Please, Help us understand the rejection of our package!

Hello Unity Community,

We , in HungerSnake, need your help.

What's wrong with this package to you guys?

We did a low poly city (3 months while doing our videogame) and send it to the Asset Store, waited 10 days and just a message saying it was declined, no feedback, no reason why, just "quality standards". I writed many emails without no one answering back, i believe they are in a lot of submissions.

We readed the guidelines many times.
We translated all assets to english, being native spanish speakers.
We maded prefabs for every single object in the map.
We Maded texture atlas for every texture and of course, objects.
Polycount was running as expected without culling.
We cannot bake lightmaps because of the Unity Bug many know about, so,
ligths are realtime.

What do you think went wrong with this level we did?

It tooked us a long time to develop....and we need some feedback to improve it , at least, for putting this in a videogame, if we survive this big mistake believing all will go fine in the first uploading just for putting all we have on it.

Please help us understand what's bad here, design? polycount? style? textures? We don't really have a clue right now how we failed so hard when we putted all the love and effort to share what we think it's a usefull map for low to mid-poly 3D games to be used in doing many genres.

Maybe, there's no one out there needing this kind of map because we are so old-school we needed to finish our game and that's it, not to try to sell assets and help others starting out in the middle. Maybe, our work is useless for the Unity Staff and we can take it, but, we really will want to understand from an artistic point of view, what went terrible wrong with our map.

Because, we where doing more assets that now, we dont have the strenght to finish, just the final goal of finishing a videogame we where doing before trying to share our work.

We priced the asset, u$s30, there are 232 prefabs, but maybe, the price was wrong.

I personally, dont have a clue right now, and my team, well, they seem very sad with this.

Please, enlighten the dark feelings we have rigth now if you can think of anything wrong with our design. The coding, that i did, was working just fine when i uploaded, so, i dont have a clue.

We still have hope anyway that things will get better, but maybe we need to focus in our videogame and stop trying to sell in the Asset Store because it's so populated or people dont need any new 3D City Map.

What do you think?

Diego

 

IF you are asking for feedback I hope you can accept what people have to say :

The texturing is poor quality. Extremely poor.

hth

 

Very poor modeling perhaps done in under two -three hours tops. And just echoing the above texturing really poorly done, so the lighting won't help it. Hope that helps!

 

Ok, thanks. Maybe it was wrong to use photos as a base, maybe we needed to paint all the buildings and houses by hand?

 

Hi, well, to be honest, the modeling taked more than three hours, maybe we have not enough experience in the quality expected, i cannot think something else right now. Thanks for the feedback.

 

How are you uv unwrapping the models, they don't look uv unwrapped properly at all?

 

Oh, and yes, i listen very closely to your comment, well, we are

Iamthwee: If they don't look unwrapped properly, then, they are not. I didn't do the unwrap, i just coded and taked the pictures for the texture Atlas (14 Atlas in total), but now, textures are extremely poor. Maybe the mistake this was designed first for mobile and we excited for some PC users. For mobile, this environment, is bad? really that bad? Modeling, well, it's low-poly, maybe we needed to put doors and windows, but, the mistake, again, is that this a City for Mobile.

Maybe we needed to do a proper culling, put more lower textures with compression for Android and IOS, bake lighting (Unity Bug stop us for doing so), and put the package just for mobile games.

 

I see some textures had a problem with the Normal Maps perhaps and they seem broken. But, i don't see the poor modeling, but this feedback helps me understand that this package needed to be for mobile games only requiring a low cpu and memory budget.

 

Anyway, we are doom for today for selling assets.
At least, this will help us to get better with our game (or have an epic fail again).

 

My advice, concentrate on a good model with good textures. You bake outside of unity which is what I recommend, especially as baking inside of unity is plagued with issues. Even a simple model with great textures can vastly improve the city.

If you are using blender it is possible to bake great textures from cycles. As an example see my thread.

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?358525-Perfect-studio-setup-test/page4

 

Mobile is not actually very far behind typical desktops these days. Maybe you don't quite target the equivalent of a 6GB 980 Ti, but there's no validity to the "mobile = low quality" idea any more. Sorry, but no, this isn't acceptable for mobile.

--Eric

 

Haha, don't let a declined asset take the wind from your sails - I too have had assets rejected, and you could fix this up with some work.

My two cents is, maybe try and create/modify a higher resolution set of textures, at least twice that detail - and then on the source models make sure to doublecheck all your edges/uv wrapping setup cuz it seems to be stretched improperly in areas, and I figure it would be approved under those conditions. So yeah basically what they said with a pat on the back

Possibly consider breaking up the buildings and streets into a set of tile-able objects instead of one big set-in-stone model you know, allowing devs to customize a city using your buildings.

 

here is a image of another mobile friendly city asset from the Asset store, I just grabbed something quickly so Im not saying its the best of them all, its just a comparison example : This asset is $15 and come with 135 prefabs , buildings, props etc



Besides resolution , your scale inconsistency and resource selection is also way off. eg.. Some of your building roof tops have rectangular stones that look more like floor or wall surfaces and the scale as if viewed from 1 meter away.

 

Hiya, well, it's a relief at least to receive some feedback, i think we where lost in space. Thank you, we will think about this in deep. Technology goes fast.

 

Hiya, well, i will send this to the guys that did the hard work, i was coding a videogame while doing this, we want to try the stores, but, we learned the hard way, we wheren't near what the community needs. And yes, i see that too now, it was a big environment for us in this style and we rushed. Thank you.

 

Hello MD_Reptile: The problem is, textures are 14 Atlas at 2048x2048 each, 4096x4096 for textures on Mobile? Then, mobile has growed real strong and i was in the past. About the stretched, yes, i see it too, i will tell the modeler to fix it. Thank you so much, we where burned out.

 

I would also recommend using a free 3d object resource such as...

http://archive3d.net/

You can find relevant models to compliment your cityscape, cgtextures is another great texture resouce.

http://www.textures.com/

 

Maybe we can fix this things and sell the Asset at a lower price and with a redesign entirely. It's a shame we are out of fuel to keep to do the redesign, because we have a videogame for Android to launch, at least, this helps me seeing the problems before launching a videogame with 8 maps in extremely poor conditions, i almost finished the code for the game and the 3D part is suffering, art is real hard bussiness. I hope to reach to show some progress some.

Have all of you a good day!

 

Maybe it's better to have textures like this and not in the middle (like using photographs and effects)...

https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/17477

It's an style problem im seeing, besides the technical 3D UV/Modeling then, that needs to be fixed soon.

Because i saw this Asset when i started to dream about sharing a CIty for other users like this one did, but, we did so many things wrong i need to rethink all about art for mobile.

Maybe this pack isn't selling nothing today because this graphics are not for mobile and mobile users wants PC style....

 

I mean, maybe we need to go this direction, and take the City to a funny or comic level.

This isnt working for mobile today then?

 

The asset store has been around for a few years. At this point there are a bunch of people out there who have made 50 city models and and are working on their 51st so really have the process down.

Think of it this way: is your asset good enough to be put in a textbook as an example of an implementation of "X"? If it's not then it probably won't be approved for the store.

 

Its not a style problem , its a quality problem.

 

I understand your point here, but maybe we hadn't time to show the city working on mobile with a culling system, what we wanted to do is a big map for mobile, so, of course some graphics needed to be sacrified in the middle. But maybe im lost now about the phone to test this, because im using an S3 as an middle and maybe this is low phone now.

Im doing a racing game with a desert theme and it didnt work with more graphics than this in a S3 no matter what if i wanted to have +30FPS. So, im lost again about graphics vs. performance. We didnt achieve both because we didnt show an example of this city working on an S3 or an Ipad, besides the long list of technical problems and bad textures or modeling that i need to digest, but, that's life and i can take it. I will need to recover of course to make some progress now.

 

The reality is : this is not something your artists are going to fix over night , or even over the next few weeks or maybe never. Instead of selling your asset , you are more at the level of where you should probably be buying an asset. I mean you can spend $15 as I showed in previous post and have a great looking city for your game ?

 

I believe it to be rejected because 6 years ago, mobile games often looked better than this. It is not a relevant asset for today. A modern quality mobile title on a typical mid-range phone will look pretty similar to an xbox 360 game.

 

For performance concerns many assets have LOD variations available ..

 

Ok, so, the list is this now for my broken team:

1) Get better at style. (i feel that cartoon style has won forever).
2) Get better at modeling. The wrong thing was to think that a building for mobile in a big area will be just a box, i suppose.
3) Get better at unwraping.
4) Performance doesn't matter because mobile phones now are like desktop. But if i build this, without compression, to an S3, it works at 18FPS, without culling so, maybe isn't working for mobile without proper optimizations and we did the big mistake to do a package in some Limbo for technology. At least, this will help to rethink many areas of other maps we have.

Being an Indie is the hardest thing to in the world, that's for sure.

 

All right, yes, but, im seeing games and reviews from games with graphics from 6 years ago, maybe, there's still some tiny niche for us and that's the only hope, but it will not work for the Asset Store, that's for sure. Thank you for your feedback, i looked at so many posts from you in the last years. I will meditate about this, but this will delay our game launch a lot and im out of budget, i will need to get some other work then to not crash, maybe coding, because the 3D part is like being in Mordor now.

 

Yes, but if you want to do a racing game with this, you will put LODs? Maybe the mistake is that this only works for a racing game and nothing more and try to sell the map at least helped me to understand more about the overall style and not being rejected when i finish my game.

Thank you so much for the ideas and feedback to everyone, at least, i will recover with things to meditate.

Good luck to all!

 

Yes, scale is wrong in many places i fear. Thank you.

 

I hate to be negative, I think it's great that you are interested in this, you just don't have the capability to do great graphics though. That's OK - most people don't. Perhaps find something else you can do to make money in this field?

Customers want things that look fantastic, even if it's unsuitable.

 

Looking back on your original thread, I was probably being a bit harsh on the modelling, it isn't actually that bad, it's the texturing and mapping that sells it short. The models aren't something you'd immediately be blown away by, sure, and I still stand by it shouldn't take more than a few hours to model, not texture or unwrap, just model, and I'm a hobbyist blender modeler.

If you work on a solid texture mapping and perhaps baking outside of unity you have every chance of it working. My concern is, if your artists have come up with that as their best attempt you have a problem with your artists. Just my opinion.

 

Yeah - even mobile will want shiny surfaces, cube maps, lightmaps etc - these technologies have been available to mobile since the first iPhone in 2008.

 

About this Pack you showed, it will work on an S3 in a big environment like the one we did? The pack we did is better to optimice and use as a base, but, we

Yes, maybe i will drive a taxi.

 

Well, i cannot ask them to do more because they work in there spare time, half-time and im the one doing the coding and using Unity, but im showing this thread to help them get better. Thank you again friend.

 

Send me a private mail, I'd be interested in helping if you require a simple city scape with textures.

 

Can you show me your work? I dont have the skill now, but that doesn't mean i can't have it next week, hippcoder. Thanks for being so honest about my S***ty and unusable map for mobile from 6 years ago, hey! But who knows, maybe someone in the street wants to play it! I mean, all right, you want cubemaps and lightmaps, well, yes, but i cannot put that and model doors and a subway to work at +30FPS with Normal Maps, at least, i buy myself an S800, but my budget is now 2 months from now, and the only hope is to finish a videogame with graphics from 6 years ago, maybe it gets voted as the worst game ever and who knows, publicity can be there!

Come on, you are enjoying this i feel, go do something else? haha.

It's common sense, man. The City is BIG, not just a 2 blocks area. Its big. Maybe what i neeeded to do is to model 2 blocks with all the detailing in the world (i fear i have some habilities left). I have to open the door and get out the computer now.

 

So, i cannot do a game with good gameplay and simple graphics, that's all for now, no one can.
The asset isn't that seductor, understood. But maybe the gameplay of the game we where doing isn't that bad, when we finish it, someday, if the wind doesn't fail.

Maybe, gameplay will save the day.

 

Well again let me say dont be afraid to purchase some assets.

Also I mentioned LOD .. all games that require rendering large environments use it ( and mip-mapping of coarse )

I am a capable CG artist and programmer and I have bought assets for art and for code before .. no shame in that at all. I know hippo is an extremely capable developer and he buys things from the store as well.

The fact is you dont have to do everything by yourself these days .. thats the point of the asset store. It's ok to try do things by yourself, as long as you have a realistic idea of your capabilities and the outcome of your work in relation to others.

Best wishes for the rest of your games development. You have shown a good attitude in general towards feedback but also a reluctance to come to terms with what has been said. Understandable because its not easy to accept failure for any man , take some time as you mentioned and put everything into perspective and then make some decisions about how to move forward with your development.

cheers

 

Ok, thank you, but im afraid i need to code a game and, of course i will love to work with other 3D modelers, so, who knows, maybe i can get a videogame out and start making something with Ads, at least, is the honorable thing i can do right now. Im coding since middle 2011. If some client shows up and i need some modeling, of course i will write you back, to tell the truth about is not being harsh, is the truth, the envirnoment has many flaws and to somes, this cannot be fixed, the artists here have no hope and well, i hope this thread serves for something in the world.

 

...but maybe they can learn more fast. And of course, yes, i buyed assets, maybe we need to show some more maps in other direction we have. This map is coursed i feel. Thank you everyone, and excuse my mood, it's really hard to fail like this to every man, yes. But that's life and have to keep moving. Thank you so much.

 

Well there are tricks the artist can use to make better looking textures - for one, don't have the entire side facing of a building as one big square UV across the whole thing (I'm not sure they did this, just as an example), and instead have several square sections tiled across it, from a texture that doesn't exceed 2048x2048, so instead of the left side image, do like the right side image:



Hope that makes sense! I guess what I mean is repeat a single texture many times across a face (perhaps split it horizontally as well) to allow more detail without a larger texture! Plus having that all as one object must mean your using a single texture for ALL those buildings and roads and whatnot - which cost you precious space where it counts, up close on any individual part of it. So those objects gotta be broken into their own models for sure!

 

Well I've picked up unity a month ago, so I hope to be fully proficient with it in a few more weeks. However, if you need models and artwork, definitely look to use others for help, as others have said no shame in networking and using what resources you have, you can't be expert in everything, well... you can but, rare few are

 

Well, that makes sense! Thank you so much for this tip, i will send them to the guys if they survived tomorrow. Jeesh. What a long and hard day. Maybe this is more productive to others. Your help is really much appreciated, MD_Reptile!

 

Iamthwee:
Yes, if my race game can reach the public (maybe they review saying this game looks from 100 years ago, but the gameplay is fun, at least, i will have that hope before driving the taxi, i worked from so many things that i really wanted this to happen, but, not today, maybe next month), for sure i will need maps, from you or from the Asset Store, to fail here is better than to fail in the entire world. Just writte if you need help coding or get stuck, i will rest some days and try to keep coding the game im doing for facebook, android and ios, maybe one of them accept the old graphics, while the 3D modelers digests this, maybe they run away scared, who knows. Im now thinking about 3D modeling, art, life and why the PHP script for the score isn't working while i failed so hard at directing a City Map for mobile. But , i wanted this thread to be open to the general community, because maybe someone interested get some what not to do from this.

As you can see attached, im using an Asset from the Store, the characters are bad mapped because of my fault of trying to code, direct and do 3D at the same time (i was alone doing this when i started) and now, the modelers are trying to learn from the pros to finish the job, it will not be easy, that's sure.

This isn't a big game, you know, just a little one to race in 8 maps, so, nothing special about it, except that i feel is fun to ride on mobile.

 

Im showing this to 3D side of things, so, feedback is gold for us now.

 

I'm not an artist by any means. But when I saw it, it reminded me of a Microsoft game (I think it was) from the 90's, where you would destroy parts of a city. I think it was a rts. But the textures back then, early directx games...where VERY pixellated and pretty bleak.

I'd encourage you to examine current games, with cities, and see how good (or bad) they look. I realize its not necessarily reasonable to compete with GTA and Fallout, but you can definitely improve on your textures.
Good luck!

 

Here is an old title. It will work fine on any mobile from 2010 onward, which is 6 years ago: https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/physynth/id469924626?mt=8

It's fully 3D but tilting the device reveals complex shader interaction with light, shadows under buttons etc. Runs fine at 60fps on old hardware. I've done a lot of games. On iPad2, I have 200,000 triangles, realtime shadows, unlimited lights, distortion and IBL based complex shaders at over 60fps. Quite possibly, you are very mistaken on how mobile hardware works (I am not, as I code my own shaders and understand engines and gpu programming quite well).

Poly and texture detail rarely is a bottleneck on mobile. Shader complexity and draw calls are.

No, I'm not enjoying this. I feel when people can't see the issue when doing business, it's harmful to their lives. So I try to help. I'm not successful it seems if you think I am attacking, which I am not, I'm just being realistic. I've been developing for over 30 years, so I have had time to build up a skill set. I think it is obvious to me why your city wasn't accepted, and I only spoke the truth from what I could see personally. It's not an attack. Best of luck!

Enclosed is a video from UE4 which is the Zen Garden demo. This is what current mobiles can do (Unity can do this too, but as always it depends on how high quality all the art is):

 

Hey DBar - you should consider incorporating weekly art reviews into your dev cycle. And make these reviews meaningful for an hour or so. Compare the state of the art and the production quality to any game development art freely found all around. You can find partially created environments, characters, and things at all stages of development, same as games all over the place. They call them wip threads, just like on this forum. Google is only a click away to show all art types in all stages of development.
If the art doesn't at least match the minimum quality of the art you can search for on google - then it's not good enough to attempt to sell in a mobile game - let alone a quality asset on the asset store.
Also - it's really kinda foolish to believe beginner artists can sell beginner quality art on the asset store - all that is needed is a quick reality check to see the art above isn't very good.

Sorry I kinda got off on a negative stretch there - really review the art on a weekly basis - and if it doesn't hold up to the very minimum quality you can find - it needs to be reworked and/or purchase some assets in the store that could suit your needs pretty easily.

As for driving a taxi - a lot of hobby developers work full time on non-game development stuff, and then come home and work for several hours each night working on there own personal game development creations. It's just reality.

 

Thank you for your support, im sure i'll take a look at your work and the video. Impressive background by the way.