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So unfiar how Escape from Tarkov the best Military SImulator is forced to use an Engine like Unity

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tusk_, Oct 27, 2019.

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  1. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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    Been playing this game and honestly wish I had just bought escape from tarkov instead of wasting money on the new Modern Warfare, EFT is by far the best survival Mil Sim game out there the weapons ballistics realism is second to none not even Arma 3 can compare to this game.

    Unfortunately the lighting system is HORRIBLE, the Performance is ATROCIOUS, the game cannot even use more than 1 CPU core. The Anti Aliasing in Unity is just terrible maybe the worst I have ever seen in my life.

    The micro stutters, the horrible optimization, a lot of it revolves around Unity just being a really bad Engine for such a large ambitious project like Escape from Tarkov. Had they just used Unreal Engine 4 or Cry Engine from day one we would for the very least currently be using 6 CPU cores.

    Yes I am aware Unity is great for mobile games or small indie titles but its just so unfair how a game like EFT is stuck with an Engine like Unity when so much better is available for a grand project like EFT.

    From what I have read Unity is like 5 years behind UE4. I cry just thinking what Escape from Tarkov could have been today if they weren't stuck with Unity.
     
  2. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Please do not lock, I want to see what people will respond.

    I've heard there are not allot of legit programmers on the team but rather artists that act as programmers. That's never a good combo if you want a optimized and functional game. It's just rumours I have heard so take it with a grain of salt.

    Anyway, even with actual programmers it's hard to make a large scale ambitious project in unity, but its about to change. They are improving rendering pipelines, lighting, terrain, etc. Only thing that we don't hear anything about is multithreading, gfx jobs seems dead in the water
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  3. Mauri

    Mauri

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    1. Your thread title is kinda presumptuous, considering that no one was forced to use Unity. The devs decided themselves to use this engine.
    2. It's not the engine's fault when the developers of a game decide to stick with a much older engine version for reason XYZ.

    The game relied on a heavily modified Unity 5 (!) version for years and the jump to Unity 2018.4 has just been announced for game version 0.12 - which comes out today. The preliminary patch notes say:

    • New TAA (temporal anti-aliasing) full-screen antialiasing post effect
    • New HBAO shading post effect
    • Terrain now casts shadows and has self-shadowing
    • Texture streaming option to reduce RAM consumption
    • New grass with a long-distance rendering + grass shadows option
    • Optimization of rendering and display of grass
    • Optimization of animation system
    • Optimized the Ambient Occlusion effect
    • Optimization of Volumetric Light
    • Added “use only physical CPU cores" option (it is recommended for everyone to enable this option)
    • Various optimizations of the load on the CPU
    • Added optimized contact SSAO effect algorithm
    • Fixed a large number of causes of freezes and stuttering related to rendering, physics, animations, inventory, combat logic, etc.
    (and other fixes, optimizations, etc)
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  4. JasonBricco

    JasonBricco

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    I’d like to also add that even if you use Unity, you’re not forced to use every Unity feature. If something performs poorly you can write your own version of it that doesn’t.

    It annoys me when people act like the engine makes the game rather than the developer. You’re not forced into poor performance.

    Of course, as far as Unity features go, Unity is moving in quite a performance-oriented direction now. So there’s that.
     
  5. TonicMind

    TonicMind

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    I agree wholeheartedly @OP.

    I've played a ton of shooters but Escape from Tarkov takes the cake if only it weren't for Unity's crummy performance issues. Its really bad that the devs were forced into using the Unity engine, as it is the only AAA game engine which remains more or less free (minus royalties at 100k+ profits).

    Maybe if the devs had been given the choice of using Unreal Engine 4 my pals and I might have won that game last night...
     
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  6. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    It’s a poor craftsman that blames his tools.

    And I don’t even know what to think of people who blame other people’s tools while not knowing what they talk about.
     
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  7. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Don't get too cocky guys, making a good looking game like tarkov plus scale out map size and keep performance was up until recently impossible. And they are not quite there yet either.
     
  8. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    Yeah, no.

    If it was the Tarkov devs making this thread it would be one thing, but it’s not. I vote it gets locked, it’s a troll. If you want to discuss performance and other issues, open a new thread that doesn’t start with an obvious troll.
     
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  9. Peter77

    Peter77

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    I don't understand why several people say the Tarkov team was forced to use Unity. Where does this information come from?
     
  10. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Its only OP saying that?
     
  11. Peter77

    Peter77

    QA Jesus

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  12. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Peter77 likes this.
  13. APSchmidt

    APSchmidt

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    What about asking them?
     
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  14. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    Do you know if they're going to be using DOTS and the HDRP pipeline now?
     
  15. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    What was this performant game again? D.R.O.N.E.?
     
  16. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    I think when Unity finish up RTX / DXR escape from Tarkov will truly be a masterpiece.

    *Raises glasses to my soon to be acquired 2080Ti*
     
  17. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    That will just make the game perform even worse :)
     
  18. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    Nah, DOTS plus one ray bounce from the RTX = all problems solved.
     
  19. Mauri

    Mauri

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    Apparently, before the development of "Escape From Tarkov", the team behind it made a F2P browser game called "Contract Wars". It was playable on Kongregate (see here) and powered by (the) Unity (WebPlayer). It eventually got a Standalone release, thanks to the browser-wide NPAPI deprecation.

    Obviously the devs had already much experience with Unity before, so they stuck with it.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  20. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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    Well the new update is up apparently Tarkov is now officially running Unity 2018 anyone knows if its the final build of 2018 that its running?not sure why Unity 2019 wasn't used tho.

    Going to fire it up once I am done downloading the 7GB patch. From videos I am viewing online, the 2018 Unity Tarkov Anti Aliasing appears to be night and day difference. Fingers crossed hoping it is going to improve performance.

    Still can't believe how far behind Unity is from UE4 tho. Heard it is like more than 5 years behind what EPIC has accomplished so far.

    One would assume with all the money Unity makes, apparently way more than UE4 you would think that UNITY would be the one ahead of EPIC when it comes with this kind of stuff. From what I read even on this forum Unity makes way more money than UE4 so you would expect Unity to be more advanced than UE4 since Unity likely has more money in the bank than Epic
     
  21. JasonBricco

    JasonBricco

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    In which way is Unity 5 years behind Unreal, anyway? I'm curious to see this information as that sounds like a pretty bold statement.
     
  22. APSchmidt

    APSchmidt

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    Maybe it's Unity 5 that is years behind UE?
     
  23. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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    WOW game looks mind blowing good and it actually has proper multi core CPU support now. This is a night and day difference from the previous old Unity Engine it was running. This update took place today and people have been waiting for an Engine update like this for years.

    I take back everything I said bad about Unity holding back Tarkov. The previous Unity engine it was running on was so bad it made the game look like white plastic was covering everything which explains why the texture details in the weapon models were so horrible. The devs actually put in a ton of effort into weapon model / textures but the outdated engine was so horrible that it made everything just look so bad

    This game legit looks like a UE4 AAA title now, and this video doesn't even do it justice, it looked way better ingame when I was playing and recording. Anyways here is the video I uploaded, while still needs a lot of work in better utilizing multi core CPU this is a night and day difference to the previous single core Unity Engine it was running.

    I am considering upgrading my PC now because I love this game so much. Yesterday I was playing with some friends and one guy went inside the warehouse and he and the enemy started firing their weapons you could see the bullets coming through the warehouse metal walls that looked like an arc welder, this game is the definition of Military Simulator Ballistics. Good god I feel like a kid at Christmas now

     
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  24. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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  25. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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    I wonder if we will be missing out on anything major with Unity 2019?

    I do wish they upgraded to 2019 than 2018 but I am sure they have their reasons. I just hope we are not missing out on too much
     
  26. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    Isn't it always a good idea to use a version below the bleeding edge latest just for stability?
     
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  27. iamthwee

    iamthwee

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    Also I can't wait to try out RTX tech, I'm super excited, it is sure to be the future of gaming.
     
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  28. Murgilod

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    Cool, maybe they can make a good game out of it next.

    I hate how Tarkov keeps coming up in conversations as people keep jumping on the "fidelity fidelity FIDELITY FIDELITY" train like they're Steve Ballmer shouting about developers. Fidelity is meaningless and most of Tarkov's visual issues stemmed from trying to chase physical realism while not understanding how to properly approximate things.

    Who cares if it looks AAA when all the other aspects of AAA games are completely lacking, like even a rudimentary level of polish?

    So much of the discussion around Tarkov is about how "oh, it's a AAA game made in Unity!" but it never lives up to any of that from any angle.
     
  29. Tusk_

    Tusk_

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    @Murgilod I think what makes Tarkov so popular is the realism when it comes to weapons and the gunplay itself. For example guns can be broken down into pieces like real life weapons. Even reloading requires you to purchase magazines and then manually load the bullets into the magazines. Then get a vest with X amount of pouches and put each clip into the pouch.

    I thought Arma 3 was king of Mil Sim but I was mistaken, the ballistics of this game is crazy. If you shoot through a metal wall and someone is on the other side you can see how the bullet creates a blue spark like a welding arc when it goes through the walls. I never seen anything like this before, its crazy how real they went with this game.

    I am just happy this Unity 2018 gets rid of the nasty aliasing and horrid lighting of the old Unity you can actually see the texture details now. But I agree you can see how incomplete this game is when you look at rocks and stuff the lack of tessellation.

    Unfortunately there is no other project in Mil Sim that is anywhere near as ambitious as Tarkov. And since they are an indie studio the community puts up with the slow pace of development, I mean if a massive company like Bohemia is unable to create anything this impressive then who are we to complain about this indie studio? even tho we complain everyday but you get the point.
     
  30. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    So do you actually use Unity, or are you here just to talk about Tarkov?
     
  31. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    MadeFromPolygons likes this.
  32. Aiursrage2k

    Aiursrage2k

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    hah thanks for the b8 m8
     
  33. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Top 10 anime plot twist, you won't believe what TUSK did when he discover the new 2018 version of the engine he hated so much, click on this thread to know more.
     
  34. duke

    duke

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    For the record I haven't used Unity in years - I'm an Unreal convert (source access), but this post is utterly disingenuous. Did you play ARK on release (an unreal game from a first time Dev)? It was horrendous, and you'll note that as inexperienced Devs patch their games, the perf improvements are due to their increased experience and rarely due to the engine features changing. In other words, good Devs work with what they've got to hit their perf targets, what you're describing has little to do with Unity itself.
     
  35. APSchmidt

    APSchmidt

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    Could anyone correct the typo in the title?..
     
  36. MadeFromPolygons

    MadeFromPolygons

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    I think this entire thread can be summed up as "Non-user of unity makes incorrect assumptions about unity, and game development in general".
     
  37. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    We are working on realistic ballistics for our game. We even use real world ballistic coefficients to get true to life bullet trajectory. Stay tuned :D
     
  38. digiross

    digiross

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    The new .12 update yesterday is amazing. Them switching to the Unity 2018 engine was a big boost to performance (finally microstutters are gone) and graphics have improved too.

    Anyone that has been with EFT for awhile knows that the game has made a lot of improvements.

    Cheeki Breeki
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  39. neoshaman

    neoshaman

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    Speaking of ark look at the botch switch port, especially near the like of witcher 3, which is witchcraft incarnate.
     
  40. AcidArrow

    AcidArrow

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    I believe the correct term is "witchercraft".
     
  41. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Yes and no. If you've read any of his past posts he's comes across much more as an "idiot troll" than a "non-user of unity".
     
  42. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Ugh, stop trolling. It's obviously witchcrafter.
     
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  43. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    I hope this thread is a joke. PUBG is made with Unreal, has like a billion dollars behind it now, and they still can't figure out how to make it not look and perform like garbage. The engine is just one part of the performance equation.
     
  44. N1warhead

    N1warhead

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    Blueprint infestation is a real thing. Need I say anything else? lol.
     
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  45. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    In Unreals defense, making that large world in Unity without serious competence is impossible. They got some built in tools that Unity just dont have.
     
  46. Joe-Censored

    Joe-Censored

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    I wasn't blaming Unreal, just saying that engine or even mountains of money doesn't just get you to good performance.
     
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  47. zombiegorilla

    zombiegorilla

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    Not going down this road, again. Closed for obvious reasons. (pointless, engine warring, redundant, dev specific, vaque, ranting, blah, blah).
     
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