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Question Scene View - Overdraw mode accurate?

Discussion in 'General Graphics' started by Unifikation, Jun 15, 2023.

  1. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    The Unlit Particle Shader doesn't, according to the Overdraw mode of the Scene View, generate any overdraw upon itself. In other words, 100 particles all overlapping from a single system using this shader, do their somewhat correct additive blending, but don't show up as having been creating Overdraw.

    Conversely, the older Legacy Particles Additive Shader used in the same manner does indicate in the Overdraw made as having each particle being an overdraw on each it overlaps with.

    Is this accurate? If so, what's so special about the Unlit Particle Shader that it can do Additive blending without creating overdraw?
     
  2. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

    Unity Technologies

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    No, it's not accurate. It will be creating overdraw, if there are multiple overlapping transparent particles. I just suppose we are not correctly reporting it in the Overdraw mode of the scene view. I'm not sure why that would be...
     
  3. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    This problem/bug/issue is throughout all version between 2018 and now. Have checked.

    Do you happen to know which is the most performant shader for additive blending of particles with Shuriken?
     
  4. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    If you report a bug via Help/Report a Bug in the Editor, we will review it.

    We recommend the Stardard Particle Unlit Shader for unlit particles, because of its good mix of features and performance. However, if you are looking for pure performance, the legacy additive particle shader is probably faster. However, probably the fill-rate (overdraw) is the limiting factor in both cases, which is unavoidable.

    A simple test is to create a particle system with 1 shader, enable vsync, and increase the spawn rate until the fps drops below, for example, 60fps. Note down how many particles you got. Then repeat the test with the other shader. Try to use a fixed random seed on the system, and anything else you can do to improve the consistency between the runs.
     
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  5. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    Why do I need to create a bug report for something so obviously wrong? Anyone can check it, anytime, in any version.
     
  6. richardkettlewell

    richardkettlewell

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    Some reasons off the top of my head.. there are more, I'm sure:
    • Because the forums are not a good task management tool, your post will get lost in the noise almost immediately, and forgotten about. Our bug reporting process feeds into our task management and prioritization systems/tools
    • Just because you think it's obvious and easy, doesn't mean it is. Unity is a complex product, and there may be something subtle about your setup that you've overlooked. If we have your bug report we have all the info about your setup
    • Just because I'm talking to you about it doesn't mean I would be fixing it or know who would be. Our bug reporting process helps it find its way to the correct team

    I get that it can be frustrating and time consuming to go through this process to submit a bug, and it's totally up to you if you do choose to submit a bug about it.
     
  7. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    These all sound like Unity management problems, not me problems.

    I strongly suggest you and all other proactive, customer and user focused staff get together and lobby your management to create budgets for logical, sensible and considered processes to care for customer and user experiences. Someone needs to point to the thousands of issues that aren't specifically bugs, but are more general, to prioritise and fix both these general issues and consider all low hanging fruit problems and possible improvements, and all manner of performance, optimisations, glitches and user experience annoyances.

    We, the users, are not able to generate any momentum within Unity management, and it certainly seems as though there's practices and processes in place to ensure that that's the case.
     
  8. Ben_at_Work

    Ben_at_Work

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    While it's true that posts may get washed away over time, the forum is still an extremely valuable tool for discovering potential bugs and suggestions. Users are inclined to present whatever information they can and, if needed, you can place burdens on them to provide even more testing for free.

    The main issue with asking users themselves to go a step further and directly submit bug reports are:
    1. Users can only present what they know. Their understandings, ability to explain, and standards for what is important are all vastly different. There's no consistency or reliability. If I can't tell whether I've found a bug, a misuse, or a gap in my knowledge, I can't really submit it.
    2. Training every single user to know how to effectively submit bugs is far less efficient than training a few super-users or devs to distill the more important parts (in the context of forum posts).
    3. Anyone who uses the forums has encountered dead-end issues tracing back nearly a decade through necroed threads, creating a strong disincentive to bother submitting anything.
    There's plenty more nuance to it, and having reasons for or against doesn't override the top-level priorities Unity has decided on or whether the submission process requires one flow over another. It is what it is.
     
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  9. Unifikation

    Unifikation

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    Further to this "bug", ANY object that uses a material using the Particle Standard Unlit shader shows no geometry when in "Shaded Wireframe" mode of the Scene View.

    interestingly, from the Gizmos dropdown menu, this does not impact the Selection Outline, that still works, but from the same menu, "Selection Wire" does not work.

    Scene View Wireframe mode does not exhibit this problem. It shows all the wireframes.

    But does also affect "render selection wireframe", which can be set via shortcuts.

    Interestingly, there's still no default shortcut for editing shortcut keys.

    Nor a delete option immediately within the shortcuts panels for each shortcut. Like the "x" that's used in all text entry boxes to clear there contents. That'd be nice. Probably needs a bug report to be considered, though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2023