Selling A game with free version

Alright so once you complete your project with the free version how does unity track that you have made 100k usd in a year

 

I'm fairly certain it is your job to know when your company hits the $100K mark.

 

They come to your house with 3 muscular Russians and politely inquire about your fiscal success.

 

Seriously, if you've made $100,000 off your game... does the cost of the paid version seem like that big of a deal?

Plus you get all the great pro features.

 

Definitely not compared to the court costs involved in not paying the licensing fee at that point.

 

Remember though it is not making $100k from games with Unity it is making $100k or more per year period. Meaning if you make $50k per year at your job as soon as you make $50k per year from games developed in Unity you are at the $100k. Just wanted to throw that out because I only recently found out. I read so many posts where people talked about if your GAME (as in one single game) made $100k in a year you need pro. Which would mean 99.99% of people would never need to upgrade. It is true you would need to buy pro in that case but the income is total income from job, all games and anything else. Which means if you are making $100k already without even making a game then you also need to buy pro.

As a side note this is not Game Design related.

 

I've wondered about that. It seems lame that they put any claim against money you made that had nothing to do with them. If I've got a day job and want to use Unity on the side, why should that make any difference? *sigh*

But in the end, it's really not *that* much money in comparison.

 

Wow, really? I did not know that. I hope the Unity folks come here and tell us more about this. So if one person on the team has a day job that makes more than 100k a year and has nothing at all to do with games, they cannot use free? What if we have a programmer on the team that makes that much but the other team members are poor or students?

This doesn't apply to us since we are purchasing pro anyway before we publish but curious about how it works out for others. Seems more restrictive than I thought.

 

"the free version of Unity may not be licensed by a commercial entity with annual gross revenues (based on fiscal year) in excess of US$100,000, "

The very easy, and also totally recommendable workaround for this is to register your indie studio as a LLC.

Then it is a separate commercial entity from you... and your personal job revenue is not relevant.

 

Oh, I had just copied that exact thing and was going to post it. Thanks for getting there before me.

Really, you guys need to read the license before you post stuff like this. It really could mean that a lot of people were in violation of the license...which turns out not to be the case.

Shame on you for posting before you are informed. And shame on me for posting BEFORE looking at the license. Kudos to Dan. :

 

So it's still true if you don't make a corporation for your game... Which would probably be dumb, especially if you make any decent money at all with it.

 

The money is still money made by the corporation, which is the legal entity. The entire reason for incorporating is to separate the corporation's income from your own. So you could still incorporate your game company and have a job on the side, such as working as an IT tech at some other company, and your personal income would not be part of the corporation, except for money from your own accounts that you have invested in your own company. That money could be counted.

So go ahead and make your own corporation. Just keep records of how much money you invest and how much you make off the corporation. Keep the accounts separate.

If you make any sort of money off of it, you should consider buying pro anyway. Of course, 100k seems like a lot unless you that is the sole income used to support a family, send kids to college, pay the mortgage, etc.

 

All I know is that in a thread posted sometime within the past month a Unity rep posted that a company using Unity making more than $100k per year needs to buy pro. They also explicitly stated that if a person made say $50k per year from other sources say their job if they then made $50k per year from Unity games they would need to buy pro. I would never had wrote what I did if it had not come directly from a Unity rep on these forums. So no shame on me is needed. Lol I was trying to help make it clear because until I read that I did not know it was that way.

Of course if people are making an LLC that would be entirely different. To me that is another thing entirely. I was posting for all of the people who are just developing games as individuals which I believe is the vast majority despite them often listing fictitious company and team names.

 

People SHOULD be making an LLC or other form of corporation before they launch their game anyway. The limited liability protection afforded by being an LLC is tremendously important in protecting you from lawsuits.

 

One is named Soda Popinski. This is his theme. You do not lie to Soda Popinski.

Also, this isn't a design topic.

 

I don't disagree with that but we were talking only about when a person needs to buy pro. Forming an LLC and other business practices are great but a bit of a different topic. I was just hoping to clear up the bit about the money. People have interpreted it to mean when they make a game with Unity that exceeds $100k in a year they need to buy pro. And that is very different from what the requirements actually are based on what I read.

I am trying to find the thread I read. I have found several so far but not the exact one I remember the most. Lol

I will search more tonight. Doing it on cell is not very efficient.

This one is quite close to the one I remember.

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/free-version-publishing-question.269439/

 

GarBenjamin, I think that person meant that if you make $50k from other projects, such as freelancer or what not, but using the same company/studio name. I don't think he meant a non-game related job. If he did, then he didn't read the license. It would never stand up in court.

 

I still like this theme better...

 

Someone needs a reading comprehension class/

 

I must admit...I am a bit confused about where he got that from as well. I read the thread and I read the license. It is obvious to me.

 

Again, I said if you don't make a corporation. If you don't make one, there isn't one, and the income doesn't belong to it. And then your income would be the one in question.

 

I know you were trying to clarify, but that's even less clear than before. Are you saying that my personal account (for my day job, not Unity related at all) would factor in, even if I made a corporation for my game?

 

You can find many online probably or even a local class perhaps if needed.

I already explained it. I think you all are making this way more complicated than it is by assuming for some reason that I just pulled what I wrote out of the air or have a reading comprehension problem. Lol I already said it was on this forum a unity rep had laid it out specifically. I have tried to find it but is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

But that is okay because another just made it clear as can be right here...

This is where I got what I wrote from. Not this specific post obviously. But what do you read there? I see that when YOU as a person exceed $100k in a 12 month period from any and all sources of income you need to buy Pro.

 

Okay, let me see if I get this....

So a member of your team could have a job and make more than 100k but they can't make that money from their business? If I worked at XYZ during the day, and made games on the side, and made 101k at my day job, would I be able to use free? What if I never published a game?

Or is it that if I owned XYZ business and sold cars and made 101k then I would have to buy pro and every member of my team, including students and poor struggling artists would also have to buy pro?

 

So this is the way I currently understand it:

I create an LLC and make a game, without another job. Under $100k, Free is okay. Over, Pro is needed.

I have a day job earning $101k per year. I make an LLC and make a game. If the LLC makes under $100k, Free is okay? LLC makes over $100k, Pro is needed? Right?

I have a day job earning $101k per year. I don't create an LLC. I need Pro?

The bold parts are the ones I'm still unsure of. Can you clarify things?

 

Oh, and 1 more:

My spouse and I make more than $100k per year combined at our day jobs, but not individually. We don't make an LLC. I would need Pro?

 

Thank you for replying here. Yours is the post I read! But no matter how much I searched I could not find it. At least now people know I am not making it up. Lol

 

If this is true, Unity needs to rewrite their license. I also would love to see them go after someone for personal assets in this sort of case, especially if they were producing the game under an incorporated company.

Personally, anyone serious about PUBLISHING a game needs Pro and if you can afford it, you should buy it. But someone making games for a hobby? Unity makes free for a reason and uses this to counter other engines that charge much less. They tell us this over and over and it has always made a bit of sense to me. Free is there, use it and stop complaining..isn't that what we hear?

So this is puzzling to me. Would love to hear about the team aspects too. One could easily violate the agreement Aurore spelled out by just adding a team member with a business making art for oil companies (I worked with such a guy in the past).

 

For the moment there i thought i get it.. but what @wccrawford posted makes me confused again. And how about if someone wins a lottery or sell their house and get 101k

 

I would love to hear this from your legal team.

Also, you never responded to the question about team mates. Since you can't use pro and free together, this is a conflict. It means if one person earns 101k, then every single person on the small team must have pro.

While likely they will eventually need Pro anyway, not every small team does.

 

Okay well you all can sort this stuff out. It makes perfect sense to me. I think people are just getting bogged down in details. To me it seems very straightforward. Stop thinking about games. Just set that aside for a moment. You as a person make over $100k in a 12 month period (from whatever it does not matter mowing lawns, selling houses, etc) then you must buy Pro. You work for a company making 3 million per year but you only make $40k per year you do not need to buy Pro because you make less than $100k in a 12 month period. If your company decides to use Unity for something they need to buy Pro because they make over $100k in a 12 month period.

Anyway, I am just glad to be out of the loony bin and am now outta here. Lol

 

So...it might not be hard for Unity to look at business proceeds, but are they going to start requesting tax returns? lol I think not. Sadly, if it his true, and I seriously doubt that, then they are just going to make the honest people move on to something else where they won't have to feel guilty about violating the license.

 

How do personal salaries outside of my game company have to do anything with a license? If my company purchases uses Unity, how does money I make outside of that company have anything to do with anything that company does other than maybe securing a loan? It is the company that owns the license, not me personally.

According to the license agreement, wccrawford you would be fine with free if your LLC makes under 100k a year. I'd be interested to see what someone from Legal at Unity has to say about it. According to what I'm reading, I would think a business attorney would be able to fight any claim against any income not generated by your LLC. If you don't have a business entity, THEN it looks like it would be based on your personal income.

I'm no lawyer, but that is EXACTLY how it reads to me. I would personally put more stock in what legal has to say instead of the community manager though. Sorry if that offends, Aurore. But based on what I'm reading in the license, I think you are totally wrong.

EDIT: Had some things come up and you guys posted more since I started typing this.. I would love to hear what you find out Aurore! Thanks for checking.

 

So if Bill Gates made a silly little 50cents app game as a hobby, and no part of his business empire, he'd need to buy Pro?

If I make a zillion dollars from my UnrealEngine game, and sell a silly little 50cents app as well, I'd need to buy Unity Pro?

I don't see how Unity can have any say over parts of your business or income that do not directly relate to a Unity product. Any lawyers like to comment?

 

I was going to stay away but I thought maybe it would be helpful to make one last post. Of course what Unity Legal says is what we all need to hear.

However... it just seems to me like everyone is making something that is so simple into something that is confusing.

Think of it like this. Unity can charge whatever they want. They do not have to offer an Indy / Free version at all. All they are saying is that to help you, me and tons of other people out they have made a free version available.

However, this free version is only available for people / companies not exceeding $100k income in a 12 month period.

How or why people would think that is not legal is beyond me.

 

Because, it is not stated clearly in the license.

And because whenever someone complains about the price, Unity reminds them it is free. They do not say it is free if you make less than 100k personal income..that is not stated anywhere.

It is legal only when it is stated clearly to people who use the license. Very likely there are people who published free games using free and had no idea that their personal income made using free illegal. Unity needs to very clearly state that this includes person income. In the license, business is in parentheses making it more likely that it is the business income they care about.

Also, there is discrepancies between income from team members and using pro and free together. They need to state this very very clearly if they intend to enforce it. We really do need to hear from a legal team on this matter. Some of us want to make very sure that we are not violating the license. Some of us have already spent years making games on free only to find out that we did violate the license.

I have not found any other indie products that uses personal income. Most of them state very clearly that your game or business income is what is counted. Again, incorporating a business protects your personal income. Unity has no ability to come after you for money you might make with any game you make if it comes from your personal income and you separatd your business from your personal income with an LLC or Incorporation.. They could, however, come after your business.

If this were not true, people would never start small businesses. Can you imagine losing your house, the education fund for your kids' college, etc., just because you violated a license that was unclear? While that is a stretch, it is still something most of us want to avoid. Court costs can be outrageous and we can't compete with Unity's pockets, even if we make 101k a year.

GarBenjamin, this is not personal. I love Unity but I want to make sure all is spelled out clearly. For their sake too. I can't imagine the bad publicity this could cause. And while most people here think free is stupid and Unity should get rid of it, it brings people to Pro. I am a prime example of that and am buying Pro as soon as Unity 5 is stable enough for what I need.

 

I agree completely the terms and conditions of the license need to be updated. This very thread shows there is way too much ambiguity.

I also think as Aurore has described is exactly what they intended. Maybe I am wrong about that but I doubt it. It just makes sense to me. I have seen many other products using a similar model. It is even akin to student versions of commercial products. Of course if they simply charged $99 for the Indy version that would help kill multiple birds with one stone so to speak.

Alright now I will stop posting. For real. Honest to goodness.

 

Her money is my money, and my money is her money. When we file taxes, we're 1 entity. "Personal" income isn't mentioned either, and neither is "non-Unity", so everything is included by default. I see no reason to think household income is different at this point.

This is quite important to me because I recently got married. Prior to that, everything I did with Unity was obviously legal. At this point, though, it's all been thrown in doubt. I no longer know if I can legally publish something with a free version of Unity. I have 4 Pro, so I'm okay for now, but I expect to use Unity 5 when it comes out and I hadn't earned a single penny from Unity 4, so I didn't plan on paying for it.

For contrast, Unreal Engine 4's terms (and FAQ) are very clear that only the game's revenue is counted, and not anything else. This seems a lot more fair, though I do recognize that they're getting a percentage and Unity is not.

 

I agree with what you are saying here. What I don't agree with is if my company purchases and uses Unity, then it should be my legally registered company's income that is under scrutiny for the license. Any income I generate outside of my company that bought and uses Unity should have no bearing. And I think that is how the license is written, but Aurore's post makes it sound like it is any income that I have and not just my company that is using the Unity license. My post was only to seek clarification from someone in legal.

To be honest, it is a non-issue for me because plans for my game will require pro features. I would just like to see clarifications that make sense based on what is written in the license terms to help with some of the confusion that I'm seeing this thread spread into Skype groups I participate in...

 

Ha ha ha! Wow. So now we have come back the other way. This is different than what I had read previously but that is fine. At least we finally have an answer to it.

So you are saying if I make $110k per year from my job it does not matter. No different than if I made $50k per year from my job.

I am fine with either way. Made sense to me that even if I made $110k from my job I would need to buy Pro. But this way is even better for us.

Thanks for clearing it up. Assuming someone else does not come in and post another different meaning! Lol

 

Indeed, if I make a game with Unity that makes $100k, I have absolutely no problem spending the money for Unity Pro.

The problem is that the legalese says that if I earn $100k at all I have to spend that money.

It's all well and good to say that you don't consider hobbyists to be legal entities, but I'm accustomed to following the licensing and that's not what it says. Even if Unity Tech feels that way right now, there's nothing stopping them from interpreting it the other way in the future, and the hobbyists would have no defense.

Edit: Your cavalier attitude to how your customers and potential customers feel is a real turn-off. Coming here and saying that we're getting "off the rails" when we just want clarification on Unity's legal terms is going too far. If Unity isn't willing to provide that clarification, that will be unacceptable. I would never sign a contract that was that vague.

 

Sorry about me leading us down a rabbit hole, @Teila and the rest of you. Honestly, I just wanted to help clarify based on something I had read recently which made sense to me (knowing that license agreements don't always say what they were intended to). It seems this information and my agreement was not correct after all and I have no issue with saying that. On the bright side, now we can move on down the road.

 

Absolutely no problem paying for pro if I earn $100k! I would happily dish it out.

 

TOTALLY agree Graham! Thanks for the clarifications!

 

Nice one Graham. Cleared things up.

I'm a subscriber anyway - Pro ftw