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[RELEASED] Nottorus - Unlimited Visual programming plugin

Discussion in 'Assets and Asset Store' started by Stridemann, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Stridemann

    Stridemann

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    Hi,
    Sorry, I was not able to test it on a new version and answer your questions earlier.

    1) Nottorus works fine for me on a new version, just tested on "Unity 2017.3.0 Release Candidate 2"
    2) I already finished all the tasks in my roadmap and all last/current feature requests was released, so there is nothing to show on this moment :)
     
  2. 3d_Artist1987

    3d_Artist1987

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    Thanks for the answer.
    really it's very powerful tool.
     
  3. Szaruga

    Szaruga

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    I created a new clean project in Unity 2017.3.0p1, i added only Nottorus, and...
    in the node search window there is nothing under the UnityEngine assembly: 2018-01-20_22-57-09.png
     
  4. Razmot

    Razmot

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    Hello - I did search in this forum but I didn't find any info .
    Why does the asset store page state "Official support expires on April 2018" ?

    Did Nottorus get purchased by Unity Technologies ;) ?
     
  5. 3d_Artist1987

    3d_Artist1987

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    really needs to continue to develop by a developer or purchased by Unity Technologies.
     
  6. SmartMediaNL

    SmartMediaNL

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    Well to be honest U was thinking of buying it but even last year it was clear the support was scares on the official forum of Nottorus. Also very few examples to get started. So lets hope it gets taken over by unity.
     
  7. Alienmadness

    Alienmadness

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    you need to drop down the assemblies and click the ones you need.
     
  8. RadioactiveBullfrog

    RadioactiveBullfrog

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    I have been contemplating purchasing this asset, but I just saw that official support expires in April 2018. Am I correct in believing that there will be no support for this asset after that?
     
    Razmot likes this.
  9. Mercury_Switch

    Mercury_Switch

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    Curious as well. I saw "support ending april 2018". As a paid customer I would certainly appreciate more information on this.

    Love the tool, but need to know what is going on. Scares me a bit because it seems irresponsible to be selling the app for $150 if it will not be supported in two months.

    Conversely if Unity is purchasing it, I would like to know before I drop my money on another asset like Bolt for example. Appreciate any info. Thanks!!
     
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  10. Diego_Graphics

    Diego_Graphics

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  11. Diego_Graphics

    Diego_Graphics

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    Another Thing:
    In Unity 2018.0b7 Nottorus looks actualy very dark. Looks like an bug for me.

    upload_2018-2-21_13-4-6.png
    How it Looks actualy

    upload_2018-2-21_13-4-53.png
    How it Should look.
     
  12. dFlynnSo

    dFlynnSo

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    Agree too, and i want to know also - whats going on please
     
  13. Sussifix

    Sussifix

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    I would like to know too.
     
    Razmot likes this.
  14. Rixly239

    Rixly239

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    Did you guys get a PM or have your questions been ignored? Just curious. I'd love it if this tool were bought by Unity, but looking at their roadmap shows that visual scripting is wayyyy down the list. That said I think Bolt would be more attractive anyway, visual scripting as complex as Notorus is fantastic for coders who know how to code... look at Unreal and Blueprint, VS on powerful engines such as Unity need to focus on non-coders. Bolt promises compiling to C# with version 2.0 so it is the future... and the community is taking off... unfortunately this will never be the case here...
     
  15. Diego_Graphics

    Diego_Graphics

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    No, I got no answer.
    I find it all very annoying. With such a proud price, I think we have a right to know if our investment is worthless soon.
    I paid € 156.33 for it. I think with such a price it would be appropriate to inform its customers reasonably. Maybe I'm wrong.
     
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  16. daville

    daville

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    I bought Bolt the other day and I really disliked the workflow.

    If Unity ever buys a Visual Scripting tool, I hope it to be Nottorus, since Bolt way of working is problematic at the long run.
     
  17. red2blue

    red2blue

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    I think Nottorus could have been THE Visual Scripting tool for Unity, If the price point had been at an afordable level. 250$ or what it was the fist time was way to high for normal users. Better sell dozens at 80$ instead a handful for 250$. You don't get the visability. At a lower price, I guess Unity would have promoted Nottorus even more by itself.

    @daville What do you dislike about Bolt? Where do you see problems?
     
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  18. Szaruga

    Szaruga

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    An indisputable advantage of Nottorus is the fact that when working with it we create clean and neat C# scripts, as far as I know even Unreal Blueprints can't do it.
    For me it's a feature that floors the competition.
     
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  19. red2blue

    red2blue

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    The Graph to C# script feature is planned for Bolt with Version 2.0
     
  20. daville

    daville

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    The C# generation is one reason, but I'm aware it's planned so that's not the big problem.

    I don't like in general it's workflow.

    You have to open multiple small windows to work, one for the graph, other for the variables.... instead of one self contained window.

    when installing you have to configure beforehand what you're going to use (most of the times, just next, next, install works).

    you can choose between programmer names for things or a more human friendly names, but even after choosing programmer, some things just don't translate exactly to how you would use it in code.

    it works by attatching a component to an object first, and that will be it's graph just for that object, unless you make it reusable, then it generates the file to be used in other objects.

    Also the dependency for the plugin, I can't just delete the plugin from my project after finish coding.

    It's not so intuitive, I actually had to read their documentation to know how to use it... and try to find things around.

    I don't know, in general most of those things feel more natural in Nottorus.

    You just open the window and asks you what kind of script you want to do.
    everything is organized in a logical way, you have your variables, methods, everything there in plain sight.

    also most of the things you use in Nottorus are called the same way as you'll use it in C#, that for me is very important, because I see Visual Programming tools, as a way to learn, for unexperienced people.

    if Someone learns how to program using Nottorus, they're ready to jump to C# whenever they want, they basically just use the keyboard more and the mouse less... But I don't get that feeling with Bolt, like with PlayMaker, if you learn to program their way, you're stuck in their way of doing things, if you want to jump to C#, you'll have to start from the begining.
     
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  21. daville

    daville

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    Nottorus could have it's flaws, but honestly if bought by Unity and enhanced and integrated to the engine, it would give a huge advantage over other engines.

    Because it's more like an IDE, it's closer to Visual Studio, than it is to BluePrints.

    For me Nottorus, is just a visual intellisense... and that makes it powerful, if I could take it out of unity, I could use it as a stand alone program to make any kind of .Net apps... with nottorus I'm not stucked in using it just for games.

    All other alternatives are very "Game" oriented, you work based on triggers and events and inputs.

    "user presses jump, then do this" "something in the game happens, do this something"

    instead of having an Object oriented approach... Nottorus doesn't care if you're making a game or whatever, it just handles classes and such.

    Using other tools like Blueprints or Bolt or PlayMaker, all their language is Game related, it feels like you're making a game.

    I don't know how to explain it.
     
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  22. red2blue

    red2blue

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    @daville Thanks a lot for your long explanation. Helps a lot to understand your point! :)
     
  23. Szaruga

    Szaruga

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    Even if compilation to C# scripts will be possible in BOLT, it's not possible yet, and it's not known when it will be, also I dare to suspect it won't work as well as in Nottorus, where the effects of our work are tidy and clear C# scripts.

    Also, personally I think the philosophy of creating proffesional, versatile, and first of all complete visual scripting should be based on creating normal scripts from the start. So if the creator of such tool doesn't start from this, but creates a kind of intermediate layer between the c# language and the Unity editor, then according to me the effect is a kind of toy instead of a proffesional tool.

    I have been using other visual scriptings available in the asset store, and despite the fact that they sometimes have very nice features that make creating games easier, because of being intermediate layers between C# and Unity they suffer from the following disadvantages:

    1. you can't do in them everything that can be done in normal c#
    2. there can be problems with performance and optimalization
    3. we depend on the correct operation of the tool, and in the middle of the project it's rather not easy to switch it to another asset if needed

    And Nottorus? Nottorus is almost perfect, 100% free of disadvantages 2 and 3, and 99% free of #1. To achieve perfection it only lacks proffesional support and a purchase by Unity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  24. red2blue

    red2blue

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    @Szaruga I totally agree with you, but for me the one disadventage is the main problem for me. I don't want to spend such a "big" (for me) amount of money on an asset which barely gets support and maybe I can't use in upcomming versions of Unity.

    I guess if the author had made the price lower and sold much more, it would have been a win-win for all.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  25. Szaruga

    Szaruga

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    I understand. I bought a promotion for $ 100 last year.

    I want to add that if Nottorus had professional support that would eliminate some shortcomings and errors - we would have 100% of the possibility of normal programming in C #
     
  26. Alienmadness

    Alienmadness

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    i had high hopes for nottorus, and it usually works well for quick / small scripts. but i have yet to be able to finish a larger tutorial (like the hex map from cat like coding or udemy assassin tutorial). its a bit frustrating. probably has something to do with renaming/refactoring mid process as tutorials tend to do, and that doesn't work well in nottorus. i also have a number of open questions on the nottorus forum that have gone unanswered. while some do get answered. with a bit of support and some marketing, this could have done well. but alas.
     
  27. CupitorImpossibilium

    CupitorImpossibilium

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    so when I buy this I don't get support? I don't get it... it cost 150 USD do I have to pay for support? and my other question; will you keep working/ updating on this or not?
     
  28. Alienmadness

    Alienmadness

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    Support isn't great. almost non-existence, especially recently. Seems like Stridemann doesn't even check this forum maybe once a month and his own forum maybe once every few weeks. very frustrating. If i knew support going to be like this i would not have purchased it.
    the tool is great, when it doesn't bug out. the C# code is clean and looks great. but without "responsive" support, its been a challenge.
     
  29. CupitorImpossibilium

    CupitorImpossibilium

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    yeah it seems like a great tool and it was on my to buy list for this month but I have delete it from the list now... with tools like this you need support and updates, it seems he has another project now and put this aside :(
    OK to bad, have to look for another VS then.
     
  30. Mauri

    Mauri

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    "Official support expires on April 2018" and no one knows why...
    You could take a look into Bolt, Playmaker or uScript... though, the downside of them is not having C# output.
     
  31. iddqd

    iddqd

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    Must be frustrating seeing Bolt being pushed so much by Unity when Nottorus has been here all these years with actual C# import/export. Seems unfair in a way.
     
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  32. red2blue

    red2blue

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    To be fair, Lazlo from Bolt made a very good marketing (Landing Page). A clean and good looking website, a long and detailed tutorial and the price is within range of everybody. And most important, he is doing very good support (Discord, activ forum). He build a big community, where now there is help form members too. You see, he is very committed to his asset and will evolve the next time (Roadmap).

    It is a different for Unity to support an asset that sold 1000 times or just a couple.
    Not always the best tool wins
     
  33. iddqd

    iddqd

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    Well said.
     
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  34. Mark_01

    Mark_01

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    Bolt can make logic units for any and all 3rd party products.

    Before Bolt, Playmaker was kind of what I used but, Playmaker can get very complicated graph wise.

    Since I got bolt in Dec on sale .. I have Realistic FPS and Emerald AI and Bolt. With Bolt I am
    able to use any Emerald AI agent and on death it get removed by Bolt flow graph.

    This is something I could not do in playmaker or want to ... And it was super easy after i did the
    Bolt tutorial. If you have No clue about coding and c# Bolt introduces you to C# in a non " boring " way.

    I have accomplished more in Bolt in the last month then I did with playmaker in the last 2 years.
    So for me anyway's if you do not know how to code Bolt is the way to go. IMHO ..

    I was not going to get Nottorus, simply because of the cost, and I do not know ow to code C# to start off with..
    made it a for sure to not buy Nottorus.

    Bolt has a huge community and its getting bigger, every one is friendly, and a few have 15 plus years
    experience in C# and they love Bolt as well.

    I have nothing against Nottorus , but maybe to the slow down people have mentioned with huge Nottorus graphs..
    Bolt does not have that problem as of yet.

    At the end of the day , they are two different tools in the way they interact with the user. Some like the
    flow / state approach in Bolt is all.
     
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  35. gyltefors

    gyltefors

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    I see a repeated pattern here. We buy an asset on the Unity asset store with "big potential", hoping that the developer will eventually finish the asset and fix all serious bugs. We spend years writing bug reports. Eventually the developer drops the asset, and we stand there with a useless investment. Or, eventually Unity purchases the asset, fixes it, and gives it away for free. In either case, we wasted our money. Considering that Nottorus was originally sold for some $300 or so, I guess a lot of people are going to ask for their money back. Which they should, because the asset store is not a place where we give charity to developers. It is a marketplace like any other, and anyone who participates will have to take their responsibility.
     
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  36. Rixly239

    Rixly239

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    It's a shame for sure. The dev is clearly super talented and likely has been hired elsewhere. If the tool were $70 from the start like lots of folk suggested, and the dev had dedicated time similar to Ludlow for Bolt... who knows.

    Do I recall that Strideman said in the very early threads that if he gave up support, he would release source code? I'm wondering moving forward when Unity updates how you guys will keep this tool working?

    Since he's walking away, maybe a price drop, source release & a community driven Nottorus could give this tool hope yet...
     
  37. Rixly239

    Rixly239

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    uNode might be a great alternative, worth a look guys:

    https://forum.unity.com/threads/released-unode-visual-scripting-support-c-import-export.500676/

    Converts nodes to code, code to nodes... also looks to have a fully fledged State Machine & Behavior Tree. That's a first. Hard to get a good feel for it without videos. Dev is very active tho, states docs are 2nd priority to the overall polish of the system.

    Interesting that the dev states uNode is reflection based, therefore slow if you plan on big graphs... but he expects you to generate the C# and remove the graphs... so no dependency on uNode. I like this approach, I'm using Bolt at the minute because I like to write my own code & use VS as the game manager. Mostly I likely the integration with a state machine & I can plug Behavior Designer in for BT's. uNode could cut out one tool for me. I'll be watching this...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  38. Rixly239

    Rixly239

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    Price dropped to $100
     
  39. SmartMediaNL

    SmartMediaNL

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    To be frank even if the price drops to €30,- if the support and documentation isn't improved by a 10 fold like Bolt I will stay far away from it.
     
  40. 3d_Artist1987

    3d_Artist1987

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    I don't know why developer so silent, in the asset store show update on 2nd April.
     
  41. MostHated

    MostHated

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    Hey there, I had my eye on this for some time but just could not justify the price tag considering I own Bolt but never use it. Any word if it might be going open-source at all since it's not going to be supported anymore?
     
  42. RadioactiveBullfrog

    RadioactiveBullfrog

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    I bought this asset you mentioned here and I promptly refunded it, and the creator gave me a lot of problems about giving me a refund.

    The asset has potential but is currently quite buggy. The creator is active in the development, but there are no tutorials and the documentation is a 39 page PDF that is written in poorly punctuated broken English. Also, I personally found the description to be a bit shady versus what you actually get in the asset. As an example, the description says that C# parsing is in beta, which is true. What it does not tell you is that C# parsing requires Unity 2018. This is useless for people like me who are committed to the 2017 LTS version with their project.

    Please remember that the above is simply my personal experience and opinion and is subject to interpretation as such.
     
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  43. Mauri

    Mauri

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    The fact that there was just a price change (from $150 to $100 now), doesn't really give much hope about Nottorus going open-source anytime soon... Better stick with Bolt. It may not offer everything Nottorus has, but it's way better supported.
     
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  44. mountblanc

    mountblanc

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    Not to mention that the end of support warning is back again on the asset store.
    In Nottorus own forum is to be read that the forum will close 13 April.
    http://nottorus.net/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=383

    I feel sorry for people who payed big bucks for this.
     
    Mauri likes this.
  45. RadioactiveBullfrog

    RadioactiveBullfrog

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    The price just dropped down to $75 and the version was just upgraded to 2.0 and now includes source code…
     
  46. Rixly239

    Rixly239

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    Good to know, thanks for posting RadioactiveBullfrog. I had the feeling this is beta-esque, always a risk to be an early adopter given that early reviews can drive custom away before it reaches maturity... I like taking chances but I'm waiting on a refund of another similar tool that basically was abandoned real quick. If I get that, I'll reinvest in uNode. Else I'll wait to see what develops. Definitely the closest thing to Nottorus with the benefit of BT's and a more comprehensive SM. Swiss army knife potential.

    Also good to see that Notorus has released source, happy for you experienced guys that can modify to suit moving forward. Don't know if that gives you artistic licence to share between yourselves, but I hope it all works out.
     
  47. Mauri

    Mauri

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    $75 with no support from the developer (it's explicit written in the description)...
     
  48. 3d_Artist1987

    3d_Artist1987

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    The main thing is support not price.
     
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  49. Alienmadness

    Alienmadness

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    So... i have gotten support over the last few weeks.. hoping to make it fairly solid before end of support.

    I have found that Stridemann doesn't respond well, the forum doesn't send emails and he doesn't check.. i have found that if i send him an internal forum message on his nottorus forum, he does respond once in a while, which is how i got many of the core problems i had resolved.

    I agree with many of your statements about the product and have relayed the same info to Stridemann directly, on the fact if he enhanced his documentation, videos, and marketing he could sell a lot more products. my impression is that he didn't get the sales he was expecting (in the 1st 2 years), and now has a full time regular job, so he is unable to support the product as it should be supported going forward. i also relayed that cutting the price would increase sales, and create a community that would help propel the product. but i think it was a matter of timing and lack of funds.. just guessing....

    I'm not really sure why he couldn't articulate this himself, but as you can probably tell, communication isn't his core skillset. ;)

    As for support, i just hope he releases one-off patches, sounded like he was thinking about placing it on GitHub, but not sure if/when that will happen.

    Since the nottorus forum is going down, we can hopefully continue to use this forum to help each other with issues (as much as possible).
     
    Alexarah likes this.
  50. mountblanc

    mountblanc

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    @Alienmadness Thanks for the inside info. I have been keeping an eye out on Nottorus for some time now but i noticed at the beginning after discovering this asset already the struggle you and other users had on the official forum. And the lack of answers Not to mention de steep price of the asset back then.
    Some people even payed €200,- if I understand correctly. Its a pity do as it had/has great potential.
    Let's hope it will be on GitHub someday so others are able to work on it.