Scammer section in the forum + A name of a scammer

Hello all,
i was wondering if there is a section for scammers so people like myself can alert others from dealing with them in the future if there isn't such section then maybe we should start one?

I created a post in the Job Offering section looking for developer to help me with my game, he approached me via email and took a first payment and disappeared also hes a member on the forum.



Just in case, people should know not to deal with him and discredit his work and fake skills in the industry.

Thanks.

 

Hmmm, maybe they've reaped an e-mail list from the forums too because I had in my junk folder this morning fake email from a fake .co.uk address.

And I know they didn't crack my forum password.

 

There are tons of fake classifieds, scams and people who lie about their skillset, wasting your time and finally delivering garbage.

Use word of mouth references. Ask other developers. Require references from the person if you don't have any dev's to ask.

 

I tried the commercial section as a freelancer for a little while. Filtering out noise is rough going. I ended up giving up pretty quickly. Making the section work or you requires a heavy amount of due diligence.

In the end you need to get a reference from someone they have worked with who is an active forum participant. Or use someone local that you can meet face to face.

 

The reason there isn´t a section like that is because you would force a Unity moderator to become judge and jury of a private business deal. There would also be the argument of who determines what is a scammer. I recently participated in a thread where I outed someone I thought had scammed people out of $100,000... and the scammer got plenty of sympathy and ´well he did try...´ type comments. Who is going to determine if I am able to post a thread about him in your ´scammer section´? Again, you are putting a lot of responsibility on the Unity Mods.

Not to be rude, but you need to be a little smarter. You sent money to a stranger, apparently who gave no references based on a reply on a forum. Did you do your due diligence and investigate him beforehand? Did you ask for references? Did you make sure the transaction was a paypal business transaction so you could demand a refund within 90 days?

I am not saying you are at fault, or that he is innocent.. but there is no way Unity is going to step into the middle of every transaction that happens on the help wanted forums. It might even open them up to some legal issues.

 

I would agree with this. I would never use the help wanted section. It is MUCH MUCH better to contact some of the more popular guys on the Unity Asset store and ask them if they do freelance work. Two examples from me.

I contacted a popular artist on the forum and asked him to do a small project for me. He gave me a huge discount on what I was expecting to pay because I gave him permission to sell the items on the asset store.

Another artist i contacted about a project actually thanked me for the idea, added the project to the store, and I just bought it like a normal asset, even though it was made specifically for me.

 

Thanks all for the replies.

First of all my post was about the idea of having a section so people would educate others about names and possible scammers, its not my first time hiring freelancers i had many successful hires and completion out of people reaching me before. And i did some research before hand and didn't find anything wrong at first, also i do like couple of skype calls and ask different type of questions to make sure + NDA signing..etc..etc. Also i managed to get my money back after contacting Paypal so that's great.

I understand the trouble and the headache of opening such section but maybe a pinned thread pr something you know so people like me can double check before wasting their time looking them up over the internet and defiantly not wanting Unity or anyone to step in i already handled my issue its just again a way to spread the word and for others not to fall for it.

Thanks.

 

Glad to hear you got your money back.. What I was getting at is that if Unity did create a special section or pinned a thread, then that in itself would put some responsibility on them to moderate it as such. I am actually surprised Unity lets us even name-shame people at all, most forums you get deleted as soon as you call someone out for something, because it would mostly just turn into he said, she said type arguments and it would never end.

 

Even if you add a list of scammers, after they are done with you they will create a new identity and keep on scamming.
you will waste time chasing a ghost.

 

I'm betting that the trick here is to lurk on the forums, join the community and learn the names and faces before I take a punt. Seems we already have a means of separating the wheat from the chaff, just got to put in the time

 

This is why there needs to be a proper social network for game developement where people "level up" and earn clout through finishing virtual classes, collaborating on projects, and releasing products.

Can't fake that.

 

Neat idea, but very hard to measure or verify. Just look at KS the past year, it seems like anyone who ever mopped a floor at UO or EQ is now doing a KS and citing their ´work experience with UO´ . A guy who was an entry level QA person for a few months can use that as justification for a 300k KS.

It would be a neat project for you to do, but I imagine it would overall be about as accurate as the original ´Clout´

 

What's UO, or EQ?

 

prolly Ultima Online and Everquest

 

I thought of that too. But I didn't know you can work there. Did I miss something? I'm confused

 

Dunno to be honest, but I think, coming back to the point a bit, that looking at you guys - Nipoco and Not_Sure - I can learn so much just from your profile pages from join date, number of post and 'likes' to what you've said in those 1000+ posts. I might not be the best judge of character but I think I stand a better chance of understanding who you are this way than watching a dispute playing out in a name-and-shame thread. How quick would that need to be locked! Those things tend to be troll bait imo.

I do agree that 'gamifying' the system a little more couldn't hurt but I think that it would be encouragement for the awesome Unity brains on the forum to get more involved and do a little self promotion as well as have a little fun. As a contest that might be fun but then when would we get anything done lol. I don't think, as Lanefox and Mrbdrm said it will do anything to reduce risks taken on an unknown freelancer responding to an advert you've placed.

In my experience, when hiring designers and artists that you have not worked with before its often worth paying a small deposit (if necessary) for concepting ahead of commissioning production-quality work. This also makes you work iteratively on a specification for the work until everyone is on the same page before real money changes hands or vast amounts of time are committed to vaporware.

 

The other side to this is the people posting there. I talked with one group today who had 500 animations, 60 sets of assets(sets..not single objects), wanted AI, Pathfinding, behavior trees. I was asked my rates after getting glowing reviews on my CV from them. I told them I should charge alot more but come cheap due to the economy sucking and quoted 200 bucks a day. Less for long term. I was informed the entire budget for everything was 200 bucks. There should be some kind of stricture on these kinds of postings. At least some guidelines on monetarily respecting the talent they seek. They are mercenary and lop sided regardless of the innocent intent of the posters. Literally these folks were paying less than a buck to set up each character or asset with AI, A*Star pathfinding, behavior trees and mecanim. I would go flip burgers if I wasn't too old and entrenched

 

Yeah, I was looking for work as a freelancer, rather then paying someone to work. I ended up with someone wanting me to complete a homework assignment and test for them. An infinite procedural terrain system where the client just disappeared halfway through production. A PhD student with a grant proposal that wasn't yet funded. And I lost count of how many people suddenly stopped contacting me once I mentioned a rate. It would be much nicer if people simply said 'No, you are too expensive,' rather then radio silence.

The only successful project that I've worked on as a freelancer from the forums is one where another established user reached out to me. We were both active forum participants, and he'd noted that my skills lined up to the needs for his current project. He also offered to pay at a decent rate.

Occasionally I've considered getting together some funds and picking up a freelance artist. I would probably take the same approach. Quietly poke around the forums and see who is currently looking for work. Check out peoples portfolios from their signatures and post history. And then send off a couple of private messages. No commercial section threads involved.

It seems to me like the main reason the commercial section exists is to keep the noise threads out of the discussion forum.

 

This industry is getting overloaded with poseurs and mercenaries. It is the same BS everywhere. Give me lots of S*** that takes lots of time and get offered less than US minimum wage. There are also a whole bevy of business types looking to cash in that have no idea how long anything takes. I am being held financial hostage by one right now. Apparently I am supposed to work for the world's highest paid celebrity for peanuts and work with no food and rent behind. When asking to get paid I have been told he was tired of me begging for money.. Begging? I started off at 30 bucks an hour on a fixed price estimate and was whittled down to maybe 5 by "simply just add this and I will send you your next payment" and said no more free work..I don't care who you are trying to impress with it. I have had to hold the source code hostage and put my foot down. Of course that is viewed as me being belligerent.. He is going to try to starve me out but I sold his frikking scripts this afternoon for 250 bucks to make sure my cockatoo and I have food. I have a size ten cowboy boot and it knows just where it needs to be planted.

 

Yeah, the worst thing for me about private work is shifting goal posts. You work with the client to create a spec, make everything to brief, get it signed off in stages and then get asked to change it all up at the last. The idea that going back to the drawing board after days of work is a separate job tends not to go well so you end up putting in so much free work for the reference that its not cool.

That said, working in salaried job and doing a bit of freelancing on the side nothing is more annoying than working with agencies because the business types are familiar with their brands. Being part of the negotiation and seeing the agency invoices teaches you that your work is always viewed to worth about 10% of what you would pay an agency for the same bloody thing (esp if you're required to lay the foundation and/or tidy it up) because of how independents are perceived. Certainly in art the ongoing cost of software, equipment and training is phenomenal before you put pen to screen, not to mention the investment of time but hey, I have regular money coming in and I'm still paying my dues so maybe that will ease up.

I'm a big fan of deposits, they really do go some way to keeping your customer honest as you have something to walk away with in the event of a parting of ways - certainly most agencies require them. Once they have put down a deposit, if they're happy with the work they're usually more open to negotiation which can expose other requirements and lead to more work, a happy cycle.

If you're totally freelance its also worth speaking to the bank about what sort of trade credit that they could provide you with, that way you can give your customers terms like 30 days making them more inclined to bite and if they don't cough up the trade is insured and you still get paid.

Working with 'monied' people has taught me that they just don't understand that us plebs can't afford to speculate or go a month without generating any money - I learned this lesson the hard way and am still paying for it several years on... Deposit from the rich, every time lol!

 

definitely, you can see that on freelancer dot com for example..
hiring a good freelancer is as hard as being hired by a good team.

 

This.. I have worked across all media and venues in my 35+ years arts career. Mom and pop business pay me promptly and some have apologized for being an hour later than they said the deposit would come. Legitimate small businessmen looking to a solid future have always paid me on time. Money guys.. They have never been hungry and do not know how much it can hurt, deprive you of sleep and you certainly cannot produce top notch work with your gut growling in pain at you. I have had an Egyptian billionaire not pay me 1500 he owed me and left me with one chicken breast and a potato for Christmas with not a single present for my loved ones. I must have some guardian though as the clownage who used me up ended up having really bad luck. The Egyptian dude lost his billboard at the highest traffic location in the US, the building it was on condemned, two companies went bankrupt.. As I told him he would have bad luck if he did not pay me he had his secretary call me six months later (chickenshit) and get my bank coordinates.