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[Released] R.A.M River Auto Material.

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by NatureManufacture, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. ceebeee

    ceebeee

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    Yes I see. You might want to put that in a 'quickstart' instead of page 44 of a tutorial manual, I usually expect packages to either auto configure such Project settings themselves with a configuration script, or warn me about them in a quickstart document. But that does resolve the quandry.
     
  2. Manul_

    Manul_

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    Are there any differences between the 2019 version and the old one regarding desktop performance?
     
  3. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    We made terrain not for mobile demo - instancing and many things turned on, sorry. :) just try our stuff on your project and for sure it will work fast. I will rebuild that setup just for mobiles but this will force me to build separated terrain, textures etc which fit mobile games - which is basicly setup inside engine. Remember that terrain have 2k textures on it, its pretty big and verts are dense, thats why when you just build our demo it will not give you right speed out of the box. I would have to create separate texture set to show it on our demo as 1 texture cant be in 2 different resolutions at the same project. Check also post procesing which also doesnt fit mobiles.

    Hmm maybe I forgot to recompile it. I will check for sure, sorry for problems.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
    creat327 likes this.
  4. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    R.A.M is very fast it self, you shoudn't notice drop.
    There is video tutorial which contain description. We even mark time of each feature at this description so user dont have to watch everything.
     
  5. rrahim

    rrahim

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    I upgraded immediately!

    Is the demo video done in HDRP?
     
  6. halley

    halley

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    How exactly do we take advantage of that 60 day upgrade process?

    Edit: ok, it looks like the Asset Store via the website automatically handled it, and showed a FREE button since my previous purchase qualified me. For some reason, the Unity Asset Store tab did not do the same thing.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  7. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    It will be with new foliage pack which will apear very soon.
    You just have to be logged in:)
     
    rrahim likes this.
  8. halley

    halley

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    Well, it was (yet another) quirk/glitch with the built-in Store tab. I was logged in but did not see the special handling. When in doubt, fire up the real web browser instead.
     
  9. alexrau

    alexrau

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    Paid for update to RAM 2019 and still having the same issue with compiling. I think the issue is that on 2018.4r1 LTS (the last 2018 version) the latest version of Lightweight RP available is 4.10.0 and the package tha is in RAM seems to reerence a version later "t LW SRP 4.2.0 Unity 2018.3 with new terrain River Auto Material". I had tried it on 2018.3r14 prior to upgrading to the LTS version with the same issue. Trying to avoid going to 2019, since (hoping that I am close to game demos and don't want to chase an upgrade cycle for another year).


    Compile error is :
    Assets\NatureManufacture Assets\Spline System\Scripts\LakePolygon\LakePolygon.cs(314,31): error CS7036: There is no argument given that corresponds to the required formal parameter 'z' of 'Vertex.Vertex(double, double, double)'
     
  10. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    I will check it in monday. We will spent whole day for fixes and tests. At 2019.1 works fine and 2018.3 also. If only 2018.4 would be broken that will be sad.
     
  11. treshold

    treshold

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    I havent bought yet the upgrade: is there runtime api examples making lake polygons? (or is it in latest old version? :D) Im using mapmagic and veg studio pro to generate my procedural terrain and maybe i could try creating runtime lakes etc to add some interest to terrains.
     
  12. alexrau

    alexrau

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    That is great. Just fyi i tried it on 2018.3r14 first and got same problem. Tried upgrading to 2018.4 in hope it qould fix
     
  13. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Did you remove old version before apply new?
    Yes in manual there are api functions to do all lakes and rivers.
     
    treshold likes this.
  14. jakes-du-preez

    jakes-du-preez

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  15. jakes-du-preez

    jakes-du-preez

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    I think the 2019.1 hdrp is coming on prety good. cant wait for finale wtare wind and grass functionality and getting more creative. thanks for an awesome and very powerfull tool. brilliant
     
  16. alexrau

    alexrau

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    I thought I had removed everything from previous version (see shot below).
    Don't want to delete the other asset in the NatureManufacture Assets folder; if can avoid since it will mess up the terraines that are using it. (also a great asset)

    things i delete.PNG
     
  17. Leila_Branwen

    Leila_Branwen

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    I have tried twice to delete R.A.M. and import R.A.M. 2019. The second time, I deleted the entire NatureManufacture Assets folder, in case I missed something shared among the other assets. All materials are still showing pink and when I look in the inspector all the shaders show they are not compatible with SRP. I am using 2019.1.1f1 and HDRP 5.7.2.
     
  18. alexrau

    alexrau

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    You an make the pink go away using by under edit-->lightweight converting the materials. Sometimes after you do this you have to also go and reimport just the meshes by selecting them and right slide reimporr.
     
  19. Leila_Branwen

    Leila_Branwen

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    I finally found the Unity package "HD SRP 5.7" in the River Auto Material folder. I didn't realize they were packages at first, I thought they were scenes. Materials seem to be working now.
     
  20. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    =
    We take care of it today. We have small bug list and we will try to fix everything and upload today.
     
  21. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    You have triangle.net in your project. Something use same class name as we use. There is a conflict between assets
     
  22. alexrau

    alexrau

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    In doing a search in Visual Studio I found that Awesome Technologies Vegetation studio also has a class of the same name; however removing Vegetation Studio did not seem to resolve the issues.
     
  23. hollegar

    hollegar

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    Hi, can you right click in visual studio on Vertex and chose go to definition? (shortcut F12)
     
  24. alexrau

    alexrau

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    Brings me to class Vertex.cs which there is a copy of in "Dynamic Water Physics" and in "RAM".
    If I remove the Dynamic Water Physics asset, then RAM compiles correctly and I see the "River Spline" option in the Hierarchy editor. Thank you very much for direction on this.
    I guess if I want to add back in Dynamic Water Physics, I could just use the refactor function to change the name of their class in that asset or add namespace references to it. Thanks again and really excited to add some rivers and streams to game.:)
     
  25. sora1994

    sora1994

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    Want to prefabricate a river made with R.A.M and generate it using Instantiate from a C # script.
    When you play the scene, the river is in the hierarchy but it does not appear in the scene.
    Click a river in the hierarchy to display it in the scene.
    You can click in Unity. How can I display it on a smartphone?
     
  26. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    You sure you use mobile shaders instead of tesseled ?
    Sometimes you have to also call regenerate spline function.
     
  27. sora1994

    sora1994

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    Yes. Use mobile shaders.
    What is a Regeneration Spline Function?
    Which script do you write?
     
  28. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    @hollegar Will be able to answer this. Btw do you use 2019 or old ram?
     
  29. creat327

    creat327

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    Well, I created an empty project. I just placed a lake with water, no terrain, nothing. Just the lake. It runs at 2 to 3 fps on my android. Aquas runs at 24 fps. Community ocean shader runs at 38 fps (and this thing has 3d real time waves!)

    So yeah, RAM shader seems to have a huge performance cost and definitely not suited for mobile. Please do try to run it on a mobile. It doesn't make sense that a lake by itself runs at less than 50 fps.
     
  30. imgumby

    imgumby

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    Bye Bye R.A.M for 2019 and above.....not sure what other PW products I own that haven't been abandoned but they're next.....probably Gaia since it's nearing that magical version 2.0 and probably w/o the promised mulit-tiles........Please put a note on your product pages informing new users of the constant update fees they can look forward to as it's apparently not normal for the majority of asset store sellers and no one likes surprise bills...
    good luck..
     
  31. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Did you place mobile version of material?
    If you want to have new versions, features and all new unity stuff support all the time then we need to gain budged to work on it all the time. We also have family and we have to feed them aswell. Nobody work for free and spend months for free. It's not week or 2. It's noth month or 2... We spent full 4 months to build this version.
     
    KeithBrown likes this.
  32. SickaGamer

    SickaGamer

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    You have no clue on how software is developed or paid for. This is not Joe Dirt moonlighting on the evenings developing these assets. These are companies with overhead and can't just make a product and give free releases forever. There is no sustainability in that...
     
  33. alexrau

    alexrau

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    Now that I am able look at it in more depth, the now getting the compiler error on 2018.4 is :

    Shader error in 'NatureManufacture Shaders/Water/Standard Metalic Cover Wet': undeclared identifier '_ShadowBias' at line 470 (on d3d11)
    Compiling Vertex program with UNITY_PASS_SHADOWCASTER
    Platform defines: UNITY_ENABLE_REFLECTION_BUFFERS UNITY_USE_DITHER_MASK_FOR_ALPHABLENDED_SHADOWS UNITY_PBS_USE_BRDF1 UNITY_SPECCUBE_BOX_PROJECTION UNITY_SPECCUBE_BLENDING UNITY_ENABLE_DETAIL_NORMALMAP SHADER_API_DESKTOP UNITY_LIGHT_PROBE_PROXY_VOLUME UNITY_LIGHTMAP_RGBM_ENCODING
     
  34. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    This error throws when you have lw rp 4.9 shaders on 5.7 lw rp project while you should use lw rp 5.7 project with 5.7 compatibility pack. You dont have any rp there?
     
  35. sora1994

    sora1994

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    understood.
    Let's ask @hollegar.

    Ram uses Ver 1.7 released in May 2019.
     
  36. creat327

    creat327

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    YES

    Come on. I'm building for mobile. No, I would go and select the most expensive shader and material on your system. Duh.

    Can you just please put a lake with your simplest mobile shader (the one that looks like junk) and build and run at a regular android? You don't even need a terrain. Set the water textures to 512 size (just so you know, I also did this, and no, don't run it on a Samsung galaxy 10 hyper latest generation, run it on average android that uses android 5 or so, $100-$150 phones that nowadays are even quadcores and run my flight simulator with Ocean Water at 30 fps on multiplayer). Then do the same with aquas or any other system and compare. I'm a paying customer, not a beta tester. At this point i'm 100% sure this was never tested on mobile so I don't get how it can be said that it runs on mobile. 4 fps is NOT running on mobile with a simple lake. The mobile shaders are not mobile at all.
     
  37. alexrau

    alexrau

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    I think that is my issue. I am trying to use this in LW SRP in 2018.4, where the highest version of LW SRP available from Unity is 4.1. (If I re-read the Asset store site, realize that this is not an option that you specifically call out, although I do not remember the version info being that specific the previous instance and there were earlier other compatiablity packages if I remember correctly)

    These are the compatibility packages that are available to me and it really isn't clear which one would work for 2018 LWRP, if any.

    The compatibility package
    • HD SRP 4.9 Unity 2018.3 River Auto Material 2019 (Beta) - not using HDR
    • HD SRP 5.7 Unity 2019,1 River Auto Material 2019 (Alpha) - not using HDR and not on unity 2019.
    • LW SRP 5.7 Unity 2019.1 River Auto Material 2019 - this is the one I have been trying based on directions.
    In the meantime, the tools for River Spline work fine and using a simple ShaderGraph moving material to stand in for water (but it is not nearly as nice as RAM shaders)
     
  38. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Try this LW 5.7 should work, not sure for 100% for 4.1. It fix that error. Please also always mention what engine version you use and if you use any rp also mention which you use.

    Older r.a.m worked fine on mobiles -tested, here we didn't change much, probably flowmap could be a bit expensive. There is checkbox in mobile shader called grab screen pass - turn it off. This function is expensive aswell thats why we put it at switch. If it will be expensie we will make cheaper version for sure it's easy to fix. We will test it on our side aswell before new version release. I must ask about every aspect of your build to get simmilar/proper result. Your first build and raport was on instaced unity terrrain with 2k textures on it which gives fales result at start. It;s also our fault that we didnt made special terrain and special textures for mobile demo (beside that we can't send 2 sets of the same textures with different resolution as user can change it itself for 512 or other that is suitable for mobile)

    Anyway in monday we will upload update and fixes, maybe even faster. Inside I will also provide faster shader if tests will show that there is strong issue.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  39. creat327

    creat327

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    you don't even need a terrain to see the performance is horrible. In fact, if I remove RAM and leave the terrain with all those 2k textures, it runs at 35fps. So it is clearly RAM the one slowing things down to turtle level.
     
  40. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    We do our best to check this tommorow examine performance with all options. Anyway check this grab screen color checkbox because its very expensive for mobiles.
     
  41. koirat

    koirat

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    Hello,
    Is there a way I can obtain vertices of river, or is obtaining them from mesh my only way.

    What I try to do is to determine if object is under the surface of water.
     
  42. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Try to you mesh colider or.. check our physics script for floating object at r.a.m 2019
     
  43. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    We made a test:
    Mobile Samsung S6 with river and lake with 2 different materials at 1 screen instead of 1 and we gain 45 fps. So your 5 fps is rather odd. Ofc we will optimise our shader until next update it's few min of work and we will give much better performance.
     
  44. rrahim

    rrahim

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    I have an S6. If you want another test, send the APK and i'll check it out.
     
  45. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    We made another test and new version generate alot above 60 fps which is max for phone. So new version will be cheap in render etc. We probably upload it in monday.
     
  46. faduci

    faduci

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    I'm okay with paying for the update. I'm also sort of okay with paying for three PW updates even though I don't use the assets all that often. I updated my Opsive assets even though the initial upgrade price was way to high. I'm aware that software development costs money, and that Unity introduced upgrade pricing a couple of years ago for this purpose.

    I'm not okay with your claim that this is obvious, as most assets never ask for an upgrade, instead financing development through the continuous sale of new copies. This includes high profile assets like PlayMaker or Master Audio, who released a ton of free updates in the last five years. Charging for asset upgrades is still the exception, not the norm, and people will be surprised. If you plan to charge for upgrades, you should make this clear beforehand. But one week ago you basically refused to answer if the name "R.A.M. 2019" indicates that you'll switch to a yearly upgrade model. As you don't seem to intend to fix e.g. the single pass rendering or support the current Unity version in the original version R.A.M., you are more or less forcing users to upgrade without telling them how long you will be supporting the upgraded version.

    Like many others I am easily tempted to buy stuff on sales I don't necessarily need and often never will. This benefits both sides: more sales for the developers, and I often find an asset I bought years ago "just in case" to solve a problem. But if I have to pay for something on a regular basis, I will do this only if I know that I use it regularly. Which is why switching to e.g. a yearly upgrade model and not being willing to indicate this to users before they decide to buy is not acceptable. I'll now stay away from Path Painter because I can't tell if I will have to pay again in a year to keep it running, as I couldn't fix anything myself due to it being DLL only. And if a large number of developers switch to yearly upgrades, I (and probably many others) will stop buying assets unless I absolutely need them, which could be pretty disastrous for many smaller developers.

    Unity gave users several years of warning before switching to a subscription model, and supported the old, perpetual licences for a long time. Adobe and Microsoft acted similar, and before that had predictable update cycles for their heavily used applications. It is fair and often necessary to ask users to pay for an upgrade or even a subscription to keep financing the development, but then you have to be very transparent about it. I'm aware that you probably don't have a five year development plan and (justified) charge for the current upgrade because it took months of work. But "We will see" regarding your upgrade policy is not an acceptable answer nonetheless.

    EDIT: I just saw that your "Dynamic Nature - Starter", "Meadow Environment", "Advanced Foliage Package 1", "Advanced Rock Pack 1" and "Mountain Trees" assets will all be released as "XXX 2019" versions. So far it seems that the only asset I bought from you that isn't moving to a yearly cycle (yet) is "Park Photo Scanned Assets". If you charge 30% for the upgrade like with R.A.M., I'd may end up paying about USD 70 per year just to continue using assets I already payed for in the current Unity version. And I somehow doubt that you spend four month of work on trees, rocks and meadows each to justify a yearly update cycle.

    I'm not happy about this. In general I consider upgrades for tools a lot more acceptable than for models, as the tools often need constant changes to keep working. Upgrades for content are acceptable if you add a lot of new content. I bought your assets in particular because of your cooperation with Procedural Worlds, for which I will possibly be expected to pay yearly too. So instead of getting assets that work well together I may now get charged USD 150 per year just to keep them working at all.

    Obviously you have a plan, otherwise you wouldn't announce the name/version change, and if this plan includes yearly payments, this should a) be explained here and b) be mentioned on the Asset Store for each of your assets, so people can make an educated decision before buying.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  47. koirat

    koirat

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    I'm using RAM. In my game I have character floating above water, I would like to add some effect like ripples on the water surface where character is, do you have any suggestions.

    Also subscription is such a bad idea, I avoid assets that are subscription based by default.
     
  48. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    In our enviro assets we will only change version name for 2019 nothig more (beside new technology and new possibilities) and it will be free upddate as always. We will not charge for enviro asset upgrades. So please if you mention that enviro pack will gain 2019 version in version name please read it carefully and notice that it will be FREE.

    Park and few other assets dont need update as you import them and simply click convert button in engine. Only in uv free pavment/wall material you have to make small fixes - chose unity hd lit shader and set uv to world position. If asset doesnt need updates we don't have to do this as they work almost out of the box.

    Make note that we never leave our stuff in DLL, we keep everything open for our users so they can modify our soft for themselfs.

    We suggest to spawn partciles around player when it hit water surface.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  49. faduci

    faduci

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    You are evading the question, which doesn't exactly instill trust. I didn't claim that the XXX 2019 versions of the environment assets were paid upgrades, I asked about the reason for the name change. And "free updates as always" refers to the past, but I asked about the future. You avoided answering if the name change indicates that you plan to release XXX 2020 versions that will be payed upgrades, i.e. if do you intend to use the Unity Asset store upgrade price option to effectively switch to a subscription model. That is pretty much a yes or no question.

    Again, I'm not complaining about paid upgrades, I'm asking for transparency, because there is a huge difference between occasional paid upgrades, often more than justified by the work done, and a de facto subscription model. Support is very important for anybody using your assets, so it is important to know if you intend to provide at least minimal support for e.g. R.A.M. 2019 (bug fixes, not new features) for all version of Unity 2019, incl. Unity 2019.4 LTS (basically till Spring 2022), or if users are expected to buy R.A.M. 2020 and R.A.M. 2021 to get bug fixes even for 2019.4 LTS.

    Short version:
    Yearly payed upgrades planned: Yes/No
    Support of yearly versions for the full lifetime of the matching yearly Unity LTS version: Yes/No

    You have an excellent reputation both regarding the quality of your assets and your willingness to provide support. And people are willing to support your work, so you can continue to create great assets. Trying to hide that you are introducing a forced subscription model will just backfire in the long run.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  50. NatureManufacture

    NatureManufacture

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    Name in enviroment asset will not going to be changed, It will stay the same only version name will change.

    To be honest, it's all about how much unity change each version. If they will mess too much and it will force us to rebuild everything from 0 and in 3 versions standard lw and hd rp like it was this time maybe we will charge for next update someday or maybe without charge. This update was VEEERY difficult for us, truly, we even didn't expect that we will have to spent so many months. First idea was about 1 month or less but... we met so many changes so we had to do this.

    Anyway we are NOT going into subscription model for sure, why? Like I said it was only because huuuuge tech change. Many of our assets have free updates since many years and we will stay with that model. Only huuge tech changes can force us to charge for an update. It's all about time.

    Current our company problem is that support and updates take 60% of our dev time. Mosly because of lw hd and new engine features which users want to use with our packs even 1 week after new engine release. In this time we could release alot of tutorials and assets but we still support everything all the time and it will stay like that.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019