Purely 'Top-Down' RPGs?

Hey, guys. I originally was going to put this in Graphics, but felt it was more of a game design issue. Does anyone have any examples of pure top down RPGs? When I search 'top-down RPG' on google images or youtube, 99% of the images and videos are not top-down, but rather isometric. I am looking for RPGs that look more like this, this, and this image. And, less like this game or this one. I am designing a game that would rely heavily on melee units and swordfights, but will also be purely top-down, and it's kind of hard to visualize how I could make this particular artstyle interesting or stand out.Thank you for your help!

 

You mean like Secret of Mana, early Chrono trigger / Final fantasy? 1,2,3,4,5 and 6..

Sure there's a fair few of them.

 

Technically speaking, the first counter example is a sort of oblique projection that represents both top down and side view.

Top down doesn't really make much sense in most RPG's, if for no other reason than it flattens characters *ba dum tish*. Characters are typically meant to have have actual depth and character; an actual personality that can be shown visually. Being top down basically limits associations with them because they aren't likely to visually stand out, and if you can't make associations, players are much less likely to care about characters.

 

Spent a lot of hours on 'Into the eagles nest' as a kid.

 

I think you can do it and definitely the challenge with it is exactly what @RockoDyne pointed out. You will need to work on making the differences in the characters stand out.

For graphics themselves I'd recommend taking a look at vertical scrolling shmups and top down view racing games just to get your head into graphics from that point of view.

Here are some examples:






Your characters will end up basically being ovals, rectangles with their arms and legs shooting out as they move around. For pure top down view you need to rely on colors and shading basically lighting and shadows to show the height of objects. I think by focusing on the animations and FX of the characters you can make it interesting and make each character have a unique style. Don't just make simple sword thrusts and swings. Instead make it some dramatic thrust and fancy swing attack probably with some kind of attack arc sweeping through the air behind the blade. Do that kind of thing for each character to make their style different. Although, I always think the most important thing is to focus on the game play and players will soon forget about what the graphics look like anyway once they get into the groove.

 

Yep I was thinking of that game too from my C64 days. Was going to grab a screenshot and noticed you had posted about it already. lol Basically a spin on Gauntlet.

Anyway, here is a video of it running on an Amiga:

 

I'm currently working on a Cyberpunk rpg akin to Dreamweb, with a top-down look. the advantage is that it's easier to create art assets. There are also examples of top-down games that are not purely 2d, such as the first two GTA games and Mage Slayer, Project Paradise and Take No Prisoners, all from the mid-90s.

 

Here is a screenshot from the game I'm working on, the character sprite is by me, everything else is ripped from Dreamweb and should be considered placeholder graphics so the style I'm aiming for is apparent. Note how even though there are no truly realistic light sources or raytraced shadows, the tiles do have depth to them because the pixel art simulates a light coming from the top left.

 

As someone who practices kendo, I can give you some practical insight.

First, top-down swordfighting is going to be very difficult to meaningfully convey. That's because while swordfighting is very much three-dimensional in nature, the 'Y' and 'Z' dimensions (height and interval between fighters, respectively) are more important. While changing the 'X' has meaning, most matches are decided based on your ability to attack the right place (men, kote, do, or helmet, glove, chestplate), and maintain the correct intervals (tou maai, issoku itto no ma, chikai maai/chika-ma, or large distance, "one step, one cut", small distance). The takeaway you should take without rushing out to join a kendo club or something, is that top-down swordfighting removes focus from a key part of good sword technique - the y-axis. You can suggest other types of attacks using the x-axis, but it will be counter-intuitive to the player at all times.

Second, whether it's an action RPG like it sounds like you're suggesting, or a 'regular' JRPG with various maps that get explored, a top-down view removes the face from the equation. That's troublesome, because facial expressions are a key and useful bit of body language - a few pixels that suggest a face can be the difference between an expression of anger, happiness, or whatever. The takeaway should be, removing the face removes a way for the player to perceive the character in the game world.

I don't think a top-down action RPG is a terrible idea (it would certainly be easier to sprite), but it's just not expressive enough to work in a 'usual' setup. That said, breaking from a 'usual' setup isn't always a bad idea. Just be aware of what you're giving up if you decide to go this route.

 

Honestly I think there's a lot you can do with top-down if you have the right artist. Melee combat can be abstracted enough to still be fun. There's still fun to be had in Legend of Zelda's topdown (ish) shield blocking stab you to death style. Stuff like that. Making it all artistically cohesive is the hard part. Be it top down or slightly isometric, I am always a fan of the cool things you can do with controls and the fact you wont have "camera angle" issues nearly (if ever) as often as isometric styles.

 

The thing with those is that they've got shapes which are interesting from above. A ship and a car have distinct silhouettes with a lot of variation when viewed from above. Typically a person doesn't - we're generally tall thin things with most of the variation in our shape seen from side on.

So my first thought would be, if you're absolutely dedicated to pure top-down, most of your variation is going to have to come from the top of the head, the top of the shoulders, and the top of the forearms. Not much else is going to get seen very often or very much (and even the forearms assume you're in some fighting stance most of the time).

As interesting as this stuff is, I think it only really matters if this is a sword fighting sim. Even isometric RPGs, which often involve sword fights, would have issues with the kind of detail you're discussing if they attempted to convey it.

 

The perspective of most isometric RPGs like Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, or Disgaea makes even a crappy animation seem powerful and like the character who is doing it look like they mean it. While it's not impossible with a top down perspective, I think it would be extremely hard, since the character could more or less only launch horizontal attacks.

Now, I don't know much about other swordsmanship style, like SCA, or saber/epee/foil; it might well be that one of those styles has more of an emphasis on horizontal attacks. In kendo, everything at least starts vertical. So, it's possible that my perspective is less helpful than I originally thought, which happens from time to time. The core of why I think anything I said matters, is that without the vertical aspect of swordfighting, I think it will be significantly harder than it "should" be to sell the animation.

 

Depends on how complex your combat is. Top down is a clear restriction on visual feedback but games like Hotline Miami are still pretty fun with Melee.

It's not terrible though, you can still do lots of different melee stuff that is easy to represent in purely vertical orthographic view directions. It boils down to how well you design the system and draw the graphics. If you're totally lost and can't seem to get anything done than its probably not something you want to pursue, but maybe you could breakthrough with something cool if you sat down and worked it out for a while.

You could learn a lot from Nidhogg as well. Same principle, and a robust system.

 

Animated character portraits could solve this problem. Even static portraits can deliver ala Baldur's Gate, though not top down, the characters were so dang small! which could have resulted in a detached experience in game. The character portraits weren't the only item to deliver association with the characters, but I think it helped.

 

This game has true top down.

http://armorgames.com/play/15317/ranger-defense.

Most combat in a rpg is incredibly simplistic that true top down representation is no problem as far the body description it just good texturing and colour variation. High angle which most "top down" make trees and probably walls you worst enemy as you can't see your character- Arcuz 1&2. I really like see some top-down sprites for my game.

 

Hey there, does anyone knows the name of the racing game on the rightmost screenshot? I'm loved it when I was a kid, was hoping that I could download an emulator of it. Thanks!

 

That game is Moto Roader for the Turbografx-16.

 

As was mentioned oblique is a possible alternative to "pure" top down, if your goal is simply to avoid isometric. Lots of successful games have been made using oblique views without the hassle of true isometric.

 

You want to check out the original shadowrun for sure. There's a game that was held together on the strength of its narrative.

 

Not sure what you mean, but both the SNES and Sega Genesis Shadowrun games didn't feature true top-down perspectives.

 

Yeah I mis-remembered. Still good lessons to apply when doing an RPG.