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Scene Visibility Tools - Info and Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'World Building' started by gabrielw_unity, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. pavelkouril

    pavelkouril

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    Will the public API include the events for visualisation state changes? That would help with querying the tens of thousands of objects. :)
     
  2. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    That seems reasonable, but I can't guarantee anything for now. We'll definitely reach out to devs as we start developing that API. Sorry I can't give any real useful info yet!
     
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  3. Player7

    Player7

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    Don't listen to him, it is better how it right now.. too much of this flat color everything must look the same and barely stand out nonsense going on. Bad enough the new gui is flat and has zero gradients to distinguish areas. and provide some actual style to the gui. Would even make that area a horizontal gradient (left current darkness > to right current brightness) :)

    Although I do agree that compared to Qhierarchy it's not really adding much for the space it is taking up, and I doubt will ever have anything like that in customization for options..
     
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  4. Roni92pl

    Roni92pl

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    Good idea, I wrote renderers switcher like this for tool I use in like two hours.
     
  5. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    ok don't listen, but also don't complain if the editor becomes an inconsistent looking experience. I'm trying to see what benefits the background has and I could not find any that made sense. the reason it's there is so that the eye icons are not shows when they are active have a place, but this could be solved in other ways like for example how its done in photoshop:

    image.png
     
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  6. Player7

    Player7

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    Given what was shown on this change, and what you suggested in making it even more flat color based, I'd rather go with what was put forward. If something entirely better could be done that would be great, but Unity tend to put something up and then just convince themselves everyone is ok with it and that's what they go with, to hell with feedback or providing options... also photoshop has some grid lines to break up the monotone crap going on with that entire interface I'd hardly call the newish flat color photoshop interface great though.. its pretty lame and I don't even consider photoshop all that good.. moved onto Krita its free, hell even a 10 year version of photoshop is good for most things, the fact it's interface is flat color S*** now with zero style, zero gradients and no improvements to ux and ton of other areas that could have been done in the years/decades that never actually get improvement is just I guess the fact most of its users accepting idiots who don't bother letting Adobe know.
     
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  7. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    actually share your opinion about the flat trend being a bit too boring, For example I liked final cut better when it had the old interace, the new one is too flat, and they added puple highlight colors while the rest of the os uses blue for that.


    My arguments are for consisency, that for every change do it everywhere, or not at all.
     
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  8. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    I have one request and I don't know where to file it so let's try here,
    because here we are working on editor improvements
    This blue focus line, its there a way to make this optional ?
    I don't need it and it's now forced on me. I really like how clean the old unity looks, and this blue line for me just a distraction, I have been able to live without it for many years.

    For me its like the apple home bar on iPhone X, its always on. but once you know where you need to be you don't need to see it anymore. and unity has so many panels that I don't need to have focus on one. I use many at the same time.

    Screen Shot 2019-01-18 at 17.15.08.png
     
  9. 5argon

    5argon

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    Is it intentional that SceneVis for isolated prefab mode is not saved after exiting and enter the same prefab again? I think it would be great if it remember the visibility I have set when working on a prefab.

    Maybe a new thread and not here, because it is not really related to SceneVis. Also the expandable tab and blue line was added in 2018.3 IIRC, so not really alpha related either. So maybe other sub-forum.
     
  10. indieDoroid

    indieDoroid

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    @gabrielw_unity This is amazing! Just when I was wondering if Unity would make a tool officially. I've been using Isoliationist for over 3 years now (Asset store download), but it's been a bit inconsistent with 2018.3.

    So I'm happy you guys are making an even more powerful tool! :) :) Thanks!

    I have a question though. Will there be an ability to "Freeze" or "Disable" the gameobject from selection, but still allow it to be visible on screen? Perhaps in an Xray mode? An example use case would be freezing collision boxes from selection, while we place\ tweak artwork game objects, on top of the collision boxes.

    Thanks again! Looking forward to the further development of SceneVis!!! :)
     
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  11. laurentlavigne

    laurentlavigne

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    The extra column to the left is making narrow layouts difficult, could you have that column optional or autohide when it's not being used?
     
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  12. 5argon

    5argon

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    I remembered one thing I wanted.

    Visible in the scene but not selectable. The current selection lock by layer feels clunky, as it does not reflect the real intention of layers. For example in my UI I have a very big glow image for effects. I would always have to click through that one before actually selecting what I want. What I do now is assigning all the problematic object (which is either very big or just an empty rect) a layer called "BigOrEmpty" and that has selection turned off in the top right corner. But ideally those objects would still want to be in the "UI" layer. I think we need an another selectable/not selectable toggle somewhere similar to SceneVis.
     
  13. Lars-Steenhoff

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    Yes this is needed, have a look at blender and Maya for any hints
     
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  14. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Isolated Prefab mode: Sorry, can you list out exact steps and what you would expect/prefer to be the result? For my part, our think was this: "Isolate" should only be a temporary change of visibility, never something that sticks around. This might not be perfect for all cases, but it is at least a solid rule that users could trust, and not be confused when things change unexpectedly.

    Thanks, that's great to hear! About "Freeze/Lock/Disable" - yes, we have a working (internal) version already, it's just a matter of "how should this really work?" and "where do we put the UI/etc?". Moving forward on it ASAP, it's a natural second step and very much needed.

    Nothing for sure, but my (several others) current hope is to have completely user-configurable columns in the Hierarchy :) We know that some people will want zero columns, some 3, and some 27 :D All should be possible.

    Yep! Same as my reply to indieDoroid above, this "Lock" functionality is already working internally, just deciding how it should work and look in a final product. Much of that will be decided by how this SceneVis work turns out. Thanks for the feedback!
     
  15. laurentlavigne

    laurentlavigne

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    Oh nice !!!
    Then you'll run into teams getting confused by objects not showing, color coding to the rescue!
     
  16. KMacro

    KMacro

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    Clicking in the Scene Visibility column next to the scene itself hides everything in the scene, but clicking again does not make everything visible. Is this intended behavior?
     
  17. ForbiddenDonut99

    ForbiddenDonut99

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    Having this same issue. You can add every object in the scene to the visibility toggle group but removing all of them as to be done individually - which kinda sucks.
     
  18. Hyp-X

    Hyp-X

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    I have the same issue in Unity 2019.1.0b1 - maybe it's a recent problem.

    Alt+click works for some simple scenes, but for most scenes I have to open the scene in hierarchy and Alt+click the game objects one-by-one to unhide everything.
     
  19. pvloon

    pvloon

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    Same problem here - not sure if it's new to the beta - sure is annoying
     
  20. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Hi! About the "toggle vis of entire scene" - we've dealt with this one before, must have popped back in and I completely missed it when testing, sorry everyone! We'll have that re-fixed ASAP :)
     
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  21. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    Yea but Maya had things working in the first iterations and working well, its just after autodesk bought them that the program did not evolve much anymore. the work that alias wavefront did was great.
     
  22. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Hi Shorely! :)

    I'll try to address each item:

    I'm a heavy 3DS Max user, so that's at least subconsciously a major inspiration. Similar to how 3DS Max works, hiding a parent object does not hide it's children automatically, and we also have an "Isolate" feature.

    Photoshop was considered, but it's a much different context- layers and groups that always affect children, vs a hierarchy that only affects transform of children, but the children otherwise very much separate objects, and therefore should not be forced to hidden, locked, etc just because the parent is hidden/etc.

    Regarding the "epic" break, that's a bug in an older version, sorry for the trouble- upgrade to B2 and you should be fine, but please let me know if you still have trouble :)

    Isolation and vis state recall: unless I misunderstand you, those are already implemented here?

    Selection Sets: yep, that's a big focus of mine, also very much inspired by 3DS Max. It'll happen.
     
  23. eizenhorn

    eizenhorn

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    But if you remember default unity approach - if you disable parent object, all childs disables to :) I mean not enable/disable checkbox, but just logic of how it works/looks, and now scene tools works different ;) And for old Unity developers this tools works not how they expect, and how it works before, because in "good, old days" pure hierarchy window being our Scene Visibility Tools :) Just thinking out loud :)
     
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  24. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Hi eizenhorn, thanks for the feedback!

    The reason we didn't follow the enable/disable logic is that SceneVis needs to function differently. It is impossible for a deactivated parent to have active children, however (via SceneVis) a hidden parent needs the ability to have visible children. However, we definitely feel the logic-gap here...it was a problem for us too. Posting an update in a sec-
     
  25. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Update!

    As mentioned in the original post, we were very much on the fence about "does hiding a parent hide the children?". There are two components to this:

    1) Does a hidden parent FORCE children to be hidden, similar to Enable/Disable?

    Our continued answer: no, granular per-object vis control is important.

    2) Should the default "Hide/Show" action, when applied to a parent object, also affect children?

    Our changed answer: yes! This just feels more natural. Toggle visibility on a parent, and it's children will match. (Note: you can still toggle individual children back to visible, per item 1 above).

    Additionally, there has been lots of feedback that "Isolation" is best used as a quick-swap toggle. So, a single shortcut to enter/exit Isolation, no more "tunneling" deeper into Isolation with each press. This makes it much faster to isolate some objects, edit, then pop back out to viewing the scene.

    Keyboard shortcuts: we've settled on "G" for Hide/Show, and "SHIFT G" for Toggle Isolation. (H was taken, and G is closer to index finger anyway, better for quick usage). Note that this is a contextual shortcut, for Scene and Hierarchy windows, so it will not conflict with other existing contextual uses.

    These changes will be landing in a future beta, will post an update here when that happens.
     
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  26. Lars-Steenhoff

    Lars-Steenhoff

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    Will this become a package in the package manager and if no why not?
     
  27. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    It requires changes to trunk, so no cannot be a package. However, we'd like this to change in the future.
     
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  28. Prodigga

    Prodigga

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    Hey there!

    We have some code that places objects around our scene procedurally, and then those objects are hidden and locked in the hierarchy using hide flags so that our tools are in complete control over the generated objects. But now these objects will remain visible even if we hide the entire hierarchy (alt+click)

    Before hiding, after hiding:
    upload_2019-2-7_10-36-47.png upload_2019-2-7_10-37-0.png
     
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  29. Ofx360

    Ofx360

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    Thank you! This is perfect

    I was coming here to suggest this behavior as default.

    (Alt-Click should be single 'Hide/Show', of course)
     
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  30. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Hi! By "...now" do you mean as of the 19.1 alpha/beta with SceneVis? It sounds like there might be a conflict between hide flags and SceneVis. Could you file a bug (Help > Report a Bug) with the exact steps and info? Thanks very much!
     
  31. Prodigga

    Prodigga

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    Hi sorry for the slow reply. "Now" was a wrong choice of word. It just never worked with the scene vis tools.
     
  32. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    BUG: can toggle first multi scene vis on per-scene but cannot toggle off. Other scenes in the list act normally...
    upload_2019-2-24_16-35-37.png

    In this scenario, engine could be toggled on:
    upload_2019-2-24_16-36-2.png

    But to toggle the first SCENE vis again, I can't do it unless I go and individually toggle each gameobject inside. Please fix!
     
  33. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    REQUEST (workflow improvement)
    Also while I am here please add the ability to hold down the mouse button and drag-toggle, so it saves lots and lots and lots of clicking...........


    You know just paint the toggle by moving up and down the eyes while holding the mouse button down. Save a lot of effort.
     
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  34. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    @hippocoder : bug is known and fixed in latest (coming soon!), click-dragging to set is being considered for 19.2 :)
     
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  35. Rallix

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    By the way, what do you think about the position of transform tool handles when children of an object are hidden in "Center" mode (also the behaviour of double-click/F "Frame Selected"). Should they change too, or still account for invisible parts as they do now?

    E.g. when you have a canvas under an object:

    Visibility.png

    In pivot mode, the handle is at the character's feet, but in 'center' mode, it accounts for things which aren't currently visible.

    If it moved to the center of currently visible objects, I could see it could be helpful in certain scenarios.
    For example in the character/canvas scenario above, or when you want to move the position of a group of objects based on a small part of it (e.g. move a large town based on the position of the town hall, or place a sword based on its hilt, or move two unrelated objects with large hidden parts as a one-time-only transformation).

    Vis.png

    This could probably be done by creating a temporary empty object at the 'new center' spot, placing everything under it, moving it, taking the children out and deleting the temporary object (which is even more complicated if the root object is a prefab), but I'd say it would feel more natural if the transform handles moved to the current, visible center.

    What do you think?
     
  36. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Actually, could you create a separate thread to discuss this? This thread is focusing on Scene Vis. Thanks!
     
  37. Rallix

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    That's what I thought was referring to – I'm sorry, I should have shown a better picture.

    What I meant to say – when the objects are visible, the 'Center' mode places the transform handles to the center between all the child objects.

    Handle.png

    But what if they are hidden? Or an object is isolated?

    Invisible.png

    Isolate.png

    Should the tool handle remain at the original center (taking hidden objects into consideration), or move to the center of all the currently visible objects?
     
  38. Prodigga

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    You are still technically moving the hidden ones though, since you are moving around the parent. If it centred only on the visible elements it might be more confusing since it'd look like its suggesting that only that visible rock will be moved when infact they all are.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  39. Rallix

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    I guess. I don't have a particular preference here, since what you said could legitimately be a bit confusing, although this came to my mind when I was fiddling with "cavern exit" in isolation (pivot was at the entrance), and the center was in the middle of the cave, so I had to zoom out and back in a couple of times to find the handle.
    Not to mention the canvas on the player character thing.
     
  40. Prodigga

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    Yes that does seem kind of annoying, I am not sure whether what I said would actually be confusing in practice or which way is better or worse. :)
     
  41. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Hey! Thanks, these are good points to consider!

    We do have some concepts where hidden items, if selected, would show a "ghost" version, or a special colored outline, etc. It will be important to notify users "Hey, danger! You've got stuff selected that you might not see!"

    For the handle position, I do think keeping "Center", erm... "centered" between even hidden items is best, since (as pointed out above) you will still be affecting those hidden items. That will be much more obvious when/if we add that "ghost" to hidden-selection :)
     
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  42. hippocoder

    hippocoder

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    I think really, a lot of the concerns will turn out to be unfounded. It's not as if people didn't quickly realise they had gameobjects deactivated in scene previously when doing this sort of thing. It's a pain that only happens once so I doubt you need to put that sort of visualisation on the fast track, and if you did, I'd humbly request it be optional.
     
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  43. 5argon

    5argon

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    The first time I touch the feature I thought it doesn't work. It is very counterintuitive that clicking the parent vis hides only the parent object (where 80% in my game is just an empty wrapper)
     
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  44. gabrielw_unity

    gabrielw_unity

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    Yep, this is the new functionality.

    We're providing default shortcuts for Toggle Visibility (selected + children), and Toggle Isolation (selected + children), via the new Shortcut Manager. Those will of course be editable, and you can set shortcuts for the other items you mentioned, also :)
     
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  45. Lars-Steenhoff

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    Can I have the wall of icons please. It would be nice if I can decide if I want to see them always or hidden.
    Please make this an option in the preferences.
    Thanks
     
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  46. Rallix

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    This happens to me in several scenes even with a single scene opened, so it's probably a matter of what's inside the scene, unless it's a different bug althogether. I can hide everything, but not show it again, only one-by-one (beta #5).
    It looks like it only happens in scenes with my player character; if I delete him – or more specifically, the decals attached to him – it starts working again.

    Thanks for the reply, I probably agree. Does the same apply to double click / focus, though? Going with the character+canvas example from above, zooming in on the player character in my game means expanding three levels of hierarchy to exclude canvas and camera from the "focus", even though they're hidden.
    By the way, as hippocoder, I also don't think there's a need for the ghost effect, because the 'eye' icon already tells you there's something hidden and there's wouldn't be a point to the scene visibility tools if they could only hide objects partially (the point is to be able to edit objects free from clutter, right?).

    And did you consider whether the visibility setting should persist with prefabs?
    For example, we were working on a board game with a game board consisting of 50 squares with some helper objects underneath which, however, cluttered the scene view. That's too much to hide one-by-one, so in that case, setting active/inactive (and reactivating before entering playmode) was still the more comfortable option.
    Since Photoshop was mentioned here a couple of times – in PS, duplicating a group (or a smart object) which has some of its members hidden does apply its visibility settings on the copy as well.
     
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  47. Artaani

    Artaani

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    I am really love Unity and your attempts to constantly improve it, but...
    This new column looks terrible.

    Seems like you are not only ignored our suggestions, but also made a situation even worse.
    Everyone showing you an examples of customable appearance!

    Please give us a possibility to hide this UI elements which creates visual garbage!
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  48. Lars-Steenhoff

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    Agreed, we need to be able to make it our own.
     
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  49. richrdhw

    richrdhw

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    What if we keep the bar from first edition
    and make the lock icon that:
    >click once = lock
    >hold click drag left = freeze
    >hold click drag right = disable
    > click second time = always enable

    on top of that,
    >hold drag up/down = all lock
    >hold drag left then up/down = all freeze
    >hold drag right then up/down = all disable
    >hold drag up/down on not enable = all enable
     
  50. esc_marcin

    esc_marcin

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    This feature doesn't currently work well with SubScenes when using the new entity workflows.
    For example when using isolation mode in MegaCity on a part of a building it will hide all other parts of that city section subscene but everything else in the world continues to render.

    Will this be fixed?