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[Released] Physically Based Area Lights - redLights 2.0

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by MPanknin, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. Pete_1061

    Pete_1061

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
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    I know this is a little off topic, but any suggestions for where to learn more about the necessary subjects to actually make use of this. The new lighting engine in Unity seems really buggy to me, but maybe I just don't know what I'm doing.
    Must be tough to make a lighting extension.

    You work with it a lot, do they have it pretty much stable? Or is it still glitchy looking on dynamic stuff?
    I tried in 5.1 but gave up on it.
     
  2. giraffe1

    giraffe1

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Posts:
    205
    I am considering grabbing this asset as a future investment but I am worried about something. If and when native shadow support ever comes, will you offer an upgrade option/path?

    Or will it be red light 2.5/3.0/whatever as a completely separate product like 1.0 -> 2.0?
     
    S_Darkwell likes this.
  3. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    Good evening!

    Shadow support is an ultra high priority item on our todo list. But until now we only implemented a couple of prototypes.

    With some algorithms quality looks promising but performance is awful. Other algorithms show the exact opposite behaviour.

    Yes, we are working on it, but we can't tell you anything reliable, yet. I know that sucks and that it is not the answer you want to hear, but it's a tough problem and we don't want to make false promises.
     
  4. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    No, it won't. redLights 1.0 was completely different codewise. If we implement shadow support it will be for redLights 2.x. There are no plans for another complete rewrite of our code and therefore there will be no upgrade complications.

    But please read the many posts above regarding shadow support.

    Have a great day/evening.
     
  5. S_Darkwell

    S_Darkwell

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    @MPanknin: Of course it's not the answer I want to hear, but equally it's not the answer that you want to give.

    As a fellow developer, I completely understand and applaud the honesty of your answer. Too many developers are overly optimistic with their responses. Your caution against offer false promises speaks highly of your experience.

    The fact that it is high on your development list certainly makes me happy to hear, though! :)

    I am also happy to hear your @giraffe1's inquiry.

    With that said, I've purchased your asset!

    If your ever have any alpha or beta versions that you would like tested, I would be happy to offer my services. Nearly all of my projects are heavily reliant on dynamic lighting, and I've assisted numerous developers with testing. I understand the quirky nature of alpha / beta testing.

    Thank you for all of your prompt and courteous responses.

    Please, have a fantastic day!
    - S.
     
  6. gurayg

    gurayg

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Posts:
    232
    Hi!
    I wanted to ask a few thing:
    -I took a look at the demos at your website on a Macbook. They look a lot darker than screenshots. Are they recent demos?Any known problem with Mac os?
    -Are there any penalties while having multiple area lights on screen?
    -Can you share any info about Area lights performance?
    -Is it possible to get discounted price if we have Area lights V1? (I think Asset Store allows that)

    Thanks!
     
  7. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Hi there,

    the demos on our website were made with the first version of redLights 2.0 which was released in February this year.

    I'm not sure though, why the demos would show up darker on your macbook. Maybe it is due to the quality settings? Linear vs Gamma colorspace or something. I honestly don't know. But we tested our lights on Mac OS and everything seemed to be working properly.

    Regarding performance. Everything that applies to standard lights also applies to our arealights. Since, we hijacked the internal rendering code and replaced a couple of lighting calculations with our own code. Therefore the performance characteristic should be very similar to the stock lights but our lights are probably a bit more expensive, because the lighting calculation is a bit more involved.

    You can use multiple area lights in a scene. Sure.

    Regarding discount, if you are quick, you can get the package 50% off in the 24 sale.

    I'm not sure if we can do this via the assetstore, since redLights 1.x and redLights 2.x are two separate packages.

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
  8. gurayg

    gurayg

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    I'll be checking the demos on a PC as well. Yes it looks like a colorspace thing.

    Does that mean while using deferred rendering path, having multiple area lights on screen don't have rendering cost for each light?or does that system use completely different way of rendering and each light have a cost of rendering?

    I saw some other packages doing this. That's why I asked.
    Also I wanted to see if shadows are viable before I do the upgrade.
     
  9. The_BenEvans

    The_BenEvans

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    Jul 31, 2012
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    137
  10. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    It might be. Or maybe we got it from blenderswap.com? I really don't remember anymore. I have to ask our 3D-Artist where it is from.
     
  11. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    There is rendering cost also in deferred shading mode, but the cost is relatively low as compared to forward rendering, because of not so many geometry passes. But the more lights you have, the more calculation is going on.

    Our lights are rendered in the exact same fashion as the built in lights. To achieve this, we replaced the rendering code for directional lights with cookies with our own code. So the steps in the pipeline where and when our lights are rendered are the same as with all other light types.

    We had to place it in the directional cookie section, because the cookie texture was the only way to pass down custom parameters from the application level into the internal rendering code. it is not an ideal way of doing this, but it works and was the only option at that time.

    There were plans from Unity's side to implement custom light parameters, but I'm not really sure if they already did it or not. I'll have to check that.

    Another possibility would have been Command Buffers, but they were only useful for deferred path and not really helpful in forward path (For our very specific case).

    So we were stuck with the cookie texture approach.
     
  12. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Thanks for the offer. We appreciate it. Voluntary beta testers are really scarce these days... :)
     
    S_Darkwell likes this.
  13. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    Good morning.

    redLights 2.3.3 ready for Unity 5.3 has been approved and is available for download.

    Have a nice day!
     
  14. S_Darkwell

    S_Darkwell

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
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    redLights v2.3.3 does not appear to work with Alloy Physical Shader Framework v3.3.3.

    I followed all of the advice found in this thread to no avail.

    Even after installing Alloy support and re-importing Alloy's shaders, I have the following troubles:

    1. Using redLights' deferred shader looks okay (though, I believe the material looks a bit flat), but regular lights no longer work. The new version of Alloy requires that all spot and point lights use their custom "Alloy Area Light" script, which I believe is causing the issue.

    2. Using Alloy's deferred shader results in magenta textures, and the error:
    This custom render path shader needs to have at least 2 passes.
    UnityEditor.DockArea:OnGUI()

    Hope you will have an opportunity to look into this.

    Thank you in advance, and be well!
    - S.
     
  15. n00body

    n00body

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    Dec 17, 2010
    Posts:
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    @S_Darkwell
    It would seem that our work to add Tube Lights to our system has caused some issues with our redLights integration. I'll be getting in contact with their team and trying to restore it.

    Sorry for the inconvenience.
     
    S_Darkwell likes this.
  16. S_Darkwell

    S_Darkwell

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    @n00body: No apology necessary!

    I appreciate the response, and your fantastic asset, Alloy.

    I hope everyone has a fantastic holiday season, and I look forward to the fix when it has a chance to be developed.

    Be well!
    - S.
     
  17. n00body

    n00body

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    @S_Darkwell
    I double-checked the integration, and had no problem getting it working. In the next Alloy release, we'll include the necessary header and definition in the appropriate files, and just have them commented out by default. Hopefully that will simplify the process a little.
     
  18. GamerPET

    GamerPET

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Posts:
    367
    Hello there,

    I found some IES profiles on the web and I begin testing it to see if they show up. I tested this various ways... even renamed the IES file to TEST7.ies just to match your first 6 includes IES profiles (which show up).

    Whenever I press the "Reimport Profiles" button I get this:



    I also just added all of the IES files I have ... and I get something like this without even pressing the button:



    So I'm guessing that the IES files I have might be incorrect?
    I found them on this dude's website:
    http://www.derekjenson.com/3d-blog/ies-light-profiles

    What's the correct procedure to add more IES profiles? I have to use the IESGen 4.exe file?


    EDIT: Also, according to the manual, whenever you add a new redLight a manager game object supposed to be added into the hierarchy... well that doesn't happen.

    EDIT2: I also tested this some more. I add profiles into IESGen 4.exe ... I save them in the required folder. When I to do this all the lights change to some different IES profile. I have to exit the scene, open it again... then everything is back as it should and my new IES profile appears in the dropdown and I can use it without any problems (form what I see).
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  19. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Hi there,

    yes, you have to reformat your files with iesgen. This is because the IES format itself is rather tricky to parse and there are a lot of different variations out there. We decided to go this way, because we didn't really feel like writing a full blown IES parser ourselfs. Writing parsers always sucks. The output from iesgen is nicely formatted and rather easy to process.

    EDIT2: I also tested this some more. I add profiles into IESGen 4.exe ... I save them in the required folder. When I to do this all the lights change to some different IES profile. I have to exit the scene, open it again... then everything is back as it should and my new IES profile appears in the dropdown and I can use it without any problems (form what I see).

    Hm, this is strange. I guess, that the respective ies lookup texture is not updated correctly when importing new profiles. I'll look into it.
     
    GamerPET likes this.
  20. Draco-Nared

    Draco-Nared

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    Jan 29, 2014
    Posts:
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    Hi, MPanknin.

    Is there any way to say when we can expect shadow casting in your asset, even only partial (for example only for rectangles)? redLights 2.0 looks amazing, but at the moment, without shadow casting, they are not very useful for me.

    Sending regards and wishing you the best on the project,
    Greg
     
    Ghosthowl and S_Darkwell like this.
  21. DCrosby

    DCrosby

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    Jan 13, 2013
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    86
    I have a lot of lights in the scene some 64 odd lights, to create a type of gallery, a lot of them are prefabs, but RedLights doesn't like it when I Bulk select them or when I Copy / Paste their values via Copy Component / Paste Component Values. So what am I supposed to do if I want to affect all values ? Setup a script with an array, and manipulate them from there?? So it's really tedious to try and tweak banks of light to get a particular look.
     
  22. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Guys, sry for not replying earlier. I really don't understand why I don't get any thread notifications from the Unity forum anymore.
     
  23. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Sry, no we can't. I know this is not the answer you want to hear, but like we said many, many times before. We are working on it, but all the different techniques that we have investigated and implemented so far (and there were a few) were a dead end in someway and didn't really fit into our lighting solution.
     
  24. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Ok, I'll put bulk editing on our todo list.
     
  25. daville

    daville

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    Aug 5, 2012
    Posts:
    279
    Hi, I recently got RedLights (About earlier in January or Late December I don't remember exactly), But I wasn't able to actually try it until recently.

    I'm working with other plug ins that also require to replace the Deferred shader.

    So first time I tried it, was on a project with a bunch other plug ins installed and it didn't seem to work.

    Now I'm trying a complete new Project, I set up the Render Path to Deferred, the Color space to Linear, and the Deferred Shader to RedLights, and open Some example Scene and everything looks weird.



    is this a known issue? am I doing something wrong?

    There you can see as much Info I could provide in one image.
     
  26. Ewanuk

    Ewanuk

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Posts:
    246
    What version of unity are you using? Looking at purchase but if I have to wait for an update might not bother.
     
  27. iamsam

    iamsam

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    Dec 22, 2013
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    @daville, you need to place the deferred shader in the slot above in "Deferred". It seems you place it in "Deferred Reflections Shader".
     
  28. daville

    daville

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    Aug 5, 2012
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    LOL Now I feel dumb, yes I was assigning it to the wrong slot... my bad.

    I have Unity 5.3.2p1 and it does work, it was just me doing it wrong
     
  29. Ewanuk

    Ewanuk

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Posts:
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    We have lighting profiles that we've generated internally, however they are not working even when we open/save them from the IESGen4 tool.

    Looks like the tool is adding '#' characters to the file that the importer unity is using can't parse.

    Edit: Here is the error (occurs when I drop the IES profile into unity)

    FormatException: Unknown char: #
    System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System/Double.cs:209)
    System.Single.Parse (System.String s) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System/Single.cs:183)
    System.Convert.ToSingle (System.String value) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System/Convert.cs:1696)
    IESParser.Parse (System.String fileContent) (at Assets/redLights/Scripts/Misc/IESParser.cs:58)
    IESPostImporter.OnPostprocessAllAssets (System.String[] importedAssets, System.String[] deletedAssets, System.String[] movedAssets, System.String[] movedFromAssetPaths) (at Assets/redLights/Scripts/Editor/Misc/IESPostImporter.cs:92)
    System.Reflection.MonoMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MonoMethod.cs:222)
    Rethrow as TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.
    System.Reflection.MonoMethod.Invoke (System.Object obj, BindingFlags invokeAttr, System.Reflection.Binder binder, System.Object[] parameters, System.Globalization.CultureInfo culture) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MonoMethod.cs:232)
    System.Reflection.MethodBase.Invoke (System.Object obj, System.Object[] parameters) (at /Users/builduser/buildslave/mono-runtime-and-classlibs/build/mcs/class/corlib/System.Reflection/MethodBase.cs:115)
    UnityEditor.AssetPostprocessingInternal.PostprocessAllAssets (System.String[] importedAssets, System.String[] addedAssets, System.String[] deletedAssets, System.String[] movedAssets, System.String[] movedFromPathAssets) (at C:/buildslave/unity/build/Editor/Mono/AssetPostprocessor.cs:27)
    UnityEditorInternal.InternalEditorUtility:projectWindowDrag(HierarchyProperty, Boolean)
    UnityEditor.DockArea:OnGUI()
     
  30. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Hi Ewanuk,

    can you send me one of your files and I'll take a look?

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
  31. Ewanuk

    Ewanuk

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    Jul 9, 2011
    Posts:
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    Thanks for the help Martin.

    Like you said, going into the IES file and removing tabs and comma delimiters allowed us to use the file properly.
     
  32. kenshin

    kenshin

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    Hello, I am interested to use your asset in my project.

    I am interested to have more info abou shadows and mobile support.

    Is there any release roadmap?

    Thanks in advance!
    Kenshin
     
  33. kenshin

    kenshin

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    @MPanknin Hello? Is this asset still alive and supported? :)
     
  34. Draco-Nared

    Draco-Nared

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    Jan 29, 2014
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    Hey, @kenshin
    The author, MPanknin, told me that they have no strict schedule to release the update for shadows.
    Here is my opinion and I don't know how author sees it:
    Although I am not sure how it can be implemented, after a while of thought I realized that it must be hard to calculate shadows properly for realtime area lights. If I were them, I would release placeholder shadow casting (like built-in Unity spot lights and point lights have) and add a note that it is a placeholder and a new way of shadow casting is still under the development.
    Not sure about mobile support.
     
  35. kenshin

    kenshin

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  36. The_Lost_Bear_Borealys

    The_Lost_Bear_Borealys

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    Sep 19, 2014
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    Hey!

    We are considering adding this tool to our project but I got a couple questions first:

    We mostly use custom lighting shaders in our project. I've read the thread and saw it supports "custom shaders" but mostly what needs to be in these shader in order to work with RedLights? Will it work out of the box if the shaders work with Unity's stock lights? Will replacing AutoLight.cginc be mostly all we need to do?

    Also saw support for DirectX11 and OpenGL so should I assume this would work on a PS4 or Xbox One build ?

    Thanks!
     
  37. n00body

    n00body

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    @MPanknin
    We're in the process of doing an Alloy shader API overhaul for our upcoming release and ran into some problems with the redLights 2.0 integration. I've sent you an email so we can correspond.

    Thank you.
     
  38. TechnicalArtist

    TechnicalArtist

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    Jul 9, 2012
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    725
    Can support mobile platform?
     
  39. Jamroah

    Jamroah

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    Nov 4, 2015
    Posts:
    3
    Hi there!

    We're having an issue where after a few scene switches performance steadily degrades to the point of crashing via memory leak. We've deduced it to be redLights because removing it from the scenes completely dissolves the leak and we can leave it running for hours without issue. Things to note about our software we are also using Bink video and developing for the HTC Vive, two fairly expensive and unique processes. Does redLights have any known issues working in tandem with either of these technologies? I'm using Unity 5.3.4f1.

    Thanks!
     
  40. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Hi n00body, yes we received that mail and are looking into it. Sry for not replying earlier. We're currently approaching two deadlines at the end of the month.

    We'll get back to you asap.

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
    n00body likes this.
  41. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    Hi Jamroah,

    I answered you via PM.

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
  42. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    Yes, we succesfully tested our plugin on Android as well as iOS Hardware. But please don't expect it to run on some three year old Android legacy device. You need proper hardware, but this applies to the built in lights as well which are evaluated per pixel.
     
  43. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    Yes, you need to replace the AutoLight and add some compiler directives to your shader code.

    I wrote it down in more detail regarding terrain shaders (which is actually a bit more involved than using own custom shaders). But I think you get the idea.

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/re...ghts-redlights-2-0.296907/page-2#post-2072854


    Sending you a PM right now.
     
  44. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    @kenshin. No there is no public roadmap for shadow support. Mobile platforms are already supported, but like I wrote a couple of posts earlier, please don't expect it to run on legacy hardware.

    And yes, the plugin is still alive and supoprted, however, atm we are in the middle of two other projects that we have to finish.

    We are planning to update redLights as soon as the upcoming 5.4 release is out.

    Thanks,
    Martin
     
  45. MPanknin

    MPanknin

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    Nov 20, 2011
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    And sry again for not replying earlier!

    Enjoy your weekend!
     
  46. kenshin

    kenshin

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    Apr 21, 2010
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    Hi Martin,

    thanks for the good answers!

    Kenshin
     
  47. Spoonfishlee

    Spoonfishlee

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    Mar 21, 2016
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    Hi! RD 2.0 looks awesome, but does it work together with any kind of SSR plugin? For example, a character running in front of the light and covering it in the reflection.
     
  48. arklay_corp

    arklay_corp

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Posts:
    236
    Hi there,

    Any news about the textured emiters?

    Awesome asset BTW
     
  49. gabrielefx

    gabrielefx

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    5
    Hi,
    I've just purchased the plugin but I don't understand how to add my ies profiles.
    I downloaded from Erco some ies files, zipped into a file called IES.zip and I copied this zipped file overwriting the existent one.
    None of all ies definitions work properly. Also on each light there is a tiny projected circle on the opposite site but the light has not bottom down distribution.
    Someone here could describe how to load my ies files and have the proper light distribution effect?

    regards
     
  50. gabrielefx

    gabrielefx

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
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    Hi all,
    dear Redlight programmers I think you should study ies definition files before to release a version that support ies file. I've payd 72,00€ to have nothing...
    1st, I know very well Karbaras, the programmer of iesgen4.
    He was the programmer of Octane for Max and he knows me very well too.
    2nd, at that time, in 2006, Karba was not an ies standard expert, now I'm helping him to debug a new software he is developing, I debugged the ies light feature.
    3rd I need you implement full functional ies loading and rendering otherwise I want my money back
    On Unity site you don't specify nothing about ies compatibility also you don't know how ies file really works.

    I need an answer from you.

    Best regards.
     
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