Serious communication issues with Unity's Asset Store Team.

Usually anytime I have a problem I deal with it privately. I love all things unity and I have a pro account to show it.

About 2 months ago I decided to start making content for the Unity Asset Store in my spare time.

I decided that I would make game template packs to help new developers learn how to create games with a quality code structure.

So far I have projects being developed based on popular games as well as editor extensions:

Completed Projects:
Flappy Birdies (Rejected)
MultiTags (Successfully Released)

Almost Completed Projects:
Super Plubmer Brothers
Tiny Wingies
Snow Safari
Xelda
Mad Birdies

Started Projects:
Mega Awesome Man
Jet Pack Man
Clash of the Groups


On July 26th I submitted Flappy Birdies and 3 days later was rejected with a generic message:

"Due to copyright concerns, we generally do not take content that is a direct recreation of existing popular games as template projects. We love to see complete projects based off of creative game play mechanics, but will not be considering any submissions that appear to deliberately modify existing themes and artistic styles as their own.
Consistent with the criteria considered in our approval process, we have chosen not to publish this asset. However, we greatly appreciate the time and effort spent in preparing your submission."

Honestly Im ok with this because I understand, flappy birds is a crappy game, and I guess unity doesn't want to push that anymore using their engine. But then I see that in their own standard 2d assets on the store they have their own Flappy Birds Demo. Obviously we have a problem now. I can't even count how many temple run knock offs their are in the asset store. There is even a slingshot angry birds kit in the store.

I called unity back and left a voicemail asking what I needed to do to make it worthy of the asset store...Did it need new art? New name? Is the gameplay completely not allowed even though there are unity made assets that have similar knockoff gameplay?

Also important side note. I placed this message in the package description for customers to read:
"We do not encourage you to release this as is to any store. It is designed for educational purposes. Please be creative!"

I waited a week got no response. I left my email, and phone number and I think I left the case number as well. (case 458558)

Anyways I took the next couple weeks to not give up and I decided to remake all my art for all the projects in a "blueprint" style so one one would consider it stealing.

Here are demo links to 2 of the projects:

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1660807/FlappyBirdies/FlappyBirdies.html
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1660807/SuperPlumberBros/SuperPlumberBros.html

I then Resubmitted Flappy Birdies on September 3rd and got a rejection email again on September 10th.

The email was EXACTLY the same.

"Due to copyright concerns, we generally do not take content that is a direct recreation of existing popular games as template projects. We love to see complete projects based off of creative game play mechanics, but will not be considering any submissions that appear to deliberately modify existing themes and artistic styles as their own.
Consistent with the criteria considered in our approval process, we have chosen not to publish this asset. However, we greatly appreciate the time and effort spent in preparing your submission."

I call them again. Leave a voicemail wondering if I have wasted the the past 2 months with all of these templates. I get NOTHING back. So I decide to email them on September 11th -
------------------------
"This is understandable but also extremely annoying. That I spent all
this time for nothing. You guys have your own flappy bird demo in the
2d standard asset downloads, if you truly lived up to those standards
then you would remove that as well. I assumed it would be allowed
since you guys have one yourself!

I have also been developing 6 other blueprint game packs that are
inspired by popular games. These blueprint packs target people who
truly want to learn a quality and simplistic approach to game
development inspired by games they already love.

I have been working also on a Mario inspired template, angry birds
inspired template, tiny wings inspired template, and 3 others.

Have I been wasting my time completely? It makes me furious. I even
called and left a voicemail with the asset store team a few weeks back
when I submitted the first version of flappy birdies. I got
absolutely no reply. So I decided to remake and respin all the
projects in a blueprint theme...now only to get rejected again.

So now I must tell my wife that I have wasted the last 2 months, this
is unacceptable.

Who can I talk to about this?
Would it help if I give you guys more of my other web builds that show
the progress of the other blueprint template packs? I really believe
there is a good legal quality market there where people can learn.
Please don't let the last 2 months of my team and my development be in
vein.

*contant details*"


I received nothing in repsonse. Not a single thing. Not anyone to call or email and diffuse my frustration.
During this time I also was able to successfully release my MultiTags Pack which made me feel a lot better, but now I have spent all this time on many packs that may never see the light of day.

What do I do...I give up.

Fast forward to today Im browsing the asset store and I see a Flappy birds Art pack which was released last week. I am livid.


Well Unity? I am a loss for what words to say anymore.

 

I was there throughout this whole ordeal, when we tried to call Unity Asset Store and we heard voicemail every time. We left a voice mail but never received a response, which is kind of funny because I told Dustin that I doubt they'd call back and he said they would..well, they didn't. He put too much faith in the team at the asset store.

I had wasted some time on a game inspired by tiny wings and it had some really flexible terrain...guess I'll never be bothering to finish that off and release it since it'll probably be declined.

I only really get these issues with the Unity Asset Store, I love Unity .

 

Dabeh...Post a picture of the terrain so far! It is amazing.

 

I found some old screenshots I cropped one. These were for the Tiny Wingies/and Snow Safari Projects

 

Ergh the first one is ugly and old .

Anyway, I'm tired of all this asset store drama..the only time I've ever had anything satisfactory come out of them is when they did the right thing and gave us what we bought with the Daikon Forge GUI...but we had to fight for that.

 

I'd say the main issue is the names, many of those names are close enough that legal action is a real possibility. Call a megaman pack "Robot Platform Shooter Kit", call Zelda "Retro Action RPG". You can make the graphics similar but they shouldn't be frame by frame replicas.

Not answering your questions is obviously not good customer support from UT, but I think the potential issues here are pretty obvious. In the specific case of Flappy Birdies, I don't think there's any need for more flappy bird kits and think thats a legitimate reason for rejection in itself. But the rest of the stuff sounds great.

 

Your blueprint demos look great. I hope you'll get to publish them.

I would try contacting Caitlyn Meeks directly. Maybe via her twitter account.

I've never met her or submitted an asset to the asset store but I've seen her speak in a few Unite videos and she seems like a nice person (as do all Unity people).

 

"Flappy Bird"
"Flappy Birdies"
"Flappy Birdies"

Lets imagine for a second that I made a brick stacking game template, called it "Tetrisoes", and submitted it to the Asset Store. Would you expect it to go live?

 

I understand your opinion but I hope that's not the reason for the rejection.

Aside from the "Staff picks" section, the asset store isn't generally considered curated is it?

I'd prefer the free market decide when it is saturated.

But I understand why the name itself could be the issue.

 

You guys are totally on point... and I have the same thoughts. My biggest issue is the lack of feedback or communication with them. I have been trying to have a conversation of what I need to do on my end. I can't make a small change wait 2 weeks for them to just reject me again...and again...and again. I would like to know what it takes to make it through the hoops. If its the names...no worries ill change it in a heart beat. That is what want to know. Or is the issue deeper that I am going to have issues with all of these template packs because of the gameplay. I want to know before I spend anymore time on these.

 

You can always make your own store and sell it like many other people do. Nothing stopping you from doing that.

 

Lol Anarchy for the win

 

Sorry for expecting the unity asset store to be run professionally.

 

I've only had one minor issue with and asset submission and I sent a quick and concise email (no bloviating) and it was taken care of within a day. Not that I doubt in any way shape or form the issues you've had, but in most cases that really is how it works and they've always been professional with me.

There are some hiccups but in general the store is run professionally. It is somewhat curated in the sense that they do some quality control. Often times 3D assets that people submit are rejected because they don't meet up with quality standards that Unity would like to build up on the asset store. Assets are also rejected when there are floods of very similar or nearly identical assets... so the new assets better have some great value add over the existing ones.

My take in this case is just as angrypenguin pointed out... "Flappy Birdies". You're attempting to publish something that is way too close to the game that it is a clone of... either just in name or both in name and content.

Additionally, was your asset a free asset or a paid one? What about the flappy bird art pack that you said went up on the store?

 

The first time it was uploaded, IMO, the denial was justified. But the replies were lacking and ambiguous(since it's a C&P) and we have been unable to get a proper response from Unity even after calling and leaving voicemail etc. Dustin had to do guess work and he upped the quality and released it again with it being denied a second time without a good reason.

We don't expect them to give an exact reason every time something is declined, we do expect them to give a proper response once we start calling and emailing though.

If it was the name, they should have just said it was when we asked about it instead of ignoring us. Also, there were no other duplicate assets at the time when it was posted to the store...and take a look at the template area and you'll see about a couple dozen(not exaggerating here) endless runner clones along with other types of clones that have many duplicates.

 

Sell them yourself ( not anarchy; capitalism )

I'll be very curious to see whether any of the Unity Staff will actually bother replying to this thread.

 

That seems weird you cant copyright a game concept.

 

It wouldn't be hard, I know of some devs already doing so. I just love the convenience as a user of the asset store, I have probably spent easily over 1k on the store since its launch.

 

Especially not for educational purposes...

 

Sure it's a canned response. They don't have time to personally reply to each submission but...

I see nothing ambiguous or mysterious in this response at all. "You're copying Flappy Birds' S***". That's what they're saying. You haven't done enough to distinguish your product. I can promise you that the mechanics had nothing to do with it. Your artwork may be too close or may not be... but the name is the big thing. You may see other Flappy Bird related stuff but the bottom line is:

1. You named your product Flappy Birdies (very close to Flappy Bird)
2. In addition, your product was a clone of the game

So it's not like you're just putting out some flappy bird style content... you're putting out a clone of the game and naming it almost identically. You may not like it... but this is a problem.

 

Okay well what about this one. Its a clone of temple run that made a mint when temple run was hot.
https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/3292

 

"You're copying Flappy Birds' S***" - Right a game that had had its creator remove the app from both app stores.
"You haven't done enough to distinguish your product." - um... thats the point its a blueprint design of a popular game to help students learn how to properly architect a game.
"Your artwork may be too close or may not be" - I suggest you play my demo that I listed in the first post...
"but the name is the big thing" - Ok I would like to hear that from them before I continue working on the countless other projects with the same agenda.

"you're putting out a clone of the game" - no...no I did not "put out" a clone of a game. I created a source code version of a game to sell to people that want to learn how something could be done in unity, Not to release to the app stores. re read my side note up top. "We do not encourage you to release this as is to any store. It is designed for educational purposes. Please be creative!"

 

some people are releasing these projects as is. Once something goes super viral, you need to get a half decent clone and sell it the cloners there are like 100+ clones of piano tiles, 200 slenders, 130 temple runs.

http://www.appannie.com/search/?q=piano+tiles+&vertical=apps&market=ios
http://www.appannie.com/search/?q=slender&vertical=apps&market=ios

 

What do you seek to gain by debating peoples' responses here? Getting defensive towards other community members isn't going to help.

 

You're arguing semantics. If you recreated a replica of iOS and released it as source code for educational purposes, Apple would sue you.

I played your game... it's very close to the original... very similar bird... pipes... same thing. At any rate, it seems that other people here are having no problem understanding the email that you received back. I think you're allowing your frustration to jade you a bit. At any rate, I can see exactly why they would reject it. Replace the bird with a cow, replace the pipes with farmers holding electric cattle prods. Rename it to "Zappy Cow", and you'll probably be just fine.

 

I like you....you know why? because of 2 reasons...one you are obviously named dustin and two because you speak in common sense.

You are missing the point though...I want unity to have a dialogue with me. I have called and left messages 2 times, and emailed. I do not like to waste time twiddling my thumbs.

 

We have no problem with these changes if they're reasonable, it's just they're not willing to discuss it with us after many repeated attempts.

We're all playing the guessing game on why we're being declined and it's being derailed, we want them to talk with us and not have to go to the forums and start complaining to hear anything because now instead of getting a response on why we're being ignored and have better communication in the future the whole point behind this thread will be ignored and they'll just say why we got declined which won't help in the future.

 

These points I agree with... if they haven't responded to your emails they should. I was speaking specifically to the point of their canned message being unclear. However, maybe there's nothing you could change that would make them approve it... it would be nice to know that, or at least know to what degree it needs changed so you don't waste a lot of time.

 

Beyond the name issue I can't really see why it would be rejected, and the lack of communication well... maybe they don't realise they actually have a voicemail service!

On the plus side, I really like the Blueprint art style and the annotations in the Mario game Although I suck at bounce block double kills...

 

Practice makes perfect nomad

 

While you're waiting for them to reply, try Dustin's "Zappy Cow" suggestion and see if it works. If they still don't reply, and this gets approved then you'll at least have some form of feedback.

 

Answers by omission. The scientific way.

 

Being a bit antisocial I tend to seek answers that way most of the time. But in your case I would also definitely prefer a straight up answer. xD

 

A) Cheers

B) I'll wait till Dustin(charmandermon) clarifies for me but I do have to say that we did manage to get a hold of a number of someone working at the asset store.

C) I think we replied to the asset store email but I'll let Dustin clarify, don't you have anything in place to forward emails to the asset store? (PS: I've always had good experiences when dealing with support@unity3d.com with fast turnaround, thanks , can't keep count of the amount of times I've had my license reset on the same day as requested).

D) I think we've paid enough, I'd hate to have to pay more to get a non-generic reply.

E) I can agree with this, but I'd love some communication so we know what we have to do to get it released; otherwise we're just wasting our time and money.

 

Yet you allow it to remain which strikes me as odd. I cannot imagine any sensible reason to allow something to remain on the store that presented potential legal issues if you are turning down others.

 

This is my thought too. Whether it's a legal or moral decision to not allow packages that clone popular game mechanics, surely it should apply to things already on the store as well as new submissions?

Also, at what point are packages considered a clone of something vs offering implementations of core mechanics to a particular genre? Flappy Bird, Mario or Temple Run hardly have complex mechanics. Is every FPS starter kit just a clone of Wolfenstein? It seems like a very grey area...

 

Thank you for responding Graham. If I remember correctly the number I called was the standard help numbers from the contact page.

We called them both numerous times. But it doesn't matter.

International: (+44) 1273 987444

10am to 6pm (GMT)

San Francisco office: (415) 539-3162

10am to 6pm (PST)


If you want to delete this thread that would be fine as long as someone PMs me or emails me, or calls me.

Thanks,
Dustin

 

Seriously?

b) Emphasising the lack of an effective communication structure in your company?
c) Emphasising unwillingness to be perceived as an integrated company, people that work, communicate together, value each other's work?
d) For heaven's-sake this won't please anybody and it's basically something that you say is "in the talk" so why even mention it? Now that you mention it, I'll just say this: paid support? an acceptable strategy for people offering a free service. Is the Asset Store a free service... ? Maybe. But frankly with profiling tools (and many other things) being behind the pay barrier things are a bit unclear. My two cents: charge a yearly fee for asset store membership... Why? Paying for a business service (and support!) is a fact of life. Whereas, paying to understand why 2 months worth of work are being rejected is... just sad.

Saying that you're not authorised to talk about this and that is worse than saying nothing. It would be a good time to clarify the policies that motivated the rejection - which doesn't necessarily entail disclosing details regarding that particular rejection.

I find the asset store idea awesome although I've yet to find anything there that I might want to pay for, or even get for free. So, what's awesome about it? Well, if nothing else, the fact that it's completely integrated into the unity software. That this degree of integration crumbles as soon as we move to the support side of things is... ...buggy?

 

No it wouldn't. How can you put something here for people to comment on and debate about (as a result of which your problem gets the attention it deserves) then say "okay, problem solved, let's bury the whole thing"?

 

Eelstork. Honestly you hit the nail on the head about everything. I totally agree. The reason why I said they could delete the thread is because I am not on to cause a scene ever. I am a motivator not a ruckus causer. Granted I am still quite mad about the whole situation, the truth of the matter is I still love unity and everything they have done for me, it really is an incredible tool that has changed peoples lives around the globe, in fact even my 3 year old boy.

I would like to point out one thing that stuck with me about what graham said earlier...bringing up the paid support idea for assistance and directions is one thing, being rejected 2 times without proper reasoning, and not responding to many attempts at communication is just plain unacceptable. To be honest it is a motivation killer. Right now I am just wore out about this. I was excited when I started, now I'm not. I want to be excited again.

Also personally I don't care if they delete the thread or not, I am just giving them permission to do so. It will be interesting to see the true colors there though.

 

So... remove ruin run from the store?

 

I'm not sure how I personally feel about paid support. If it is, then it better be priority phone support. It is tough though... they do need to provide support for people that have paid assets on the store. Unity has made thousands of dollars from sales of my asset. However, what about free assets? You could make the case that the asset store itself is a value add for Unity.. and it is... and there are some amazing assets (both paid and free), so maybe they are really loss leaders for Unity itself. But then again, a great number of people are also using a free version of Unity so they do need to monetize in some way in order to operate at a net gain. What do you do?

 

The rules are generally not retroactive. I don't really see any reason they would need to remove the existing ones. Chances are they are not big sellers or high volume items in general anyway. I doubt any of them are making any of the "Top..." lists.

 

I like what you mean behind your words, but unfortunately that would be the opposite of my goal and not progress.

 

I understand why the rules are generally not retroactive. They would need to review all their assets again to verify they follow the rules. That could be time intensive and slow down the process of reviewing new assets.

That doesn't stop me from viewing it as an unfair advantage that they allow some people, who may very well be violating the new terms of service, to keep their assets on the store solely because they got there prior to the changes.

 

What? He never said anything about legal issues. All he said is that their rules/guidelines have changed. Perhaps the reason they're not interested in having more game clones is simply driven by the idea that they think they already have enough?

Also, I suspect that the reason the emails and rejection messages are generic is that they don't want to be held liable for specifics, especially when those specifics are subject to change.

 

Again I'm trying to figure out if I am wasting my time on all of these projects... I honestly don't care about losing one template....I care about the fact my team and I have done work on many projects, that may never see the light of day.

 

I highly doubt that. It sounds like their motivation is to catch situations exactly like this. Thanks to the recent update to Unity 4.6 Beta including a webplayer, I was finally able to give their Super Plumber Brothers demo a go.

They may have made their own assets, but they clearly resemble Super Mario Brothers art and their demo level is an obvious copy. Anyone who wants to compare, here is the level layout for Super Mario Brothers 1-1.

 

...They are all obviously copies...that is kinda the point of the educational blueprints. In fact I even used that same reference image you posted inside of unity when setting up our tile engine to match it pixel for pixel for nostalgia purposes. I even tried to match the original physics, took a lot of tweaking to get it this close.