So how dumb can Microsoft get?! (Windows "10")

You're comparing mobile devices. I'm thinking more along the lines of desktops.

 

I'm thinking about computers. Though it was certainly an important stage to grow through, I honestly think that the days of being form-factor specific are numbered. Oddly enough, I suspect that's exactly the thought that's lead Microsoft down some of their recent paths and design decisions.

Tablets are already powerful enough to do most of what most people need. Aside from software availability, there's actually no reason for most people to have a tablet and a something else. The software availability is exactly what MS (and Intel) seem to be targeting.

Of course just being able to run the software is only one step in making it actually useful, and that's where the challenge is coming from. Old versions of Windows and all of the software designed for them are very desktop/laptop centric. Without a keyboard and a mouse-style pointing device... well, lets say the experience will be sub-optimal. Apple's approach to handling this is to make people design stuff from scratch. MS are going the other way and trying to work out ways, designs and devices that allow people to design and use the same software productively across multiple form factors and use cases. I see merit to both.

 

I like that when you install an Apple upgrade it feels like it's the updated vision of one company - Apple.

Every Microsoft or Android device I've bought always has this feeling like I've just installed a virus that wants to sell me something or take over my computer so I can't get work done or accomplish a task. I can't stand the Samsung version of Android, it's so irritating to have to relearn how to open an app, or even find an app. Microsoft seems to be clueless on how to deliver a pleasant experience to a user. I honestly don't see how people put up with either.

Yep, unapologetic Apple fanboy speaking

 

This is not the fault of Microsoft or Google but rather the fault of OEMs adding their own bloated software. Yet another reason I prefer a boxed copy. I don't have to waste time removing refuse.

 

I'm assuming the marketing guys at Microsoft did some research on why 10 is better than 9. It's stupid, but turn on your TV and you'll see all kinds of stupid stuff like this in commercials.

 

I like apple because when you buy an early version of their product, it falls apart and they give you a new one. My fan is going on this macbook pro retina and that means I'm going to cost them a 3rd free laptop, woo! Also, unix operating systems seem to run emulators better than windows can. Can't live without .hack//fragment!

 

Getting rid of chimes is the single greatest thing in computing history - I vote win.

 

Apples entire announcement of iPhone 6 was based on this premise if you happened to watch the live stream. "Ten is bigger than nine so it must be better!"

 

This isn't about Apple. That's just derailing the entire issue. In this case MS seem determined to shove metro down our throats in some form or other. It is now attached to the start menu.

What we're all really asking for is 'don't be invasive, let us tweak, let us choose'.

 

Running Windows 10 Tech Preview in a Hyper-V VM right now and this appears to now be the case. Still have access to the touch friendly apps but with the Windows 7ish experience. One thing that I do like about Classic Shell over the Win 10 start menu though is that classic shell separates your "apps" from your programs. In Win 10 so far it's everything together but it may be a setting I just haven't seen yet.

 

Then Torvald's got your back.

 

What things do you consider bloat? It's highly configurable and you can remove about whatever you want so I don't necessarily see bloat as an issue. On the issue of VM's... it has Hyper-V which is top notch and you can run anything you want in it. It has the command prompt, which is essentially like a Linux terminal... and it has PowerShell which is insanely powerful and essentially allows you to program in the command line.

And what type of OS X / Linux interoperability would you like to see?

 

Personally, I stick with Windows 7 because I prefer the Aero glass theme. I just plain can't stand the flat, boring look of the new design. It really bothers me how flat, minimalist, boring graphic design has taken over everything.

They could at least include Aero glass as a option and still use the flat theme by default. In previous versions of windows, you could use older themes, why reduce user choice in win 8/8.1/10 ? What? because the blurred transparency is a burden on battery life?... weak excuse, anyway some of us still prefer desktops.

Sure I could install windowblinds or some hack, but I'd rather not.

 

I agree that Aero glass is awesome.

I use Windows 8 (and now 8.1) with ClassicShell providing a very nice, and free, Start Menu.

It is by far the fastest and most stable version of Windows yet.

From the video I saw, it looks like Microsoft is fixing some of the UI issues they introduced with Metro. I think they are on the right track.

As far as naming goes, Microsoft has an amazing cadre of developers that are totally hamstrung by their incompetent marketting and PR.

Here's an example: They said that games purchased on Xbox 360 Live Arcade would need to be repurchased on XboxOne Live Arcade and that they were encouraging people to keep both consoles to avoid repurchasing games. But the Microsoft Store keeps sending me emails offering a $100 trade-in credit for my 360 when I buy an XboxOne. I've spent more than $100 on games in the Xbox 360 Live Arcade so that's no bueno.

I hope they are able to fix their brand issues but, at the end of the day, we're just talking about software tools. If one tool (or an older tool) is more useful than another, just use it.

 

Can you copy easily too now (like Ctrl-C or Ctrl-Shift-C)? And select like normal text (and not in block mode) directly? And is Tab-completion finally fixed?

I luckily just need Windows in a VM from time to time, and when I still used it I used cygwin with a X-Server to have a real console.
I always thought the console is a complete joke in Windows, zero love for power users. Even when it was created it was years behind the competition and it was never really upgraded since 20! years.

 

Again... it's about actually knowing the tools. That's what PowerShell is for. It's not a third party addon... it's Microsoft and it's compatible back to Windows XP SP2.

 

Probably. In fact, Microsoft demoed the command prompt haha

 

Agh! We all know that since many years Microsoft "gets" only the odd versions of Windows (Windows 7, Windows XP, while Windows Vista or the dreaded ME were complete garbage - Windows 8 is still up for discussion though), and now they're bringing bad luck to themselves by jumping the new odd and going for another even? They're crazy!

 

I agree. Good thing it is entirely doable with a combination of third party applications (Classic Shell for the Start Menu and Glass 8 for the transparency effect) and a Windows theme.

http://winaero.com/blog/aero-glass-for-windows-8-1-released-download-links-inside/

 

This. As per hippos recommendation.

 

Thanks ... It's now a part of my bookmarks.
Looks like I have no choice but to resort to 3rd party stuff, since I can't count on Microsoft to do anything sensible.

 

I refuse to use anything before Windows 7 and XP.
If you asked me to login to a Windows 8, I wouldn't know how.
That dang start up crap confuses me... if Windows 10 looks like Win 7, I'll get it. All because of the ergonomics of it.

 

I've never seen anyone who gave windows 8 a shot go back to windows 7, especially if they have had to use the search.

 

Well yeah if I spent 400 dollars (exaggerated) I don't know how much it costs. But I'd just deal with it and use it as well.

Why can't it just log you in and take you straight to your desktop? I don't want to have to find something that takes me there. Or at least, from everything I've seen that's how I've always seen it work.

 

well.. uh, what if six turned out to be nine?

cause I don't mind, nope.

 

I think you can set it to do that or you can move you mouse to the left of the screen then down, click and you are there.

 

or just hit the "windows" button on every dang keyboard made since 1995 to toggle...


and for the record, Microsoft was actually making a phone OS long before Apple entered the game... I remember distinctly sitting in my team bullpen at Nokia laughing at how crappy it was. (to bad we didn't take it seriously back in 2003-4-5-6-7.....)

 

I agree that this was a design mistake on Microsoft's part.

But it's easy to fix with Classic Shell installed.

Class Shell has an option called "Skip Metro screen". It's under the Windows 8.1 Settings tab.

 

I personally think Microsoft forgot how to count. Went from Xbox 360 to Xbox One and now they skipped Windows 9 to Windows 10; which is basically what Windows 8 should have been to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I love Windows 8.1, but Microsoft really jumped the shark on that one. I hope the boot up time is as fast as Win 8.

 

Ahh okay... Yeah, well, I'm content with Windows 7, if Windows *10* at least just logs in properly I'll use it. I'm the type of person, why would you fix something that is not broken?

isn't the Desktop the heart and soul of every Windows Operating System?
or is there something about this *Metro* thing that replaces the importance of the desk top to do things quicker than a double click on desk top.

 

Didn't you know? Bigger numbers are obviously better! Why put out a 9 when you can put out a 10!

 

Interesting that you assume that '7' was meant to represent a number and that Microsoft has been counting. I assume that when you went to school counting went something like 1, 2, 3, 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10.

 

I know several people that tried Windows 8 and switched back to Windows 7. I also know a lot of people who decided to stay with Windows 7 instead of trying Windows 8. I know one person who runs Windows 8 on one extra desktop system with a touch monitor, but that person's primary workstation is still Windows 7. And I know some people who run Windows 8 with an alternative interface (like the one hippo linked to), but even those people have complained about specific problems in Windows 8. For example, mouse polling rates on gaming mice has been an issue with Windows 8.1 that has frustrated some FPS gamers. I cannot think of anybody I personally know who switched from Windows 7 to Windows 8 that liked Windows 8 enough to stick with Windows 8 using the stock metro interface.

 

this was fixed over a year ago... http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2908279

and was primarily due to developers who used raw polling data for the mouse, which was fine and dandy ages ago.. but not necessary any longer.

 

no doubt... P/Invoke is most awesome too.

 

I do.i use classic shell but I have it set to only open classicshell when I click. The windows key opens the metro menu. If you care at all about productivity, windows 8 makes it far more productive with quicker search features, better performance and more stability.
Windows 10 goes a step further and gives you the option of how you want to use it. Loving the tech preview of win 10 so far.

 

Searching is rarely necessary for me, aside from hitting the Windows key and typing 3 to 4 letters to load a program, so any advantages on that front are not important enough for me.

Better performance is nice, but I build my own systems and keep the hardware updated fairly regularly so performance is not really a problem either.

When it comes to stability, Windows 7 very rarely crashes and most of the crashes I have experienced were actually the fault of NVIDIA and a bug in one of their drivers involving my GTX 460.

Windows 8.x did not feel like a worthwhile investment when it was released and that situation hasn't really changed for me now. Windows 10 will likely be different though because it should be coming out at roughly the same time I make some hardware upgrades.

 

I was speaking specifically about searching for programs. The metro interface is not very keyboard and mouse friendly but the search in the start menu is an exception. Much more friendly than the old start menu for keyboard, but as a professional developer in a bit of a keyboard and shortcut key nazi. I don't use the mouse any more than i have to. Upgrade cost isn't something I factor in I guess because I have an ultimate msdn subscription so my only investment is my time.

 

I've pretty much been working in that direction myself. About the only thing I find annoying is typing my combination only for it to give me the wrong thing. It'd be nice if Windows 7 memorized the most often clicked entry when making a specific combination.

 

Or Microsoft really does not know that 9 goes between 8 and 10.

 

It all makes sense now!

 

Really? So in school you learn that Vista is the number between XP and 7?

Don't assume a name is a numeral. A

And if it is a numeral, don't assume it's base 10... 10 comes after 8 in base 9.

 

I learned that 9 comes after 8 and before 10.

 

There are people that needs "too much choice" and others that doesn't. Customers are also defined into many different target groups because everyone got a different taste. Even my perception of an average customer might be different compared to that of someone in a different country.

A general rule when operating a store is that you need a large selection of goods to attract customers but they will typically stick to a few percentages of the available products. It's ironic but true, a store with a small selection usually need more marketing or specialized products to attract customers.

 

Which is why the "in base 9" part of what he said is important.

 

I'm just giving him a hard time, seeing how he's taken a joke to heart.