Sexism in the Spotlight

So I think this is a good barometer for where the gaming community is right now with sexism:


That would be a meme off of Cheezburger criticizing Polygon for their recent review of Bayonetta 2.

There has of course been more on sexism recently with "Gamergate" and Polygon's review of Dragon's Crown.

The point is that sexism is absolutely in the spotlight right now and I just wanted to know what everyone's thought are on it.

Me personally, I could care less about "Gamergate" since I'm already skeptical of the media and very little would change if this trumped up "story" had even an ounce of truth in it.

As far as Polygon goes, I agree that the over sexualization is getting to be a little much. However, I also think that it is unfair for them to rate games outside of what they are.

Bayonetta and Dragon's Crown are games based around hypersexualization. While I have not played them based on this, I do not think it's fair to rate the game poorly because you disagree with the sexualization.

That would be like if someone gave Pulp Fiction a poor review because they don't like violence. Violence is a big part of that movie and you have to have an appreciation for it in order to review it as what it is.

On the flip side, yeah. Hypersexualization is getting to be the new CoD. Enough already, could we you please something new?

Agree? Disagree?

Any thoughts on why sexism is such a hot issue right now?

Any opinions?

 

I always thought sexism was a hot issue in general.

Honestly, either way developers go with things, they will get the "They are oversexualized" or the "They aren't a sexy enough character" when it comes down to differing opinions. Couple this with the differing a opinions between people of "There aren't enough women in videogames" and then against "Women in videogames are oversexualized".

In the modern day, everything has to be politically correct, this is NOT saying in any way shape or form that I agree with gamergate or any sexist views, but it seems almost EVERYTHING these days upsets someone. In the age of social media, people, I think out of bordem, just need to complain about something. If something is found offensive by a small few, they will voice their opinion to the masses who disagree and visa verse.... In the end there isn't really much point.

For example, remember the kick up a stink over Mass Effect 1's sex scenes? :

That said, in my opinion, that game looks absolutely ridiculous.

At the end of the day, people are always going to have something to complain about.

 

Very true. I often think of how soft and delicate people have become. They need to get a thicker skin so to speak. Have some grit. These days everyone is a victim. Someone always being offended by something. Some flip out. Crack. Start killing people. Craziness.

 

/off topic semi-rant

Sure, one can argue that it is indeed creating poor influence and objectification. However, the same can go in reverse.
How come the hero guys always have six packs, and look like they just came out of a production studio makeup session 24/7? Then the bad guy is some pot belly, hairy, older man?

If you're going to go against such thing, do it fairly and evenly. I don't like it either. But I sure as hell won't only fight against it in one gender. It's a big problem for both. Stop screaming sexism, it only makes the divide larger and enhances the "man vs female" ideal. The one that you are fighting against right?

Sexual objectification of humans go two ways. To say only men objectify women is bigotry and stupid. So stop trying to play the "poor little girl" card. We are all equal, time to treat yourself as such if you expect others to treat you the same.

Ps, this is in no way pointed at any one or anybody. This is pointed at a small, but very vocal minority. Please don't take it as generalization of females as it is not meant to be such. In no way do the majority of females represent themselves as described above.

 

Game looks mad fun to me. I'm not interested in people bitching about it. They should probably bitch about half the human race near the cost in the summer time instead. Maybe they don't bitch about people on beaches, because in summer instead of going to the beach they lurk in some sort of basement.

 

I find it interesting that someone so immersed in the 3D industry would see things this way.
If a game evokes real emotion, real intellectual stimulation and real physical responses, doesn't this indicate that it is in fact coming from a real world?
Are people who play virtual games of war actually 'at war'? Those who play virtual games of love actually 'loving'?
Physical worlds are a collection of molecules, virtual worlds are a collection data, is there a distinction?
I suggest that 'all worlds' are a product of mind.

 

@landon91235 - I understand what you are getting at and agree... so women are often idealized and show skin? The same often happens to men as well. There are stereotypes and all kinds of stuff happening all over the place but as @Aurore points out in a nice way: "I'm getting a little tired of the over sexualisation arguments, games are a fantasy to me, a world I can escape to that's not remotely similar to anything around me".

So many men and women look like they spend most of their days at a gym? And show less skin then I can see on the beach? Who cares...?
On the other hand, it gets really silly when you find games where men wear really practical, full covering armor, specialized for the situation and women runs around in armor that doesn't cover more then a bikini... It isn't enough for me to go rampant but I can't help loosing a bit respect for the developers and publishers behind the game. Its like putting a stamp on the game saying "this game was made by hormone steaming teenagers" or "we wish that we worked in a different industry".
It becomes a stylistic choice when both men and women wear the same amount of armor or when there is a "logical" explanation for the difference in the game world.

I haven't played Bayonetta myself but it is obviously very stylized in some ways and a friend told me after he played the first game that the clothes / armor that the main character wears is actually her hair That makes some scenes I have seen a bit reasonable... otherwise... all I have heard about the first game is how both men and women loved it.

The Gamergate and attacks on people within the games industry is a completely different topic. That isn't about over-sexualized characters anymore, it isn't even a discussion any more. Normal people would explain their own opinion and why the other person is wrong when someone says something that they disagree with. They don't run off making death threats and threaten with other criminal acts... law enforcement agencies has gotten involved and I got a feeling that we will not hear the end of this until the identities behind some internet personas are brought to light and thereafter to court.

The only good thing that might come out of this sad and stupid situation is that internet bullying and threats might be taken a bit more seriously in the future.

 

I think you mean FOR hormone steaming teenagers

 

The game looks good. So Bayonetta 2 didn't sell very well AFIK, now rather than the feminists saying oh Bayonetta 2 is sexist you got to change it , the developers that made the game should say -- oh i game didnt sell very well -- maybe we should try to make the game more appealing to females as well so we can sell more units.

http://kotaku.com/bayonetta-2s-sales-are-depressing-1638976847

 

They know why it didn't sell well.
Wii U exclusive.

 

ZombieU made me think of getting one, I thought they had moved into a more mature console, but alas... I didn't see much more.

 

I hope this game lives up to the original.

As far as characters, I agree - it's fantasy. As a caveat, I feel that there should be more even distribution in sexualized characters (there are some male characters sexualized for the female audience, for instance Kaim Argonar in Lost Odyssey, in his backless armor)...or, whatever a lady gamer actually wants in their games.

Just because a character is male, doesn't mean we can't be sexy too!

 

Yeah, what about this guy from Conker's Bad Fur Day!



Sexy.

 

Agree with pretty much everything you said 100%

I find it interesting that often times the people arguing for inclusion, often times will try to silence others/media that they disagree with. The whole point of inclusion is that everyone should be free to be who they are if they pose no harm to others. Bayonetta is no worse than Romance novels depicting hunky lumberjacks with perfectly crafted shirtless men on the covers of them. How often do people complain about those? Or even the ridiculous body shape of every single male hero out there? All slim, no fat, men of action, etc.

Its a fantasy world. Why deprive people of the escapism? To fit a social agenda?

To me, the beauty of games has always been about escaping to a world where RL crap doesn't follow. I don't need to question why I'm stomping on giant mushroom men in Mario, I just do it, and they make a funny noise.

I fear that game developers will take this whole thing and become afraid of making games that are just games. You can have "art games". They're not my thing, but I'm not going to go out of my way and try to tell people to stop making them. Why can't people feel the same about games that are just about having fun?

 

I hope developers don't stop making games for the sake of games just because a portion of the population is insulted by the sex appeal found in games. Personally I find that these type of people who are so insulted by the sex appeal found in games such as Bayonetta are hypocrites as they don't apply the same energy to hating other forms of media. A lot of billboards, magazines, & tv commercials are designed to body shame people into buying their products with skinny well tone models yet rarely do people freak out about it. People seem to rarely condemn books either but are quick to jump to hating a video game based on the art even though most video games are just interactive visual stories.

As a female gamer, I liked the first Bayonetta game. I found her personality matched her character design perfectly and because of that I cracked up so hard at certain moments in the game. I can see other women getting insulted by her odd proportions and personality though.

 

Reviews are just somebody's opinion, why do we have to pretend that they're performing some sort of sterile scientific analysis? If anything, I'd rather have a reviewer be upfront about some bias they have. I'd also like to see scores dropped from reviews altogether. They are pretty meaningless IMO.

As for sexism...all media is going to have content that people find objectionable. If you don't like it, don't buy or play it. Don't support it. It's your choice. And I'm not trying to be totally dismissive when I say that. There are many things about the current state of mainstream American culture that I find distasteful, so I take my own advice in that regard.

 

Newsflash: Human beings enjoy sex!

I really don't understand the uproar over all this... our entire culture is becoming increasingly hyper-sexualized across all forms of media. Why should video games be somehow held to an artificial standard?

It's pretty obvious to anyone that pays attention to game review websites that Polygon is seriously "biased" when it comes to the current round of feminist-based issues. I don't see anything wrong with that either. I'm sure we would all be better served if the rest of the journalistic world was less falsely "unbiased and balanced" and more people actually took an open moral opinion in their reporting. That doesn't mean you have to agree with what someone says.

This game was made because there is a cultural demand for it.. plain and simple. Pretending that the content is somehow reprehensible in this modern "enlightened" age is just ignoring the fact that sex is a popular and important part of both our culture and our shared experience as human beings.

Now, I'm going to go fry up some bacon for lunch. I hope noone is offended by my culinary indulgences.

 

Have you played either game? I haven't, but everything seems to point to the hypersexualization ending the moment you stop paying attention to the bouncing breasts (a difficult matter I'm sure).

I'm just hoping you haven't fallen into a trap, in the process of a knee jerk reaction, of writing off the characters as sex objects. The irony is most of the people who complain about characters being sex objects are also the ones most likely to objectify and write off characters as sex objects.

 

What's wrong with sex objects?

Mmmmmh, this bacon is delicious.

 

The problem is, that this merely limits the debate to what is being created, not who and how. In the STEM fields, women are seriously underrepresented and underpaid compared to their male counterparts. The underpaid part is perhaps the easiest bit to fix. The underrepresented part is a little dicier due to societal standards - hitherto, women have been discouraged from getting into, well, STEM fields.

However - well, just see what @hippocoder said about being civil to everyone, and making sure that when you say you pay X for a given position, that everyone in that position starts at X. And, don't give bad behavior a pulpit. Relatively simple.

OMG. Call Congress. That's just wr...wait, is that a BLT?

 

I find it amazing how many people think it's a bad thing to have a conversation about the fact that many of our beloved games are actually kind of messed up in their treatment and presentation of women. That doesn't mean we should suddenly hate the game, or censor them, even though some people instantly act as if that's what the result of acknowledging the imperfections in games will be. It just means that maybe, just maybe, rather than burying our heads in the sand and pretending these problems don't exist, we as gamers and developers consider that it wouldn't be a bad thing if games started featuring strong, three dimensional female characters that wear more than bikinis and don't exist just to get raped, slaughtered, or rescued. If not all three.

It doesn't hurt to reexamine the ways females have been used in games in the past, or to consider that maybe rather than pretending we're at the height of civilized behavior we could maybe do a little better. That doesn't mean that we have to ban games that don't meet some feminazi code of female characterization, just that we think about these things.

I guarantee that if asked if black people should be presented in most games eating fried chicken and watermelon, the huge majority of you would say no, but women in chainmail bikinis? Don't take our women in chainmail bikinis!

 

Beyonetta is a good game, a GREAT game!! I am happy to see someone other than bulky, white guy #12439318238 in a game. Beyonetta has a personality that I can't say for most male protags in games.

Also, being that she's a woman, she can accentuate herself in a way a male protag can't, without being seen as gay.

The real question is, how did Sega lose the rights to THIS?!!

 

Except this is false, because people *do* chase down and interrogate developers who for some reason decide their main character should be male. See Assassin's Creed Unity debacle where media was giving devs endless grief for not daring to make their character a female.

I don't think anyone is against strong female lead characters. Last Of Us did an excellent job of providing all kinds of characters that were great, how many people complained the women were too bad ass or too clothed? Everyone I know *loved* the strong women in that game. There were no gamer boycotts. If gamers were truly in opposition of character diversity as a group, you would have seen some sort of huge outrage about it. There wasn't.

Developers have the right to choose what character they want to represent in their games. Just like an artist gets to decide they want to fill and endless sea of canvases full of vagina paintings.

If you want to make games feature a wider variety of characters, the answer isn't forcing existing developers to make things they don't care about. The answer is to make sure that everyone has the tools to make the games they want, whether you are a woman, trans, black, white, or purple, regardless of culture.

It is much easier to point at something and scream about how outraged you are. It is far harder to provide a constructive solution. I think now, more than ever, people have all the tools they could need to make the game they want.

When I was young, I didn't have internet. I had no resources, no libraries, no nothing to further my love for development. I taught myself to program from an early age and then made a career of it and went to college for it. This is coming from a minority who grew up in South America and then migrated to the US, so I know a thing or two about this stuff.

Fact of the matter is, the reason STEM has less women is not because there's some gatekeeper keeping women out. It's a cultural issue, women just don't seem to *want* or even *think about* becoming engineers. In my school, women in STEM were given FULL SCHOLARSHIPS. Jobs in tech will often times also favor hiring women for diversity reasons. There are plenty of incentives for women to enter STEM, the problem is that women for whatever reason, do not choose to do it for the most part.

This could be due to traditional gender roles. It could be the culture. It is not gaming, gaming is just another symptom of a greater problem in society. If you truly want more inclusive games, make it happen, don't just complain. We don't get to just complain anymore, not in this age of information.

So honestly, if there are any women reading this, and you want to get into games and don't know where to start. PM me, I will give you any resources I can to help. Whether it's programming, art, animation, sound, story, whatever. I want you to make the games you want to make, I'd like to help. And if I can't help, I'm sure there are tons of people here who can.

 

Erotica is inherently playful, seems pretty obvious to me it would figure prominently in games.
Also seems pretty obvious to me that the puritans would hate it.

 

Except it's not false, because I said nothing about doing anything like that? I don't see how the actions of people who share remotely similar ways of looking at the issue with me invalidate anything I'm saying. And I'm not saying anything about crying out in outrage.

Neither is the problem invalidated by a few games that present women as a little more than boobs attached to a seduction sideplot.

I'm not saying anything except that people should take a moment and honestly ask themselves if women are typically treated in a stereotypical manner, and if the answer is yes, then maybe it's time to freshen things up and do them different for a bit. Gamers make games, and so how gamers view the games matters, so if people change their beliefs over time the games will change, and maybe it could change the real world a bit, too.

 

I feel kind of aghast when I see resistance to social criticism among gamers and developers, as if games were less a cultural product than anything else. There is an insidious cake-and-eat-it-too mentality to the insistence that "games are art" yet simultaneously not responsible for their cultural influence because they're "just escapism." Can't one criticize demeaning gender roles in film, or distinguish between prurient pictures and artistic nudity? Then one should be able to do the same for games. Sheesh!

Whether or not Bayonetta is fun isn't really at issue, except that it's a trojan horse for pernicious values. The issue is that the game idealizes a certain image of femininity that reinforces unhealthy aspects of how society sees women: that women's sex appeal = their source of power over others. This power only exists where there are men to give it to them, and in many cases it is the only kind of power women are freely permitted—certainly not intellectual power, decision-making power, or powers of logic and deduction. When women (like those in the current media storm) become powerful in other ways, the reaction is an astonishing chorus shouting "get back in line", or they are forced to deemphasize their femininity in order to keep it.

The ridiculousness of Bayonetta is often used as an excuse. Maybe it's a parody of the phenomenon. I don't buy it, because the game has no criticism of its own to offer in the process. Bayonetta may have expertly crafted systems and be a technical masterpiece, but it is still a text that is cynical and exploitative of female sexuality for capital gain. Yech.

 

Trying to find faults in games made decades ago, where we *know* culture was already skewed towards sexism/racism does not help us create more inclusive gaming in any way. It's just a way for people to feel validated about how great they are for not being "as bad" as people back in the day.

I'd argue that there are tons of games to cater to all kinds of demographics and cultures, race, or gender. And things are only getting better and better in that regard.

Mainstream games and media will always represent whatever mainstream people want to buy. You can't complain about COD bro games not having enough strong women, but then turn a blind eye to all the other media pumping out the same content right next to them.

Take a look at blockbuster films and music. What do you see? These industries have been around for longer than gaming, yet suffer the same pains. These pains are societal, not somehow ingrained within gaming alone. Like I said, symptom of a greater problem.

Cure the disease, don't just treat the symptoms.

There is sex positive feminism. I suggest you have a look at it before condemning Bayonetta.

Lots of games also exploit men in a similar way, we're just used to it. People laugh when a male character does a pelvic thrust as they fire a bazooka. Or when a man gets shot in the crotch and keels over in pain.

We can't just look at things in one way. It is pervasive, and it is fixable, but not by looking at the straw in someone's eye when we're all face-deep in a pile of hay.

 

Anything with Conan in it. Conan likes to win through everything wearing just his nipples and a rag over his bits. I don't enjoy Conan less for it

 

I don't get things like this. If a scantily clad bouncy girl offends a person then don't play the game. If you are only playing the games becsuse you want to see scantily clad bouncy game characters you probably have a problem. I see it the same as people throwing a fit about certain tv shows or movies. Common sense should tell them to not watch it. Seems to be a case of the more time passes the less common sense is being used and the less personal responsibility people want to take.

 

It's mostly insecure people (men and women) who object so strongly to lack of clothing. It's not really a problem to present a character wearing sexy clothing. It's done in all forms of media to make the character an icon of attraction for anyone (I pause to say men because Aurore isn't the only woman enjoying strong sexy female characters, plus you have the whole LGBT crowd mixing things up too!).

So in my view it's actually ok to have a hyper-sexualised male or female if it suits the outrageous nature of the entertainment.

I don't think it's even a feminism or sexism issue really since it also affects men and I'm not sure many lesbian women would object outraged at the thought of a hot sexy female hero. It's only natural after all to be attracted to whom you like. And enjoying that in a made-up game is fine as far as I am concerned and not harming anyone.

I think it's healthy for any gender and any sexuality to not be offended by any gender and any sexuality showing a bit of flesh. It's after all not even naked, but just showing a bit more.

At least I don't feel harmed by the thought of my semi naked muscle god with phallic sword rushing around slaying other semi naked muscle gods with swords.

 

What about a hammer? I'm straight, but Chris Hemsworth as Thor? I would consider letting him harm me.

 

Why don't you tell Mari Shimazaki how you really feel about her work? I am sure she is super curious to hear how sexist and dangerous a white western man thinks her work is.

It's pretty shocking that the Japanese would dare have a different view of human sexuality than the self appointed moral guardians in western academia, but I guess we'll just to make do in this global information age.

/sarc off

 

Isn't that both ad hominem and a strawman? By saying that those who take issue with Bayonetta's sexism are insecure, aren't you trying to invalidate their point by attacking their character? Likewise, is anyone here objecting "to lack of clothing"? Or is that just a strawman for objections to sexism?

Isn't that the bandwagon fallacy?

Is not a game that outrages people outrageous? Isn't that a tautology that actually vindicates all games of their social responsibility?

Doesn't feminism and sexism also have to do with what affects men or lesbian women? I feel like this is a common misconception.

But we like what we like in large part because of a social standard of idealized beauty. So am I wrong to translate "it's only natural" as "this is the way most people think, so it's okay"?

Does being made-up make it any less relevant? Doesn't this mean that made-up stories on film, in literature, made-up scenes in visual art, musical lyrics, etc. are all not culpable for the effect they have and what they represent about our culture?

This is just as pernicious a stereotype for men as for women, surely? You've claimed to be immune to media influence, but how can you not associate masculine power with muscles, the phallus, and weapons / violence in that example? And as soon as one makes the association, one is influenced. I feel it's like saying that one can smell cigarette smoke, but not be affected by it.

This argument is always disappointing. So those who object to ideas should ignore them?

Does it have to be either / or?

I agree absolutely. However, looking at the symptoms can help identify the problem, don't you think? I'm not calling for any specific action against Bayonetta the game, but I do think it's worth pointing out that it is not exempt from both perpetuating and being perpetuated by sexism.

I agree that we can't look at things in one way. However, one straw at a time, eh! Masculinity is also really problematic in video games, as per your bazooka / thrusting analogy.

There are many different perspectives that identify themselves as feminist, and I don't know any that object to representing sexuality. I've seen Bayonetta described as sexually empowering. However, I think that's a pretty convenient excuse. I'm not arguing that Bayonetta represents women as literally weak. I'm arguing that the type of feminine power it idealizes is sexual attractiveness, and doing so is disempowering. Beauty as power is a trap because it's a power granted by others, typically males.

 

What I wouldn't give to see people grow up. There is nothing wrong with seeing the cock not crowing, in fact it might even be healthier.

I'm noticing I'm criticizing character design more and thinking "it would have been fine if she had nipples. It's not like she isn't a spider from the hips down."

 

It is only disappointing for the people who wanted agreement with their opinion. They don't need to ignore what they don't like... it is a choice for themselves of what THEY want to play or watch. However, they also don't need to scream and throw a fit trying to blacklist things so nobody can play or watch just because they have an issue with it.

 

I'm confused why you feel the creator is immune to criticism from a white western man?

Are you saying that sexism is not a problem in Japanese culture?

Hopefully we can at least agree that red herrings are worth avoiding!

I may be blowing a lot of hot air, but I don't think I'm screaming or throwing a fit. The idea that anybody here wants to blacklist Bayonetta "so nobody can play or watch" is hyperbole.

 

I beg to differ.

 

I wasn't actually talking specifically to you... I mean directing it at you. Just the general idea. I guarantee there are people (maybe some right here) who absolutely want to blacklist stuff so it ia just wiped out and gone. It is not enough for them to simply not watch or play the things they find offensive. If it was they would simply not watch or play and that would be the end of it. What more is needed? The only reason to hold demonstrations and give speeches is to convince enough people to support the "war" against said games or movies.

 

I think everyone already knows the problem. I do take issue with people constantly poking at the issue and going "see! see! I told you there's sexism in games!" The issue has already been identified, in much of media. That's the easy part. Here's the part most outspoken social activists avoid though: What's the solution? I proposed a bunch of solutions, how many people, like Anita Sarkeesian, do you see offering anything of the sort? All they do is stir the hornets nest, make money off it, then leave people to fight among themselves.

Problems are easy to find. Find the solutions and spread that, not this philosophy of hate I see spouted all over Twitter atm.

Bayonetta is far ore than just looks. She literally kicks ass. As in, she's physically strong, has a bunch of guns, and can handle them really well. She's secure and comfortable with herself. I'd say she's a great example of a powerful feminine character. Just because she doesn't adhere to your personal standards of how a woman *should* act does not make her acts any more or less sexist. That's you applying your own filter for how a "proper" woman should act.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but that goes against the whole thing with inclusiveness. Equality means people get to be people, regardless of how you feel about them. That means being able to freely be as sexual as they want, as conservative, as happy or glum, clothed or not clothed.

I'm perfectly ok with that. But it appears that perhaps it makes you uncomfortable. That's totally ok, but I think you may be letting the media influence you too much in your perception of what is ok and what is not.

 

Oh you can criticize it all you want. I am just going to make fun of white man's burden 2.0. Fact is an accomplished Japanese woman has designed an amazing game character with global appeal and the western puritans have a problem with that. Why do you have such a problem with Japanese women being successful in the gaming industry?

If it is it's a problem that is for the Japanese to decide and it's for the Japanese to address. Nobody else. They've had enough western meddling in their county.

Nah you just want the fan flames of moral panic and xenophobia.

 

She even has a sister who won't be trying to immolate you on sight, in case she's too hot for you.

 

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

Says it all. Will knock many arguments here to shreds.

 

You are allowed to like sexual objectification, you are allowed to give a game a 10/10 just because you like the boobs, you are allowed to watch as much porn as you want, you are allowed to make a game entirely about beating women until they have sex with you, you are allowed to do whatever you want as long as you are willing to deal with the consequences. All that said, everyone is also allowed to have their own opinion on whatever it is you did, they are allowed to disagree with you, they are allowed to call you out when you're acting like an ass, they are allowed to point out where you are reinforcing negative stereotypes, they are allowed to call you words you don't like such as "misogynist", they are allowed to make a game entirely about beating stubborn self-involved male game developers until they figure out that they're being hypocrites, they are allowed to do whatever they want as long as they are willing to deal with the consequences.

Polygon is allowed to dislike a game because of its extreme sexual objectification. It doesn't matter if "that's the joke", or "it's ok because some girls like it" , or "waaaah politicians are somehow magically controlling what i say in a way i can't possibly explain". You can't pretend that you want "unbiased" reviews of a game while trying to argue that anyone who doesn't share your opinions needs to be tossed out of journalism, or that they are just "bitching", or that they don't know what they're talking about, and you certainly can't launch campaigns of violence and terrorism against them. Those are the exact opposite of "unbiased" journalism. What you guys apparently want are only reviews that tell you exactly what you already think, and that any other opinions should be silenced, and that's just a wee bit hypocritical.

Also, again, I have to strongly disagree with anyone saying that hippo represents the "balanced" approach here and that he's "being respectful". He is again saying that anyone who doesn't like Bayonetta 2 is a basement-lurking bitch, an insecure prude, unhealthy and insane, and that they are objectively "wrong" and he is "right". That is not balanced; it is not respectful, so stop pretending like it is.

 

What is this?

Does objecting to sexism make one a Puritan?

I hope that's not what people feel I'm arguing.

Okay, but what about the many westerners who play the game? Or those of us who are interested in its effects? In social circumstances? We don't get to point them out? I feel like you are putting a really weird racial angle on this.

 

It's a sad day when someone thinks the only reason one might speak is to start a war.

 

I don't think anyone said they want the opinions silenced. You can talk all day long but like I said, where are their proposed solutions? I see a lot of people calling themselves "activists" when what they really mean is "professional complainers". I have little respect for those people, real activists have done the world a great deal of good. People who complain and want to be seen in the same light are spitting on the graves of the people who have put real effort into the causes they claim to espouse.

My only beef with the polygon review is this: *Reviews* are meant to be pieces that determine whether a game is worth buying. Typically, reviews are written by authors who are enthusiasts of the genre. This is why you don't have professional movie critics reviewing games, right?

So considering this is Bayonetta 2 we're talking about, it's not exactly unknown as to what type of game it is, and the audience it caters to. Just like you wouldn't make the person who reviews Gone Home review SuperKillathon Frenzy Simulator 2015, the person reviewing Bayonetta games should be able to *handle* what is obviously an ongoing theme in the series.

That's just crappy game reviewing really, and it is doing the fans who read these reviews looking to decide if the game is worth buying, a disservice.

Maybe if Polygon didn't score games, they could argue "But we said the only thing we didn't like was the sexual stuff! If you like the last game, this is great!!" However, they do. And Metacritic will show a 7.5 to fans of the genre who may have bought it otherwise.

Like I said, crappy "journalism" in a review piece. That kind of content belongs in an Opinion piece, or an editorial.

 

And then five seconds later you say:

and that you think the correct thing to do is to remove that reviewer and replace them with a reviewer who shares your own opinions of the game. Don't you think there might be gamers reading reviews who don't share your opinions? Don't they deserve to have reviews to read as well?

Solution to what?

The activists you claim to care about were all called useless complainers back in their day as well.