Should I take my hobby full time

Hi, for some background.
I am currently finishing my undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering and in the top 25% of my class. I have been struggling with many aspects about the industry and whether i would like to be a part of it when I graduate (if i decide not to become an engineer I would still finish my undergrad as i only have one year left).
I have been programming since very young and about 2 years ago decided to try game development, I haven't actually finished a project (full game) but I have played around with a couple projects as a hobby. Its just something I do for fun when I don't want to work on my coursework.

If i do decide to make this my career path it is not to be rich, famous or any of the other cliches that get thrown at this question when asked and I fully understand that it may become a hell of a lot less fun turning a hobby a career. I would like to get an honest opinion of people in small independent teams, one man teams or even someone working at a big developer about the industry and careers in the industry.

Has anyone else been in the situation of giving up a potentially high paying career for game development?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

That's a big question. I am not qualified to answer that. But I will share a couple thoughts.

I took a few detours before my career got going. My detours weren't with game development, but other distractions. I ended up back working in my original field of study.

One mantra I like to live by is, If you enjoy your work, you never have to work a day in your life.

Having said that, it is important to put bread on the table and a roof over your head. Getting your degree will help you get your first job. Back that up with a few years experience and you will have a career and opportunities down the track.

You could always try to have your cake and eat it to. Many of us here have day jobs and write games at night and on the weekend.

Good luck.

 

Generally, I think in any endeavor if you enjoy what you do it is always better than if you don't if everything else was equal (you didn't mention if you enjoy mechanical engineering or not). Obviously, in real life everything else is never equal so its a very difficult question. If money of any kind is not the objective then obviously pick the one you like better. For most people though money enters into the equation at some level so you have to weigh the pros and cons there is no way around it. Big enterprise gaming earns a decent wage but it is a very competitive field. Articles and wage reports can certainly be found on sites like gamasutra. Indie games and smaller start-ups of any kind are obviously risky and tough to succeed. In general if you go down that route you should have a serious plan that is well thought through.

As far as myself, I used to have a high paying job as a web developer at a fortune 500 company for almost 10 years. In the end found that I overall didn't enjoy being in such a large place where process and paperwork tended to take up a large chunk of my day. I overall was good at that old job but grew more discontent as the years went by. It certainly had advantages (especially the paycheck and vacation time) but for me they didn't outweigh the discontent. I also am part of a two income household with no kids so that makes things easier. Last summer I quit that job and am currently trying to make an income as a indie developer (one man company). My first game was adequate but still pretty simple. I certainly learned a lot and have much yet to learn in games. As far as income goes nothing much so far but there is always the hope that I can do better with my second project. I certainly have a timeline with dates though if that doesn't come to fruition as I think it's always important to have a plan.

I can honestly say that for myself though it was the correct decision to leave. I certainly enjoy my work a heck of a lot more now and am happier. Even if this whole plan ends up a year from now being financially a failure I can 100% tell that I belong more at a small company than a large corporation. I also know that I enjoy much more programming for video games than I did in web development. It's not so much the languages/technology for me as being passionate about what I'm creating. Having learned those two tidbits are valuable even if if my independent projects don't take off and I need to work at a company again. It will help me know what I should or shouldn't go after in a workplace.

That being said everyone is different. As with any fork in the road you should certainly think it completely through. Gather all the data and try to inform yourself about the journey ahead and what to expect. That and generally have a backup plan just in case.

 

Did you know that most devs in the game industry leave before 5 years? So, finish your degree. Then, you can enjoy a few years being part of the CRUSH your SOUL work cycle, and if you decide to leave, then you have your degree to fall back on. Either way, make sure your degree is useful, like computer science, engineering, or modeling.

Going it solo - as in Indie - is VERY risky!

Gigi

 

It's good that you don't do this with the fixed hope to become rich. Word says you just can't just do a tetris with a twist and become rich anymore... and you can't rely on being a statistical impossibility, like Notch, or Flappy Bird guy.

It's also good that you have a backup plan and a degree to fallback to.

I admit this is only couch potato advice, as I'm also only testing the waters. But I put all my faith in that if you really commit, learn to be better and more productive, you can absolutely make a living, and over time things can get better. I think it's a market that's going to stick around for a while, and has plenty of room to learn, expand and diversify, which is good.

 

If you are passionate about game development then you should definitely try to go full time with it. But not at the exclusion of first finishing your degree and getting a job that pays $$$.

Be smart about how to become a world famous game development tycoon... If you were playing an RTS would you start the game by building a titan weapon up front or would you invest in your economy even a little bit?

Create a foundation in your life... a sturdy thick slab on which to build whatever you want. Don't jam sticks in the ground and then wonder why you live in a stick and mud hut when you are 40 years old.

Anyway, that's all IMHO and all that. Plus that's two too many metaphors for a forum post... so back to work for me.

P.S.
My Career path for what it's worth: Physics/CompSci degrees -> Software Developer -> Director Engineering -> VP Engineering -> Indie Game Developer -> Dad. Spread across 2 start-ups, 2 public traded companies, and my own 'garage' company.

 

I ended up in business software development instead of game development mainly because that's where the jobs were. The more I watch the game industry, the happier I am to have landed here instead. I get better pay, work fewer hours, and have a lot less stress.

My advice is to make sure you're employable *anywhere* that programming is done, and not just the games industry. You can always work on games on the side.

 

Wanna see some realistic income reports? Check my blog.

Beside that, I agree you should finish your degree. Run your business beside your job in the beginning and see how it works for you.

 

Got to agree with @Gigiwoo here, the hours will get to you eventually. No matter how much you love something, there is only so much you can take. Nowadays as an Indie you need to be a jack of all trades and pretty good all round, so you need to know art / shaders / coding / marketing / collaboration / PR and design. Even in larger teams, you still need a pretty good grasp as a whole, in AAA you have a function a dedicated assignment. With Indie anything goes..

There will be parts that grate on you and all this to potentially earn nothing, people don't survive long due to this. BUT, not all doom and gloom, there are many pro's to it as well. Just don't quit your day job yet, whatever that will be ..

 

Thanks everyone for the support and responses
@greggtwep16 I'm not enjoying the work im currently doing, but I feel that has more to do with studying and not a commentay on how i will find working in industry.

@ShadowK and @Gigiwoo, I think you underestimate the hours put into an engineering degree, I have been pulling 2 to 3 all nighters a week for the past 3 months. I think that "Crush your SOUL" work cycle is why Im doubting my decisions to be in engineering. I do understand that game development will take an enormous amount of work, but is the work load comparable to my current work load?

@Xaron, Id love to check out your blog, could you post a link?

I see the general consensus seems to be that doing it part time is a good idea especially whilst starting my career, that is kind of what i was thinking, so thanks for the confirmation.

 

You're welcome. At the end of each semester, everything comes to an end. Pass or fail, you get your grade, take a break, and then, decide how next to proceed. The game industry is often grind, and grind, and grind, and then, pass or fail, you're likely to be laid off as a reward. Statistically speaking.

You can start developing games right now. Take one month, build a game, release it. See how hard it is to get downloads, then do it again. Do that for the next 2 years, while you finish school. And, if you don't like engineering, then go computer science - programming is fun and a VERY strong career choice.

Gigi

 

@Gigiwoo I just wanted to ask, if you dont mind, what your experience in the industry is? You seem to be talking about working at companies, do you have experience in small independent teams?
I ask to gauge what your comments is representative of.

 

I graduated college with a CS degree in '92. Spent most of my 22 years working with C++, and prefer C# and Java (for speed of development). I've got 11 years in the game industry (mostly training games). I've published articles in Game Engine Gems 2, Game Programming Gems 6 & 7, and 2 other textbooks. I've won 3 national awards for my games, articles, and speeches about game design. I was a Tech Lead at EA for a short bit and I've run my own Indie company for 3.5 years.

With that background, my advice is: 1) FINISH your degree; 2) build and release games in your spare time; and 3) Take the right path - 1 month projects vice 2 years toward a magnum opus.

Your mileage may vary.
Gigi

 

Definitely as soon as you are making enough money from it to make the switch.

 

If you live with parents you can take a year off to give indie dev a shot while you still can if you're young. But at the end of it you must be realistic: if you haven't achieved some success by then you probably do need to be in a paying job. A year at this is all anyone needs to really make the switch to professional indie. Otherwise it's pretty unrealistic without a paying job to back you up or funding.

I say it's probably better to take that year now (but be really serious about it, no mucking about) while the risk is still minimal and you are young.

Be smart about this. Use your loaf.

 

@Gigiwoo I still have thinking to do about my career prospects and whether engineering is for me, but thank you for you advice, ill take it under serious consideration.

 

What's a loaf? Shoes ... or bread ... Maybe it's a cross-pond meme .
Gigi

 

My dear husband is a mechanical engineer and he loves his job, most of the time. He programs our game on the weekends. It is a good job and helps us to send the kids to college. I echo the rest here. Get a job after school, get some experience, and then make choices later. Lots will change for you in the next 5-10 years! If you don't get a job right after school, you might have a tough time explaining that gap later.

Trust me, school is not like work. I worked as a geologist for an environmental firm and the hours didn't compare to the time I spent in graduate school studying and doing field work, etc. While I enjoyed college, work was much less stressful.

Wow, Gigiwoo! You are famous! I am impressed.

 

KEELAN: A massive part of being an indie developer is simply being able to stay on task and complete a project without the direction of an instructor or employer. If you have never completed a project on your own, then I'd say it is very risky for you to try to be an indie.

The best thing to do is try to build a simple project over the next 30 days in your spare time. The challenge is merely to see if you can complete something when you are completely in charge of it with nobody else to tell you what to do. If you can do it, then you might have a chance as an indie. If you cannot stay on track and complete it, then you are probably better off completing your degree and working for somebody else. Even if you end up working for somebody else, you can always develop games on the side (either as part time work or as a hobby).

As for your degree, remember that many employers won't hire people without a degree, even when the company was founded by a college drop out. If you are close to completing your degree, it would be smart to complete your degree even if you never intend to use your degree. Some day you may need that degree to satisfy a requirement when hunting for a job. For your long term economic safety, it would be best to have a degree.

Honestly, I have a good idea how much work engineering school is, or at least how much work it was years ago. But I'll still say working in the real world (either for yourself or somebody else) is more work than going to college. College is super easy by comparison.

 

I'm going to disagree with some of the advice here.

Firstly as you said you would and as most have mentioned finish your degree.

But if you are passionate about indie games development I would suggest taking a year or so and giving it a shot. You will need discipline and it will be a long road but I think its worth doing.

If games development is not working out your engineering career may still be a enjoyable and profitable one, and taking a year off is only a small blip on the radar. Its unlikely to have any marked effect, particularly given you are in the higher percentile of your class and you took the time off to explore a business opportunity*.

Your likely at a stage of life where your expenses are pretty low, and where you have a good chance of being able to dedicate yourself to your games for quite some time. It's going to look worse on a resume if you leave a job after 6-12 months, and its going to be a lot harder to quit 5 years down the track once you are used to having more money (and have more financial commitments).

- - - - -
* Verify this for your location and industry.

EDIT: ... just realised I could have just written +1 to what @hippocoder said. He said it better and more succinctly.

 

One year isn't long. As people say, finishing is a feature so finish your degree. There are a lot of really cool things that you can do with a mech eng degree. Biomedical engineering has some really cool and interesting stuff. You might even be able to find a way to somewhat merge your game design with engineering. For instance, if you wanted to do a sim racing game, your engineering background would be huge.

 

Sure, it's in my signature below.

 

^Pretty much this.
ALWAYS have a backup plan. Who knows how the industry will look in a few years.

 

I would start with making sure above all else that I graduated.
Chances are small that you get into the big industry where the pay is decent and even smaller that you stay there for the rest of your life.

You can during this time try to complete one or more projects. Lean back and honestly ask yourself if you got the necessary talent to make a living from this? That is the indie path that you just answered... Being an indie is similar to being an artist, you have to create something that is so interesting that it attracts people. You can work together with other people but that instantly makes everything more complicated... salaries? creative control? management? what will you do if the teams creative person suddenly leaves?

The other option is to aim for an established company but the most difficult part is to get your foot in through the door. The biggest/most famous companies get contacted all the time by people that are interested in working for them. Do you got a skill that they could benefit from? Something that you are so good at that you can confidently brag and back it up in a room with super talents that got years of hard earned experience? Or do you have a growing talent that you can show to get their interest?
Many companies send you written tests if they are still curious after reading your resume (this is is a good place to show finished projects). You will be invited to a grueling interview if you pass the tests where lead or senior developers from different departments pick you apart. You might get a shot at a time limited employment if you survive the interview and be prepared to get judged, some companies can be pretty harsh.

Do you know what kind of programmer you want to become in the games industry? Your area of specialization? AI, mechanics, graphics, physics, optimization, servers and clients, networking?

Which part of the world do you live in? The industry changes a lot depending on where you live. Are you prepared to move if offered a job? Even to the opposite side of the world?

How good are you at handling stress? How do you react when you disagree with people? Communication skills? Social skills?

The easiest path if you got the time and energy for it is to pick up a normal job and develop games during evenings and weekends, then sell them as a indie. Your job makes you independent, income from games are a bonus. The only thing that might suffer is your social life but be prepared that this can suffer from any of the other paths as well...

 

As an engineer who does game development as a hobby. I would strongly encourage you to finish your degree and get into the real workforce first before going into indie dev as a full time profession. You may really enjoy engineering or whatever job you get. I'm finding that game development is something you can do part time and still be reasonable productive. I'm about to produce my second, high quality game this year and I've done it by myself just with help from the asset store. I've done that while working a full time job that pays the bills. I would strongly encourage you to build a financial foundation first with your engineering career before jumping into game development full time.

 

That is terrible advice. His mechanical engineering degree will be considered useless after spending five years of work outside of the industry, especially right after graduation, and he'll be able to fall back on nothing. Employers will see that he will have no mechanical engineering work experience and will not consider him for such job positions. Go look on career forums and see the first hand accounts of people in that same position.

The best thing to do is finish your engineering degree, get hired in your field of study, work there for several years, play around with programming/etc on the side and in your spare time, actually finish several projects with at least a few big ones, then decide if its the right path for you. If it is, devise a plan on how you will transition to it, taking into account all the ups and downs of doing so.

 

I agree. I have seen so many people do this, especially women. You need to have some job experience right after school in your field of study. If you take a break later, it won't be as harmful. Working as an engineer is very different from studying as an engineer. Give it a chance.

It is very difficult to make a living as an indie game developer. If you had years of experience already in the game development field it might not be so bad. But there are a lot of hobbyists turned developer and the competition is fierce. Do some research. Most indie gamers don't make enough money to pay the bills.

Bet your mom would say the same thing. Of course, I told my daughter not get that huge tattoo on her neck and now she tells me it was the biggest mistake she ever made. So...no matter what we say, you know what you are going to do.

 

Why finish the engineering degree? If he hates it, he might consider swapping to programming. Just 2 years in, most of his credits would transfer (core credits, plus english, science, math, and basic programming). Computer Science is fun, has direct paths into the game industry, and pays well, no matter where he ends up. There's also a shortage of developers, in almost every country on earth. Maybe I should have said, 'A degree' ... or ANY degree, as long as it's useful (i.e. programming, science, modeling, ...).

Gigi

 

I am finishing my master's degree in Games Technology now.
Before deciding to go that route i actually did almost a years free work (working a couple of hours each week) for a smaller games company to get a feel for the industry (indie productions). It gave me a great idea of how it works, something school will never learn you. Also gave me some experience and a game on my CV. It is a lot different from working on your own hobby projects, so if possible you could maybe try it out while still in school.

 

This is an excellent idea, if he can afford it. Financial aid puts limits on the number of credits you can have so not everyone can start over so close to the end of the road. Sad but unfortunately true in today's world.

You can have 150% of the credits required for a degree and still get Financial aid. So he can look at what he needs for a CS degree and see if he would go over unless he can pay out of pocket.

I have another question guys, sort of off topic, but not entirely. Can one get a job in game development with an IT software development bachelors degree? My son is transferring with his AA to a university but doesn't have the math/physics required for CS degree. We found an excellent program that provides software development experience with some business applications, but he wants to make games. He is a gifted programmer according to me...and his current professors. 4.0 GPA but not really wanting to spend the extra time to get the CS degree. At 24, he is eager to get out of school and will already need at least 2 years, maybe more since he has additional Gen Ed requirements at the BS level. Should I make another post for this? Sorry if I seem to be hi-jacking but it isn't totally unrelated.

For the OP, a CS degree might be well within reach since the physics and all that math is already under his belt.

 

In Denmark education are free, you even get a monthly fee (low fee!) while enrolled at a University. Just saying

 

Yeah, wish they would hire my husband. We have paid money into a prepaid state account only to realize the state tacked on fees that are not covered by our prepaid (on purpose) so now we have to come up with a huge chunk of money for two kids we thought were already set. Sad when a low level university charges $12k a year for college.

Does Keelan live in Denmark? In my very American way, I assumed he was from the states. Sorry about that. I will try to do better.

If he lives somewhere outside of the US, I highly recommend he switch to CS. It would be fun for him since he would only need those major classes.

 

Is he serious about it? If he is, then he should start building games, today! With or without a degree, his best ticket into the industry is a portfolio, and the best way to get a portfolio is to finish a game, by himself, every 1-3 months. Invest EVERY SPARE hour doing that, instead of gaming, watching TV, or hanging with friends. Never mind that his friends are going out - they're not the ones trying to break into the hardest industry in the world.

Tell him not to worry that his first is crap, or the second, or the third. Because what's happening is that over time, he'll have 2 games, then 4, then 6, and before he's done, he has a serious portfolio. His skills will have dramatically improved, and one day, he realizes, he's not just a 'wanna be', he's already talking the talk and walking the walk.

PS - I recommend avoiding 'team' development. They rarely finish products, take much longer to get anywhere, and in the eventual interview he won't be able to say, "Yes, I built that and that, and that, by myself, in my spare time, while earning my degree. I chose simple projects so I could devote myself to the art and science of game development. I've had a taste, and I'm ready to learn more!"

Good luck,
Gigi

 

Yeah, he is working for us! And doing a lot of cool stuff. He is also making his own game on the side and has a full design worked out for another game that we have promised to help him develop when our game is done. So yeah, I think he is serious. He basically spends most of his time on college classes and on Unity and limits his gaming to 1 hour a day which is pretty amazing to me. We occasionally drag him outside...

Great advice and I will pass that along to him. Thanks! Good advice for anyone!

 

Hey all
To clarify one point, I said I haven't finished a project yet, however that is purely due to not actually attempting too. Doing it as a hobby, I wasn't too concerned with finishing anything as it was the process that I enjoyed.
Luckily we have our summer holiday coming up in December, and I will definitely take the advice everyone has given in actually completing something, and baring my internship will be able to do that relatively full time and see how that goes.

@Teila I live in South Africa, not the states but before I had all these doubts I was planning on going to do my post graduate studies in Europe (hopefully under scholarship )

I agree with the advice to at least work for a couple years as an engineer to solidify the career path, just the safer bet really regardless of whether engineering is for me or not. This has helped a lot and as I have said before, thanks everyone for the advice and support.

Will hopefully be posting to showcase end of the year
Cheers

 

Hey all,
Dont know if anyone would see this now. I finished class Friday (exams are soon) and I decided due to all the advice I got here to make something, so I gave myself one day. Its currently about an hour over a day but I finished something. Here is a link:
https://googledrive.com/host/0ByZUW59xuFRaUEFCMGVieEhBUm8/Arc Length Test Build.html

Was a lot of fun, very hacky in some ways but I am pleased with it thanks again
Cheers

 

I just saw that left click brings up an annoying options panel in web builds, I will swop this for space.

 

That has some neat gameplay. Cool.

BTW, I think right click (not left click) is the problem in the web player.

 

Small and steady wins the race. That's how it goes right?

Well avoid doing a me, as a prime example of someone who takes on more than they can chew, gradually, I am learning. However, taking on something that is more than you can chew and then being able to admit defeat and come straight back into programming is a virtue, whereas when something may not work for someone, they may have a lengthy break form programming.

 

Hmmm, as a mechanical engineer you have training in methods and processes that you could translate to create original games that are interesting in your spare time and earn a very nice salary and benefits; besides which, since when can people that aren't independently wealthy choose whether or not to work? To graduate college to go take some improbable gamble that yet another game so much like the other games already out gets you an early retirement in 2 - 3 years is rather hopeful. You have better odds with the Pick 6. Now if you're independently wealthy or your parents would support you indefinitely as you essentially decided not to work for a living; well go for it. If you are independently wealthy you should do which you enjoy better. Don't forget you'll get to meet very nice people in person as part of a job as a civil engineer as well as contribute to safety in a very important way. It's not so with the writing games hoping to be the next id Software or something along those lines.

 

Thanks
And yes, right click haha. Guess posting at 1AM isn't a good idea

 

@KEELAN - You did that in one day? That's quite good for your first project! The concept is solid - like spider-man, meets Tiny Wings. Congratulations!!! You are now a game developer.

And as a game developer, you've now begun the cycle of improving your work and looking for players. So, here's some thoughts you might consider adding:

• Remove the right click feature - left click to shoot your web is sufficient (maybe do things like have the string automatically cut when the block it's attached to goes off the left side).
• With the right-click gone, you can now convert this to a one-tap mobile game .
• Give the player a goal - "DON'T GET SQUASHED" ... or something.
• Remove the tutorial text. With one-click, the game is pretty clear.
• Add some juice
• Add sound (explore freesound.org)
• Add music (try incompetech.com or danosongs.com)
• Consider speeding up the swing pull-rate based on distance or something (it seems too sluggish)

And the number one thing? Playtest! Grab 2-3 friends and say this, "Will you play test my game? I need to watch people playing as if I wasn't here. Please don't ask me any questions or say anything. You don't have to like or dislike it, I just need to watch you play." Give no excuses, apologies, explanations, or instructions. Look for where they struggle, where they mess up, when they stare blankly at the screen. Then fix what's not working, and do it again.

PS - There's research indicating you only need 5 testers to find 80-90% of the defects. For a bullet-prototype, you only need 2-3.

Gigi

 

@Gigiwoo
Thanks for the great feedback and advice. The fact that I did it in a day would be a lot less impressive if you could see the hacky code I wrote I have to obviously focus on exams now but when they are done I will look at making some changes. I do agree with the control scheme and I am talking to a musician friend to hopefully get some original music in it.

Cheers

 

While I'm sure he is grateful for the advice.... You necroed a 6-year-old thread...

 

You're talking to a spambot. The only reason why he posted that respons is the small blue link within the text.

 

My bad. Well that was fun