So, does anyone want to talk about the controversy around Farcry 5?

In case you missed it the trailer for FC5 dropped and Ubi made a VERY controversial choice for the setting.

Montana.

What's so controversial about that, you ask?

Well, the main villain is clearly an evangelist zealot. People are taking offence that it's being so critical of both America and Evangelists, while at the same time touching on the VERY sensitive issue of succession (We had a civil war over this very issue and the topic keeps flaring back up).

Personally, I think that this is a well needed commentary that US needs to hear and take some perspective on some very warped perspectives we've been letting grow.

But I also feel like Ubi will sand down all the edged to make it as innocuous as possible. I expect them to cover up the evangelism angle with a fictional cult that bears that symbol everywhere. And I don't expect them to make any compelling arguments from the villain and let them be a generic evil strawman.

In the meantime Ubi seems to be leaning into it and using the controversy to promote the game. Remember when they did exactly that with FC4?

Anyway, what do you all think about it?

 

Nothing wrong in general with entertainment touching on sensitive subjects. You can do movies and books about these topics, and no one bats an eyelid. Games aren't really any different. If anything games add a unique way to reexamine historical issues by letting players participate in the decisions and conditions that were prevalent at the time.

Its a well established game marketing technique. Companies will stop using it when it stops being so effective. Getting a bunch of religious folk fired up about something is fairly simple. And then they will make enough noise so that everyone hears about your game. Its especially effective for games because the offended group isn't really the target audience, meaning you aren't 'poisoning the well'.

Link? I'll go watch it and then provide further thoughts.

 

I think this is it. Sorry, I'm not able to view it at the moment to make sure.

Also, I agree that they won't be losing any evangelist sales since they boycott practically everything as it is. But I do see them upsetting American nationalists.

Typically extreme patriots are NOT open to commentary on social issues in America, especially from a French entertainment company.

 

Dunno, I'm from 'Straya ...

 

Wow i saw a news somewhere and i just saw the game cover (not full size), and i though it was fake for some reasons:



When i saw the thumbnail i though someone just put something together for a fake announcement, idk there is just something about that cover that make it look "fake" XD
Plus the countryside look felt strange so i didn't bother more, now seeing the video it looks fine and obviously it's not fake

Anyway i don't see an issue about this kind of topic for a game, i think it's actually pretty good. I don't know much about it cause im not american, and even though i don't expect to take and history lesson while playing Far Cry, it may push people to know a bit more.

 

So, I hate to be the one to break it to you. But that trailer is not far off of how the rest of the world views America. At least down here in 'Straya ...

So what's controversial about it?

 

Rest of the world?

Hell, that's how I view most of America.

 

Hahahaha I just think its funny that Ubi made the setting Montana, that's where I live! Though by no means am I an evangelical. I am something of a misfit here, most people are conservatives and many people are in to "the outdoors". I'm quite the opposite. Many people who are from out of state are here for the scenery and recreation...

I gotta admit though. I'd never seen more beautiful scenery before the move.


That was taken oh...3 nights ago. ^_^

Jealous?

 

I don't see any controversy.

If people get offended over something like that, the best idea would be to let them be offended, but completely ignore them.

There was already Bioshock Infinite, which, if I recall it, had a highly religious antagonist (if I remember correctly).

 

Places with good Internet as opposed to 'Murica and 'Straya.

 

Is that somehow related to that dude jim jones?
This reminds me this game:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/339830/The_Church_in_the_Darkness/

 

It's probably not the best time. We have a progressive left that is bordering on becoming militant (if they weren't scared to death of guns) who see cis white males as public enemy number 1. How long do you think it would take before the villain is re-skinned as Trump? Five years ago, nobody would have batted an eye, but right now this is dancing around a powder keg.

As much as a game in Big Sky country sounds great, I don't think this is the story we need.

 

I don't know about this being controversial. But whenever you pick a part of the gaming population and make them the bad guys, you run the risk of blowback of some sort.

On the other hand, if you make it fun to be the bad guys ... you probably win.

 

...For some reason your post made me wonder if a game where USA is portrayed as a villain would sell well. Not sure why.

 

We had bioshock infinite and outlast 2 already, that's really tame already.

Also @RockoDyne, you missed all those years with de facto brown enemy, just because we had a bit of variety does not mean it's liberal agenda, it's more like going through the list, right next after gangster ghetto, mad scientist, african dictator, asian invasion, etc ... And like I pointed white redneck cultist is already a tradition, they haven't innovate at all, they just copy. Don't be a conspiracy nutjob like SJW, whatever that mean.

 

Anytime you're portraying a historical or "real-world" event you're going to upset some people on your coverage of the event. There will always be historical bias from both the creators and the complainers - and both will complain about each other's perceived bias, you just can't escape it.

Other than that, I'm just stopping by to watch the brewing political arguments.

 

That is... just so uninformed and unintelligent. I thought discussing politics was forbidden on these boards?

TBPH I don't think there's any controversy here. Sounds a lot like making a mountain out of a molehill.

FarCry5 features a unique setting with a few charicitures/stereotypes but you know what--who cares? Why can't we just let games be games without getting upset?

 

Well, he was first and foremost a communist, and if they make the bad guys communist Christians, then Christians AND progressives would probably throw a fit. So I'm going to put my money on NO, but I really wish it was.
That actually would be controversial.

 

It actually looks interesting to me. Seems like something different in some ways at least. And damn I am usually not one to pay attention to the graphics but something about this game just looks fantastic to me. Of course, those are probably all just the cut scenes... hmm... actually makes me think I'd like to see this as a movie. Yeah actually I think it was when the tune kicked in that really brought it all alive (nice creative touch there lol).

Anyway I think maybe @Billy4184 and @ShadowK may have a new target for art when this comes out. Possibly. All depends on the difference between what the video shows and the actual gameplay scenes.

On the controversy part... well sure there will be some people throwing a fit. There is always some group throwing a fit saying they are a victim. But if they weren't throwing a fit over this game they'd just find something else. So this game existing or not does not change that.

 

It's all about context. I doubt there was any intentional agenda here, but that doesn't mean there isn't a statement being made in our current sociopolitical climate. Five years ago this game could have come out and it would've been fine, but the country wasn't on the verge of exploding. There was no Maxine Waters back then, flabbergasted that the president hadn't been impeached yet. There were no SJW's inflaming every possible race issue, and no one cared about your preferred pronouns.

The only thing I really find controversial is the time, because now is not the time. I don't even care that christians are being portrayed as evil. The issue is we now have people primed to see them as "their enemy".

 

I think there will be a lot of people offended by it. I am personally one of them actually. I realize that technically they're portraying it as a "cult", and I don't like cults either, but there seem to be undertones of a larger criticism of Christianity as a whole -- as something blind, unintelligent, and even evil. So, Ubisoft seems to be casting a religion that does a lot of good in this world as something bad. Which I don't think is a good thing at all. It's kind of lying about what Evangelical Christianity actually is as well, and shows they don't have a good understanding of it.

That being said though, I think they'll go through with it, and people who have no problems will play it. Personally, I simply won't be buying it, or playing it. But honestly, I don't care if other people play it. It's a free market.

 

Thing about powder kegs is there will always be a spark. If it's not this game, it will be something else. I'm not close enough to the situation to tell. But it seems that games like this reflect culture and attitudes, rather then drive them.

It's certainly targeted at tarring all of Christianity. I know it's easy to play the cult game, did it myself for years. Those Christians over there are bad evil cults, but not my group, we are good Christians.

But now I've stepped away from the whole thing*, I see it differently. Looking from the outside in, I see differences in degrees of evil. Not differences between good and evil. On the net it's hard to claim that any religion is doing more good then harm these days.

* Really need to get around to updating my handle.

 

Well just to clarify, I'm not saying in real life anything in particular is, or is not, a cult. I'm simply saying that, to me, it seemed like Ubisoft was portraying the "bad guys" in this game as a cult. At least that was the impression I got.

I mean, we can argue/discuss whether or not Christianity as a whole is good or bad, but this forum isn't the correct forum for such a discussion I'm sure lol.

 

Seems to me the only people who will get offended by this are idiots who would be fine if the enemy was any other race/religion and those who get offend by any violence in video games. The "Christian" extremists have been the villains of many, many books, movies, etc. Even James Bond had one. Well, a drug running televangelist anyway.

 

Totally. I only brought it up to mention there are different opinions on the issue.

 

Wait, I think I get your point now. You are saying game is targeting fundamentalist 'cult' groups. Which means much of Christianity will easily be able to put this as 'other' rather then directed at them. Its an interesting line to walk. But either way controversy in games normally pays off big time.

 

Before this get locked lol

I want to point out they released some short before the gameplay reveal that goes full cult.

One of them was a pastor who got his church (literal building and the community) destroyed by the cult. I think he represent the other side of christianity, one focus on community over blind following.

I wouldn't say it's an attack on christian.

Well I'm black I don't remember such time LMAO, maybe if you are not from a minority you were sheltered from having to be bashed constantly by your identity. Funny things is that black people, when you listen to them, actually criticism liberal even more, that's literally the plot of get out (liberal are evil and only pretend).

Truth is that when you look at history, elite create the divide by pitting the need of two artificially created group by making small useless favor to group 1 and making them fear group 2, they experiment on group 2 things they will use with group 1 later and make group 2 envy the small favor of group 1, what's happening is that in this context, they had the super predator "black" in the 90s wit the crack epidemic, now they have poisoned white poor suburb with the same things, but they keep them distracted with the black.

The strategy is simple, divide to conquer, experiment power abuse on group 2 until pressure is impossible to contain, use the explosion to pit group 1 vs group 2, then start experimenting on group 1, when group 1 explode, pit group 2 against group 1 because they hadn't the long legacy of power abuse, now the base are fighting each other instead of supporting each other.

Come back and make insane promise in two group using two artificial label to mask the common groud of the elite, so you have the elite that promise thing to group 1 and say the other one is evil, and some other elite that do the same with group 2, it maintain them in power because your need became their in group currency. Stuff is every gain they do is a trade off of another need, so both group get endlessly abuse because they can never have their needs addressed at the same time, if you gain something it's to lose elsewhere.

Historically that's been going on for so long, it's been perfected to a T, and that's even been discussed by them frankly and openly, whenever you hear about compromise to their base, that's what they are doing, they think they have ownership on yourself, that they must extract value from you for their career, and they don't expect you to be at their level, they discuss about it like they don't belong to the same humanity.

That's how you had old country song about being poor but proud because at least you were white, then you look at the financial history of this music and you see they were weeding out black country artist to give poor white people a sense of common identity to pit against other. Same thing happen with rap, people with money use wealth to cull the culture from people seeking positive change to market the gangsta image and stupid lyrics that plague the genre. If you poison the well you don't have to fight and be challenged.

I do't think current president is any different.

/damn late night rant

 

Gonna guess Missoula or Bozeman?

 

Actually the setting would be interesting to me.

However, controversy aside, there are other things I dislike:
There's already a preorder for February 2018. That's a bit too soon.
Another issue is that ubisoft language-locks the game in several region. The same thing as with Watchdogs 2.

 

In the same way that not all Christians and/or Americans are like the enemies portrayed in the trailer I watched, nor are all Muslims or middle-eastern people like they are often portrayed in movies or games. [Edit] By which I mean to say, I don't see that trailer as anti-Christian and/or anti-American. It has enemies who happen to be Christian and/or American, but that's not why they're bad guys. They're bad guys because they do nasty stuff like kidnap people at gunpoint, and that would make them bad guys regardless of their backstory. [/edit]

I understand that stuff is more confronting when it's set in your own back yard compared to when it's at a distance happening to people you don't identify with. Is that what this boils down to?

I'm not at all familiar with the subtleties of what's happening in the US right now, so there could well be details that I'm not picking up on that would change my point of view. (Of course, the same can probably be said for westerners consuming much of the media we make about us saving the day by shooting foreign people in foreign places.)

 

When big companies put together a art package that just needs somebody to mod it into a game people will actually want to play.

Anyway I haven't bought a game from them since err I can't remember now, I played farcry3 which I thought was ok for a screwbiesoft game, aside from that most the stuff that comes out of that company is like console trash to me. With storylines that I just don't give a S*** about it and gameplay and bugs that make indie developers look like seasoned pros.

And anyone remember the controversy over the farcry 4 map that was basically a copy paste of the previous game.. this game trailer already shows gimpses of the same old farcry like gameplay mechanics with enemy unit camps, truck supplies moving around.. I don't see anything original or improved gameplay wise happening.

I guess they are like the Wimpy burger joint of game development...it's all looks and no substance.

 

It was funny to see neogaf progressives ecstatic to go on white-only killing sprees only to be disappointed when they learned that there's black bad guys too.

 

You know, I've got to say, when I heard that a FC5 trailer was dropping I rolled my eyes and thought "Well, of course there is. I'm so done with this series. I guess they tried something new with Primal, but I really doubt they can do a setting that will capture any of my interest. Hell, I bet they do space this time."

Then the second it popped up I literally said out loud, to my self "Montana?!!".

So, I guess it's not THAT terrible of a stunt.

Yeah, I think the general moral model that Ubi subscribes to in their narratives is Aristotle's.

"Not all [blanks] [blank]."

So in this case they will have a fringe cult leader who is cartoonishly evil, and most likely has a substory that shows he's a hypocrite, but meanwhile there will be a pastor who is unconditionally good and most like your Obi Wan.

 

I do hope they actually update the game mechanically. Their sequels tend to feel more like overpriced and drawn out expansion packs rather than new games. As far as the controversy goes, I've seen more people say "Hey, there's a controversy!" than I've seen people actually have a problem.

 

Me too, though I don't tend to frequent places where I'd be likely to run into the controversy itself.

 

This is the way with all controversies. You hear from the vocal minority on the far ends, but most people have rather moderate viewpoints and sit quietly in the middle. Either because they don't care, don't have a strong conviction, or are afraid speaking their mind will get them branded as one of the extremists.

 

It's an interesting take, but I also think right now America is in a struggle between ideologies, so personally...I probably won't play it as there is already too much spew going on, on both sides for my taste.

Here's a thought. From what I understand, the guy is a religious extremist, and succession is also in the mix. Try putting different categories of people in his role, and such.

For example, what if the game portrayed the leader as a militant muslim, pushing for sharia law in montana?
Or a homosexual/transgender peson, pushing for a gay-only state?
Or a hispanic governor, pushing for california to rejoin mexico?
Or a socialist whoever, pushing for a socialist state.
And a hippy, pushing for a big commune state. Whatever.

Remember...the game is probably portraying these guys as bad guys.

Think about how different your reactions would be, I'm willing to bet this thread would have been pretty different in tone. I'm just saying...overall, I don't find the topic to my taste. Now in the US isn't a time to step on folks on either side, or demonize or diminish them.

 

I think the answer to that is that there is actively a very well known "totally not a white supremacist" group in Montana pushing to do exactly that and Neo-Nazism is on the rise BIG TIME in the US. That makes the story poignant and true.

 

Calexit?
And I'm not sure I would agree that Neo-Nazism is on the rise "Big Time", any more than a lot of other crusades people are on. I think a lot of things get overblown by the media entertainment industry, most folks are just living regular lives.

 

The difference with your first item is that it doesn't make any sense. Montana has a Muslim population below half a percent (restricted to two counties, even, from what I can tell).

Building a physical community restricted to your sexual preference doesn't make much sense, and is also not the goal of any social rights movement I'm aware of.

The California succession idea isn't a terrible one, and is actually relevant to current cultural happenings. Personally, I'd view the assignment of a Hispanic governor as a plausible plot point to set that story up, so I think it would mesh well, and would be an interesting story to see play out.

Socialism (in the context of modern, American Socialism) is more focused on public welfare and spending more on education and free healthcare than it is to its Soviet cousin. So that doesn't make much sense in the context of pushing for their own state, either, since the movement is interested in assisting those in need. I guess you could try framing it as wanting a place they could make a haven for people to move to, but... I don't think it fits.

And hippies? Really? Is that even a relevant demographic for anything anymore? Other then the person you see down at the local record store, I don't know that hippies are a movement worth discussing.

Personally, I find addressing social issues head-on in games to be a tough sell. It usually ends up being hamfisted and awkward, or they pull their punches too much and don't end up saying anything worthwhile, or worse, they miss the point entirely and think they're talking about the issue, but they're actually just using it as a coat to convey a different message.

I like the way Deus Ex handles social issues. I may be a dude with robot arms and legs, electro-punching my way through some fictional futuristic version of a foreign city, but no other game has made me feel as close to being a minority as Deus Ex. When I'm forced to use a separate subway line from "Naturals" and slandered as I walk down the street, it's the closest this white, straight male has come to feeling prejudiced. And if you don't want to deal with the game making a statement on race, religion, etc, you can just pretend it's a game about robo-people and ignore the social message.

 

If this is getting people riled up, they should make:

- Grand Theft Auto: Montana

In all honesty, the fact that something like this is a political or cultural issue says that there are major political and cultural problems in the US. People are too sensitive to slight.

But holy crap, those graphics, so friggin realistic.

 

That's actually a great point. Rockstar has a track record of lampooning everything. With GTA V taking place on the west coast, there was no shortage of ridicule dished out to both sides of America's political ideologies. Everything from Republican Space Rangers and their NPR radio programs to gun-toting nuts in the countryside and all walks of life strutting the beach.

People make a bit of fuss now and then over GTA, but it never really offends anyone, because it's such obvious satire. The message is just as valid, often times, but it's done in a way to allow the player to easily dismiss any inferred slight against their beliefs.

I honestly don't think it's an issue. Journalists will write about it as if it is because you kinda have to in order for it to be an article. Nobody cares to read about something that a single person thinks may be offensive, but if you see an article about how a whole group of people is allegedly enraged, you're more curious. We're just drawn to more polarizing news, I guess.

Yes. As much as I always say I'm not a graphics whore, man do I love me some pretty graphics...

 

Not exactly. A "big" (big percentage-wise, because as others have mentioned there's little controversy, and the overwhelming majority of the controversy here is by liberals all excited to hate on the group presented in the game) portion of it is what's actually happening.

We aren't having far right evangelical groups attempt to take over entire counties and police it as they see fit. From what I understand there have been very, very few incidents in any way similar, and they haven't ended with the militias in charge. I don't even know of one off the top of my head.

While on the other hand, we most certainly had (have!) militant Muslim groups attempting to kill people, Muslim nations waging war, and all that.

The problem is that this game is exaggerating a situation that isn't reality, while most of those other games are telling stories that accurately represent reality (at one point or another, perhaps not now).


And let me just say, those villains look ridiculous. I don't know anyone on the right who would wear any of the fashion they're sporting.

 

Well, obviously Ubisoft doesn't want a Charlie Hebdo-style attack on their offices. Even crazy fundamentalist christians don't go that far against their opposition so having them as the villains in a game is a pretty safe move.

 

Now that you mention it, when I initially watched the trailer, heard the language, saw the forced conversions, the convoys of trucks with flags driving around.. my impression was:
Oh, it's *actually* a game about Islamism in places like Syria/Libya/Phillipines etc.. They seem to have watered down ISIS, put them in Montana, converted them to Christianity, and made them rednecks, because not doing those things would be absolutely disastrous for them from a PR standpoint, from all sides, and could even result in their offices getting blown up..
That was my initial thought.

But actually, it just ends up being so over the top that I kinda like the bad characters from what I've seen lol
"Souls don't harvest themselves" hahaha ^_^

I agree with Sargon that the petition with hardly any signatures on it was almost certainly not written by a right winger. It reads like it was written by an SJW trying and failing to pretend to be a butt hurt right winger.
The amount of articles linking to such a non event is also clearly orchestrated.

 

This is exactly what happens. If you mock both sides, you will inevitably be called the opposite of whomever you are mocking at the time. These people's brains are literally only capable of binary thought. Neither side of the extreme can fathom the notion that you simply believe that people should be judged on their character and not arbitrary identities. The problem with not speaking up is that it give the impression that everyone on the right hates black people and everyone on the left hates straight white cisgendered men.

 

This is true. I still remember horrors of Divinity: Dragon Commander. However...

I found this part of the game extremely silly, cringeworthy, ridiculous. It nearly ruined the game. The issue there is that mechanized part of populace was stronger and more powerful than non-mechanized one. You can't oppress an army of abrams tanks. So you'll have an equally hard time oppressing cyborgs. They're superior to non-cyborgs.

Honestly, playing the opression card the other way around - where cyborgs hunt non-modified population down.... that would make MUCH more sense, and a crafty writer could spin the story in many amazing ways.

Main conflict in Mankind Divided, IMO, is an example of fairly bad writing I'd prefer not to see in games. Someone thought about bringing up a social problem, and awkwardly shoehorned it into a game world in the way where it doesn't even organically fit into the world.

 

As I understand, the reasoning for the "oppression" in Mankind Divided was because in the original Deus Ex game, mechanical augments are looked down upon. They were trying to set that up (albeit poorly).

 

Really depends where you are standing. From the perspective of a guy in the Middle East, this is exactly what's happening. I mean your presidents do tend to say "God bless America" at the same time as they order large scale attacks on sovereign nations. They then proceed to dismantle the existing power structure and put in an American one, regardless of what people want.

And there are always isolated incidents of fundamentalist Christians doing crazy things in the name of God. I've met multiple pastors that given half the chance, would attempt to create something like in the video.

The primary difference between evangical Christians and fundamentalist Muslims is one of wealth. The Christians are wealthier, and thus tend to be less inclined to radical moves like all out war.

But don't kid yourself that Christianity was any different when times were desperate.

 

Sorry to hop in here and shut this down, but we need to stay away from discussing political and religious views. Please take a glance over our Developer Network Rules and make sure we are doing our best to adhere to them to create the best environment possible.

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