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[RELEASED] Ultimate Character Controller (UFPS 2 / Third Person Controller 2)

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by opsive, May 29, 2018.

  1. PesadeloDoEspantalho

    PesadeloDoEspantalho

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    Hello, this new asset or upgrade will work with all old integrations?
    Thanks.
     
  2. syscrusher

    syscrusher

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    If I may chime in here... I'm both a self-funded indie developer (who appreciates that assets can put a dent into the budget) and also an Asset Store publisher myself (of just one asset). I had about 18 months of development work into my asset, and it sells for $25. You don't make a living off of that kind of pricing. Fortunately, I didn't have that expectation, as this isn't my main source of income (yet).

    If you've ever written a character controller -- even a very primitive one -- from scratch, you will understand the vast amount of work that goes into even the smallest details. I was at Unite when Justin and Sarah were first talking about what they wanted to do, a couple of years ago, and they've taken the huge amount of time to start with a very careful, extensible architecture, move to a professional-grade design, and then craft that into maintainable code and artwork. Even the documentation shows the level of effort. As a small part of my own job as a computer engineer, I write technical analyses for customers that are on the scale of what Opsive has produced here -- it takes weeks of work to do a good job on a document that size.

    Weigh the cost of this asset against the value of your own time in making it. Even if you're an expert programmer, can you really produce something of this scope and quality, with documentation, in a month? Is a month of your time worth more than $180? (If not, then I'd like to hire you full-time for $180/month, please.) Consider also the implications if Opsive's revenue model were not sustainable -- the asset could be orphaned in a couple of years. Could you afford the cost of maintaining your own code? Your time is not free. If you want professional-grade results, you need professional-grade tools. Opsive has a track record of producing these, and of investing the time to support their customers and improve their products over the long haul. I'm willing to make the investment in that level of tool.
     
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  3. natepacyga

    natepacyga

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    Yup. Exactly. As one that has been a programmer for 15+ years and also in the game industry, I will pay whatever price he posts without complaining. Honestly, all prices in the asset store should be 10x that what they are, but people are used to paying such low prices that the price ceiling just isn't that high. Seriously, Gaia for $67 is a steal and @AdamGoodrich has put his heart and soul into that and it shows. Great job @opsive and I am happy to support you in your efforts.
    Also, speaking of Gaia you can get it part of the Unity Humble Bundle right now (Sept 2018) here: https://www.humblebundle.com/games/unity-bundle Along with a ton of other amazing assets.
     
  4. thusky

    thusky

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    Breathing heavily, waiting for release to insta-buy :cool:.
     
    opsive likes this.
  5. opsive

    opsive

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    Unfortunately not - there isn't a built in way for the opsive store to recognize purchases from the Asset Store. This has been a really popular question though so I will look into it.
     
    roykoma likes this.
  6. opsive

    opsive

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    It will require a new set of integrations. Behavior Designer is already integrated (and you can actually already download it on the Behavior Designer integrations page.. and this page looks like it has some formatting issues). The input integrations should also be fairly easy to add again, though the rest may require substantial changes (such as Inventory Pro)
     
  7. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you both :). We truly believe that even at $180 the price of version 2 is well worth it.
     
    syscrusher likes this.
  8. opsive

    opsive

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    Almost there! One or two more setup-related changes and I'll be uploading the Ultimate Character Controller to the opsive store.
     
    thusky likes this.
  9. roykoma

    roykoma

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    I remember getting access to your legacy forum required the invoice number of the unity purchase. Maybe you could somehow link those up to (Placeholder) items in your shop like "Legacy UFPS" and "Legacy TPC" and apply upgrade mechanisms for them to the new versions?

    Anyhow, I will wait and see if you can set something up. If not i will upgrade the two assets in the assetstore or just purchase the UCC, depending on what comes cheaper, as I also see the prices fitting for the time that I as a developer do not have to spend developing my own system.

    Keep up the good work
     
    Mark_01 likes this.
  10. opsive

    opsive

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    With this new website I am no longer designing/maintaining it so it's not as quick to add new features because I have to talk to our web design company and then work through that (overall this is a good thing because the site looks like it belongs in this decade :D). We could definitely add an invoice check, but since version 2 should be on the Asset Store soon it probably isn't worth the work required. What I may be able to do is issue coupons manually, but since we're not completely done with v2 yet I don't want to commit to that.
     
    Mark_01 likes this.
  11. natepacyga

    natepacyga

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    @opsive I noticed that Cover and some other core abilities are not included in the initial release. Just curious if I should just take your old code / animation / ability and retro fit it to work with UCC or should I just wait on you to add the ability at a later date? (Really this could be said about any ability that isn't included that was in the previous version)
     
  12. syscrusher

    syscrusher

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    I know you've got a lot going on today, so this is VERY low priority, but I wanted to capture the issue before *I* forget. The integration between UCC and BD is listed on the integrations page you cite above, which is from the direction of BD to *, but it does not show up if you try to go the other way, from the UCC page to integrations from UCC to *. Trivial point, but I knew it was "report it now or I'll forget."

    By the way, the new web site looks fantastic. :)
     
  13. opsive

    opsive

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    You will probably be quicker than us for updating the ability :) The overall ability concept hasn't changed in v2 compared to v1 but the API has. Some abilities will be tougher to adopt compared to others - with climb/cover probably being the hardest since they contain the most logic. This page explains how the ability system API is structured so it should start to give you some idea of what it'll take.
     
  14. opsive

    opsive

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    I'm glad you like the new site!

    I've been trying to think of the best way to handle this. Right now it's on the BD page because the UCC/BD documentation is on the BD documentation (this was the way it was done with v1). Talking through it I guess that it would be the best to have it on both pages, but I don't want to have to have two separate files. I'll see if the site supports linking the same file.

    ---

    We're getting close to being able to release UCC on the opsive store - finishing up with some final build tweaks.
     
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  15. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    I am the same as a few here, I have all Opsive products.
    Very much want Ultimate because it will all be in one place.

    I am hoping that some kind of upgrade path can work out.
    I also feel that the developers here ( the good ones ) do deserve upgrade
    fees.. Opsive is one of them imho.

    Or as some have done, an upgrade path for x amount of time.
    Long term tho can all the products be supported ? would it not be easier
    to have just Ultimate and the BD set ?
     
  16. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you!
    The nice thing about version 2 is that even though we are submitting 7 different assets, they all use the same scene and same setup so it makes things easy. I almost think that the Third Person Controller v1 is harder to maintain than all 7 assets of v2 just because TPC v1 contains four different demo scenes. Right now I'm going through the pains of perfecting the build system but once that is up and running it should be easy to do an update.
     
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  17. 99thmonkey

    99thmonkey

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    gimmie gimmie gimmie! I can't wait to use UCC!
     
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  18. opsive

    opsive

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  19. thusky

    thusky

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    Already bought/downloaded, Thank you Justin/Sarah!!!!! :D
     
    opsive likes this.
  20. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you!
     
  21. cj31387

    cj31387

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  22. opsive

    opsive

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    I should be able to announce a date soon. In all the shuffle yesterday I forgot to mention that an upgrade for UFPS from 1 to 2 has been placed on the Asset Store which is awesome.

    Over the weekend I am going to see how creating videos go and then we should be able to announce the date. I have only one video recorded right now and there needs to be more for an Asset Store release.
     
    Mark_01 likes this.
  23. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Have a link to the UFPS 2 upgrade ? Can't seem to find it on the Asset Store pages..:confused:
    thanks
     
  24. opsive

    opsive

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    TeagansDad and imgumby like this.
  25. mrcdlp

    mrcdlp

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    Finally! Couldn't wait any longer to see the code!
    Just two question:
    1 - how can I download TPC2 as a TPC1 update (I mean with the discount applied)? Should I use the TPC1 invoice number as a coupon (I bought TPC1 from your old website)?
    2 - If I own UTPC and download UFPC, how they combine? Just an import and it'll be like having imported UCC? Or I'll be allowed to download UCC package?

    Thanks in advance for the answer, but above all for your work!
     
  26. opsive

    opsive

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    1) If you purchased from the old opsive site send me an email with your invoice and I'll create a coupon for you to upgrade to v2 at the discounted price.
    2) If you have TPC and FPC then you basically have UCC :) You won't have the single UCC package but the files are the exact same.
     
  27. mrcdlp

    mrcdlp

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    Just bought UCC without any coupon, always glad to support good work!!
     
  28. EvilGremlin

    EvilGremlin

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    Feedback for improvement:
    1.) weapon switching is too fast
    2.) FPS motion & weapon sway while moving doesn't feel as good as UFPS (needs fine-tuning)
    3.) it would be nice to be able to cook grenades
    4.) aiming down sites feels too rigid (a problem UFPS had too)
    5.) overall animations feel a bit robotic (reloading, weapon sway, movement)
    6.) no IK for horse makes riding feel a bit wonky
    7.) I encountered 1 bug where clips were stuck in the character's hand after reloading

    Positive feedback:
    1.) over all the controller is extremely good
    2.) nice list of features
    3.) the areas i felt there could be improvement seem pretty minor

    Suggestion:
    Play battlefield for an example of what to aim for with fine-tuning. Their controller is arguably the best on the FPS market.

    Question:
    Since you've added melee, how feature complete will it be? There is no really good melee controller for Unity. If I want combos or variable attack chains, I have to create it myself. Even for UFPS and TPC.
     
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  29. EvilGremlin

    EvilGremlin

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    Another suggestion. I am a bow hunter. The bow hand positioning needs some work. Hopefully these videos will help.

    compound bows:


    bow no arrow rest:


    drawing a bow:
     
    Malbers likes this.
  30. opsive

    opsive

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    Awesome - thank you for your support!
     
  31. opsive

    opsive

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    Thank you for the feedback! Are you mostly referring to first person view for 1 and 5?

    Number 3 has been a fairly popular request so I definitely plan on adding it. I would love for the horse to be able to use IK but Unity's IK system only supports humanoids so I'm limited by that. You could definitely use FinalIK though which I'm sure we'll integrate sooner rather than later. Number 7 is fixed :)

    Regarding the others, I plan on just doing fixes/improvements/videos for awhile after we release to ensure we have a solid base. I've written your post down to take a look at it after release. I don't want to start adding new features without everything being perfect first :)
     
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  32. roykoma

    roykoma

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  33. opsive

    opsive

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  34. roykoma

    roykoma

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    Understood. I guess the same won't apply for UFPS, as it is featured in the current humble bundle and can be purchased for 1$ right? (A shame unity is forbidding for the gifting and trading of vouchers.. have an unused ufps voucher still.. )
     
  35. imgumby

    imgumby

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    So we long time existing customers will not get a free update ?? So confused...:confused: lol..
     
  36. opsive

    opsive

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    That's correct.. I think that I'm going to have to work with Unity to somehow give a similar grace period to non-humble bundle purchases of UFPS.
     
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  37. opsive

    opsive

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    You got the benefit of being able to use the asset for the past number of months/years :)
     
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  38. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Actually no..I owned it but have never completed a project with it if that's what you mean...I'm a simple hobbyist on a limited budget hoping to someday finish a game before it breaks me financially through more update fees from all the vendors I purchased assets from..... :cool: ...It's not like I borrowed your car for the last number of months / years...lol;)...shame but seems to be the new thinking behind some devs who forget the sellers contract requiring free updates unless there is significant addition to the content....not just updates that fix bugs ,enhance the original scope of the product or change version numbers o_O ...thanks for all the fish.....
     
  39. roykoma

    roykoma

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    I really don't want to start arguing with your here, but first of - Assets bought in the unity assetstore are sold to you "As Is". That means you have no right for support, updates or even refunds (the refund one considering, that the assetstore description fits the asset and the features mentioned there are indeed functional - if that is not the case unity will grand you the refund without even asking the dev). You are paying for exactly the version that is in the store at the moment you click on "Buy" - no more, no less.
    Other than that I totaly understand what you mean - I also just used TPC & UFPS for testing maybe one or two times. But considering that this "update" really is not an update, but rather a complete new asset, that is just based off of UFPS & TPC I completely understand the decision to make it a paid update.
    If I would for example decide to build an (functionality wise) exact copy of UFPS or TPC, which just works better I would also charge you for it, as it is not the same asset - but just has the same functionalitys.

    Hope you understand what I mean.

    Greetings,
    Roy
     
  40. imgumby

    imgumby

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    I also will not argue with you.Contract interpretation was part of my previous life .;) Please read the sellers agreement regarding all those things.....even the free assets are required to have free updates and there is language within, that specifies what is an update vs upgrade etc...support is just good business..you have the right to refund and there is language there as well although an onerous process which I have unfortunately used a couple times now and is easiest if the developer agrees to it for one reason or another.... ..just about every asset has some sort of road map or promises of features coming in their store descriptions....no where is there language claiming "as is" that I could find.....No arguments..just the facts ma'am..just the facts...;)
     
  41. roykoma

    roykoma

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    https://unity3d.com/de/legal/as_terms 8.1 and 10.1
    But I don't think that as a general topic belongs here.
     
  42. pjenness

    pjenness

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    Hiya.
    Question.

    Im looking to work on a VR project, similar in nature to games like, Moss, Chronos, Along Together, where the player in VR is watching from a Gods Eye view into the scene and controlling the main character using the touch as a gamepad.

    Is the third person control (or new UCC combination) a good candidate for this? Im not sure how integrate things like the touch hands are in these packs? Or is that completely separated??

    I have already the opsiv FPC and TPC controllers v1, so not sure whether to get the new UCC as is, or just upgrade each of these to V2 when available as needed?

    Cheers

    -P
     
  43. EvilGremlin

    EvilGremlin

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    I was under the impression they were the same animations. But I mean first person mostly. I understand that the third person body animations are just animations and I can replace them. Primarily I think you could tweak the procedural "springs" (assuming its the same as UFPS). It's mostly a presentation issue, but it helps us if you present us with really fluid settings out of the box. Check out some battlefield 1 videos on youtube. It isn't the best game but the weapon motions are very nice.

    I can wait for additional features. I was just curious what was possible with melee at this point. I will take your post to mean those features are not in at this moment. Which is fine. I'm a patient man. I'll give you three years. :p I've given other devs that long... so far...

    Anyway, it seems like you have a pretty solid base already. Well done.
     
  44. Legorobotdude

    Legorobotdude

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    In terms of weapon animations and weapon feel, Battlefield and Far Cry are among the best games out there. I agree completely that UFPS2 needs some serious tuning. Here are some videos:



     
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  45. dev_2051

    dev_2051

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    This upgrade pricing is basically pinching hobbyist like me, who have purchased UFPS,TPC before just to play with them/support the developer, without being able to ship a finished product as it's a lot of work for a single person.

    Just a suggestion Justin if possible please introduce an indie licensed version of UCC assets(may be with some watermark or closed dll) to which hobbyist like me can upgrade by paying small reasonable price and if we manage to complete the project of our dream then to remove the watermark will further upgrade from indie license to full version of UCC .

    I guess this way everyone will remain happy and Opsive will earn more for all their hard-work and support towards the community.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  46. EvilGremlin

    EvilGremlin

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    Just think of it like this. How many hours of entertainment are you getting? 50 hours? 500 hours? What would it cost to entertain yourself that long with some other hobby? I mean I get it. I'm similar, though I am a 3D artist (not usually game art though). But whatever I get on this account (and it's a lot of stuff) is mostly just for fun. But I feel like it's worth it. At least, that's how I justify it.
     
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  47. TeagansDad

    TeagansDad

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    Wait... So Justin has been working pretty much full time on this complete, from the ground up rewrite for nearly two years, but somehow it's unfair that we should have to pay something for it?

    No wonder so many assets end up abandoned by their creators.
     
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  48. unicat

    unicat

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    Like the FarCry 5 Controller the most. It is nearly perfect. I hope to get UCC nearly to that one. Just bought UCC from the
    website.
     
  49. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Well the cats out of the bag so to speak so I believe it's an appropriate discussion.You link might have some validity in some other discussion about the general EULA for you and me but you linked to the wrong document.The Providers (sellers) agreement resides here..https://unity3d.com/legal/as_provider I direct you in particular to Section 9 as a start...It's not a long document , please read the rest so you are fully aware of your rights as a buyer and what the sellers agree to.I won't talk about our current host but there are other devs I've talked to in the past who were either totally unaware that the agreement even existed or had never bothered to read it.I've been in this discussion before and have even been contacted by other devs surprised that the current dev involved was trying to charge for an update.
    I started a while back asking certain types of providers before I purchase if their plans include trying to charge for updates because of the aforementioned discussion.If they respond in the negative I save a screenshot of the response and buy their product.If they say they're going to charge for them I'd give them a link to the agreement and move on to another but that's actually never happened .Every producer I've asked since I started has responded with surprise that I even had to ask the question and to date all have kept their word and contractual agreement.
    good luck in all your endeavors..
    hope this helps
     
  50. Mohamed-Anis

    Mohamed-Anis

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    Thank you! Interesting to know.

    My interpretation as follows (and if I'm wrong do lemme know tks!):

    (9.1) talks about supply of asset. Seems more like "asset provider" will not charge a fee to transfer the asset to the buyer. Sorta like "you can't have a chunk that belongs on a server somewhere that will force people to pay more money to access it". Perhaps to prevent asset creators from saying "you need to pay $10 for the bandwidth usage for downloading each time".

    Regardless, if your understanding is accurate perhaps you could explain why Unity allows asset creators to set an upgrade fee (I remember paying such an upgrade fee for a few assets that I've purchased over the years too)?

    @opsive thanks for making this asset and hope this won't stop you from upgrading UCC or making new assets! I just wanted to lend my support for your amazing work!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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