Should we recommend Modding instead of Game Dev?

So we've all seen the "MMO" and "Open World" threads with guys who have little to no real experience or skill. The community here is kind of split on what kinds of responses are appropriate. Regardless, the reality is that a random guy without millions of dollars and no skills or experience has no real shot at success with these large scale projects.

Instead of recommending "do pong!" or "follow your dreams" - what about recommending modding instead?

Modding has a lot of advantages:
- You're working on an existing game and don't need to reinvent all the systems.
- You have access to all of the existing content in the game.
- There are existing communities with people who will help each other succeed.
- There are often powerful and user friendly tools to help people mod games.
- Successful mods can be hugely successful. From DayZ, Team Fortress, Counter Strike, DotA/LoL - truth is many of the most beloved modern games started out as mods.

Is there any advantage to not recommending modding to newbies who don't at least have a programming background? Isn't this a better road for most of these guys, most of the time?

 

I don't really have any interest in helping people get started because the entire internet is jam packed with information a child can understand. If this still has people confused then it's my opinion they're not suited for game dev. So basically, if you can't read and make some effort of some kind (I'm pretty sure anyone can)... why is it even our responsibility at this point?

Happy to help those who help themselves though.

 

It's not our responsibility, but the fact is a lot of those MMO threads you have to lock down because of the constant "do pong" vs "dream crushing" debate that almost inevitably follows. Suggesting modding might be a better solution to these endless black holes of internet debate.

Also, honestly, why don't more people invest themselves in modding instead of game dev to start - if you don't have commercial aspirations, a strong background in programming or lots of money to burn - why bother with game dev over modding in general?

 

Its not a silly idea. Its not as dramatic as saying go do Pong. But it might be useful. There are a ton of decent game devs that got their first experience in modding.

 

Most games arent setup for modding without special tools, so no not really. I dont think its an easier answer than make pong.

 

While I agree that it isn't a bad idea, I think the reality is that it would just become "Mod" vs "Pong" vs "Dream" debate.

Frankly, I am with hippo on this. If you have to ask where/how to start, you probably aren't the right type for this. Games are complex, and require tons of problem solving and research. If you are that lost from the start, you won't get far.

 

There's too much learning material suited to every type of learner there is... tutorials, examples, video tutorials... any person who wants to learn game development and has an IQ greater than or equal to 100 can learn this stuff.

Many times when people come here, they make one post and leave.

There should be a rule:

Don't respond to a person in the General Discussion forum from unless it is not their first post. Put a sticky that says, "NOTICE: All first time posters must read this! (This means you!)"

The first line of the sticky can say in big, bold letters that say:

FIRST TIME POSTERS POSTING IN THE GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM WILL NOT HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED IF THE ANSWER IS ALREADY CONTAINED WITHIN THIS FAQ:

And inside of there, it gives guidelines on asking about MMO's and other stuff like that, with FAQ with questions answered by our best representatives (Like @Ony , @Gigiwoo , @zombiegorilla , @angrypenguin or @hippocoder) that we can easily vote on.

The last line can say: YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Problem solved, let's go get ice cream.

 

Double chocolate for me please

 

Ice cream? I found a new ice cream called Halo Top. It has 1/4 the calories of B&J, and it's actually really darn good. High protein + fiber, and no artificial sweeteners. YUM is all I can say.

Gigi

 

It's true that there's loads of learning material. Unfortunately, a lot of it is terrible. That's not a big deal for experienced people, as we can get a general idea of whether someone knows what they're talking about or not really quickly and move on if it's junk. But for a newbie that's really difficult, and newbies are the people it matters to the most.

A solution very similar to that was in place for a while, actually. @Gigiwoo started a thread with advice about starting to make games, and a whole bunch of people chimed in. I think it was stickied for about a year, and questions were commonly answered by linking to it. About a year ago, though, it got un-stickied.

 

I once had a computer science major ask me how to log on but I didn't start telling her how she shouldn't be majoring in computer science or anything like that. She did graduate.

 

Well... let's make a thread for it, and then link to the thread. Sure, it'll be constantly necro'd but I think that will prove something to somebody someplace. That'll show you dad...

 

How's that? They'll not waste time in a thread that insults them rather than helps them. Really, how often in these threads of wisdom from regulars do you see an OP return? And if they know what necro'd is, which is less likely than more as naivity is a wonderful thing, they'll likely leave the forums wretching and wondering what is wrong with the poster.

 

I don't know You still have to learn scripting languages. Jass for Warcraft three and Starcraft 1 had an even weirder one I don't know how much easier it would be

 

Never. But at least all of this "MAKE PONG" business could be contained to one thread... come to think of it, though, that thread will be locked in no time. Nevermind.

 

Ideally such a thread would be locked after the initial post. Then you don't need to worry about them seeing arguments.

 

Wasn't that my initial idea. @_@

 

You're assuming I bothered to read half the posts in this thread.

 

Is modding genuinely easier these days than simply following the tutorials in the learning section followed by developing a simple mobile game using assets from the store?

 

I don't think so.

I think that a lot of people should just learn a gaming engine, instead of trying to, say, add tanks to skyrim or something like that. I also think that modding is vastly overrated. Also, using unity will be easier than modding skyrim/oblivion.

That's just my opinion.

 

Gotcha!

Next time I'll just say "Do a Pong mod".

 

While all very true, being able to find good information is a pretty critical skill as well, at every level. Unless they are completely new to the internet also (in which case game development is something the arent ready for), they can at least discover one of the thousands of other threads on the topic here and all over the internet. Either they didn't bother to look, or they somehow expect that the entire process of game development has changed and the answers will be different than the were a few hours ago.

I feel that there should be a single topic for "where do I start?", "what kind of/will this computer work with unity?' And "I'm new and want to build a massive game..." Each. And new topics on those subjects should closed an pointed to the applicable one.

 

For the absolute beginner everything is daunting and makes no sense. The IDE is illogical, the docs are confusing, the terminology is alien. All you see as a beginner is all these people who know something you don't know refusing to help you because you don't know what they know... It's like looking up a cliff at a bunch of people having a party that you want to be at, and you're like... how do I get up there? And they're like... pfft, if you have to ask, you'll never know. Not cool dudes.

Once I got pointed to the Learn section it was all over, though.

YEEESSSS

 

There is already a while forum subsection for it. Will one more thread make a difference?

It's not about being easier. It's about moving them from our community to someone else's.

But in a serious note I might suggest the next MMO noob poster try's to incorporate some of their ideas in an existing game. It can't hurt, and the variety might be good for me.

 

I'm simply going to start redirecting people to the MMO development class on 3D Buzz. Most likely with the warning that it expects them to be both knowledgeable of game development and Unity as well as a link to where they can start learning.

 

I've been there, and gave up 1 or 2 times before I managed to get a grasp on basic things in Unity. And still, I think the barrier to entry needs to be raised, not lowered. The industry as a whole would be better off in my opinion.

 

"You can lead a horse to water..."

Gigi

 

"...but you can't make them think. "

 

Of course it is. But this place isn't like a conversation IRL, everything is recorded and persists. Generic "how do I start". And others are asked over and over, they need to start with those, instead of just asking again, the answer doesn't change. Or as you pointed out there is big link at top called learn, and a section called getting started. We should politely point them there and let them know once they have looked at that material we can help answer thier questions. This isn't a live chat vtc, most of the very beginner questions are all right there and don't require waiting for a reply.

I like when noobs just introduce themselves and talk a bit about where they are in the process and where the want to go. It's much more polite and interesting rather than a random cry for help.

 

Last week I made an open world MMO, it's not that hard, you just need to learn to concentrate on essentials.

 

I suspect that for a lot of these people asking isn't so much about getting the information as it is having a conversation with like-minded people. Yes, a forum does indeed record every discussion had, but searching for and reading a discussion other people had ages ago isn't at all the same thing socially as having a similar discussion of your own.

That said...

... I agree that if that is what they're after then this is a far better way to go about it.

Separately, though, humans have a tendency to think that their case is special even when it really isn't.

 

I'd recommend any getting started topics go in this surprising place.

 

I'd recommend that this is how you get started.