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Realism Or Colorful Stars, Which way should i go?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FirstTimeCreator, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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    Technically maybe not. Since you even stated, that you don't want control individual ship, but groups of them at once. So you dilute heavy lifting by each group (armadas), not per each individual units. Of course need prove the concept, which in my opinion you should start doing now.
    And of course there is shooting, targeting + movement for each individual unit (micro management). But again, part of that can be done on macro group level. For example targets searching. And distribute targets position to each unit accordingly.

    Remember, the major performance contribute is in fact rendering, for large amount of units at once on screen. And that is take partially by CPU.
     
  2. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Don't worry ill get to it eventually. Even "if" the concept did not work for some reason i cannot forsee, it does not matter, im still building a space game.

    I have backup plans for backup plans. ;)

    This environment "galaxy" that im building now, i can use for "any" kind of space game i choose to create as a base template.

    I could infact sell it on the asset store as a re-usable template for if someone else wanted a "ready made * extremely perform-ant galaxy system" with an * easy to quickly understand API to build a space game upon.

    With origin an all the "goodies" already built in and ready to go, ready for you to start building a game right out of the gate.

    Big "IF", if i choose to sell it, i mean why do i want competition with my own system ? lol .. I don't know if i would want that or not. I suppose if i get desperate and need money or something.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  3. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I have a concept for a second game entirely different on the drawing board, just in case that scenario arises, my second game is an action adventure story driven space game that will use my galaxy system. much more simple to develop than galactic armada and easily doable.
     
  4. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I don't think there are that many people with the desire to build space games though honestly. I could be wrong. Perhaps not that many with the skill that have the "time" and financial resources to build one solo.
     
  5. Antypodish

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    I know many people are very interested in space games. But many of them are executed not as well as hoped.
    I mean depends how you look at space game.

    • Do we classify solar based only space game? Technically yes. See Kerbal Space Program.
    • Or Eve Online. Different type of game.
    • Of course we have well discussed No Man's Sky. But again, even improved, still left lots to wish for.
    • Then Space Engineers sandbox / battle.
    • Starwars
    • Classic Homeworld (3D RTS) - I loved playing its series in past
    • And more
    However, not that more like FPS.
    You would think, space games are easier to make, than FPS games for example. You have no constrains etc.
    But I think problem with well executing space games, is the dealing with emptiness and keeping dynamic of game play.
    Most RTS games considers for example only 2D plane. Applies to you game too, from what you say.
    Homeworld was and is break through in this area, where whole 3D space was matter.you could send and hide units in any axis direction. Very tactical.

    Many Space games has simplified mechanics. For game play of course. But then it feels for me, like riding speed a boat on flat surface. Then stop almost in a place. Personally I don't like such mechanics. But I see the point of the reason behind implementing such.

    In my opinion, the major problem with space games, what devs trying to do this days, is focusing too much on endless universe, too little on the content. Huge planets, near real. Procedural generated. Some looking really good. But then fall into trap, of soon all looking almost the same. I getting the scheme. And gets boring quickly. Is problem of how much variety procedural generation can make.

    Then is problem introducing online aspect. Too much space, is hard to bring players close.

    Me for example, I focus on Solar System alike. Not even reassembly real, since I got binary star system. Or I can make easily multiple stars, if I like. But major thing is, my planets are not even look like normal planets. And they are tiny, compare to even moon. More like space rocks. Of up to 1k radius. And made of hex tails ;)

    Basically, I eliminate problem of inf space travel even round the planet. I want to introduce more action.
     
  6. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Are you working on a space game and if so i want to see!

    What im doing now is a lens flare system, im about to change the color pallets again, i dont like the colors being too cartoonish so im tweaking the color generation until i can get a good random range that is more realistic.

    as far as flares, I tried unity's built in flare system and well.. I can't use it. I need more control in so many ways.

    So now im building a custom lens flare system that will have load distribution and batching designed to effectively LOD and activate flare zooming and such when i need it too at certain lod ranges and i also need to control update frequencies.

    Unity's flare system had some pretty horrible performance running on 1,000 stars. I think i can do better, and more to the point something designed specifically for this galaxy system i am building.

    I'm definitely not building an endless universe, the size of the galaxy will be up to the player when they start a new game. the minimum will be like 40 star systems or somewhere in that neighborhood. The max, possibly up to 1,000 which is what im designing the galaxy system to support with good performance.

    Technically should be able to go much higher, 50,000 star systems BUT.. at a certain range stars will have to be completely culled and loaded in while you are traveling.

    I have no plans of "utilizing that" or building a game of that scale with this system but i designed my lod systems to support it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  7. FirstTimeCreator

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    I agree with not having long "travel" times. I want travel times to be brief and the player to always be engaged in either managing their empire, hunting down artifacts, space entities, titans and "empire rebels".

    I'm going to have plenty for the player to do to stay busy and engaged from space combat to strategic management of their empire and admirals + fleets.

    I know all about eve i have 40 billion IC and numerous battleships and carriers sitting around, haven't played in a long while.
     
  8. CDF

    CDF

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    I can't stress this enough. Forget about a lens flare system for now, it's not important yet. Start on the core of your game. Ask yourself what the minimum viable product is to prove this game works and is fun. Then start building those components. Keep the fancy visuals for later, it'll be something to look forward to developing.
     
  9. FirstTimeCreator

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    You can stress and i hear you but I'm getting the galaxy done before moving on to the game which is built upon it.

    A new version of my old pathfinding system will be after that and then ill start on the game's mechanics, GUI's and everything else.

    It's simply not "that simple". I need the galaxy to build the game's mechanics.

    Yes i'm spending a little time on graphics, I'm enjoying myself that is what matters. I'm not like on a super tight deadline here. I can afford to spend some time on these details.

    And besides im almost done with the lens flare system, 75% there as we speak.

    After 15 years as a full stack web-developer, I love every minute of game development in comparison.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  10. Murgilod

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    Can't wait to revisit this thread in 5 years to se you implementing an all new lens flare system based on a new volumetric lighting system.
     
  11. FirstTimeCreator

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    lol, that won't be needed.

    And there won't be volumetric lighting that would effect flares. If i had VL it would be in an area inside of a star system or inside a nebula but not around stars.

    Just sit back, relax and enjoy the videos as i release them and watch the incremental improvements.

    I work pretty quick so it won't take me long to knock some of these things out.

    P.S.

    I remember you from a long time ago when i was getting started, i think. (learning unity) and thought i could do something.

    Now i actually CAN do something. ;)

    And besides i would use a depth texture with a custom shader and wouldn't need to touch my flares if i did anyway OR i would intercept the post render texture and modify it the same way sunshaft's do.

    I'm pretty decent with Amplify, I have a pretty decent understanding of shaders because of it.

    Amplify set me free, it is alot easier to learn how to make shaders with a node editor and much faster. I really didn't want to spend the time to learn to write them manually.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  12. Antypodish

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    As requested, here it is
    Mind I focus more on mechanics than graphical aspects, since I have integrated lua and visual programming for modding.
    Sorry no videos

    Planet, its trajectory, blue voxel alike space craft, and green dots are floating planets, in debug mode. 2 suns.
    upload_2018-9-7_10-22-29.png

    There are trajectories of other planets too (green)
    upload_2018-9-7_10-23-51.png

    Orbit assignment for space craft to follow.
    upload_2018-9-7_10-24-34.png

    Trajectory selection
    upload_2018-9-7_10-25-18.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  13. FirstTimeCreator

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    And if i can't produce something of extra-ordinary "non-hobbyist" - "Production" quality on my own then what the hell am i doing.
     
  14. Antypodish

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    Some menu
    upload_2018-9-7_10-26-43.png

    GUI with lua testing
    upload_2018-9-7_10-29-20.png

    lua visual programming
    upload_2018-9-7_10-29-47.png

    Over year old landing on rotating planet. well technically start rotates, planet is static.

    And tracking development
    upload_2018-9-7_10-35-42.png
    Plus I got basics web page as well and some social media. But not publicizing anything. Just for reserving name.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  15. FirstTimeCreator

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    I guess I'm old fashioned, I hand code everything. Only node editor / visual programmer i use is for shader creation.

    Amplify.. love it.
     
  16. Antypodish

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    Well keep it on hobbyist level. At least you won't be disappointed ;)

    But anyway, see I got completely different concept ;)

    I can fly atm to planets, when click on them, but later with a ship of course. The move and all that. pretty far. They appear to be far in fact. But planets are seprate camera, so they fly about withing few k meters.
     
  17. FirstTimeCreator

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    Why would i be disappointed? Exactly?

    I'll make it production quality, there will be no disappointment.

    Now im for sure going to do it just to show you that I can.
     
  18. Antypodish

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    Well you said "none-hobbyist". So unless you get paid for it, how you would call it otherwise? ;)

    I do code mostly by hand as well, with help of some cool assets from time to time. Lua is for modding, for players. With safe sandbox, so cannot break the code.

    But now I am discovering and slowly shifting into ECS. Won't be all, but major physics, control systems and AI. I had my prototype of AI Gimbal Controller, but haven't implemented yet, so the ship will be stabalizing itself and keep trajectory.
     
  19. FirstTimeCreator

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    I spent 2000$ on a domain name, yall need to "get" that.

    I'm not sure what you don't "get".

    If my "mechanics" don't work well ill modify them until they do. I'm working on this game until it's released or im dead.

    With that said, mise well make the galaxy real nice ;)
     
  20. Murgilod

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    I'm not sure this gives the impression you think it does.
     
  21. Antypodish

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    Well I spent 7$ ;)
    Idea was to find a name, witch is catchy simple, short, possibly meaningful (this is harder bit), easy to type and none popular. I spent few months, with different iterations of names, before finalizing. And I am happy.

    .com domain is not important this days, when you use search engine.
    GoDaddy wanted me charge initially cheap, few $. I knew I wont go with them anyway, as they are crap, for what they offer. Few week later, they ramp up price to over 200$ lol. Possibly because they have tracked my presents and interest.
     
  22. FirstTimeCreator

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    Oh it matters for branding and name recognition. Galactic Armada is the perfect name the describes my game and there is no other name that does.

    And if you want people to take you seriously.
     
  23. Antypodish

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    Well, if is life time subscription, thats ok I suppose. But per yer ... completely rip off to be honest.
    Yes, domains holders feeds on such fish :p
     
  24. FirstTimeCreator

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    Anyway i have work to do, ill post a vid once my flare system is done, along with some other updates. I'm doing procedural planets after that before moving on from the galaxy system.
     
  25. Antypodish

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    What is not serous about minecraft name, or EVE, FarCry, Factorio etc. Short and simple, meaningful, and not so popular at the time where picked.
     
  26. FirstTimeCreator

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    no domain cost 2000$/year.

    That is how much i paid to purchase it from the owner. "HugeDomains".
     
  27. FirstTimeCreator

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    have you any idea how much farcry.com would cost right now if it was "available".

    Thats if the game never even existed it would be considered a premium domain.

    i think you need to research domain name value*.
     
  28. Antypodish

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    It would be expensive for the short name. I know. But that is not the point.
    My domain even wasn't expensive on .com and is 8 letters.
    No need .com, which is most expensive. Simple as that ;)
    This days people normally use search engine to find name of product company etc.
    Or click a link.
    Or use QR scanners.
    They don't care about .com, .net, .io, .eol etc.
    Now is only for marketting reasons. Marketting for domain registrars, to make money of course ;)
     
  29. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Maybe for a small game but not something of the scale of what I am building.

    I'm a professional web developer with 15 years experience and i disagree with you.

    People don't buy .net's and sit on them, they buy .com's because they are the most recognized and remember domain extension.

    I would not build a brand on anything else.

    Someone one snipe the .com and try tos teal my web traffic. it would very unprofessional and embarrassing if i did not have the .com that matches my game's name.

    I also own the name for my studio: DeepLogicGames.com
     
  30. Antypodish

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  31. FirstTimeCreator

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    If i wasn't serious about what i am doing i suppose i would of bought a sub-par domain name.

    A domain is worth what someone is willing to pay for it and GalacticAramda.com was worth every penny (to me).

    have you been to it? What do you think of the website, out of curiosity.
     
  32. Murgilod

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    This is Cart Before The Horse: The Thread.
     
  33. Antypodish

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    Maybe. From my stand, this was impulse, which hasn't been very well thought, or research. It also could be, that have been due to lack of knowledge, or expertise. Or all together. Many get trapped on that. Maybe, if having plenty cash to spare, that would cost penny in comparison, then supposedly is fine. Otherwise, is really powering fire place with cash ;)

    Website looks really good and is shine etc. But starting slow.
    Yet again, despite domain, you have ssl, which is unnecessary cost at this point. Not until next few years,.
    Then you spent time / resources on putting features on something what you don't have yet. Sure you have goals, which is good. But you don't even know, if you get any of the goals, before you get there. Development often diverges in different direction. For many reasons. So you run into risk, of needing redevelop.

    This is my sincere opinion, if you ask me.
     
  34. Antypodish

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    I don't think thread is. But I would agree on the approach. It feels back to front being honest.
     
  35. BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

    BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

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    For like a double lifetime subscription? It's not a dropshipping website, your IP is what would make the value.

    I've been in the business, and you never know what you're going to put a dollar sign on. I'm pretty sure most people here could call themselves a "professional web developer". I get the wanting to build the world into which you'll put your story though, but it is a bit like building your boat when you're already out in the pond. I began to enjoy destroying all my work and starting over again from those complications. Einstein wasn't smart, he had vision. With you doing most the work yourself I'm half tempted to trust your confidence, but my inner voice has too many questions. Like, why go about waving how much you paid for your stuff, are you trying to make anyone else feel bad? Because eloquence is a quite quiet quintessential quality which qualifies the quantification of the pontification of genius. Half of me says that if you were as smart as you tried telling us, you wouldn't be here right now. But I hope I'm wrong because I like your game.
     
  36. Antypodish

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    I am not going comment on @BlankDeed post, even if is possibly right. I think is a bit harsh.
    Well ok, only one ...
    And had access to patents ;)

    Anyway, that reminded me a little story of early flight machines.
    All perhaps are familliar with Wright brothers. Of course each invention has many fathers. So is hard to say ever who is first for real. But anyway. Brothers had competitors. One of them (initially I forgot name so I put wiki in rotation) was Samuel Cody.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_flying_machines

    Brothers had no money but had passion. Samuel had on other hand money and facilities. Yet he was missing something. Not even that, Samuel was sponsored by governor, to make flying machine.

    Cutting story short, brothers managed to gain the fame in the end as first person who did flight.

    End story ... (think what you want to think about it) :)
     
  37. FirstTimeCreator

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    No it shows commitment. Spending 5$ on a domain does not make one think they are very committed. Unless you get extremely luck and can get a good domain at the normal price from a registrar.

    Because i do build tests and hang out around here when im waiting on something.

    Everyone here a web developer? I doubt it. Just because you can write c# does not make you a web developer.

    Anyway your right. I'm going to leave the forum alone for a while.

    It was nice to have some social activity, you have to realize i work from wake-to-sleep. I do not do anything else. I eat, sleep, use the bathroom in between working.

    I'm going to go back to hanging out with my work buddies now:
     
  38. BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

    BlankDeedxxAldenHilcrest

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    Hm... Don't leave, everybody here likes you. People are interested in your, look how many of us have been coming here every day, this thread is almost to 150 comments. I don't matter in the long run, I think in my own way I was just trying to manage something I have nothing to do with.

    Edit: It's a good name, it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
    Antypodish likes this.
  39. Antypodish

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    How many smile buddies you have? :)
     
  40. FirstTimeCreator

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    It depends on my mood and theirs.

    I actually want to do particle effects on stars but.. that will have to wait ill be moving on and leaving the stars be for a while.

    They would look better if they had flames shooting out them in a semi realistic way, similar to real stars. Of course that will have a cost overhead.

    It would only appear on the nearest star to the player of course.

    It's 4am late Friday night / yesterday morning and still coding like a mad-man. I took a break and watched Equalizer 2. Good movie as are all of Denzel's.



    In this update I have:
    -expanded the size of the galaxy by adding more distance between stars. I want the galaxy to "feel" and be perceived as large by the player but not too large where travel times and "extreme" speeds will be required to traverse the galaxy.
    - I have added a custom lens flare control system which allows thousands of lens flares to run on stars across the galaxy.
    -I changed out the milky way skybox to a more vibrant one which has larger stars that make the "physical" galaxy stars blend better with the backdrop.
    -Altered star colors to blend better with the milky way skybox. -Extended the range of sunshafts
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  41. FirstTimeCreator

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    so.. now im looking at a way to increase en-mass the stars lens flares as you move out to the edge of the galaxy.

    I can do it with my control system, going to have to batch it and do it algorithmic to try to hide the effect.

    Can't be updating 500 stars per frame, so im going to try to load disperse with an alternating algorithm. See if i can get it to "appear" that 500 lens flares are zooming.

    Anyway my next update should be interesting, Just tying up some lose ends with the flares and im moving on to planets! I will also need to build a system to hide planets due to a camera limitation. A directon finder to occlude planets from one of my depth cameras.. anyway it's complicated but some code magic is required to make those sunshafts function with the required camera setup for the galaxy to be visible to the player.

    P.S.

    I could make the lens flares transition more smoothly but didn't feel like spending the time on that for now so i skipped it, it's "good enough" for now. It's lerping for now in the future ill replace it with distance based scaling.
     
  42. Murgilod

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    This has got to be a troll thread. It's the only way.
     
  43. FirstTimeCreator

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    ? what are you talking about.

    Wilson says don't be rude.

     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  44. Antypodish

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    Was your offtopic trolling necessary?
    At least you could add something relevant. If not, please don't comment.
     
  45. FirstTimeCreator

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    I got another video uploading, 7 hours of work put in since the last one. I'm proud of this next one. Smooth LOD transitions.

    Load testing 2,000 stars. Extreme performance.

    2 hours and 50 mins until it's uploaded. Ill post as soon as it's ready..

    then i need a break before i start on the procedural planet + LOD systems.
     
  46. BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Eccentric? Yes. A troll? I don't think so.

    Smart's and passion will get you into a pickle if you don't know exactly where you are going though.
     
    Antypodish likes this.
  47. FirstTimeCreator

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  48. FirstTimeCreator

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    I don't know why people keep saying that. I spent over 60 HOURS making charts and diagrams designing my game in flow charts and concept diagrams. I know exactly where I am going and why.

    And I also know "why" I am designing systems in a certain order.

    You guys think that i should build mechanics first, well i am , the galaxy is the core of the game, it is required for the game to exist. It must be extremely performant. Also building things out order adds addition development time. I need to know for a "fact" that the galaxy will run well when i start building other game mechanics i can test them together at the same time and save a LOT of "testing time", for me half the battle is reducing "testing time" more than development or programming time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2018
  49. Murgilod

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    This is back-asswards thinking. You don't need that sort of thing first. You can test this with glowing primitives. You don't need a $2000 domain when you don't even have a prototype. You don't need lens flares when you don't have a game. Build your framework so it can easily be expanded upon and do this S*** later. What you are doing is putting off the actual bulk of the work in favour of stuff that showcases tech. You are doing it to such an extent that the only reason I can assume somebody would do this is because they must be trying to get a rise out of people by doing things in the complete wrong order.
     
  50. FirstTimeCreator

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    Are you "building" my game? I suppose you know the order better than I do, since you spent the 60 hours in concept and mechanics design.

    I'm an INTJ that makes me something of a perfectionist. Yes I spent a little extra time on graphics but not really "that much" in the overall scheme of things.

    Seeing a beautiful backdrop to my game while im developing it will keep me inspired, after all, im going to be spending countless hours looking at it.