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[RELEASED] Ultimate Character Controller (UFPS 2 / Third Person Controller 2)

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by opsive, May 29, 2018.

  1. roykoma

    roykoma

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    This is indeed interesting. I did not know of that agreement, and am really confused in how to interpret that. It could be that this just says you are not allowed to to as this:
    • "I will only fix this bug if you pay me 30$"
    But it could also mean that you are not allowed to charge for any updates.
    All over without further clearification this basically directly conflicts with the legal I linked to as in example follows:
    • Customers have no right for a refund - but the seller is forced to grant all refunds within a 2 week period.
    • Customers have no right for updates, upgrades or even support. But sellers are forced to supply the customers with (free) updates, upgrades and support, as long as the asset resides on the store.
    • Paid updates are not allowed, but on the same time the asset is granted "as is" and the sellers have the option to make paid updates (and never before in my knowledge stopped these from publishing)
    @opsive would you maybe ask the assetstore team for a clearification on this? I am sure you have a faster connection to them, as this directly influences your business.
    Regardless of the outcome I would glady pay the upgrade free (if needed on your store), but I think it would not be wrong to know the real intention of the assetstore legal team behind this.

    Greetings,
    Roy
     
  2. TeagansDad

    TeagansDad

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    From my perspective, it is reasonable to expect an asset developer to provide bug fixes and to update the asset to maintain compatibility with new versions of Unity, at no additional cost to the customer.

    It is not reasonable to expect an asset developer to do all of that plus continue to add significant new features on a regular basis, at no additional cost. That is not a sustainable business model, especially in a market as niche as game development. Let's face it, (most) Unity assets are ridiculously underpriced for what you're actually getting. An experienced programmer can easily earn $60-80 per hour (or more) doing contract work. The majority of Unity Assets can be purchased for roughly the cost of one hour of a programmer's time.

    Yet in the Unity development community, there seem to be a large number of users who expect professional-level quality and support, but are only willing to pay hobbyist-level prices -- or in many cases, 50% of a hobbyist-level price.
     
  3. opsive

    opsive

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    I'll see if I can get further clarification on the eulas and then let everyone know. Version 2 was started from a blank project so the 2 at the end is really just a marketing thing - it could be an entirely new asset without any upgrade at all. If you don't want to upgrade that's no problem - v1 of TPC/UFPS will still be supported for some time after the v2 release and will be updated to stay compatible with the latest Unity release. For everybody that chooses to upgrade both Sarah and I want to say thank you for your support and for making this business model sustainable.
     
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  4. opsive

    opsive

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    When we get the VR addon out TPC will be a perfect use case for this. I've mostly focused on a first person perspective for the VR addon so far but was planning on adding a third person camera view type similar to the games that you mentioned. If you have programming experience you'd be able to create the view type yourself right now (third person VR isn't as involved as first person VR), or you could wait until we are able to release the VR addon.
     
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  5. opsive

    opsive

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    Sorry I forgot to respond to your bottom questions. Right now combos with the same melee item are supported, and you could also have variable attack chains through a custom selector for the Animator Audio State Set. There are some additional melee improvements that we have planned for the first feature update so hopefully it won't take three years ;)
     
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  6. opsive

    opsive

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    We'll do some tweaking before the Asset Store release :) The spring system is very similar to the spring system in UFPS v1. @unicat - thank you for your purchase!
     
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  7. syscrusher

    syscrusher

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    I am absolutely onboard with buying the new version. The only reason I haven't already done so is that I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to get it directly from Opsive or wait until it's on the Asset Store. I'm probably going to go direct. It's honestly just a question of how I want to manage my own asset library locally. :)
     
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  8. Arganth

    Arganth

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    hmm can justin give the website customers a key to get the downloads from the asset store?
    just think its nice if all downloads come from the same place
     
  9. syscrusher

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    I don't speak for Justin or Sarah, but as an asset publisher I can address one aspect of this. It's a great idea in theory, but the Asset Store will only let each publisher issue 12 vouchers per year per asset. They do this to keep asset publishers from undercutting the Unity price and then using Unity's infrastructure for free. Since Unity's commission on assets is 30%, in theory a publisher could discount an asset 15% on their own web site, give the customer a voucher for downloading it from Unity, and pocket the 15% difference as additional profit. Unity ends up providing free infrastructure but making no money on the sale.
     
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  10. rasto61

    rasto61

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    But let's be honest. For the 30% they take they do not provide comparable services to other platforms that take a similar cut such as the app stores or steam.
     
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  11. syscrusher

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    I was just addressing the question of voucher count and why they enforce it; it could be a 10% cut and the publisher undercut it with a 5% discount, and the principle still applies. :)
     
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  12. opsive

    opsive

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    There has been a lot of questions about what is different between the various character controller versions and also how much it costs to upgrade so we put together these two charts. Hopefully it helps!

    UCCChart.png

    UCCUpgradeFlow.png
     
  13. IsntCo

    IsntCo

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    Hi Justin,

    Really excited about the new version but I have questions that maybe others have too if you can take the time to answer:

    1) Is the difference between UFPS 2 and TPC 2 compared to First Person Controller and Third Person Controller is that the former doesn't include Melee/Shield?

    I'm a bit confused by the intermediate step. I thought UFPS 2 and TPC 2 *was* the new version 2? What exactly is "First/Third person controller"?

    2) Is "Ultimate Character Controller" just a way to describe UFPS2/TPC2 combined? Or is it actually a separate asset?

    3) Is there a detailed feature list comparing V1 to V2? Based on your chart above, it looks like the only difference is Melee/Shield. I understand it's been totally rewritten and is more extendable and well written, but from an immediate customer benefit, what is the advantage of upgrading from V1 to V2? What new features are provided in V2? (Especially since some features that exist in V1 wont be in V2 without a paid addon)

    4) Is Playmaker integrated with V2? What PM actions will be or are available?

    5) Is Inventory Pro integrated?
     
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  14. EvilGremlin

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    This will help: https://opsive.com/solutions/character-solution/

    I'm sure Opsive will integrate Playmaker ASAP, if not already. And I'm sure devdog will integrate Inventory Pro ASAP. It would not surprise me if both were in the works right now.
     
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  15. opsive

    opsive

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    @roykoma & @imgumby -

    I heard back from Unity regarding section 9.1. The distinction is that since UFPS 2 is new asset, it will have a new ID and is treated as a new product so section 9.1 doesn't apply in this case. In addition, the publisher interface supports paid upgrades so this is definitely allowed on the Asset Store.
     
  16. roykoma

    roykoma

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    Thank you for checking!

    Another question: Is a kind of "grabbing" implemented? (think in the lines of whats possible with https://forum.unity.com/threads/third-person-character-engine-official-thread.545533/)
    If not: do you think that could be implemented easily through abilities?

    Greetings,
    Roy
     
  17. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Well "New" vs "Updated" seems up to interpretation as is any contractual term.I guess that big ole number "2" at the end of the name made all the difference to the UAS staff that does all the vetting of products and all the mentioned bug fixes made from UFPS1 to 2 were prescient in nature... also still miffed that new users get the update for free while longtime customers get the privilege of shelling out more money for the update...No matter..thanks again...i guess...
    So the above chart seems a little convoluted..I own both tpc1 and ufps1...does that mean an upgrade to UCC would cost me $60 or $120 ??
     
  18. Mister-D

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    well said
     
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  19. roykoma

    roykoma

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    If you have both TPC1 & UFPS1 that would be 122$ to upgrade to FPC2 & TPC2 (both of them together being the same as UCC) - being in the same situation, so thats my upgrade price to.
     
  20. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Well I guess all those updates from the other developers I received recently...some major and full of cool additions.....all are mistaken and I feel ashamed for taking advantage of them since they've never...not once... asked for a penny....I'm reporting myself to the authorities immediately ...
     
  21. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Soooo... if you paid full price for those of what, about $75 per...then for ~ a total of ~ $270 you get the UCC ?? fer crissake...o_O
     
  22. roykoma

    roykoma

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    Including 19% taxes it's a total of ~323$.
    Totally worth it for me (considering I actually use it one day, which I plan). From a business point of view thats still a steal, even if it would (which it wouldn't) only take me a week to make the character controller I want.
    For a week worth of work, event at the lowest kind of sallary (using germany as a reference) you would spent more than that. If you are skilled and maybe even in the usa, where you earn a literal S***load more (disregarding the higher doctors bills and stuff like that) that kind of money is barely worth one or two days of work.
     
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  23. LironIL

    LironIL

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    if i have third person controller 1 it will cost 57$?
    but you say it will be free:
     
  24. TeagansDad

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    You understand that this is an entirely new character controller, right? It's design is based on UFPS1 and TPC1, but the entire code base has been rewritten pretty much from scratch -- as evidenced by the fact that it has taken nearly two years of full-time work.

    Ultimate Character Controller is the new asset; the subset which contains only the first-person perspective is named UFPS 2, and the subset which contains only the third person perspective is named TPC 2. But those are in no way "updates" to the existing products. UFPS 2 is as much an update to UFPS 1 as Civilization II was to the original Civilization. I don't see how "new" vs "updated" is open to interpretation here. It's a brand new product in all of the ways that matter.
     
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  25. roykoma

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    I asked the same question - here is the answer:
    https://forum.unity.com/posts/3654745
     
  26. imgumby

    imgumby

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    TeagansDad
    well my comparison was for the update from UFPS 1 to UFPS 2....I realize that UCC is an entirely new asset that apparently combines the UFPS and TPC . I wouldn't mind an agreeable update fee to consolidate the two but if the figures above are anything near correct and it'll take another ~ $130 - $150 depending on exchange rates on top of the already $150 spent on the originals that seems steep.Particularly when new customers get it for ~ 1/2 that....I used to own a small business with hundreds of customers that I saw regularly.When my source started charging me more for the product I increased the prices for new customers..usually tried to hold off as long as possible for my long term or volume clients.Never did it occur to me to reverse that...give the discount to the new customers and stick it to my loyal long term or volume customers...but I suppose maybe that business model is just a relic...
    good luck and have fun........
     
  27. EvilGremlin

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    I just wanted to clarify that UFPS 2 is a big chunk of new code too. The Opsive forums have a fair amount of information about the development of these assets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  28. LironIL

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  29. opsive

    opsive

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    There is not a grab ability but UFPS has a mechanic similar to this in first person so I was planning on bringing it over eventually. Right now you can control the IK system from the ability system so it would take a new ability, but definitely doable. The Interact ability sets an IK hand target for the button so there's already a mini-example of it.
     
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  30. somosky

    somosky

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    Ok wow this is one very extensive asset. There is a lot going on in there haha. I'm having a blast tinkering around with it. Wondering how the video tutorials are going because I'm probably gonna need those and I think you mentioned you were doing a video using the FPS Weapons and animations asset some time this month?
     
  31. EvilGremlin

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    Yeah, I have taken to waiting for tutorials before I buy assets these days. Too many devs never produce enough. Fortunately, Opsive is always on top of it.
     
  32. opsive

    opsive

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    So far I've created the following (not edited yet):

    Setting up your project and scene
    Creating first person characters
    Creating third person characters
    Creating item types
    Adding a new first person item
    Adding a new third person item

    UFPS is going to be featured in Unity's Online User Group on September 26th (I can't find a link for it.. I'll ask if there is one and then let you know). For that I am creating a 20ish minute video showing UFPS in action and the plan is to setup the character using FPS Weapons. I'll also setup moving platforms and create an AI with Behavior Designer.

    Beyond that what videos would you like to see? So far I plan on doing topics on:

    Adding an ability
    State system
    Surface system
    Behavior Designer integration overview

    I know these are pretty general so far - is there anything else in particular that you'd like to see?
     
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  33. opsive

    opsive

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    The Ultimate Character Controller will be released on the Asset Store on September 18th!​

    AssetStoreRelease.png

    We have also figured out a way to apply upgrade discounts on the opsive store. This is a manual process so it's not instant but if you'd like to get it early please send your version 1 invoice to support@opsive.com.
     
  34. somosky

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    I haven't gotten far enough into it to know what I don't know yet but if I could make a suggestion on the tutorials I always appreciate the type of videos that show something being set up from scratch more than an explanation on what the components are and how they work. So an example video on adding a gun from scratch for example and a video showing how to add a melee weapon from scratch. That will take care of a lot of your questions on here as that's what 99% of what people are going to want to do right away.
     
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  35. opsive

    opsive

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    So far the videos that I've created have talked more about the generic setup process but it makes sense to do one specifically for shooter weapons and melee weapons. I've written it down! The online user group video will go through creating a project from scratch so that should be useful as well.

    ---

    We recently launched a discord channel for informal discussion. Feel free to join! https://discord.gg/QX6VFgc
     
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  36. EvilGremlin

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    @opsive

    For the generic ability I remember in the TPC tutorial video you coded it in C#. This is just a thought, but showing an ability set up with code and then a Bolt and/or Playmaker version could help attract some folks that would otherwise be intimidated by such a massive controller. I remember how frustrating it was to try and set up new abilities in UFPS without coding.
     
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  37. IsntCo

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    @EvilGremlin Thanks, but that link doesn't seem to describe the difference between UFPS/UTPC 1 vs 2, just overall features would seem to overlap entirely with V1.

    @opsive When you get a chance can you answer the above? Thanks!
     
  38. opsive

    opsive

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    Sure - I will be uploading the final v2 demo scene within the next few days so you'll be able to play with it, but basically every feature from version 1 of TPC/UFPS was improved upon for version 2. Some of the features are the same on paper, but they are now implemented in a much better way. You can also do a lot of cool new things (such as adjust gravity). You are correct in that UFPS doesn't include melee items - for version 2 we broke the feature set into 7 different assets and the chart above your original post explains what is in each of them.

    Playmaker/Inventory Pro integration won't be available at release but hopefully they'll be available shortly after.
     
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  39. Mark_01

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    I think I am getting it, the upgrades seem confusing, lest to me. This is almost 2 upgrades at once ?
    the first is to upgrade to version 2 .. then the next to get a combination is to Ultimate ?

    Say I wanted swords and bows and magic ... with FPS and 3rd person options ... What would I get ..
    assuming that I own all the old V1 versions ?
     
  40. AlienMe

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    @opsive, Justin, you mentioned earlier that TPC v1 would still be maintained.. For how long? And will TPC v1 remain in the Asset Store (thinking about how the updates will be distributed after Sept 18).
     
  41. opsive

    opsive

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    We don't have any magic items included in version 2 yet but yes - you'd follow the bottom path in that chart and upgrade to v2 of UFPS and TPC, then upgrade to FPC from UFPS 2.
     
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  42. opsive

    opsive

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    I don't have a set time frame for when I'll stop maintaining v1 - it depends a lot on the adoption of v2. Version 1 will be deprecated and I'll likely just post diffs whenever there needs to be a change.
     
  43. Murgilod

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    Is there a breakdown of the new features of v1 and v2? I have v1 and it's served me well for its purposes, so I might be interested in upgrading.
     
  44. EvilGremlin

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    This video will help.
     
  45. IrishDev

    IrishDev

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    No sure if this has been reported or not but I noticed the following issue with the RC3 demo.
    In first-person mode navigate to the Aiming room.
    With the sniper rifle selected, use the right mouse button to enter scope mode.
    The character will automatically aim a few meters above where you were initially aiming.
    Moving to the Die/Revive room the issue does not occur.

    Actually from using it some more it appears to happen with a number of weapons and I would say it is related to the automatic target lock functionality
     
  46. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you @EvilGremlin. Within the next couple of days I will be posting the final demo scene and this provides a great overview of the features. Some of the features may be similar on paper but they are implemented in a much better way. You can get an overview by going through the documentation:

    https://opsive.com/support/documentation/ultimate-character-controller/
     
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  47. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you for the report :) That was related to the aiming lock feature and has been fixed. I need to get this new demo scene up!
     
  48. EvilGremlin

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    Cool. Thanks for putting that page up.
     
  49. EvilGremlin

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    After reading the documentation, I have a few questions.

    1.) The main component's time component allows the character to speed up as well as slow down correct?

    2.) Am I correct in assuming the above is a programmatic animation speed adjustment that does not require any special mecanim set up?

    3.) Slightly unrelated. Is there a queue system built in to the scheduler? I assume not since I didn't find any mention of one but I just wanted to ask. This is very useful for mobile (and exploding stuff in general).

    Also, great documentation. It answered 90% of my questions/curiosities. Nice work!
     
  50. opsive

    opsive

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    That's on both. You cannot go in reverse with the time functionality.

    By queue system do you mean queuing one event after another? Or something different?

    Thanks! My goal is to keep adding to the documentation to reduce the overall number of support requests.
     
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