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Scion - Filmic Post Processing

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Aieth, Jul 9, 2015.

  1. pointcache

    pointcache

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    Well i dont care about scale currently im doing abstract things. Whatever thanks for help guys but i found out that standard effects Dof is doing it with any range without any problems.
     
    S_Darkwell likes this.
  2. S_Darkwell

    S_Darkwell

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    Absolutely. As @Martin_H mentioned, Scion has been striving to emulate actual camera affects. There are upsides to that approach, but there are also definite limitations.

    Be well!
    - S.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  3. Unreal-Vision

    Unreal-Vision

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    Totally agree. But you are one of the best FX/Shader dev of Unity Community and, as yours, I see a lot of good and useful assets with no update because of missing revenue on long-term publishing.
    Probably Unity need to help devs on this topic.
    Otherwise send CV to Unity company :p
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  4. bakanekofr

    bakanekofr

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    Why not making paid upgrades for each new major version? I've seen some assets doing this (Candela SSRR) and I don't mind paying for the upgrades if the new features are worth it!
     
    Arkade likes this.
  5. ZJP

    ZJP

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    Pay for a new version with new features is not the problem. Pay for a new version that solve old bugs staying in the previous version : that's the problem.
     
  6. bakanekofr

    bakanekofr

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    That's why I said new "major" version (new features). Bug fixes should be free, and the author already plan to continue support for that.
     
  7. Unreal-Vision

    Unreal-Vision

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    This was Candela SSR :)
     
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  8. bakanekofr

    bakanekofr

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    Well, Candela SSRR might be a bad example (I don't use it, just noticed the paid upgrade). Anyway, you see my point :)
     
  9. KRGraphics

    KRGraphics

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    Is there a way to exclude the sky from being exposed in Scion?
     
  10. mittense

    mittense

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    Set up a site where I can subscribe to Scion and any other asset work you want to do and I'm all over that. You're One of the Good Ones.
     
  11. Aieth

    Aieth

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    I was actually talking to them last fall, but I never heard back. Now I'm working with actual game development instead of fancy graphics ;)

    I appreciate the sentiment, I suppose we will see what I do if my current endeavor goes belly up ;) I have high hopes for it though. I've started an indie company working on a strategy/tycoon type title.
     
    Tethys and KRGraphics like this.
  12. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    That's cool, best of luck with the game! Be sure to post a link here once anything is online so we can have a look. :)
     
  13. gringo2012

    gringo2012

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    This is what I get in the latest Unity 5.4 beta

    Assets/ScionPostProcess/Scripts/InspectorAttributes/Editor/InspectorAttributesEditor.cs(341,30): error CS0121: The call is ambiguous between the following methods or properties: `UnityEditor.EditorGUI.Vector4Field(UnityEngine.Rect, UnityEngine.GUIContent, UnityEngine.Vector4)' and `UnityEditor.EditorGUI.Vector4Field(UnityEngine.Rect, string, UnityEngine.Vector4)'

    I fixed it, but you might want to fix it in your package too
     
  14. sjm-tech

    sjm-tech

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    My last project where Scion makes the huge difference in visual quality. Incredible visual quality boost!
    Cheers.
    Max

     
  15. zenGarden

    zenGarden

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    Where is the wind on grass and trees, animals , insects, particles wind dust, post process is not enought.
     
  16. sjm-tech

    sjm-tech

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    They are almost all present except particles wind dust ... I'm open to any feedback here ;)
    Anyway here i was pointing only my experience of Scion in terms of visual quality boost.:)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
    Tiny-Man and Martin_H like this.
  17. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Hey @Aieth -- Scion looks lovely! (obviously)
    5 things I hoped to write to you about -- most important first:

    1. How come no response to @bakanekofr's question?

    Several of the assets I use have taken this approach (especially after being in the sale -- both a :) and a :| ) and it seems a reasonable approach for new functionality. If you don't already have data on this, perhaps a little poll of current/potential customers to prioritize enhancements and upgrade cost?

    2. Now that Unity has vector fields (IIUC), might motion blur make it into your pipeline (as a paid upgrade)?

    3. How hard might it be for customers to integrate their own post-fx? Specifically I'm using an outliner which obviously uses the depth buffer so makes obvious sense to do along the way. Any chance for hints of where I should start once I've purchased, please?

    4. I wanted to empathize with your plight. I looked at Jove previously. I'm saddened that you won't be doing more Unity Asset work. It seemed much of your asset work has been superseded/obsoleted by Unity strategies. Such a loss to our Unity community that you've gone over to the Unreal side of the Force ;-)

    5. I did a little Googling but couldn't find your new project. http://aieth2.wix.com/ is dead. I'm sure many would be interested in following your (undoubtedly beautiful) future work (even on 'the other' engine ;-) ). Anything to share yet?

    Thanks & Good luck,
    Rupert.
     
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  18. Aieth

    Aieth

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    That would be possible, unfortunately I have to prioritize where I spend my time. Like most programmers I acquired the bad habit of working on several things simultaneously, or taking a "small break" to "experiment with something". I am now focusing on getting what I am doing to take off as a viable career, which means spending all the time possible on the game I am developing.

    Motion blur is another one of those effects that wouldn't necessarily benefit from being combined with other things, except for integrating it with the camera variables (like aperture and shutter speed) for a more physically based approach. I expect Unity will release their own motion blur using the motion vectors (or already have? Not really in the loop), in which case that should suffice.

    You should look into the CombinationPass shader, it is where all things that don't require multiple passes occur. Easiest would probably be to bind the variables you need globally (or if its all hardcoded then just hardcode it) from another script, to make it easier to integrate with future Scion updates.

    Thanks :) It's a personal preference, but I much prefer C++ over C#. That alone settles which engine I use. I spend a majority of my time in C# working around language limitations to improve memory allocation and cache coherency.

    Nothing public yet, I intend to hire an artist in the upcoming months but for now it's all programming and programmer art. I may have splerged out a bit, writing a deterministic lockstep simulation using fixed point math in a data oriented entity component system, essentially running my own logic engine inside of Unreal Engine. I just use the engine as a "frontend" for my simulation, playing audio and interpolating graphics between my simulation steps.

    Thanks for the encouragement :) Let me know if you need any help with Scion!
     
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  19. Aieth

    Aieth

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    I am almost finished with the next patch, bringing a few bug fixes, 5.4 compatibility and the most requested addition: thresholding for bloom, lens dirt and lens flares. It would be great to have a few beta testers just to make sure, so if anyone wants to try it out send me a PM with your invoice number (or if you have done so previously, just use the same conversation again so I can see it).
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  20. donov

    donov

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    Really want to get this for VR, but the fact that the developer won't be that committed any more is kinda worrying, optimizations, bug fixes etc..
     
  21. Aieth

    Aieth

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    Who said anything about not being committed? There's a huge difference between pushing entire content patches (as I have done in the past) and maintaining the asset. I'm basically declaring it "done", no longer in development but still maintained, like the majority of software. As far as optimizations go, it's already about as fast as it will get without major algorithmic changes (in which case the behavior would change as well, so that's a no-go).
     
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  22. donov

    donov

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    Ok, I just got it.
    Was mostly worried about compatibility with future Unity versions.
     
  23. Aieth

    Aieth

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    There's nothing to worry about in that regard :)
     
    recon0303 and Ony like this.
  24. chiapet1021

    chiapet1021

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    Perhaps this will entice @Aieth to revive a Jove-like endeavor, if/when it happens. :)
     
  25. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Thanks for your detailed reply! Purchased.

    ha! Yes, I'm a programmer too. These days I generally ban myself from side projects. I'm trying to make a viable career too. (see below)

    I've heard of the performance advantages of taking a data-oriented approach. I'm an ex C guy so yeah, it's all fun. I decided after years of hobby-tinkering making bits of game engines (3D physics systems, rendering pipelines, AI techniques, etc) that I wasn't actually *making games*! So I decided to take the highest level sufficiently fast approach and make games! Of course, then I had kids ;-) But I'm getting there (on both) :p

    Re. C++ vs. C#, I do wonder to myself whether, given the approach of IL2CPP, if Unity will eventually allow C++ a direct-access integration. Still three-odd years off, I'd guess.

    Anyway, thanks again. I look forward to investigating the "CombinationPass" and seeing your future results!
    Rupert.
     
  26. dark_tonic

    dark_tonic

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    Scion Filmic seems really cool, but we're unable to compile with your plugin as there are conflicts with some art asset plugins from Manufactura K4 (top down, and tower defense) specifically with "Bloom".

    We've tried renaming some files, but the problem remains.

    Is there any way to get everything to play nice together?
     
  27. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    If you get compiler errors you might want to quote them here.
     
  28. jerotas

    jerotas

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    I'm with mr dark_tonic. The first compiler error we get is:

    Assets/Standard Assets/Editor/ImageEffects/BloomEditor.cs(7,27): error CS0433: The imported type `Bloom' is defined multiple times

    I notice that our plugins already installed before Filmic include a Bloom.js, and there's a Bloom.cs in Filmic, so it looks like the editor is confused. I'm not sure how to handle this. ReSharper doesn't have an auto-fix although I've tried to "use" the correct one from the dropdown. The class file is not modified when I do that.

    I tried renaming Bloom.js to BloomJS.js in both filename and class name, but that only makes more errors appear, such as follows:

    Assets/MOBA and Tower Defense/Standard Assets/Editor/Image Effects/CameraMotionBlurEditor.js(58,55): BCE0004: Ambiguous reference 'CameraMotionBlur': CameraMotionBlur, CameraMotionBlur.

    And a lot more like that where those came from.

    Another thing contributing to (causing?) the problem is that shaders and scripts in MOBA / Top Down are actually replaced by importing Filmic. Here's part of what GIT is telling me just after doing an import of Filmic. Note that even some cs scripts are modified. That's sure to cause errors. I don't think you have mapped files in the package to those exact locations because that makes no sense, but perhaps Unity is catching "same file name" and remapping the package and screwing it up. Any ideas what to try?

    upload_2016-6-6_19-33-4.png

    There's also a bunch of these in the Console window after importing:

    Overriding existing asset with new GUID from package, this may break links within your project to package assets (Assets/Standard Assets/Image Effects (Pro Only)/_Sources/Shaders/_BloomAndFlares/Blend.shader)

    We're pretty clueless how to get this working after the import is behaving so weirdly. Any help would be appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    Tethys likes this.
  29. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Hey @jerotas it's been a while :)
    Just a couple of quick thoughts until any better answers arrive for you.

    Will you still want to use the old Bloom etc effects if you're adding Scion? If not (likely), why not delete them (first)?

    Else I'd imagine the only answer is namespacing.

    HTH, Rupert
     
  30. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    My first thought too, but in Scion's Bloom.cs it uses the namespace "ScionEngine".

    @jerotas: Could it be, that it's not the Scion bloom that is the duplicate, but you somehow managed to have 2 blooms from the standard assets that aren't namespaced? I just wanted to check if Scion has another duplicate standard bloom in the install package, but my unity is hung up on some "saving unsaved assets" that seems to take forever.

    Edit: finally managed to open unity and check the import package for Scion. Looks like it comes with a lot of "standard assets". I'd suggest to delete the standard assets folder if you didn't use or change anything from there, and then import scion again, but uncheck the whole standard assets on import. Check if the error is gone. And then reimport your packages that actually need the standard assets folder one by one and check if another error comes up after adding a new one.

    I think the whole concept of bundling standard assets with import packages is a bit flawed, it just screams to cause such problems. Maybe it would be a better solution to always provide assets in packs of 2 archives, one with just the barebones asset to import into your project and one with a complete project as a usage example that can have whatever standard assets it wants inside of it, without interfering with the demo projects of other assets. Just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
    Arkade likes this.
  31. jerotas

    jerotas

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    I think that's probably a good idea (2 packages). Maybe the standards assets part can be a package in the main package and users can just delete it or clean up standard assets before importing it.

    Anyway, thanks for the ideas. I deleted all the "standard assets" shader and scripts from those 2 packages then imported Scion and it compiles fine for now. I'll let my folks check out if we've hosed any of the prefabs from those packages we use or not.
     
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  32. Arkade

    Arkade

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    IIUC the IDs that Unity retains for files are what appear in the prefab files so, since they should be the same, I'd hope you'd be fine.

    It's a shame Unity doesn't have an integral dependency system (a la Maven) (ideally that can offer to purchase for-fee dependencies). Something like this would let asset publishers say ”my demo sub-package depends on standard asset pack (specifically the Bloom sub-package) version 6 or above”.

    Still, having implemented something like this for an enterprise system previously, I can say it's no small undertaking to do well. Hey Unity, you got a group of engineers twiddling their thumbs....? :p
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  33. Aieth

    Aieth

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    Yeah all this sounds like duplicate standard assets. I am unaware of a good way to solve it. There are essentially three ways you can do it as far as I know.
    1. Place standard assets into Scion/Demo/. Causes issues with duplicate entries (like this error)
    2. Place standard assets next to Scion so it ends up in the same directory. Works... sometimes, but in case user extracts to Root/MyAssetFolder/ you just created a second standard assets copy the user has no idea about and chaos ensues.
    3. Keep entire demo in a .zip file. My preferred solution but last I checked, note that this was over a year ago, the Asset guidelines said to avoid demos in zip files.

    So out of these options 1 is the lesser evil.
    Whenever I try new assets I usually import them into a completely new project and then copy everything but the demo folder into my main project.
     
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  34. Aieth

    Aieth

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    If you import without the Demo folder you should be good to go (or import the entire thing to a fresh project and then copy everything over except for the demo folder)
     
    hopeful likes this.
  35. jerotas

    jerotas

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    Aha! I will try that first.
     
  36. Arkade

    Arkade

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    Ditto. Only way to know which parts of an asset I want! (And not corrupt my projects!)
     
  37. Arkade

    Arkade

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    @Aieth do you have a feeling for which capabilities or settings reduce the performance of Scion? One I'm especially curious about is using it for tilt-shift / depth of field effects. I know these usually require blur convolutions/etc that can get quite expensive.

    Thanks for any thoughts!
     
  38. Aieth

    Aieth

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    A lot of the stuff is fairly binary, like exposure and all that. Depth of Field is the one that varies a lot. There are a lot of optimizations built in and it will branch out of heavy execution to fast and cheap if it can. So essentially, the less "blur" the faster. In practice its often not that big of a deal though, as the cases where you end up with a lot of blur (looking closely at something or whole foreground covered etc) are not usually action sequences, but looking around or a cinematic.
     
  39. bakanekofr

    bakanekofr

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    @Aieth:

    Is it possible with Scion to achieve disc blur like de-focus, such as the particles on this screenshot?
    This is using the old depth of field standard image effects from Unity.

     
  40. Tethys

    Tethys

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    We also had errors and a mess when trying to import the scion package directly into our project. That is because the Scion package has a ton of non-scion stuff. If you have some of these items already in your project, they get overwritten, broken, etc... The only way for us to import Scion nowadays is to import Scion into a clean project, remove everything not in the scion folder and then repackage it and import it into your project. This makes it so you only get the Scion stuff, therefore avoiding potential conflicts with other assets.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  41. TeagansDad

    TeagansDad

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    @Tethys, you can also just de-select the items you don't want when the Import Unity Package window opens up. Reviewing all of the contents of an asset pack in this window before clicking the "Import" button is an excellent habit to develop, regardless of which asset you're importing.
     
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  42. blackbird

    blackbird

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    does the new update give a better performence ?
     
  43. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    Hi.

    I do have a big issue with the bloom feature. It makes everything look blurry, like if I was wearing dirty glasses and when I try to play with the settings the only progress is on the bright area. It's like the bloom threshold value is negative and Scion PP is blurring everything except my bright light sources.

    It's "okay" in daylight, except there is no bloom to terrible in darker environment.

    Note that I just installed the Package and the issue is present with the factory settings.

    Has anyone encountered that problem?

    2016-06-21 22_03_41-.jpg 2016-06-21 22_04_20-.png

    2016-06-21 22_02_37-.jpg 2016-06-21 22_03_17-.jpg
     
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  44. Martin_H

    Martin_H

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    I didn't test the just released updated version yet, but I know what you mean. Check back a few pages in this thread, I think I posted some changes I made in regards to how the bloom works, that might fix the blurryness.
     
    Marc-Saubion likes this.
  45. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    Thanks for the advice Martin. I meanwhile found the issue: my light sources where too poor for the bloom to work properly. I multiplied my lights and emissive material intensities and have now good results.

    My sun has now an intensity of 4 instead of 1 if anybody need a starting value.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  46. Aieth

    Aieth

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    I implemented similar changes in the new version. It is essentially thresholding.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  47. LiamCullen

    LiamCullen

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    Hello! I updated to the latest version of Scion yesterday and it seems that having Depth of Field active now flips the camera upside down. Is this a known issue? I've not had the problem with previous versions and have reverted back for the time being.
     
  48. blackbird

    blackbird

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    can somebody explain what thresholding is which is better a higher value or lower which can affect more the performence ?
     
  49. Aieth

    Aieth

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    Could I get you to try and change line 822 in ScionPostProcessBase.cs to
    Code (CSharp):
    1. if (unityCamera.actualRenderingPath == RenderingPath.Forward && QualitySettings.antiAliasing > 0 && unityCamera.hdr == false) forwardMSAAFix = 1.0f;
    You can also comment the line out, in which case everything would return to how it was the previous version (I would still want to know what happens if you swap out the code though!)

    It does not affect the performance at all.
     
    Martin_H likes this.
  50. Marc-Saubion

    Marc-Saubion

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    I'm back with the previous issue. I managed getting around by using bigger light intensities but I'm now working on lower values by nature for a night vision.

    Here is my normal view with light and with just a candle.
    unity-night-vision-bloom-01.jpg unity-night-vision-bloom-02.jpg

    And here is the nigh vision, with bloom and without.
    unity-night-vision-bloom-03.jpg unity-night-vision-bloom-04.jpg

    As you can see the bloom mask seem reversed on low values.