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Realism Or Colorful Stars, Which way should i go?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by FirstTimeCreator, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    The stars that you see in the background are physical objects that will be traveled to in real-time without loading screens.

    My question is should I go with realism or keep the stars colorful but exclude a few colors like pink and purple?

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  2. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    Hard to say without a reference example or knowing what else color-wise you will add in, like gaseous bodies. I can say though, those colors make me happy as a hog and had a "lite-brite" esthetic. What you work on next seems a pretty sacred task to me, but the pathfinding stood out the most for me. Working on that could bide you the time to figure out the other kinks you talked about at the end of your video. A better pathfinding system would also warrant a new demo reel.

    Edit: But why get rid of pink and purple? They kinda make the scene, you're missing out not using them with all that black and juxtaposing colors, especially those blues. Just my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  3. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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    For me starts looks nice indeed, but personally they are too cartoonish. I would tune colors of them down.

    Somehow this doesn't feel right to me.
    upload_2018-9-4_16-27-34.png

    I think is mainly because of green and violet stars.
    What you also could try implement, I did in my prototypes (we discussed earlier and AI), that while looking at bright stars (like sun), all screen gets darker, due to contrast.
     
  4. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Well, when you travel across the galaxy the lighting will change to matcht he color of the stars, also the current star that the player is at or near will have a sunshaft transition, the sunshaft will grow as the player approaches the star and fade as the player moves away.

    Both the light color and sunshaft colors will match or be a close variant match of the star color. So pink stars would present pink light and shafts.

    Are you sure you want psychedelic mode?

    I was thinking of adding in both systems where the player can choose "realism mode" or "psychedelic mode" at the start of the game when you set the procedural galaxy settings.

    And i was thinking i may make use of psychedelic mode to alter some aspects of the environment and gameplay for people like to... hit the bong and play videos games.
     
  5. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I was thinking the same thing.
     
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  6. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    I agree with the green being off.
    You keep saying psychedelic mode, it makes it sound like a thing. Like maybe things are normal mode all the time by default, but then there's some mechanism that happens frequently/semi-frequently that activates it. Like space drugs, material or radiation leakage out of equipment possibly during warp-drive or something, or even space sickness; Farcry 3 gave you malaria and while not as profound, would routinely alter the players vision if not subsidized with medicine.
     
  7. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Yes that is what i mean 2 different modes for the "environment" where they stay that way permanently.

    Psychedelic mode would make the space environment more colorful and vibrant as if you are in a "Dream". Also Stars could change colors like a shifting rainbow. This would be a permanent effect when the mode is selected for the galaxy at the beginning of the game.

    Keep in mind this is going to be a 4x realtime strategy game, and like other 4x games at the start of the game you will select options for the procedural galaxy such as size, number of AI empires, and other things, this would be an "environment mode" for the galaxy.

    Later on though i could use it if i want to build in systems that alter gameplay as well.

    Realism mode would be jsut that, the environment would be normal and stars would appear more realistic to the real universe and it would stay that way permanently during the play of that game.

    With this "mode" system however which essentially would be a "templating" engine for the game environment it would allow me to add more modes later as well as alter the environment on a large scale without doing any additional coding later.
     
  8. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Don't overthink art decisions like this. Just make both variations and test it out.

    If you still can't make a decision, tally play tester opinions. Find out why some liked it one way versus another.
     
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  9. Antypodish

    Antypodish

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    Or add slider for players to adjust shadder brightness / colors. And then get feedback.
     
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  10. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Yup, that is what im going to do.

    I'm also going to add a control system so that stars have more size variation between them, currently it's random so a whole series of stars could be "large" and i want more variation. It's a little to "random".

    I'm also going to add a "fly camera" and transitions system from the ship cam to fly cam, and im going to add galaxy LOD control systems that will track the active player object so that i can start on the system that will load and de-load the nearest 200 stars to the player as the player is traveling the galaxy.

    It will be easier to do it with a flycam to get it setup and tested, the hyperdrive system on ships is a tad bit complex and will take a while. I have done a version in my early prototype though if you look through my early videos on the youtube channel.

    So anyway, back to work I go, thanks guys!

    Also check http://www.galacticarmada.com

    I am still working on parts of the website, but the forum is up and you can signup. Here pretty soon ill find the time to start doing stuff with the forum and getting it going.

    So much to do for a solo developer. I'm saying focused and tackling things one and 4 at a time. ;)
     
  11. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Yes that is actually possible and easy to do.
     
  12. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    So i decided not to get side tracked with feature creep and im sticking to my original plan for now which is to go for realism, as close as i can get.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...230.ngsversion.1488483024625.adapt.1900.1.jpg

    I am using this as a reference and the stars should be similiar to reality using the same color spectrum's or very close.

    I will be able to adjust it later by simple changing the available color spectrum's pool.
     
  13. Ryiah

    Ryiah

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    Just keep in mind that what the scientific community publishes for the general public isn't always accurate to what it truly looks like in real life. NASA is an excellent example of an organization that's known to take their accurately recorded images and touch them up in a way that is no longer realistic at all.

    https://wccftech.com/space-isnt-as-colorful-as-it-seems/
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
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  14. Antony-Blackett

    Antony-Blackett

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    Do what looks good. if you don't know the difference, it either doesn't matter or you need to hire an artist.
     
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  15. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    You said it was a grand-scale game where you could fly to every star you see, then you say that it's an RTS? I'm not following your vision here.
     
  16. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    lol...

    It is RTS and you will be able to fly to every star that is not part of the skybox background obviously.

    There will be a maximum number of star systems, My target is 1,000, however the system will be scalable beyond that and will be dependent on the players hardware and desire to play a game of that scale.

    My target of 1,000 will be for an I7. For an i5 it may need to be scaled back. The size of the galaxy will have an effect on performance later on.

    And for "Unity" it IS a grand-scale game.

    I am uploading a new video it will be done in an hour so, 15 hours more work and much has been done.
     
  17. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I guess you did not goto the website.... I posted it in a previous thread.

    http:://www.galacticarmada.com

    I am developing a LOD system now that will swap surface shaders and various details for stars in the distance, the nearest 25 stars or so will have a high level of detail with full surface shaders, flares and other effects, stars past that will have lower level of detail and very simple instanced shaders as well as low poly mesh.

    The demo of the LOD system will be after the video I am currently uploading, I switched the galaxy to a realistic style of art and I'm sticking with that.

    My Galactic LOD system will process stars in batches in lateupdate and be extremely fast even without an ECS system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  18. BlankDeed

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    "Is" "it" "obvious" "?". JK, I'm sure I missed something. But yes and I5 is less powerful than an I7. What about the I3? I don't "mean" to sound rude, but I'm confused by your "planning". Don't let me get you down.
     
  19. FirstTimeCreator

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    Yes the game will run on an i3, everything in the game that uses lots of CPU time can be scaled up and down from the number of ships and size of battles to the size of the galaxy and number of empires present in it as well other entities that will be in space.

    Technically you will be able to scale down to run on a Pentium 400mhz but it probably won't be all that fun fighting battles with 20 ships in a mini-galaxy.
     
  20. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    Well no sir, it was in a different thread. I'm sorry though for assuming things, that's my big fault. The obligatory sound on your website made my laptop vibrate though. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just confused and you didn't supply the information. I honestly think your game looks beautiful, and I would love to play it.
     
  21. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    So less assets and better LOD based on hardware? That's a pretty cool idea what would open it up to any audience. Man, I always wanted to make another Escape Velocity, I loved how many different items there were. And ship variants.
     
  22. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Nothing will get me down, i spent years mastering Unity and building prototypes leading to the point that i can build this game. My life long dream, realized.

    It has also made me a much better programmer. I now know how much CPU time just about every c# function uses and why. I know how to write and design efficient code and frameworks adaptable to anything, expandable only limited by the imagination and the game engine itself.

    I can ride my bike with no handlebars.

     
  23. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    You haven't seen anything yet! the new video I'm uploading now is EONS better than the previous videos. It now looks realistic like the REAL milky way galaxy or at least a very close approximation.

    I literally work wake-to-sleep. I have no life at all. I live in the game engine. And now i have a beard as i have taken a vow of non-shaving until the pathfinding system is integrated into my cutting edge AI framework. ;) "DeepLogicAI Algorithm Matrix Framework".
     
  24. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    It was easy to tell on the first video that you knew what you were doing. The more I look at your game the more I like it, I will for sure play it when it comes out. Gotta respect that work ethic too. I may not be as good at being fluent as you or anyone else at the moment, but I live and sleep at my computer too until I learn something. Literally, I've got a little couch here and I work, eat, sleep, and read here. So once again, I support everything you're doing and big kudos for climbing up that mountain my friend.
     
  25. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    It was a fun mountain to climb.

    This is the first thing i ever created in unity the first few weeks after i downloaded and opened it, oh how far I've come.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5gBU0VVYsRIaE93a1JlQm83T0U


    I made this later:
    Check out my old youtube channel, some of my prototypes are there:
    (I'm especially proud of my storm system)
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIjyGko2yE4QdGQyl2-53-w
     
  26. BlankDeed

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    That reminds me, I could live in your cockpit interior. It's sublime, that's all I wanted to say at first. I swear to cheese I expected, no I actually looked, for an analog clock lol.
     
  27. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    My game will have a MP3 player radio in the cockpit.

    Do you remember battlefield vietnam.. flying the heuy's?

    I'm bringing that back, In galactic armada you will be able to kick A** to a fat beat of your own design.

    I intend on created a space radio system like GTA 5 had radio in the cars. My system may not be as expansive though starting out.

    The cockpit will also have a voice queue AI system that gives you verbal notifications that will silence the volume on your music when it is talking. The AI will actually be intelligent, independent and deploy machine learning algorithms.

    Oh and this game will be full VR compatible with vive and oculus.



    I am an "old" gamer... there will be easter eggs in GA that are roll backs to my favorite classics, some small things that i loved about them will be in GA.

    I also spent way to much time playing battlefield 4:
    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/soldier/SmilingShooter/stats/454036648/pc/
    Division 1 World. 58,000 confirmed kills.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  28. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Have you played starcraft 2? And more specifically RisK Legacy in arcade mode?

    Galactic Armada will have a similiar style of play. A similiar model to Risk. Units/ships will spawn at stations on a time scale similiar to Risk Legacy.

    Indeed in GA im am blending alot of my favorite games mechanics into the space game ive always wanted to play.

    Like X3 but centered around strategy and conquest instead of trading, Stellaris style fleet command, assembly and control via a Galaxy Map. Truly EPIC battles.... with hundreds of ships in any given area.
     
  29. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    Besides being utterly amazing, that looks really cool. It has a Rodina quality to it. Pretty sure that no matter what you choose to do it will be a good game, but it does show the importance of the original question because it could look real nice with realistic colors too. Honestly, I may switch to team realistic now because I like it. I love the planet haze and that accompanying transition from atmosphere-space, it looks very nice. The movement seems very nice, the inertia, the way the speed suddenly drops when you hit the actual atmosphere. And I had no idea your LOD system included tertiary objects, you should be proud of yourself.

    Do I remember the Huey's..I loved flying helicopters in that game so bad. It's either that one, or 1942 that made me buy my first joystick, I actually miss the way they handled so much. They had a little place down here in Beaumont, where you could go pay money and play giant LAN parties with random people. Those where the days man.
    I love everything you are doing.
     
  30. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    This is my goal:



    To create a battle experience that at certain points in the game you feel as if you are "IN" the battle of the line in babylon 5, defending your homeworld in a last stand battle against space titans, end game crisis and other empires that have overcome your defenses.

    In an expansion i want to add modding support so you can actually create a babylon 5 experience yourself if you have the models with a total conversion mod.

    In GA, space titans will be able to destroy planets and entire star systems causing super nova's.

    Certain types will consume stars and others planets and will be incredibly hard to kill. The galaxy will literally disappear around you if you do nothing and eventually they will come knocking on your Empires doorstep.

    I'm super excited about this game, it's a game I WANT TO PLAY. Innovate, refreshing, unique, fun and additive.. will be the reviewers headlines!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
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  31. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    I'm pretty sure you're making one of my dream games. I'll be a customer.
     
  32. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Well Sub to the youtube channel, the next vid i recorded at high resolution (60FPS) so it's a large file its taking me a few hours to upload.

    Hey do you have skype i wouldn't mind having someone to share my builds with privately to help me do some early testing if you are up for it.

    If the game does well and im able to raise some money at some point ill be hiring!

    I'll need help with just about... everything.. managing the website and community to development and testing tasks.

    Even going to video game conventions where ill have a booth for DeepLogicGames and Galactic Armada.
     
  33. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I am really hoping that i can license this as the theme song for the game:

    Or at least a version of it.
     
  34. Murgilod

    Murgilod

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    Good luck. I'm STILL in talks and contracts to license a song.
     
  35. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I figured it won't be easy but at some point i would like to make the attempt, I mean at least to have one good well know intro song, even if it's not by the original artist.
     
  36. BlankDeed

    BlankDeed

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    Everybody should subscribe right now, the videos on your channel are beautiful. I noticed on your graphics update video, when you jumped down to the sub-floor in the bridge, there were little gunner stations with little screen with real video screens and cameras mounted on the turrets. It was a really nice touch. The sun-flares are eye catching, the way all of the light interacts together when you enter a room with large windows, I love it. It looks like you're really a captain in control of a ship, and it's hard not to notice the difference in size between your ships. The shuttle feels like a shuttle, if you get to actually walk to a ship hanger, enter your ship, and away off then I don't even know how satisfying that would be. Ship designs are for sure on the right track, it's like a hark to the good days of TV, but it's still new and original.

    I don't have Skype, I work on my Asus laptop so I try to close other programs most of the day, but I'm sure we can figure out something.

    Yeah, I mean having someone to spitball off of can be good, even I go a little crazy not talking to anybody and I've got less staked in. Actually do have business experience though, I've made quite a few things run smoothly in my day. Hell I used to literally live in the restaurant my mom bought after high-school, those were long hours. She went crazy BTW.

    They themselves, had to license it from Columbia. I actually had to do this in media, but it was for non-commercial purposes. I've been scraping around royalty free music for my game like a peasant, lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  37. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    The old videos with ships with interiors, I'm not doing that anymore.

    I wanted to have fps controller on ships with interiors but it's a no go being a solo developer. Working with the models and finding ship models with interiors that is game quality is pretty much impossible. In those earlier videos everything you see is sketchup models. I pretty much had to master sketchup, I'm no modeler though.

    My game will use about 4000$ in models from a processional artist on the asset store.

    On a side not i think i was the first person to both land on a moving planet, moving space station and ride in a moving elevator with elevator music on a space ship moving at a velocity of 1.8 million m/s in a game engine.

    Ignore these videos these ARE NOT THE GAME. I have since started over complete from scratch, what yous ee in the old videos on the channel is my old prototypes where i was "exploring" possibilities.

    What you see now the latest 5 or 6 videos are the GAME, which i designed on paper, I have over 50 CHARTS with design and mechanics diagrams that I'm following. Some of them i posted to the channel.

    This one has the elevator:


    This is me landing on a moving moon:
     
  38. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Lol the memories.. i remember when i made this:

    I wanted to make the boat blast off to the moon like in the song but never got around to it.

    I think they thought it was so awesome they didn't copyright block me lol.


    Here is another cool one i did, uses an "early" version of my storm system though:
    I figured out that a pool table on a boat is not a good idea. ;) HEHE.
    There is actually more to that than you think, the pool balls move with boats rotations but not the boats forward movement, in other words you can drive the boat and the balls will stay on the table but still move side to side with the boats movements.


    The final version of my storm system before i moved on to something else:


    I'm a weird developer, im always doing something retarded, insane or something with a nice blend of both.

     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  39. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    New vid is up give me some comments:
     
  40. imaginaryhuman

    imaginaryhuman

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    re the stars... my impression is they are too close and too big relative to each other... doesn't feel like outer space, feels like some huddled squishy area of impossible space where stars are going to smash into each other.
     
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  41. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    LOL.

    Ok... I'm going to add a scale system but you know what if players use they will have to deal with the consequences and that is extended travel times between stars. In unity there is a Maximum move speed with rigidbodies where it becomes unstable and choppy.

    You will be physically moving between stars if i made "to real" it won't be fun, this is going to be a 4x realtime strategy game. NOT ELITE DANGEROUS.

    How close are the stars in stellaris or sins of a solar empire.

    This IS going to be a 4x realtime strategy game blended into 3D space. (FOR the first time) Ever. It may not be perfect out of the gate but i will add some options for people like yourself that complain about everything! (J/K) Thanks for the feedback.

    RARRREEEE.. feature creep here we come :)

    The galaxy also has to scaled down to fit within a "Galaxy Map" that can be used by the player for navigation and command and control of their empire.

    I don't think you have thought this through.. I have....
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  42. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    Ok i looked into it.

    The reason stars appear close together is because i am sitting at 2 million meters from the orgin at the start which is the "galactic core" and stars will appear closer together the closer your are to the galactic core or center of the galaxy.

    The test area I have setup is the closest star to the galactic core, the first star in the galaxy in fact which is why it appears as if i am extremely close to a bunch of stars and in fact am close to a bunch of stars that are on a close orbit to the galactic core.

    When you move farther out into the galaxy stars appear farther apart because they are farther apart.

    If you would like, in my next video ill move the test area and star system to a mid-point in the galaxy if you want to see what star distances look like at a mid-point position in the galaxy.

    Star systems are on orbits similiar to real stars in the real galaxy and therefore the farther you go from the galactic center the farther apart stars become.

    I am finishing my "Batching" based LOD system for star systems before i post the next video to demo it. That will be later tonight or tomorrow because it is rather complex and i need to test thoroughly. The system will also tie into the LOD system for planets that orbit stars once i add the procedural planets system to add planets and areas to star systems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
  43. Owen-Reynolds

    Owen-Reynolds

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    Going further, in most science fiction you're not seeing out of a window -- it's a computer generated graphical display. Even modern battleships work that way now (not like the movie Midway, where the admiral was up top for a commanding view). Even modern detection equipment is measuring non-visible frequencies, gamma rays, gravityshifts, estimating space dust and doing a ton of computation to mix it all.

    As far as psychedelic, I think the reference is the 1980s(?) Flash Gorden movie. That style seems to be coming back -- lots of purplish dust clouds, ion storms, pulsing dark matter -- space has a real texture.
     
  44. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

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    I thought it would be cool to have mutliple environmental modes. But in order to do that I have to build a templating engine that expands the environment modification systems further, which means more time.

    For now, I'm going with realism. I designed to where i can expand it and build the templating engine. Before i finish the procedural galaxy generation system i will make a decision on adding that.

    As a solo developer i have to keep my awareness on feature creep and try to get the game done, playable even if it does not have everything i want in it initially.

    That does not mean i can't plan for these additional systems to be added later and design my architecture accordingly.
     
  45. Owen-Reynolds

    Owen-Reynolds

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    Sometimes when people make a big claim about realism, they do a lot of extra research and work. The point here is not to bother with that. The way stars, comets ... actually look is nothing like the "realistic" art style people think of. That's from movies.

    I heard an astronaut explaining how shadows in space are hard-edged and pitch black (there's no sky to scatter incoming light into a non-point source, or ground-scatter). Real space shadows look really fake.
     
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  46. FirstTimeCreator

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    I never made a "big claim", my claim is more that it's an approximation of realism. The star colors for example match those of the colors within images from nasa of the actual galaxy. I am also using the milkyway skybox.

    There is nothing that "looks" like "real" space in a video game. So when you are referring to a video game you are talking about an approximation of realism.

    The galaxy scale is obviously not "realistic", for obvious reasons if you are a game developer you can probably imagine those reasons and why that is impractical.

    I am building a strategy conquest game not a simulation of the universe, with that said i want the player to "feel" like they are in a galaxy or "Galactic" size space.

    I will do whatever I can to enhance the immersion level. As time goes on i will likely add more details in the galaxy such as space dust and asteroid fields and all sorts of things.

    Some things may or may not be realistic. It may just look cool and that will be good enough for me ;)
     
  47. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Posts:
    1,250
    There is a big disconnect between actual reality and what people think is real. Especially people who live in cities and rarely get outside -- most gamers.

    But I don't like the idea of continuing with stupid tropes just because that's what people expect. Games -- especially more educationally focused games like OP is working on -- could teach players about reality. But, if you are going to go against common tropes, which players might believe are actually grounded in reality, I think you have to make a point to explain it clearly.

    I think OP get's this, but it's an interesting point.
     
    Ryiah likes this.
  48. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Posts:
    628
    My context is also in relation with other games that have a galaxy size space in 3D scaled or non-scaled.

    There are not very many that exist. Anyway yah I don't care if people think it's realistic, being fun is what will matter. The visuals help with immersion though. It does not have to be "realistic" as long as the player "Feels" like they are in a galaxy.

    The name of the game is Galactic Armada after all.

    I am also not a professional artist. I can make shaders using Amplify but I'm not a pro shader artist.

    I'm a programmer, systems designer, framework design. Programming is my field.

    I will however do the best i can with the artwork that is required, I only have myself to rely on so.. got to get'er done.
     
  49. N1warhead

    N1warhead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Posts:
    3,265
    Well one thing that may help in your desire to make this game is - remove the Green and purple stars if you want it realistic. There's no such thing as a green star, at least - for Human vision there isn't, - There's only (White, Yellow, Red, Orange, Blue, and Brown) stars.
     
  50. FirstTimeCreator

    FirstTimeCreator

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Posts:
    628
    I already have if you watched the last video:

    I used a nasa image of stars in the galaxy to get my color pallete for these stars. Currently there are 4 variations within a color spectrum of white-yellow, orange-white, blue-white, red-orange.

    The color of the stars are randomly selected with the color range that is randomly selected.