, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    If anyone has Steam experience, some advice would be greatly appreciated. For over a week, my game has been held up by repeated claims by both the Store Page and Build reviews that all four capsule images are too blurry, even after I removed any possible blurriness and then republished them to the store page. Even the Build review claims that these store page images are blurry despite the patent fact that the Build review is supposed to be critiquing the build, not the store page. The capsule images aren't in the build. So I have no idea what I'm supposed to do to solve this : the images were never blurry to begin with, and certainly aren't now that I've removed the only possible factor making them "blurry" (the glow effect around the title which has now been removed).
    Here are two of the offending images (the largest and the smallest so you can see how they look at both extremes):

    https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/651640/header.jpg
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dvh5cVsV4AA9bHS.jpg
     
  2. one_one

    one_one

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    The larger one looks fine, the smaller one does look blurry though - judging from the URL, that might be due to twitter's compression, though.
     
  3. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    The review said all four, including the largest, were blurry. The smallest one is just one of the larger ones resampled down, which results in anti-aliasing but I don't see how it's blurry.
     
  4. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    They are very dark and almost completely unreadable. (The background, not the text). More unclear than blurry. I would change the background so it is either clearly understandable or just solid color or gradient/texture.
     
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  5. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    I just brightened and sharpened them, although maybe it's better (to pass the review) to just have solid black lettering on a plain white background to get the reviewers to finally stop fussing about it.
    One possible problem is that Steam's system still hasn't updated the smallest version from several days ago - it's still using a version that is now three or four updates out of date, and I have no idea how to force it to update (the others seem to have updated immediately when I change them): here's the one which won't update: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/651640/capsule_231x87.jpg

    Here's the newest, brightened version of one of the larger ones which did update immediately: https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/651640/header.jpg
     
  6. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    I have a semi-related question but

    Why would I click on the store page of a game that promises me all the thrills of looking at a brick wall?
     
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  7. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    Because the wall has the shadow of a ghost on the right side? What image am I supposed to use for a game where you poke around old buildings looking for evidence of ghosts, especially since the smallest version of the image has to be so tiny that you can't see any detail anyway?
     
  8. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    That doesn't look like a ghost, that looks like a noir film detective.
     
  9. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    Well then, I should switch to this image from the game since it clearly looks like a typical ghost, right?

     
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  10. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Being awfully defensive here, huh? Your "ghost" looks like a regular-ass dude and its shadow is being projected on to a plain brick wall. I get no sense of environment or sense of tone. The closest thing I get to tone is the title being "The Spook Inspectors" which just reads as a comedy because "spooky" is a goofy as hell word. Consider the brickwork an old building would use, then consider other things that would be in an old building made of brick. It certainly wouldn't be the table and chair setup you have there. The shadow I saw there? I thought that was the inspector.
     
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  11. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    It has tables and chairs because it's a restaurant called "Green-Eyed Jack's Steakhouse". The chairs are for the customers to sit on while they eat, and the tables are to put their food on, just as most real restaurants have tables and chairs. Some customers and staff believe the restaurant is haunted, so they contact "The Spook Inspectors Paranormal Society", a fairly goofy bunch of dimwits who are somewhere between "Ghost Hunters" and "Ghost Busters", hence the deliberately goofy name. The tone of the game blends some comedy with more serious mild horror (more creepy than frightening). The fedora hat worn by the ghost was a very common type of men's hat worn at one time in history, hence I figured it might make sense for a ghost from that era. Maybe all of the above isn't conveyed very well in a still image that has to be displayed at resolutions all the way down to an itty-bitty thumbnail size, but that isn't what this thread is about: I was asking for advice on how to get Steam to finally stop claiming my capsule images are blurry, so the game finally passes review. If you don't like my ghosts, complain to the Ghost Union.

    BTW, here's another image of the restaurant so you can get some context:

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  12. The problem is: you had to write it down for us, we didn't get it from your image. You need to construct a banner image on the way the audience can tell these things alone without the text you just wrote and high res image you threw at us.
    I guess the reviewer didn't get the point either, that's why they threw back at you.
     
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  13. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    The reviewer's objection was that all four capsule images are allegedly blurry (even after I sharpened them up a lot), not that they don't convey the idea of the game. And since the game will be in Early Access, it isn't going to have everything exactly correct from the beginning, nor does it need to: the old assumption that the first couple days are crucial is no longer the case on Steam (look at games such as "Slay the Spire"), especially for Early Access games. I'm not being defensive, BTW, I'm just pointing out that some of these responses are off-topic and a bit frustrating.
     
  14. Well, okay, it's your game, it's your business, not my problem. :) Good luck.
     
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  15. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Steam is trying to help you. Your capsule images will help sell the game. If it unclear what the images are without an additional explanation, then the images are not going to be effective for selling your game.
     
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  16. ShilohGames

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    angrypenguin likes this.
  17. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Is there a reason that the video is listed after all of the screenshots? I would move that to the front of the line. I tend to watch videos and ignore the screenshots and I know videos are very important with the Google Store so I'm assuming many people do the same.
     
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  18. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    But the reviewer's only criticism was that the images are "blurry" even after I sharpened them quite a bit. I'm starting to think the reviewer's eyesight is blurry. So what do I do to finally get it approved?
     
  19. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    Steam has a new rule that causes it to skip the video even if it's listed first : it defaults to the first still shot, not the video, as you can see by looking at games which have their video listed first. So it doesn't make much difference.
     
  20. ShilohGames

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    Pick an image with a lot more detail, and then create a new header capsule image from that. Sharpening your existing images won't really make them effective for marketing purposes. Gamers will not study your capsule images carefully to try to figure out what you are trying to show them. They will quickly glance at your images, and then rapidly move on to the next possible game if they can't figure out immediately what your game is about.
     
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  21. Ryiah

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    Yes, it will skip them by default, but they will at least see that there is a video. I'm concerned that people will see the initial thumbnails, be left with the impression that there is very little variance (and to be honest it's not a stretch to come to that conclusion), and never reach the video because they didn't bother scrolling through the images.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  22. AndersMalmgren

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    I might be old school but I think those banners on steam should just be the logo nothing more
     
  23. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    I think 80% (or more) of horror game sales are the result of people watching playthrough videos on Youtube channels that focus mainly on horror games (there are lots of those), so I don't think many people pay any attention to the trailer, screenshots, or capsule images on Steam, at least for horror games. But my game has been held up so long due to the allegedly "blurry" capsule images (which aren't blurry) that my first payment will be a month later than it would have been without the delay. So what do I do to finally get it past the review process?
     
  24. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    Be open to feedback.

    Regardless of whether they're actually blurry or not, they look blurry to me, too, even the updated header.jpg. I think the logo makes the image look unclear.
     
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  25. ShilohGames

    ShilohGames

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    Steam is not saying your text is blurry. Steam is saying the background of your header capsule image is blurry in that it is basically impossible to tell what it is.

    At a glance, the background in your header capsule looks like a wall of bricks. Does that mean your game is like Tetris? Obviously your game is different from Tetris. Use your header image as an opportunity to tell people something useful about your game.

    A wall of bricks with a generic font tells people nothing other than the title. The header capsule is an opportunity to tell much more than just the title.

    Here is a useful way to approach the header capsule:
    1) List one or two things that you want to tell people about your game
    2) Create an image that tells that information
    3) Use this new image as the background for your header capsule

    For example, if your game is about a brick wall, you could create an image of a brick wall and then use that as the background. If your game is about anything else, you want to use an image of something other than a brick wall.
     
  26. StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    You mean the crisp lettering makes the background seem blurry by comparison? The previous feedback (in the Steam forums) told me that the background was fine but I needed to use a font that didn't have a glowing effect (as the original did), so I used a very plain white font with no effects and no anti-aliasing, while also sharpening the background just to be safe; and now you're telling me that the crisp font makes the background look blurry by comparison?
     
  27. ShilohGames

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    Ok. Here is the header image for "Slay the Spire":
    https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/646570/header.jpg

    There is a lot more detail in that image. Notice the developers chose a background and font that told you something about their game. They used the header capsule as an opportunity to tell gamers something about their game.
     
  28. TonyLi

    TonyLi

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    I misread your post. This one looks relatively clear to me:



    This one looks blurry:

    [EDIT: Never mind. The image at that link appears to have just changed.]

    However, do consider the feedback that people have donated to you here. The picture is entirely brown furniture in front of brownish bricks and a brown corner post. There's an opportunity to convey so much more in that number of pixels. And, like others mentioned, I'd assume the shadow of the guy in the detective hat is being cast by the inspector.
     
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  29. ClaudiaTheDev

    ClaudiaTheDev

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    Actually if you really want some sells please consider the feedbacck. In my opinion the images look boring and a I would never buy or even play the game by seeing this images. It isn't even bad that the shadow is the inspector because it matches the title. If you want to keep the concept I would choose the most vivid or creepy scenery you have instead of the brick wall and cast the shadow on that. Also add more contrast so that the shadow pops in the eye. Also I would use a different font that looks a bit more spooky.
    I really don't mean it mean but the image is the first thing you see on steam and it should be the best you can do!
     
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  30. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    I get the point, and I'll try to come up with a better image; but if Steam keeps rejecting any image I use (regardless of content) because it's allegedly "blurry" for reasons I can't determine, no image will be approved no matter how good the content is. My original question was about the "blurriness" and what I can do to finally get it approved by Steam. I can't see any blurriness.
     
  31. Just out of curiosity, have you tried to ask Steam support about it? If yes, what they said?
     
  32. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    There's no way to contact the specific reviewer who is making these decisions, and the generic support guys will just repeat the usual mantra about image quality.
     
  33. So, the answer is 'no', got it.
     
  34. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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    Then change image concept.
    Or, check how you see image on mobile (when viewing steam),
    or, reduce colors, to see actual image quality.
    or, Reduce number of detail / objects, for smaller logo.
    Is color blind friendly?
     
  35. angrypenguin

    angrypenguin

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    Just adding another perspective here... maybe they're talking about the textures rather than the content? As a render the images are clear enough but, for instance, there's stretched textures clearly visible on the post on the left, which is a type of blurring.

    Personally, if someone told me one of my images is blurry then sharpening them is probably the last thing I'd do. That's a symptomatic fix that just masks an underlying issue - it should be used for stylisation, not correction. If the image is "blurry" then that suggests that it was taken at too low a resolution and up-scaled, there's some dodgy compression or over-compression, some poorly implemented post processing, or some other underlying issue that's causing things to be or appear blurred.

    If you want to use screenshots for this kind of thing, I would recommend taking them at at least twice the intended resolution of the highest res image required and downsampling them. This will naturally anti-alias the image while preserving detail, rather than anti-aliasing by blurring lines and details. Otherwise I'd look at making some bespoke art your capsule images, per the Slay the Spire example, since they're really important and probably worth the effort if you can afford it.
     
  36. Antypodish

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    This definatelly looks blurry


    While this one, I think has too much noise (bricks), to the scale of image


    For which their algorithm may detect as bury.
    Also, left hand side brings nothing meaningful into the image content.
    Need really look up close careful, to be able deduct, what it is.
     
  37. StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    The column's texture is extremely detailed up close in the game itself. What you're seeing as blurry texture stretching is the pattern of procedural mottling - random darker blotches to add some variation. The shader certainly needs work, but I don't think that's the main issue in this case.

    Well, the smaller ones WERE downsampled without any anti-aliasing at all, and they're still apparently blurry.

    But despite the obvious effort that went into Slay the Spire's hand-painted images, the dev said that during the game's first two weeks it got virtually no attention from people browsing the Steam store, because almost all of its sales occurred only after a Chinese Youtuber featured it on his channel about two weeks after publication on Steam. Horror games like mine will likely get even fewer sales from searches on Steam, because most horror game sales are generated by the many Youtube channels which focus heavily on horror games. That's one of the reasons I'm frustrated by Steam holding up my game's release because of the capsule images: I think there's a lot of evidence indicating that searches / browsing on Steam itself has very little effect. Several years ago it was a huge factor (because Steam had a lot fewer games back then), but not anymore.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  38. StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    The reason the bricks in the second image stand out with too much detail is because I tried to sharpen the image as much as I could stomach, to try to get the Steam reviewer to finally stop claiming it's blurry. I have no idea where that particular reviewer draws the line.
     
  39. Murgilod

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    You can not save this image. Start over.
     
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  40. TonyLi

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    I understand your original question was about blurriness. But Murgilod is right. Even if you can get the image accepted, should you? I don't think it will do anything to help sales.

    Lucy Blundell did a talk for Pro Indie Dev 2018 called Getting Your Game Noticed and Making it Stand Out on the Store. If you can get access to the video, I recommend it. She offers some good advice on Steam images in regards to consistency, color palette, readability, etc.
     
  41. ShilohGames

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    The various image capsules on Steam are used for both promoting games and for selling a game once a user finds it. Some of these images are used in lists. The header capsule is used on the store page for the specific game. The header image is used for convincing viewers to become customers. Your Steam store page is one of the most important pages on the Internet for your game, and the header capsule is always shown on the upper right of your game's store page. Don't try to convince yourself the header capsule is not important. It is a very important image.

    You need to stop trying to just get Steam to accept your current image idea. Steam is trying to help you. Accept the help. Take the header capsule seriously, and redesign it. Use the header capsule as an opportunity to tell people something about your game. Don't just think of it as some silly requirement, because it is actually quite important.
     
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  42. angrypenguin

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    What you see "in the game itself" is not what you see in these images. All you see in these images is the pixels in these images.

    You are judging these things from a position of full knowledge. You know what's in your game. However, the audience for these images is people who know nothing about your game. When they see it for the first time, the only thing people know about your game is the name and what you put in these images. They will be coming from a position of effectively zero knowledge, and will judge your game solely by the pixels you choose to show them.

    So..? This is good evidence that media and social media attention are important. It is not evidence that your promotional artwork doesn't matter! I suggest researching the idea of a "Sales Funnel". If people saw videos of Slay the Spire and then went to the store page and saw white Arial on solid black, boring screenshots, and descriptions which read like they're out of a software spec then chances are that fewer prospects would have gone on to become customers.

    I'm not saying that these images are the most important thing for your game, I'm just saying that they're important enough to warrant professional effort.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  43. ShilohGames

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    Good advice. BTW, here is a link to the header capsule for "One Night Stand" (by Lucy Blundell):
    https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/549860/header.jpg
     
  44. Billy4184

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    Lets be real though, the first image is not blurry in the least. If Steam want to 'help' maybe they could begin by providing some clear feedback/instructions.

    Totally agree though that the image is dark and boring and does not sell the game at all, but if that's the issue it would hardly take more effort to say as much.
     
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  45. angrypenguin

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    It would be good if all of the images were linked, specifically from the set that Valve most recently rejected, and if the specific wording of the rejection could be given (though that might not be possible).

    Depending on how software driven the process is it's entirely possible that the set of images is being rejected due to an issue with only one image.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  46. Grafos

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    I can understand your frustration as this is your labour of love, but I have to agree with most here, you should just make a different banner. The word "inspectors" and the shadow of a noir figure compliment each other (the shadow of an inspector investigating), I would have never thought it's a ghost. I assume you wanted to relate the word "spook" with "the ghost" but I did not make this connection until after I read your description. Other than that, the brick wall is bland and too evenly lit to produce the otherworldly haunting effect.

    If you insist on this banner though, I respect your vision. The small image does indeed look very blurry. Maybe try playing with the filtering options when you resize from the larger one.
     
  47. Antypodish

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    Oh, that what a ghost? I must have missed explanation somewhere above. Thought is a shadow of inspector with a hat. :eek:

    Now I would definitely change banners.
     
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  48. StarvingIndieDeveloper

    StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    How about this for a revised capsule image? (the Steam version will have less height of course)

     
  49. Antypodish

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    Unless you told me, I would never think this is suppose to be a ghost.
     
  50. StarvingIndieDeveloper

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    What exactly do you guys think a ghost is supposed to look like?