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question about selling animations - legal or illegal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by r2dj, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. r2dj

    r2dj

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    hello! i'm an animator and was thinking of animating free model packs found in the asset store (animals and creatures specifically) animate them and export just the skeleton animation which you can import if you download the free packs.

    basically i'm just adding animations to all the free downloadable packs.

    my question is, will i be able to sell them with no issues? is it legal? again just the animation of the skeleton, no models or textures.

    hope this makes sense and which ones would you love to see animated?

    thanks in advance!
     
  2. methos5k

    methos5k

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    Sounds legal to me, but to be fair I do not know :) lol.
    I mean, if you can download the assets, and you're not re-selling those.. Your animations are separate.
    Who knows.
    I'd say it's a zero chance of illegal if those assets say you're free to use them (their licence) and near zero otherwise, imo.
     
  3. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I believe you are not allowed to do that.

    By taking original model skeleton you'll be most likely creating derived work, and asset store eula is pretty clear on that part:

    https://unity3d.com/legal/as_terms
    What you coudl do is making generic humanoid animation on your own skeleton and selling it separately without tying it to somebody else's asset.

    OR you could contact author of the asset and either request their permission OR offer collaboration.
     
    theANMATOR2b and verybinary like this.
  4. r2dj

    r2dj

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    thanks for that, makes things clear. collab and permission would be my second option, i'll see if i can get in touch with them.
     
  5. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    Don't do anything suspect because somebody here told you so. Read the rules. Talk to a lawyer.
     
    hippocoder likes this.
  6. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I would be glad if someone made my asset more attractive. :D
     
  7. SnowInChina

    SnowInChina

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    besides the legal side;

    i don't like this practice.
    i would say there are at least some people who would be happy if someone would add animations to their products, because your target audience most likely can't do animations themselfs, so any character/creature pack without animations would be useless to them and won't get bought

    so why not try to collab with someone ?
     
  8. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape Moderator

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    Contact the original model authors if you are interested in selling animated versions (because that is what they are). You can't claim to be selling just the anims because of the unique rig each creature would logically use. So like others have said, a collaboration is generally the best bet.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  9. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Btw, it's pretty stupid that there isn't a standard human rig. We had to contract a guy to rerig our characters to the motion cap anims we bought
     
  10. hippocoder

    hippocoder

    Digital Ape Moderator

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    There is a standard human rig. When you use humanoid and you bring in others that don't match, that also use humanoid, it will allow you to match them, providing you can import them.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  11. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Its not always possible to match them only using the animation avatar setup process though. It would have been better if Unity forced a more standard approuch for human rigs so every human animation worked on every human model..

    sorry for ot
     
    frosted likes this.
  12. r2dj

    r2dj

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    thanks everyone! i actually went ahead and made a test, turns out i can't export just the animated skeleton and have it work correctly in unity (the animation plays but the model is broken)...which is weird. maya is capable of doing this by importing/exporting .fbx files, that or the rig i tried is just skinned differently, probably requires blendshapes etc. i'll try it with other models later...

    for now with the test i did, the model has to be included with the skeleton, which is not a fair or legal thing to do on my part. thanks again everyone!
     
    wccrawford likes this.
  13. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    It is a good thing.

    Different games have different requriements, and there's no standard that will fit them all.

    Having said that, unity has "humanoid" animations, that allows animations to be more or less easily transferred between two humanoid characters. Even if their skeletons are different.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  14. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    We couldnt fix our character to fit the Kubold Movement Pro anims. I could make it a bit better by adjusting the skeleteton. But not perfect, had to hire a artist that corrected the rig.. A human is a human, If had done the system I would have made it so all human models work with all human anims..
     
  15. BIGTIMEMASTER

    BIGTIMEMASTER

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    I won't say that that is impossible... but


    If you had done the system... but you didn't do the system did you? Because you aren't a professional and have no idea what is involved. Sheesh.
     
  16. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    I helped somebody who used kubold animations, there were issues with them.

    Basically the idea that "a human is a human" is incorrect. There are different body types and those affect animation movement. Unity animation retargeting is decent enough, but push it too far, and you'll experience all kind of weirdness. That's why there is no universal rig.
     
  17. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Yes, but for asset flips like my own game it would have been better if there was a default system setup for males and females so that all asset store models worked with all asset store anims.

    Yepp there is issues with Kubold anims. There are alot of noise still in them that they didnt clean up. And some stupid movement making it harder to make good use of them for exampel for AI aiming. Here is an example from our game

     
  18. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    Can't be done better than what mecanim can do. Skeleton setup depends on needs of the project, and if your models are stylyzed, default skeleton won't work.

    The best idea would be to look for a character pack that comes with animation.
     
  19. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    I'm not saying mecanim can be better i say unity asset store should force some default setups on the artists.
     
  20. r2dj

    r2dj

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    cool looking game man! nice stuff.
     
  21. neginfinity

    neginfinity

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    (-_-) That's a great way to chase artists off asset store.

    I believe asset store characters and animations are usually setup to utilize mecanim humanoid animations, when possible, and are usually compatible with mecnaim humanoids. So use that instead.
     
    theANMATOR2b likes this.
  22. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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  23. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Thanks bud!
     
  24. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Was going to say - unless humanoid it will be useless for other developers, because retargeting isn't available for non-humanoid rigs. ;) Also this is kind of slippery slope area - a animation rig in essence is a asset, just as a texture, a logo, a character model etc etc.
    Unity developed mecanim to work with the already established mocap standard humanoid rig. This was a great decision for developers who can't animate. And the retargeting is pretty dang robust imo.
    The issue here is some rigs have different hierarchies, so this this is not possible for all characters. Mecanim does have a standard and that standard requires the hierarchy to conform to the humanoid rig hierarchy, which inherited the requirements from already established motion capture standards.
    No a default setup is limiting, but humanoid (not mecanim) does have a default setup.
    I agree asset store should implore asset providers to describe in detail, accurately if the setup is for humanoid or not. This should be the only forced requirement, not a forced default setup for all mecanim compatible rigs.
    "Unity Mecanim compatible skeleton. WeaponHolder bone for weapon attachment."
    This is a tough one - but this sentence is ambiguous. Prior to purchase it is a good idea to ask the author if the character was humanoid compatible. Mecanim compatible really isn't anything. That just means it is not a legacy animation setup. This is especially true for a hero character.
    Asking the author to provide a rig/bones render/hierarchy to see if the bones are properly structured, but one can't tell if the hips are parented to the lower spine or the root from just an image.
     
    BIGTIMEMASTER likes this.
  25. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    So, it sounds like a enforced standard would be good no?
     
  26. theANMATOR2b

    theANMATOR2b

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    Enforced standard to detail in the description if the animation rig conforms to humanoid or not.
    All humanoid rigs are standardized.
    All other animations/rigs are generic, like the character you bought.
     
    Ryiah likes this.
  27. AndersMalmgren

    AndersMalmgren

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    Yeah a flag or whatnot also if you have two a character and a animation that is not compatible in the checkout basket warn
     
    theANMATOR2b and Teila like this.
  28. Teila

    Teila

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    If you do not see humanoid in the description, send an email to the creator of the asset. If you get no response, assume it is legacy and do not buy it if you want standard. We use humanoid models and have had little to no trouble with humanoid animations, such as Kubold's, working on these models.

    Also, remember...you can create a new rig for any model you buy. If you have an Adobe account, I believe Mixamo still has their autorig function working. Might want to check. I have made models work with humanoid animations using this and it is pretty easy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018