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[RELEASED] SECTR COMPLETE: Spaces, and the Connections Between Them

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by MakeCodeNow, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. julianr

    julianr

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    Good point. I currently use it with Unity Occlusion, but I'm sure I've tried it with Vis recently. I'll check it again with the latest release as I'm one or two behind
     
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  2. EnriquePage91

    EnriquePage91

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    Just as I was getting my wallet to pay 30 dollars for Sectr complete

    Rest In Peace - great deal there
     
  3. imump

    imump

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    Haha, same, seen the price, added to cart, boom! deal over!
     
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  4. EnriquePage91

    EnriquePage91

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    I feel you.

    Maybe next time!!

    I already have Voxeland for Terrain generation but I figured hey if it's 30 dollars I might as well buy it since apparently everyone loves this asset! I figured particularly I could use the streamer but I guess it'll have to wait till the next time!
     
  5. netpost

    netpost

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    Same for me. Not that I need it but I put it in my cart yesterday night with other assets on sale to finish up the transaction today but it went back to $100. Strange...
     
  6. smada-luap

    smada-luap

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    Not really strange in that it was only on sale for 24 hours.
     
  7. Shawn67

    Shawn67

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    Just now seeing this. :(

    Reading through, I'm not following your workflow and why you are doing all of the copying and moving. Let me go through my workflow for a large terrain and let me know if you have tried doing it this way. It seems to work fine for me but maybe you are populating more heavily that I am with spawns.

    I always work from the main scene using the Import/Export functions of Sectr. I never load the chunks outside of the main scene. (Open those scenes directly).

    Once I've imported the chunk I want to spawn on, I do all of my spawning of grasses, trees, environment, creatures, etc. After finishing working with the chunk, I use the Export function so it then saves and unloads the scene.

    I haven't noticed any issues with hitting limitations on larger maps doing this. What type of loader are you using and what size are your chunks? What is the max number of chunks you can have loaded at the same time with your settings?
     
  8. Shawn67

    Shawn67

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    Normally people do this in the opposite direction. They start with a large terrain, slice it up with Sectr Core, and then chunk it out into streamable scenes with Sectr Stream. You can do it the way you describe, but it is a much more manual process.
     
  9. Shawn67

    Shawn67

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    I noticed a couple of folks asking about performance and that is really a tricky subject because none of our game worlds are the same. For example, I didn't see much difference with Sectr Vis in the world I tested with, but when Adam tested with his world he saw his frames per second triple. And with Stream, he had better luck with 1k sectors while my sweet spot seems to be 512m. A lot of different factors could influence the outcome of what you see in your actual world.

    As for the advantage of Sectr over Unity's occlusion culling system. One for me is Sectr does dynamic occlusion culling whereas Unity requires baking. And if your scene is like Adam's and you can get a 3x performance boost, that would be another. Also, occlusion isn't the only thing included in Sectr Complete.
     
  10. myownbot

    myownbot

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    Hello Shawn,

    I totally agree. However, from a demo scene supposed to show off the advantages of SECTR, I would have expected a couple of WOWs.

    As we talk, the included demo scene do not serve this purpose.

    I will post the link to a screen capture videoclip to point at what I was talking about (no change whatsoever in the stats).

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  11. julianr

    julianr

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    The original author of SECTR said that you could only export then import from the Main Scene, it's referencing where the chunks are located so it could be easily modified to support multi scene and export the chunks into its own scene folder (not just the main one) as referencing them with a loader in the game works fine. The issue I had in 2017.x was a memory limitation on the number of gameObjects, splitting the map up into scenes worked better as every building also has a proxy mesh. It may be a memory limitation or a build limitation as the building process is still 32 bit, not 64 (not sure if they fixed that in 2018). I will get around to modifying the editor, it's no problem - just thought if you modified it in the latest updates to support it I would not do it :)
     
  12. csofranz

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    Hi there,

    I'm looking into using Sectr VIS for a space sim that involves VR flying in an asteroid field with some 5-7k asteroid objects that are fully instanced as objects and update individually. Naturally, I'm looking for a good, dynamic occlusion culling solution to cut down on CPU demand. Since this is almost literally all open space (and not sector/portal based), will VIS be a good solution, and how would I set it up?

    Thanks,
    -ch
     
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  13. swredcam

    swredcam

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    I purchased SECTR Complete some time ago but am just now getting around to trying it out. I have a large Skyrim-style world with many terrains and hand-placed (no Gaia) features on the terrains and as game objects. I'm not clear if Stream or Vis would benefit me the most, or perhaps both. I watched the FireWatch dev video and while they are clear that they used SECTR, they don't mention which components. Before I dive in and just try this, are there any things I should be careful of? Is this going to be worth the time to integrate? Thanks!
     
  14. swredcam

    swredcam

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    OK I've started adding SECTR and have created some sectors. One thing I see is that some gameobjects are only getting part of the LOD picked up in the sector. In other words one LOD for a given object is in the sector and the rest are where they originally were located. I assume all LOD should get picked up when an object is put in a sector -- correct?
     
  15. MoribitoMT

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    Hi, I have question for this tool ? If it can help me ?

    I have very large scene ( open world ) for mobile game ios / android. However my final build .apk size is too huge due to static batching. Any of your tools can help me to reduce this final build size ? Maybe something due switch things on runtime, etc... ?
     
  16. PWPeter

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    Sorry for the delayed response! Unfortunately I don't see any setting within the SECTR tools that would reduce file size significantly for mobile builds. Usually you can gain the most by looking at the included media assets (textures, audio, video, etc.) Did you look at the build log yet to determine what assets take up the most space?

    https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/ReducingFilesize.html

    For Android you can look into .apk expansion files as well:
    https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/android-OBBsupport.html

    If you want to have a solution that works as well under Android as under iOS, you could look into downloading an AssetBundle during runtime. IIRC Google will allow you to host additional files that you upload in the Google Play Store, so you could place your asset bundles there. I'm not sure if there is something similar for iOS, but IIRC the file size limit is higher under iOS anyways so maybe you won't need it there to begin with.
     
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  17. Ancient76

    Ancient76

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    Can i manipulate with these sectors, increase size?
     
  18. GameWorxStudios

    GameWorxStudios

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    I'm getting ready to buy SECTR Complete because it's on sale, I have been eyeing it for awhile and Procedural Worlds puts out quality products so I have faith they will do a lot with this and fully integrate it with their other products.

    I see in the product description and I think I saw stated in this forum... that a bunch of things like more tutorial videos and full Gaia and CTS compatibility will be done... has that been done yet?

    Also, would it work with assets like GPU Instancer (on the asset store) and other optimized tools?

    And with Stream... what happens if one Sector needs data from another Sector - ie. the 2nd Sector has a component or something that the 1st Sector needs/requires? Do we have to include the 2nd sector - even if it's not adjacent to the 1st? Or say a Sector needs a Game Manager object that it's in a scene... do we have to include that in every Sector to ensure it's in the game and was streamed in already? I would assume if a Sector isn't streamed in yet... nothing can be referenced from it... and no objects/components in that "un-streamed" Sector can be used?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  19. nathanjams

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    Just got SECTR and am really excited about what it offers. I'd like to second the questions raised by @GameWorxStudios more tutorials for open world and integration with other Procedural Worlds assets would be really helpful.

    Also, does anyone have experience using this with multiplayer?

    Nathan
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  20. MoribitoMT

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    Sector is wrap up around unity additive scenes. Yes you need to load scene and find gameobject for references..
     
  21. PWPeter

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    Unfortunately we don't have tutorial videos and a full, comfortable cross-integration out yet, but in theory it is possible to use Gaia, CTS & SECTR together. I put together a SECTR stream cross-asset guide and a small script that helps you to sort Gaia GameObjects into the respective sectors. This represents not the final integration for the PW tools, we want to make it so that tools like these are fully integrated in the products, but maybe it is enough already to get you started. (See attachment)

    Your gameplay logic needs to be designed with the streaming world setup in mind. As MoribitoMT pointed out, it is based on additive scene loading. This means if you have a fixed reference to a GameObject in another sector, that will not work during streaming. You would need some sort of global manager who recognizes those objects and either manages the interaction between those, or creates the reference between them when they are both loaded at the same time. This is not a "SECTR problem" though, but more a general issue with world streaming.

    I personally did not have the chance to test that yet. In theory it should work to have each player stream their own surrounding part of the world while exchanging the relevant object positions over network, but you will probably need to take into account that some players might see an object in a sector that others don't etc. So just with as the gameplay logic from the answer above, the network logic would need to take into account as well that the world is being streamed and it is not one fixed scene for all players.
     

    Attached Files:

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  22. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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  23. Captain-Cutwood

    Captain-Cutwood

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    I have SECTR Complete and several of your other products, but now am having errors when importing the package to Unity 2018.3.9f1 centered on this problem that SECTR Core ie: HullEditor and PortalEditor. The console is calling for use of KeyUp instead of mouseUp, MouseMove instead of mouse.Move. and about 7 similar instances in those scripts.

    Etc. - I think I can fix these by editing the scripts with just changing some of the words in there. I am not a script programmer but more of a script tinkerer at this stage of my experience. But since I downloaded this from the Asset Store, perhaps you want to brush up the package for delivery for new buyers.

    I really like your products and am still learning them through the videos, so guess I'm learning a bit about writing scripts too I might say!!! Not so much of a problem, as a potential beneficial learning experience if I can fix these errors.
     
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  24. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    Thanks for reporting this! The mouseMove -> MouseMove error should normally be automatically resolved when you agree to letting unity update the scripts on import. But regardless of that we have been working on an update for the Sectr products that will get rid off these and other issues & will add better integration for Gaia / CTS / GeNa which will be released in the coming few days.
     
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  25. imgumby

    imgumby

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    just say no to update fees for integrations and bug fixes...which is basically what 2019 version amounts to according to the change log...good luck
     
  26. AdamGoodrich

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    Hey everyone,

    We are very pleased to announce the next iteration in the life of the SECTR suite with the release of SECTR COMPLETE 2019.

    After observing the way in which SECTR was being sold and used, we have decided only to continue only with a SECTR COMPLETE package. There were not enough sales of the other packages to warrant the overhead of keeping and supporting them as separate packages, however, they are still actively being supported as part of the new SECTR COMPLETE SUITE.

    We have invested considerable time and effort into upgrading, adding support for the changes imposed by changes in the engine, and in particular have focused on improving and expanding on streaming and large world support, as this fits perfectly with our world creation suite of products.

    The biggest new features and enhancements in the latest version include:
    • Unity 2018.3 and Unity 2019.x support
    • Floating Point Origin Support (extra large world support)
    • Orders of magnitude improvements in the speed of the sectorization process
    • Seamless integration with Gaia, GeNa 2 and CTS (end to end integrated world building)
    • Many easy of use enhancements
    • Many documentation enhancement (including a terrain streaming guide).
    For a more detailed description of all the enhancements we have made please check out the release notes on the asset itself.

    In line with our commitment to continue to develop and our ongoing support the SECTR suite of products we will be charging a nominal upgrade fee. This fee is not being taken out of the business, it is ALL being invested back into growing the Procedural Worlds team, and pays for our development support resources.

    Upgrade pricing is:
    • SECTR Core -> SECTR COMPLETE 2019 $47
    • SECTR Audio -> SECTR COMPLETE 2019 $17
    • SECTR VIS -> SECTR COMPLETE 2019 $17
    • SECTR STREAM -> SECTR COMPLETE 2019 $17
    • SECTR COMPLETE -> SECTR COMPLETE 2019 $17
    And for anyone who purchased in the past 90 days, the upgrade is free.

    In addition to the enhancements we have made to the documentation we are also in the process of making a bunch of new video tutorials, and these will come online in the next few days and weeks.

    We hope that the community sees the upgrades we are making and change in direction to be the positive thing it is for the future of the SECTR Suite of products.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  27. 99thmonkey

    99thmonkey

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    Excited! Purchased!! Yes!
     
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  28. netpost

    netpost

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    Congratulations for your hard work guys! Just upgraded! This is a great release.
     
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  29. razzraziel

    razzraziel

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    Hi! How does floating point solution work?
     
  30. julianr

    julianr

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    Nice work! Can you export chunks from any scene now, not just the Main scene? I load in 4 scenes into my game, each with their own chunks referencing their own directories (Main, Main2, Main3, Main4) which is a manual process. After I export chunks from the main scene, I then copy the files into their own directories and reference their locations from the SECTR_chunk node name. It's a manual process, so not having to do this anymore will be a time saver.

    The reason why I did this is that there is a 4gb limit per scene, as it still uses a 32 bit component when building your project. Anything above this causes memory and graphical glitches. At least I don't think they have resolved this in 2017.x
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
  31. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    From the technical side you can track one object (usually the player or the main camera). As soon as this object passes a certain distance from the world origin, all objects in the scene that are marked for shifting will be shifted so that the tracked object is back at 0,0,0 and all other objects are moved in position accordingly, so the player ideally does not notice the shift at all.
    The downside is that you can't use this with static objects (obviously) as they need to be able to change position during runtime, and it might make your gameplay programming more complicated as you need to keep in the back of your head that a shift might occur when you do distance calculations etc.
    Overall it is more like a big workaround for the shortcomings of floating point precision, and I would only recommend to use it if you are actually running into floating point precision issues. It is reversible though, so it can't hurt to give it a try if you are not sure.

    From the usability side, you can enable this fix from the streaming window with a button, and there are is also a button that helps you to identify static objects in the loaded in sector and particle systems that operate in world space (there is a special fix for those as well).
    Streaming Sectors will be shifted automatically when the fix is enabled, all other global objects that you want to include you can add a simple component to them and they will be shifted as well.
     
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  32. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    Cautious yes, you can do this now. "Cautious" because the sectr export has been rewritten & reorganized mainly to be more performant, but not specifically to support exporting from multiple scenes. That this works now is more like a "side effect" than a planned feature of the restructured export.
    So it has not been extensively tested in this scenario yet. That being said, I just did a quick test with a main scene and a secondary scene and I could export & import & stream the sectors just as if they were in one scene together.
     
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  33. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    Thanks for the support!
     
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  34. julianr

    julianr

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    Great! Thanks for testing it out .. it should be made a feature to keep this as it will make a difference to so many games that exceed the 4gb scene limitation. I don't think Unity supports this in later versions yet, as they wanted to keep it downward compatible.

    Purchased! Thanks for the upgrade.
     
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  35. julianr

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    Works very well with the new speed increases! If you have multiple scenes loaded in the editor, it will try to export to the default (Main Scene) so you need to set the scene that has the object to be exported, to Active before doing so, once its exported, any future export of that object takes the node and path, so you don't need to change the location or set the scene as active. This worked the same on previous SECTR Stream releases, so may well be an inherited feature - if you could include something that would check to see what Scene the game object is in to export and define the correct path, so you don't need to keep setting the scene active for each game object in that scene, that would be great!

    The only other thing I've not checked yet is mass export. I think it would need to be done individually, as the mass export tool might only reference the main scene. Once exported individually, then the mass export may or may not work. I tend to stay away from the mass export, and only use Import and Revert when I need to see everything in one place.

    Nice work guys.
     
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  36. razzraziel

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    So this means we still cant use this feature for large open worlds with terrains and other statics. I wish there is a workaround for this too. Thanks for info.
     
  37. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    You could make the terrains not static to use the fix with it, but if you need to have static objects in your scene AND a very large game world you are out of luck, to my knowledge the floating point precision issue is tied in to the unity engine itself so it is not something you could just fix with a script on the side.
     
  38. syscrusher

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    The floating point precision issue would have been easier to solve within the Unity engine were it not for the fact that until recently the GPUs were only able to support 32-bit floating point. For that reason, supporting 64-bit precision isn't just a matter of the Unity folks changing to doubles instead of floats in their code base -- all the rendering APIs would be impacted. New GPUs have 64-bit support, but it will be a while before all the older hardware is retired out and all the device drivers are 64-bit capable.

    I'd like to see the Unity developers move us toward Vector2 and Vector3 objects being 64 bit internally, so we're ready when the time comes, but it's a tough transition at the lower levels of the stack.
     
  39. cygnusprojects

    cygnusprojects

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    Another option is to use Camera Relative rendering (https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/ScriptableRenderPipeline/wiki/Camera-Relative-Rendering) but only supported in the HDRP. I did a lot of research to get my open world project up and running but as I'm unable to use HDRP (due to shader assets not supporting it) I'm also stuck with a floating point system.
     
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  40. syscrusher

    syscrusher

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    Thanks for sharing that link! I was actually considering something like this for some experimental work I'm doing, in which the player would always be at <0, y, 0> and when the player locomotes, the world moves instead of them. I never considered a shader-based option for doing that just in the rendering instead of in the world. I don't know if this helps me or not, but it's another option to consider.
     
  41. macish

    macish

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    I'm confused a bit.. i bought SECTR COMPLETE Nov 20, 2018 and it shows as deprecated now.. do i need to buy this again to get it working properly with Unity 2019.x ?
     
  42. EnriquePage91

    EnriquePage91

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    Hello! I see SECTR complete is on sale now and I'm really tempted to get it.

    I will be utilizing Voxeland + MapMagic for the generation of my terrain, would the streaming solution help me out on this or would it be redundant to implement? I'm sorry, I know I could do tons of research on this (and I have looked around a bit already but I have not been as successful as I would have wished) but if someone has minimal feedback to offer it will help cut out the time invested in doing such.

    Voxeland and MapMagic probably have some sort of streaming solution (I haven't really gotten to working on the terrain just yet but I am close to and probably will be doing so this month (MAY)), would it be wise to implement SECTR Stream in this scenario or would it be redundant? Perhaps it would be wiser for me to simply rely on Voxeland's streaming solution (I would imagine it has one since it is procedural terrain after all)

    At the same time, would I be able to stream "procedural terrain" or would it have to be baked onto static meshes before becoming streamable with SECTR? My terrain will be dynamic, therefore I'm not sure if SECTR can handle voxel terrains in the same way it handles anything else.

    I am mostly interested in SECTR VIS and STREAM, although perhaps the audio will play nicely too with my audio solution (AudioHelm), but as long as I can get SECTR VIS and STREAM to work with my project, and am paying the current 47.5 dollars price for it, I will consider it a steal.

    Any feedback will be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  43. imgumby

    imgumby

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    It's PW's new business model...buy up assets..deprecate them..make old users pay again...and again...and again.........Recurring update fees are something not evident in their store pages.Semantics aside "recurring update fees" = "subscription system" that PW wanted but was voted down on by the users when asked..
    PW's sector complete ....14 "updates" (2 touting simple compatibility with unity) and 21 "fixes" yep....lots of new stuff there making the update fee worthwhile and justifying the deprecation....not....Never again a PW product...only 2 of the couple dozen or so vendors I've purchased from over the years are trying to pull this stuff...Ork...$100 a year subscription fee....dead and gone to me..Opsive too...stripping original tpc and deprecating to force paid updates to new controllers with the tpc old functionality ...gone as well....
    I'll pay for a significant update if asked and deemed acceptable... Doozy just got a few bucks from me as they offered a bunch of new stuff that was previously paid that I was looking at anyway. Malbers got a couple bucks from me a while ago for adding a bunch of new models and functionality....will not be paying for bug fixes and version number changes. I've wasted waaaaayy too much money with PW going under the assumption they'd honor their sellers contract in force at the time of purchase .

    I ask any vendor now if there are plans for update fees..negatives get my money..positives or no response send me looking for an alternative of which there are plenty of...
    Caveat Emptor
    good luck
     
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  44. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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  45. kdgalla

    kdgalla

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    Sectr Complete has just recently been replaced with Sectr Complete 2019. Not sure if you actually need Sectr Complete 2019 (The old may still work fine). It looks like if you already bought Sectr Complete, then Sectr Complete 2019 is only $17.00, so it's not as if you have to spend the $95 all over again.
     
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  46. PWPeter

    PWPeter

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    I personally have not used voxeland, but I assume you will get no advantage from utilizing stream and vis with it. Usually voxel terrain with infinite terrain has their own solution for streaming and culling.
    When you stream a regular unity terrain with Sectr, this works by splitting the terrain up in smaller parts and exporting these chunks into separate scenes. Those scenes are then loaded in and out dynamically around the player as they move through the game world. I assume this process would rather disturb voxeland, I assume it is not made to exist across multiple scenes that are loaded in and out around it.
    With vis it is a similar story, it determines which renderers are currently visible for the player by analyzing the surrounding sectors and portals between them, and I assume voxeland already culls all voxels not currently visible by the camera, so there would be nothing to gain here as well.
    The audio components of Sectr should work though. If you are looking mainly for a solution to play ambient soundscapes in different areas on your terrain that can interact with your gameplay, you could also consider getting ambient sounds instead (shameless plug): https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/audio/ambient-sounds-interactive-soundscapes-142132
     
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  47. EnriquePage91

    EnriquePage91

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    Yes, indeed Denis Pahunov *the developer behind VoxeLand and MapMagic* has told me the same. I mean, it technically seems to be very plausible and possible, but only if you're intending on baking the terrain which is definitely something I am not interested in.

    Thank you so much for the answer! SECTR at 47.5$ is still a crazy deal and I might consider it in a week or two for other projects and possibilities, including streaming interiors of "buildings" and what not, which would be handled in the way SECTR does (no problem there, I knew this, I just wanted to figure out if it would optimize my terrain too).

    My last question I guess, would be:

    Will this offer be available throughout the whole month of May?? I am unfortunately a bit short on money as of right now, but I have 4 assets on sight including SECTR which unfortunately is still the most "expensive" of them all (not complaining, it's still a bargain given what it offers).
     
  48. macish

    macish

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  49. AdamGoodrich

    AdamGoodrich

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    3,622
    It is unlimited - so you can upgrade at any time.

    The sale ends on May 14th.
     
    EnriquePage91 and macish like this.
  50. julianr

    julianr

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Posts:
    1,101
    I have no issues with PW charging an upgrade fee, even if its a small update with change of ownership - they need to get their investment back somehow, even if it doesn't cover the cost, but help with future updates. PW have several people they need to keep employed which means products will get updated and I don't think they are going anywhere, anytime soon. One off fees for assets means that when sales dip, or halt to zero then how will they pay themselves a salary/pay the bills etc - the only way they can do that is if they produce new products to generate sales again, and that will cause existing products to suffer. It is better to have a small selection of flagship products that are constantly being updated, and some that do not need updating very often. Buying SECTR is a good move on their side, and works well with their other products. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take SECTR as there is plenty of ways to extend this product.