So how dumb can Microsoft get?! (Windows "10")

An absurd attempt to get into the phone market by copying Google and Apple while not offering anything new
Everything about the Xbox One (Kinect, DRM, poor hardware, price, the fact that share holders are demanding they get out of the game market).

Minecraft.

Windows 8.

And to double down on the dumb, Windows "10".
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-29431412

Okay, let's just ignore the whole 7, 8, 10 thing because it's just too stupid to acknowledge and frankly I think everyone is already embarrassed for them. But here's the issues I see:

-They are still trying to do the smart phone buttons thing, despite it being universally panned.
-The biggest selling point is the Start Button. THE START BUTTON!
-Windows 7 still works perfectly fine and there is no reason to "upgrade"
-It's being put on XBox.

"The Start Menu is perhaps the most important thing that will make the desktop experience familiar to business users, and will help reduce resistance to its installation."

Not entice, "reduce resistance"!

I'm calling it now, Microsoft is deliberately driving their stock down to buy up shares.

 

Not enough info yet, it's not fundamentally bad though I don't think. More cross compatibility between devices would be awesome.

 

Don't they want to get rid of "Windows, Windows Phone and Windows RT", and just have "Windows 10"?
Is dumb, unnecessary and - most importantly - misleading.
Then we'd have a situation with Windows 10 != Windows 10. I can already see lots of average computer users running into the problem that most of their applications don't work, because they bought an ARM device.

 

somewhere from reddit.. so thats why Windows 10)))

 

So the lack of a Start button gets universally panned and, now that they're bringing it back people respond by panning it some more?

If the hadn't brought it back people would instead be panning them for not having listened.

I'm not much of an MS fan, but I actually like the fact that they're trying new stuff. As people are so fast to point out, Windows 7 is still perfectly good... so if you don't like the changes why whinge about what's in 8 and 10? Just, you know, keep using 7. Nobody's stopping you.

 

I hope it's an option, haven't missed the start menu for one second. Considering right clicking the start button gives a superior access to tools like the control panel in Windows 8 and 8.1 anyway.

 

It's the internet. The internet runs on porn and whining in large portions. It's the dark matter that fuels the web.

 

I do expect to upgrade at some point myself. Though it won't be to a higher version number but rather to a higher tier of Windows 7. I'm on Home Premium for the moment but I expect its memory limitation of 16GB to eventually be a problem.

Fortunately tiers above Home Premium have a much more reasonable limitation of 192GB.

 

They can call it whatever they like for all I care. Then again, I enjoy using Windows 8.1 and find Kinect to be a fun tech to use - so I may be the odd one here.

 

That's not exactly accurate. MS stopped selling Windows 7 almost a year ago. If I bought a new PC now, I would have trouble finding Windows 7 to install on it.

 

Personally, I'll be disappointed in any new Windows that doesn't use Minecraft as a desktop. I mean, why else buy it???

 

Which is precisely why I buy boxed copies of Windows.

 

First off who cares if it's 9 or 10 or even 8.2? It's just an arbitrary number.

From the small amount I've seen every addition looks solid. I enjoy using windows 8.1 but there are a few things I would change and it looks like 10 is going to address basically all my complaints (and those of the "haters").

As far as "reducing resistance" that sounds like a pretty good thing for Microsoft to concern itself with. Especially for business users who may not really be that computer savvy, even an objectively superior software upgrade will generally be resisted if it contains UI changes. Certain demographics do not like to have to re-learn things.

Anyway I totally understand people who prefer to stay on Windows 7 or don't want to use Windows at all but none of your points really give much evidence to support your assertion that Microsoft is "dumb"

 

It's at least plausible, I guess. I'm not sure I believe it, but if it really is that widespread, I could see it being worth skipping 9. They should *say* so, though, and not hide it.

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

It'll be fine. Just boot straight into desktop mode and use it that way. Assuming you can still do that. Works in 8. All of this GUI stuff drives me crazy. Trying to make my computer look like a dang cell phone.

 

Unless I have misunderstood something that's primarily the problem windows 10 is solving. The full screen start menu is gone ("modern" start menu is now fused with the traditional one), "modern" apps now run in a window like traditional ones. I have no clue about the charms bar and stuff.

 

"Charms"... lol the terms they come up with. I can't help but think the windows dev team must consist primarily of girls.

 

Is anyone really expecting microsoft naming conventions to make sense? Hell, windows 7 is still internally labeled windows version 6.1, and 7 was an ass pull to begin with

 

It is easy to complain about the failure of Windows 8. Forcing a tablet interface on desktop users was a stupid, pointless decision that proved Microsoft was completely disconnected from it users. Microsoft removed some of the most well liked features of Windows 7 (Start menu and Aero Theme), and then beat their own OS with an ugly stick until nobody outside of Microsoft would ever want to use it. Microsoft thought they could jump onto the latest buzz (mobile computing and tablets) by forcing their loyal Windows desktop users into using a tablet style interface. What Windows users wanted was to be able to run native Windows programs on their mobile devices. Users did not want to be forced to change how they operated their desktop devices.

Windows is even more annoying on servers. Starting with Windows 2012, Microsoft forced everybody to use a tablet style interface, even though nobody uses a touch screen monitor on a server. Windows admins had to use Google to find out how to reboot Windows 2012. Most servers run headless (no monitor), so a lot of admins were stuck trying to figure out how to work with the garbage tablet interface through a remote desktop session. Microsoft completely failed by forcing the tablet interface on administrators. Microsoft made a joke out of their own server product line. They back tracked slightly with Windows 2012 R2, which came with a fake start menu (which I guess was an improvement over no start menu at all).

Windows 8, 8.1, 2012, and 2012 R2 have proven that Microsoft's best days are behind them. Microsoft is unfit to lead in the technology sector. Linux has clearly won in the mobile and in servers. In desktop, Microsoft still leads, but Microsoft's own self inflicted wounds will eventually allow Linux to win in desktop.

 

Other than the start menu debacle, 8 is rock solid. But it's not cool to give credit where credit is due, so hater crusaders can only hate.
Maybe this is the year of the X desktop!!!

 

Rocking 8.1 here with classic shell. It's better than 7, faster than 7, and has no metro in sight. Unless I hunt for it in a moment of kinky perversion.

 

So what are your thoughts on Windows 10? I'm not a server admin so I can't contest your assertion about Linux clearly winning in servers (it seems plausible based on what I hear). As far as mobiles I assume when you say Linux has won you mean Android. Technically true I suppose but I don't think people really consider Android a Linux distribution in the sense that Windows vs. Linux -> WP8 vs. Android. Regardless MS is clearly NOT winning in mobile lol.

Maybe someday Linux will overtake Windows in the desktop world but I think that's a long way off for "normal people"

 

It is seems like a true.. a little bit more facts:
https://searchcode.com/?q=if(version.startswith("windows 9")

p.s seems like java wouldn't work in Windows if they would call it Windows 9. lol

 

I think Microsoft is really going to surprise everyone with this release. While many observers are going to be watching closely for any misstep, I predict that MS will out stupid themselves in many as-yet unknown, spectacular ways. At this point, in their life cycle, Microsoft is like a bull in a china shop blindly knocking down the entire strip mall while it tries to thrash it's way back to dominance.

 

On a side note: it looks freaking awesome!

 

Someone on reddit did a search of a lot of codebases (on a website made for that sort of thing, I can't recall which), and the search term ".startsWith("Windows 9" " actually did come up a LOT. I think it's actually quite a plausible explanation.

 

I am pretty sure this will do well for Microsoft. All the articles say that Windows 10 is mostly aimed at business users (at least for now), where adoption of Windows 8 and even 7 is reportedly low. They will now adress their concerns, i.e. of administrators, and with their new public test version rollout in the first half of 2015 they will get the private end user, too.

As a OS X user I don't get why the start menu is such a big deal, but all the articles say that the mix of Windows 7 and 8 that the Windows 10 start menu seems to be ... is a good idea.

On a general note, Microsoft is still dead-set on the idea that a common OS infrastructure for desktop and mobile platforms is a good idea, that being a fundamental difference to Apple's philosophy (at least that was the analysis when Windows 8 was announced). If they now bring back a more "desktop-ey" feel to Windows 10, it might very well work. That and better game performance (I read now that Windows 8 runs games faster than Windows 7, where it was slower upon release) will close the deal for the end user.

 

And if it is true, kudos for Microsoft for making a move to protect idiotic sloppy programmers from themselves. I've seen the same issue crop up with web developers who for whatever reason still think it's a good idea to do browser sniffing rather than feature detection. I've seen a lot of websites break in IE 10 and 11 because people are looking at the first digit of the version number and thinking it is an unsupported version or trying to implement hacks that were necessary for the older much less standards compliant versions of IE.

As for the OP... the post is more of the standard Microsoft hate drivel... it's flame bait. I personally like Windows 8 (and 8.1 which I use now). Just like @hippocoder, I use classic shell for the start menu and boot straight to desktop. I find it pretty great that I can run the same apps and profile on my Surface Pro that I can on my desktop and with a consistent experience.

If you don't like Windows 8, keep using Windows 7. Anyone that says they can't buy it is ridiculous. You can buy Windows 7 from Amazon, or a whole host of other places. Or, get MSDN or BizSpark... you can go back and install XP if you really want to.

 

Agreed. After changing a few settings and getting used to it, 8.1 is pretty slick. I've actually come to prefer the full-screen Metro Start Menu to the old style one. Everything feels faster and more responsive. Hell, my laptop boots and is fully usable in 10 seconds flat without a SSD.

I also don't see the problem with trying to have a unified OS across devices. Sure, MS doesn't have a great track record with consumer electronics outside XBox, but I would be trying the same thing if I was in their shoes.

 

Nothing wrong with a unified OS. I just cannot think of a good reason to strip options from the end user when it is trivial to offer both. Let the customer decide which is correct for them.

 

To me this best part of this news is the idea of having one app store for all windows devices. I am hoping Unity will run with this so we can create a game in Unity that handles different form factors and input methods and is deployed to a single app store that can then run on windows desktop, phone, tablet and xbox one.

 

Well, I don't actually need my os to be any different from my previous OS. Just faster. I really loathe playing tetris with metro or whatever BS they add to the new metro-start. It's annoying and pointless.

 

Getting rid of the start button was a terrible idea, but it seems they learned that people don't want a compromised desktop experience. I'd still say though that all of the hate Win 8 gets doesn't mirror the experience that I've had with it. I really wasn't looking forward to getting a computer with it before hand either due to all the bad word of mouth.

 

Doesn't seem like they learned the lesson they should have. They stripped out Metro, despite some people who like it, and bundled a minor version of it to the Start Menu.

I cannot ever see myself using the new functionality of the Start Menu on a desktop (I usually just hit Windows key, type three or four letters, and hit enter to load applications). If I were a Metro fan, or used a non-desktop computer on a regular basis, I wouldn't want a stripped down version. I'd want the full thing.

Microsoft needs to learn that choice is a good thing.

I've had a few opportunities to try it first hand but I've yet to see any real benefit to it over Windows 7. Any minor speed increases it may bring are offset by the fact that a boxed copy is about the same cost as upgrading my processor.

Now if they were to make the price more reasonable like they did with Windows 7's pre-order ($50 per box of Home Premium), I'd have less of an excuse to skip releases.

 

Windows 8 was actually 30€(or $)'s to upgrade for a few months or something after release. I upgraded for that and didn't regret it, but you're right there's not enough improvements to warrant the full price over 7.

Windows 10 looks decent, I'll probably upgrade if there's a heavily discounted price like that again.

 

Linux is used everywhere. Linux dominates in smartphones, servers, and other hardware devices (like routers, DVR, streaming video units, etc). It is true that users see Android, but that is still Linux under the hood. Windows only has a foot hold on desktop computing.

Over time Microsoft will lose ground in desktop systems because users have gotten trained to solve problems using non-Microsoft tech in all of the other markets. Kids these days care more about their smartphones than they do about desktop systems. When kids eventually do want to use a desktop system, Windows program support is not high on their list. Many kids will want a Mac to match their iPhone or iPad. Some kids will obviously want a Linux desktop of some kind.

As for Windows 10, I do think it is a step in the right direction. It is the OS that Windows 8 should have been. Windows 10 will probably be pretty well liked overall, but the blunders of Windows 8 and 8.1 have already chipped away heavily at Microsoft's relevance.

Microsoft will probably get lucky with some corporate users, though. A lot of corporate users stuck with XP until it was end of lifed and then jumped to Windows 7. Those users avoided the failures of Vista and Windows 8/8.1. Those same users might eventually jump from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and remain pretty happy overall, as long as Windows 10 lets those keep using the same programs that locked those users into Windows in the first place.

 

They did. In the Technical Preview at least, the Start Menu is an option labelled "Use the Start Menu instead of the Start Screen" which is checked by default. Disable that, and you're basically back in Windows 8.1.

Also, the Start Menu is only for desktops. Tablets and convertibles will still have the Start Screen and fullscreen Metro apps when in touch mode (i.e. when the keyboard is detached on the Surface)

Windows 10 is - at risk of sounding like a Microsoft fanboy - the logical conclusion of the "responsive design" principle. Build one OS to fit all devices, making modifications per form factor as needed. Windows 8 was an attempt at that, but they fell short of that goal - Windows Phone was still a separate platform - and ultimately they sacrificed some desktop features to make touch work better, and they paid the price in their user's trust.

 

I like this thread, in fact I think it should be retitled to 'so how dumb can I get?'

How can one possibly have a discussion about windows releases, without noting that MS has a track record of having roughly every second release be sucky? Windows 8 isn't a sign of MS failing to deliver, Windows 8 is a sign of MS trying out new idea's and concepts, while Windows 10 (if they continue the trend) will likely be a great, solid OS loved by consumer and business alike.

Have we all forgotten Vista? ME?

Then of course comes in the uninformed speculation about a product that we know little about, that seems to completely ignore some of MS core strengths - e.g. easy admin for enterprise settings, great productivity software, and great development tools.

That's not to say MS doesn't have some significant challenges, just that IMO the rants fail to actually address them.

 

Good to know. I was going to try the Technical Preview, but the site seemed adamant about running at 16KB/sec.

 

Really? Last time I bought Windows (not a year ago) it was still an option, so that hadn't occurred to me.

Still, with that in mind, you'd think that the people who winged about the changes from 7 to 8 would be happy that some of the things are changing back. It means that they're now officially available options again.

 

They stopped selling boxed copies at that date, I believe it is still available as OEM, so if you bought a premade machine you do still have the option to have Windows preinstalled (but that might stop soon as well).

In any case, I don't care too much either way. As long as it has a way of launching the software I use and then gets out of the way, I have no problem with it. I was even happy with Vista (at least after SP1, because prior to SP1 network copy pasting was broken, which was kinda... weird).

 

You made me curious so I decided to check Dell and HP. Both still sell Windows 7 in addition to Windows 8.

 

I buy OEM, and I just order it along with the bits for whatever computer I'm going to put it on. What they have on shelves at retail isn't something I've ever paid attention to.

 

The meteoric uptake in Apple products in recent history seems to indicate otherwise. My understanding is that people want choice, but are actually happier when they don't have to think about it, and thus don't get dissatisfied by and/or waste lots of time trying to "fix" minor imperfections.

 

Well, even Apple though sells their phones in two sizes now (which I have to admit, is an un-Apple-like move).

 

Sure, but compare the range of config options in iOS to the range of config options in Android. You can't spend hours fiddling with your iOS device to make it feel "just right" because there's nothing there to fiddle with. Your infinitely configurable Android device, on the other hand...

And with Android it's not just your own fiddling that's an issue. How many vendors provide Android devices that are already customized with bloatware and other crud that actually make the experience worse? They feel like they have to add something to be different, but if the thing they added was going to make it better wouldn't the original developers have done it in the first place? (Not necessarily, but you get my point.)

Plus, the decisions Apple gets you to make are super easy. Do I want my phone/tablet to come in small or large size? How much storage space to I need? Compare that to the onslaught of tech specs that go hand in hand with an Android advert... about which you have to make a choice because there's so darn many Androids, many with minute differences.

 

The only reason to upgrade now is because you can paste in the command prompt

 

You can still buy boxed copies of Home Premium and Professional through Amazon (Retail, not OEM).

Downloading the Windows 10 Technical Preview from my MSDN subscription now... going to give it a try myself. Spoke with one of my colleagues who has it running on a company laptop tonight and he loves it.

 

But again, with iOS 8 for example, new possibilities for... fiddling opened up. I mean custom keyboards on iOS? Unheard of (and with iOS 8 being so new, we haven't seen much yet). It's still not in the Android levels of config, but as I said I see Apple leaning towards *some* choice recently.

In any case, I see your point and I don't exactly disagree. I just didn't like how absolute "people want choice, but are actually happier when they don't have to think about it" sounded, so I supplied a counter-argument.

There is a thing as too much choice, there is a thing as too little choice, people like different things