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SRP 9.x.x - and SRP 10.x.x Important information

Discussion in 'High Definition Render Pipeline' started by SebLagarde, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

    Unity Technologies

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    Hi,

    It appear to us that we haven't communicate about the new "-preview" package that we have done.

    Here is a sum up of binary version and HDRP package compatibiltiy

    Unity 2019..2 - HDRP 6.x.x family
    Unity 2019..3 - HDRP 7.x.x family
    Unity 2020..1 - HDRP 8.x.x family / HDRP 9.x.x-preview family
    Unity 2020..2 - HDRP 10.x.x family

    The Package 8.x.x are similar to 7.x.x (Same bug fixes, few minor features in addition).

    The package from the 9.x.x-preview will not be supported packages. It have several features that are available in 10.x.x but will not be supported and is provided as a way for users to experiment with future features. When we release those 9.x.x-preview package we perform a very minimal QA.

    Our recommendation is of course to not use a preview package for a production. 9.x.x-preview is not mean to be used in production.

    About the reason why we have done a 9.x.x-preview package:
    SRP team wasn't able to catch up with the 2020.1 cycle release after the very long 2019.3 release cycle that the whole team have focus on. It have been decided to move the effort to have a proper 2020.2 release cycle. But we are still providing a way to experiment earlier with new features via the 9.x.x-preview package.
     
  2. snacktime

    snacktime

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    It would also be very helpful if DOTS preview packages that rely on a specific branch/version keep their changelogs updated with that information. The best I have seen is they do an initial release and say use X, but when the dependencies change never a mention. Really doesn't take that long to put it in the changelog and most of us that are using preview stuff watch changelogs.
     
    _slash_ likes this.
  3. Korindian

    Korindian

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    Perhaps sticky this thread?
     
  4. newguy123

    newguy123

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    Is 10.x available now as a package in 2020.2, or we still have to do the workarounds to get it going from github? - which is still a bit confusing to me on how to get things going from there by the way
     
  5. Bordeaux_Fox

    Bordeaux_Fox

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    Not yet in the package manager.

     
  6. valarnur

    valarnur

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    Some question and request

    1. There was in old github repo a commit for 40-60% less draw calls and improved performance in HDRP. Is it possible to backport this to 7.x in LTS?
    2. For 2020 LTS please add Switch support and HDRP. Doesn't have it currently.
     
  7. Wawruch2

    Wawruch2

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    Wait what? Can you elaborate?
     
  8. valarnur

    valarnur

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  9. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

    Unity Technologies

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    Hi,

    1) This doesn't reduce the number of drawcall, just help with C# lightloop iteration. No backport plan, we only backport critical bugfix to 7.x.x

    2) HDRP Switch support is not plan currently.
     
  10. newguy123

    newguy123

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    Can we please get a step by step for dummies, on how to load HDRP 10.x into our 2020.2 projects.

    I got as far as isolating all the 10 builds in Github with the 10 tag, but then no idea how to get it into UNity. I got halfway, but then apparently Iwas supposet to also download all the othe components also.

    So yes please, a step by step for non programming dummies would be great!
     
  11. newguy123

    newguy123

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    No takers to explain this then?
     
  12. elbows

    elbows

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    Might be partly because this is one of those moments where current master branch on github requires a version of the Unity editor that isnt available to us yet - currently its set to require alpha 20.

    When a modern branch is actually working with a Unity version we can get, I use a very lazy method for using it on a per-project basis.

    I make sure there is no HDRP etc already in my package manifest for the project. I download an entire branch from github. And then I simply copy the folders for pipeline core, HDRP, HDRP config, shadergraph, and in my case also visual effect graph, into the Packages folder that existing within my project folder . This may be quite different to the approved way of installing packages locally to a project, but it has continued to work for me for a number of years now.
     
    newguy123 likes this.
  13. newguy123

    newguy123

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    Thanks for the info.
    How can I see from the branch, which version is required, I know you said 20 in this case, but where do I see that?

    Also, any idea whats the rough ETA of 2020.2 moving to Beta?
     
  14. elbows

    elbows

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    I look at the package.json file inside the root of each packages main folder. So in this case for master branch:

    https://github.com/Unity-Technologi...render-pipelines.high-definition/package.json

    This bit:
    I havent been keeping up with any chatter about release schedules so cannot offer info about that.
     
    newguy123 likes this.
  15. valarnur

    valarnur

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  16. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    @valarus Something version tagged doesn't mean it'll even make it to package manager. There could be several reasons why but in the nutshell, it needs to pass QA, could have documentation issues etc. It's not uncommon that some SRP versions never make it past github but even if they do, they don't usually show up same time on PM and git releases.
     
  17. newguy123

    newguy123

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    But @elbows which branch though, the entire graphics branch or only HDRP branch?
     
  18. elbows

    elbows

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    I usually go for the master branch. And yes the entire graphics project since the HDRP folder is not enough, you will also need to use core, shadergraph etc from the same branch.
     
    newguy123 likes this.
  19. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    I work all projects in Unity 2019.4.5f1, with latest HDRP for that version, will i still be able to use those projects in 2020 versions and their HDRP, or changes are radical ?

    I want to get a feeling whether i should remain in 2019.4.5 or make the move to stop support for it and use 2020 only for HDRP.

    i know for example that much older HDRP or DOTS projects are completely broken now and nothing works out of the box, is it for example anything similar between the 2019 and 2020 HDRP versions or is now a more concrete and stable foundation, so working in 2019.4.5 means will just play in 2020 and latest HDRPs ?

    Thanks
     
  20. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    Hi, HDRP have been out of preview in late 19.3. So starting from here, we guarantee data migration created with base HDRP. So if you use a non modified version of HDRP, it is safe to move to 2020.0.

    If you have fork/change HDRP or use asset store plugin, then it may require some adaptation based on the following guidelines:
    - migration from 19.3 to 20.1: https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/c...0/manual/Upgrading-from-2019.3-to-2020.1.html
    - and from 20.1 to 20.2: https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/c...0/manual/Upgrading-from-2020.1-to-2020.2.html
     
    nasos_333 likes this.
  21. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    I generally use the base of HDRP for image effects and shaders from 2019.3 versions and use the pipelines unchanged, so i suppose will be good for next versions, this is great to know.

    Thanks for the heads up.
     
  22. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hm, i just read the 2020.1 to 2020.2 differences, i have to say those are some radical ones and is more like 2020 to 2021 in changes needed, i really would not expect such changes between so similar versions, i hope the changing of functions is not happen the same for later updates.
     
  23. valarnur

    valarnur

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    Will HDRP 10 have support for grass and trees?
     
  24. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    Sadly nope. The HDRP terrain detail for grass support is plan for next year.
     
  25. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Is there a plan for a fully stable unchanging radically HDRP version and which Unity version will have that one ?

    Also is it possible to retract the HDRP for all users for now, as using it means everything gets broken in later versions and is an extremely confusing situation for everyone.

    Please at least issue a statement that HDRP is not yet ready for use and wont be for xxx number of years more and that is extreme risk to do anything with it currently, until is ready to use for production and no major changes are expected.

    Many users seem to be using HDRP and the engine seems to be best suited to seasoned in 10+ years developers with extreme programming skills than indie ones, because of its ever changing nature and total difference to anything in Unity so far.

    At least warn these users that may be getting in an impossible to handle situation, so can know what to expect when using HDRP.
     
    soleron and LostPanda like this.
  26. valarnur

    valarnur

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    In 2021 cycle pipelines and tools will become core part of Unity and one version of SRP existing for one version of Unity.
     
    nasos_333 likes this.
  27. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    This means one for 2021 in general, or one for each of 2021.1, 2021.2 etc for example ?
     
  28. zoooom

    zoooom

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    Is there an estimated date for when HDRP 9.0.0-preview54 will be in a production ready release?
     
  29. valarnur

    valarnur

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    HDRP 10.x+ will be production ready when 2020.2 is released.
     
    zoooom likes this.
  30. SebLagarde

    SebLagarde

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    Hi please see: https://forum.unity.com/threads/9-x-x-package-status-and-end-of-life.983965/

    From the post message of this thread "The package from the 9.x.x-preview will not be supported packages. It have several features that are available in 10.x.x but will not be supported and is provided as a way for users to experiment with future features. When we release those 9.x.x-preview package we perform a very minimal QA."
     
  31. valarnur

    valarnur

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    If possible, could you give info how will be HDRP 11 integrated in 2021.1?

    Will it be only one version or multiple ones until 2021 LTS?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  32. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    Pretty sure the extra 9.x previews came out of the reasons mentioned in the first post here which definitely sounds like it wasn't even planned until they found out that they will not get new feats in 8.x in time.

    Reasonable assumption with current knowledge on the matter would be that SRP 11.x would be for 2021.1 and 12.x would be for 2012.2 + 2012.3 LTS.
     
  33. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    Is there any guide about the removal of DepthPyramidScale variable i used to scale the uvs when grabbed depth buffer ?

    This breaks all my shaders in hdrp 10.2

    Was it replaced by another variable we can use ?

    Thanks in advance

    Also is there now a way to create my own refoection camera like in urp ? E.g. a on demand render of a camera with custom camera matrices and inverted culling. Or is there a way the planar reflection probe grab image effects in hdrp ?
     
    jjejj87 and keeponshading like this.
  34. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    Does anyone know what may have changed from HDRP 7.5.x to HDRP 10.2, and i get exponentially lower performance ?

    Before I was getting 15ms CPU and 3.8ms GPU and now 25ms CPU and 11.6ms GPU in the exact same project, same game window resolution, with zero changes. Just imported the same package in the two Unity versions (2019.4.15f1 with HDRP 7.4.3 and 2021.1.0a9 with HDRP 10.2) and started the same demo scene in the editor.

    Seems every camera rendering in my scene takes up a lot more ms than in 7.5.x or 7.4.3, so they add up to something unsuable, while in 7.4.3 performance was great.

    Is 10.2 still in Beta also, or is a true release version ?

    Thanks

    I also now test HDRP 10.2.2, in case something was changed or updated to help with performance there and will get back with results.
     
  35. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Hi,

    I did tests in HDRP 10.2.2 as well and performance seem to be same as bad and extremely slower than HDRP 7.4.3 or 7.5 in all my tests.

    I post comparison photos for reference.

    Note that this is the exact same project, without a single change in anything, besides the Unity and HDRP version. Also i made sure no background tasks were running in any of the tests.


    EDIT:

    I post also a photo of HDRP 8.3.1, for reference, is better than 10.2, but slower than 7.5

     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  36. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    Extra camera captures came really slow on newer HDRP. Basically I expect the reason for this to be some additional overhead in all cameras, including the main one but it really shows up if you need extra captures.
     
  37. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Yes, is exactly what i see, scenes with more cameras are exponentially slower, but i also see a general decrease in all tests.

    So will there be an option to render same as in 7.4.3, to gain performance, or HDRP just became 1000x worse ?

    Actually HDRP became unusable for no apparent reason. I think is just a huge mistake at this point and hopefully will revert back or fix it in next versions.

    If the scene is the same and looks same, i cant imagine a single reason why would be rendered so much slower, besides a huge mistake by developers of the HDRP.

    Also in my mind newer versions should bring optimization and not downgrade in performance, as then all trust in the system is lost, e.g. if we are to expect a crawl to 2fps in HDRP 11, what is the point of it all ?
     
  38. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    This is not what I've seen. If I don't count the extra camera perf drop, I've seen HDRP 10 to perform notably better in general than 7.x.
     
  39. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Indeed is strange, currently the exact same project seems to be slower in every test, perhaps could be some issue in the way older Unity counts the fps though, so who knows.
     
  40. elbows

    elbows

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    I'm the person who offered to try to help when you thought there was a Mac M1-specific issue. I guess that problem was actually not M1 specific and is part of the broader problem you are now experiencing with HDRP?

    I absolutely love zooming in and identifying the specific causes of issues. I dont think there has been a general HDRP performance drop so its likely something quite specific which is causing the issue. If you send me both the 7.x and 10.x version of the project I am happy to spend some hours trying to find out the cause of your performance problem.
     
  41. rz_0lento

    rz_0lento

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    Wait, you are measuring the perf in editor? Editor can report wrong data + there's tons of overhead. I always do comparisons with actual build.
     
  42. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Great, thanks, will send a pm asap
     
  43. nasos_333

    nasos_333

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    Yes, doing builds take forever so i compare in editor and by general feeling of how fast the camera rotates

    So indeed may be some extra editor overhead too in later unity version
     
  44. valarnur

    valarnur

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    When is estimate for 10.3 hotfix package for SRP?
     
  45. soleron

    soleron

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    DON'T do that please.
    If I want to experiment with version 10 I will install an editor that supports version 10.
    In my current release I want stability and production stuff.
     
  46. soleron

    soleron

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    Why?
    Can you please explain the logic of this prioritization from a development and product management standpoint?

    Because from a user perspective it makes absolutely no sense. In fact, it is catastrophic.
     
  47. Camarent

    Camarent

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    If I remember right Unity was planned to rework terrain system quite strongly so maybe this is the reason for delaying grass support for terrain.
     
  48. soleron

    soleron

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    That would be a very poor and illogical reason.

    You do that if you plan to have a terrain reworked the next couple of months and deliver the grass system with 3 to 6 months delay to your users. Let's say something urgent and important interjected that forced you to reassign your resources and the delay is 9 months that's ok too.

    BUT having a generic plan for terrain rework "sometime in the future" or even, the next couple of years... is **not** a reason to leave so many people without a proper grass solution for several years.

    It would be amateurish and irresponsible towards your customers.
     
    koirat and Ruchir like this.
  49. DEEnvironment

    DEEnvironment

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    I found 8xx is not so similar in that 8.2.0 core api was built up off from api core 7.3.0 and all the critical changes in 7.3.1 thru 7.6.0 to support Xbox or PlayStation platforms are never added in 8xx

    basically any shaders 7.3.1 + (HDRP) compiled to be compatible with xbox / playstaion tags will break in 8xx due to missing tags never updated by unity ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021